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Old 6th February 2021, 09:56 PM   #361
Gord_in_Toronto
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Well it does sound somewhat dubious.
OK. So this time I Googled.

Seems like what he most likely said was “common sense is nothing more than a deposit of prejudices laid down in the mind before you reach eighteen.”
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Old 8th February 2021, 12:57 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Thanks for the input dann. I am stunned by this excerpt:

"Lockdowns can lower the prevalence of disease, but in the end, they do not affect the number of sick or dead people,” said Dr. Yoav Yehezkelli, member of the Common Sense Model and the PECC who helped design Israel’s programs for dealing with an epidemic.

This is an example of common sense?

It has nothing to do with common sense, obviously. He is one of the lockdown opponents and seems to believe in the idea that the pandemic kills only the old and frail people who were just about to die anyway. There's a name for the idea, dry firewood or something: The pandemic will rage until it has run out of dry wood. Then the the most vulnerable are dead and the rest are immune. It's one of the ideas that has been popular in Sweden's pandemic strategy, 'herd immunity' (which should be called the herd infection strategy).

It is absurd to believe in this idea when Israel is on the verge of achieving actual herd immunity by means of vaccinations. He should also know that SARS-CoV-2 isn't about to 'run out of firewood' since the immunity it provides after infection doesn't seem to last very long.

However, he is probably inspired more by Sweden's Tegnell than by the Torah.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd February 2021, 02:15 AM   #363
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Nio inom Svenska kyrkan i Umeå sjuka i covid-19 (VK.se, Feb. 21-22, 2021)
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Outbreak in Umeå Church with 9 infected after physical meeting. They are puzzled because the room was large and they kept distance. Followed recommendations. How many more stories we need to hear? 10 months into pandemic and people are still misinformed.
Alexandr Talyzin on Twitter (Feb. 21, 2021)
To the vicar and eight other church employees, it may seem as if God works in mysterious way, but there is no mystery here at all.
The recommendations in Sweden still don't include face masks.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 22nd February 2021, 12:30 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Nio inom Svenska kyrkan i Umeå sjuka i covid-19 (VK.se, Feb. 21-22, 2021)


To the vicar and eight other church employees, it may seem as if God works in mysterious way, but there is no mystery here at all.
The recommendations in Sweden still don't include face masks.

The stubbornness of the religious to accept they are in danger is troublesome. "I am washed in the blood of Jesus," was the response of one challenged after attending a service I heard. Not too many churchgoers in Sweden however, thankfully.

When I speak to relations of mine in Sweden they are quite supportive of the line taken by the authorities. I also note that World statistics show 20 plus countries with worse figures of infection and deaths than Sweden. Many of those countries have taken a more aggressive approach of control.
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Old 27th February 2021, 02:48 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post

When I speak to relations of mine in Sweden they are quite supportive of the line taken by the authorities. I also note that World statistics show 20 plus countries with worse figures of infection and deaths than Sweden. Many of those countries have taken a more aggressive approach of control.
Why is it that it Orthodox Covidism seems to have never really caught on in Sweden to the extent it has in much of the rest of the world?

What is different about the Swedes?
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Old 28th March 2021, 07:44 AM   #366
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Pope, on Palm Sunday, says devil taking advantage of pandemic (Reuters, March 28, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 28th March 2021, 07:50 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
That devil, eh!? Smart little bugger! Got it all over the god that created the virus in the first place and then had no idea what to do next.
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Old 28th March 2021, 08:06 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
The stubbornness of the religious to accept they are in danger is troublesome. "I am washed in the blood of Jesus," was the response of one challenged after attending a service I heard. Not too many churchgoers in Sweden however, thankfully.
No, Sweden is pretty irreligious - much like Denmark and Norway. Society without God is based on studies and interviews in Denmark and Sweden.

Quote:
When I speak to relations of mine in Sweden they are quite supportive of the line taken by the authorities. I also note that World statistics show 20 plus countries with worse figures of infection and deaths than Sweden. Many of those countries have taken a more aggressive approach of control.

