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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:02 AM   #3441
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Bill Clinton is still president of the USA?

Wow, what year is this? That's one hella-long term in office! He must have done something right! Good on ya, Bill!
If only people knew what Chester A. Arthur was up to, that would really bunch your undies.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:04 AM   #3442
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I really want to know how Giuliani got this far as a lawyer.

He said that Kushner, Manafort and Jr. took a meeting took the meeting to get dirt on Hilary and didn't know the person they were meeting was Russian. They only knew her name. Her name you ask?

Natalia Veselnitskya.

Yeah right Rudy.

I swear these guys are like the fella Lucy Lui shot in the movie Chicago. The guy after being discovered in bed with two women says 'I'm alone.' Lucy replies 'ALONE?! You're in bed with two women!' He answers back "C'mon doll, you gonna believe your eyes or what I tell you? "
And come on Jr. email already showed they knew it was the russians.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:04 AM   #3443
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Back when all of this started, I saw a political cartoon that summed up what Trump and his supporters seem to think will happen.

Trump: "Good morning."
Mueller: "No it isn't!! Ha!! You're lying!!"
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:06 AM   #3444
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
EXACTLY! This telling us the opposite of what we know and what the evidence proves is mind boggling and insulting.
But that is exactly what got Trump elected. So they know their voters.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:07 AM   #3445
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Trump says about Russia probe: ‘I could run it if I want’


http://www.internationalskeptics.com...b07f12a993.jpg

Could he, though? He can hire/fire people all day long, but I'm not sure he could run an investigation himself, even ignoring the conflicts of interest (which he does so well).
Hey he would run it like one of his businesses.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:12 AM   #3446
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So, I imagine Trump groupies won't give a rip about these tax cheats underreporting their taxable incomes by millions of dollars.
Of course, that makes them smart.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:17 AM   #3447
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Holy crap, wait until you hear of the blue dress, Monica Lewinski, the cigar and the Oval Office.
Other than pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of Republicans no one cares about who had sex with who. The issue here is the illegal payments that were made to cover it up.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:32 AM   #3448
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
But to address TBD's question, I have to ask, why wouldn't you use Cohen as a lawyer?

As far as I can see, Cohen performed admirably as a lawyer.

Remember, the job of a lawyer is to work on behalf of the client. Michael Cohen was willing to violate election laws in accordance with his client's wishes, and tried to do it in a way that made it look as benign as possible.

For some reason, when Trumpets are talking about their problems with Cohen, they are not referring to "He did not refuse to do illegal things on behalf of his client."

Yeah, Cohen has turned around and stabbed in the back, but then again, what else can he do? Another responsibility he has as a lawyer is to work for the truth, and so that's what he's doing.

Trump told him to violate the law, and so that's what he did. And now, when asked about it, he's telling the prosecutor that is what he did.

The problem is not the lawyer. He seems to be doing what he can to serve his client. The problem is with the client.
Actually, as I and numerous others have explained repeatedly, Cohen could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws, hell all laws period. That Cohen arguably failed to do so is on Cohen, not his client. That Cohen rolled over on a non-existent campaign financing violation to save years off his and his wife's very real tax violations doesn't change that one tiny bit.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:33 AM   #3449
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hey he would run it like one of his businesses.
Like running it into the ground?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:34 AM   #3450
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually, as I and numerous others have explained repeatedly, Cohen could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws, hell all laws period. That Cohen arguably failed to do so is on Cohen, not his client. That Cohen rolled over on a non-existent campaign financing violation to save years off his and his wife's very real tax violations doesn't change that one tiny bit.
He should have changed the oil in the bus, too, since he was down there anyway.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:37 AM   #3451
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
He should have changed the oil in the bus, too, since he was down there anyway.
Yeah, Cohen is trying to throw his client under the bus for cohen's **** ups. Good point
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:38 AM   #3452
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And come on Jr. email already showed they knew it was the russians.
EXACTLY! And if that isnt enough and it is, her thick Russian accent and her name should have been a tipoff. The lies are so ******* brazen it's staggering. 'No, those two women going down on me aren't real sweetie. Are we out of condoms?'
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:44 AM   #3453
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually, as I and numerous others have explained repeatedly, Cohen could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws, hell all laws period. That Cohen arguably failed to do so is on Cohen, not his client. That Cohen rolled over on a non-existent campaign financing violation to save years off his and his wife's very real tax violations doesn't change that one tiny bit.
How could he have structured it to comply?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:48 AM   #3454
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yeah, Cohen is trying to throw his client under the bus for cohen's **** ups. Good point
Waaah...poor Donald. He hires the best people.

Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Trump paid Cohen from his trust account. A no no. Cohen isn't responsible for that.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:49 AM   #3455
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually, as I and numerous others have explained repeatedly, Cohen could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws, hell all laws period. That Cohen arguably failed to do so is on Cohen, not his client. That Cohen rolled over on a non-existent campaign financing violation to save years off his and his wife's very real tax violations doesn't change that one tiny bit.
the ONE SINGLE THING he needed to do in order to comply was to DECLARE the payments to the Campaign Finance Committee.
Trump didn't want him to do that, didn't want the Committee to know, which made it necessary to use illegal means.
There is absolutely no scenario that doesn't make Trump guilty.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:51 AM   #3456
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Actually, as I and numerous others have explained repeatedly, Cohen . That Cohen arguably failed to do so is on Cohen, not his client. That Cohen rolled over on a non-existent campaign financing violation to save years off his and his wife's very real tax violations doesn't change that one tiny bit.
I am confused. You say he could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws, hell all laws period implying that he didn't do this.

You then say "Cohen rolled over on a non-existent campaign financing violation"

Did what was done fully comply with all campaign funding laws or was there a violation?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:53 AM   #3457
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How could he have structured it to comply?
That is not a straightforward question, because under the FEC guidance from the Edwards case, it did comply.

But I would have suggested the payment come from personal assets and probably gotten another opinion from an election lawyer.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:55 AM   #3458
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
I am confused. You say he could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws, hell all laws period implying that he didn't do this.

You then say "Cohen rolled over on a non-existent campaign financing violation"

Did what was done fully comply with all campaign funding laws or was there a violation?
Yes it did, there was no violation, and Cohen rolled over on it to avoid more serious punishment for him and his wife on the tax claims.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:55 AM   #3459
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That is not a straightforward question, because under the FEC guidance from the Edwards case, it did comply.

But I would have suggested the payment come from personal assets and probably gotten another opinion from an election lawyer.
Why isn't it still an illegal campaign contribution if it comes from personal assets? The argument is it is a campaign contribution.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:59 AM   #3460
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yes it did, there was no violation, and Cohen rolled over on it to avoid more serious punishment for him and his wife on the tax claims.
If what he did was legal, the criticism of his legal skills is unjustified and not a reason not to employ him.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 07:59 AM   #3461
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why isn't it still an illegal campaign contribution if it comes from personal assets? The argument is it is a campaign contribution.
What is 'it" in that sentence?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:01 AM   #3462
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
If what he did was legal, the criticism of his legal skills is unjustified and not a reason not to employ him.


missing the whole "and Cohen rolled over on it to avoid more serious punishment for him and his wife on the tax claims" are we?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:01 AM   #3463
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What is 'it" in that sentence?
Anything to make the sex stories go away.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:10 AM   #3464
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Is this Schrodinger's campaign finance law or something?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:11 AM   #3465
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Hang on, is the argument now not that he didn't do it, but, schoolyard rules, he did it, but because he was tattled on, it shouldn't count?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:12 AM   #3466
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Anything to make the sex stories go away.
Ooookkkkkaaaayyyyyy....

Then, for example, Trump's payment to a paramour from his personal assets is a campaign contribution by your reckoning?

The FEC said otherwise under similar circumstances in the Edwards case
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:15 AM   #3467
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The argument is: "If the facts were different, it wouldn't have been a crime, therefore Trump is innocent".
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:16 AM   #3468
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post


missing the whole "and Cohen rolled over on it to avoid more serious punishment for him and his wife on the tax claims" are we?
No I am clarifying a comment of yours that seems to criticize him for not structuring the deal in a legal way and also to criticize him for folding on a legal deal. One criticism has to be unfounded. It appears that you are rolling back on the first.
When you said "He could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws". He, according to you, did in fact do that.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:16 AM   #3469
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Hang on, is the argument now not that he didn't do it, but, schoolyard rules, he did it, but because he was tattled on, it shouldn't count?
no
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:17 AM   #3470
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
so, you are saying that you would endorse Mr. Cohen's services as an attorney then?

/lolz
If only there was some clue as to what sort of fallacy is at play with this post . . .
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:18 AM   #3471
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
no
Phew.

It doesn't matter then why Cohen's rolling over at all. That's a relief.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:19 AM   #3472
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Hang on, is the argument now not that he didn't do it, but, schoolyard rules, he did it, but because he was tattled on, it shouldn't count?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:23 AM   #3473
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ooookkkkkaaaayyyyyy....

Then, for example, Trump's payment to a paramour from his personal assets is a campaign contribution by your reckoning?

The FEC said otherwise under similar circumstances in the Edwards case
The FEC does not have jurisdiction in criminal matters. Furthermore, Edwards aides testified that they did not break any laws, nor did anyone attempt to influence them to do so. The outcome of that trial (1 acquittal and 2 mistrials) indicates the government didn't meet its burden.

I imagine having a key aide testifying that "yes, laws were broken and yes, they were broken at the direction of the candidate" might have a different outcome.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:25 AM   #3474
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Is this Schrodinger's campaign finance law or something?
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:33 AM   #3475
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
No I am clarifying a comment of yours that seems to criticize him for not structuring the deal in a legal way and also to criticize him for folding on a legal deal. One criticism has to be unfounded. It appears that you are rolling back on the first.
When you said "He could have structured the deal to fully comply with all campaign financing laws". He, according to you, did in fact do that.
It is complicated, let me walk you through it.

1. The deal as structured complied with FEC guidance
2. the deal could have and should have been structured better to avoid even the appearance of impropriety
3. Cohen abandoned the arguments that make step one true in order to avoid more serious punishments on his tax claims.
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:46 AM   #3476
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Old 23rd August 2018, 08:47 AM   #3477
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