The confidence in the Swedish strategy peaked in September before the second wave hit the country. Swedes had been promised that it was all behind them, there would be no second wave because Sweden now had herd immunity, so Swedes could lean back and enjoy the sight of their struggling neighbors without the fabled herd immunity. We know what happened instead: The second wave hit all countries, Sweden had no herd immunity and was completely unprepared for the second wave as they had been for the first wave. Sweden's death toll is several times higher than Denmark's, Finland's, Iceland's and Norway's - combined!

The people responsible for Sweden's pandemic response have spent most of the time making up excuses for their disastrous strategy, for instance that Sweden is not an island, has a high population density (only a fifth of Denmark's, actually, and only slightly larger than Finland's and Norway's), and the media have supported them by printing their lies and reporting about the apparent disastrous situation in other countries, even when those countries are much the same or not even worse off than Sweden. If you hear about Australia or New Zealand, you can bet that it's because there's been another outbreak. That they have been Covid-19 free for most of the pandemic is uninteresting. Many Swedes probably don't know - and many Swedes don't want to know. That part of the strategy has worked: In September the confidence in the strategy was 62 percent, now it's 47 percent. It's down, but not nearly as much as could be expected - all things considered.
Poll reproduced on Twitter

Only people who read the foreign press are actually aware how bad the situation is in Sweden. At this point, the pandemic situation in Sweden is worse than in all other Western European countries. You have to go to Eastern Europe to find numbers as bad or worse as those in Sweden. Criticizing Sweden's pandemic strategy is considered to be a crime against Sweden's image, which the media and the rest of the population is supposed to back up - and for the most part do.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 28th March 2021 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 28th March 2021, 08:14 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
That devil, eh!? Smart little bugger! Got it all over the god that created the virus in the first place and then had no idea what to do next.

I'm surprised the devil didn't create the virus. Just taking advantage of it is a little lame. Any troll factory can do that.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 28th March 2021, 08:28 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I'm surprised the devil didn't create the virus. Just taking advantage of it is a little lame. Any troll factory can do that.
I understood that creation is the exclusive domain of gods. They are just particularly poor at having their creations work as expected. COVID -19 seems to be something a devil could really sink his teeth into - death, pestilence, much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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Old 28th March 2021, 11:34 AM   #371
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No wonder he needs all those advocates.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 21st April 2021, 12:13 AM   #372
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I disagree with the SCOTUS decision to grant religious orginizations exemptions from covid gathering rules. If these groups want to help people, they should follow the guidelines of decency and social distance.
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Old 21st April 2021, 02:26 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I understood that creation is the exclusive domain of gods. They are just particularly poor at having their creations work as expected. COVID -19 seems to be something a devil could really sink his teeth into - death, pestilence, much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
IIRC according to St Augustine, one of the most respected church fathers, the devil most certainly can create stuff, just not permanently. Creating something that actually lasts for ever (or long enough to be as good as for ever from a human perspective) is God-only. Temporary stuff, the devil can do as well.

Given how quickly covid mutated into completely different versions, hmm, maybe ol' Lucifer could have pulled that stunt
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Old 21st April 2021, 10:52 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by mattobrien85 View Post
I disagree with the SCOTUS decision to grant religious orginizations exemptions from covid gathering rules. If these groups want to help people, they should follow the guidelines of decency and social distance.
And to be fair, many have. In my area, most large, well-established churches have adopted some form of virtual worship, or have limited indoor in-person gatherings to comport with local health department restrictions.

As I note above, the initial issue in New York was that religions weren't classified as businesses for the purpose of applying restrictions. They fell under a catch-all provision that included such things as theaters and music halls -- all places where people were required to be in close quarters in large numbers. The Supreme Court disagreed and required the same rules to apply to churches as applied to indoor retail establishments. That's as it may be.

But then the Court seems to have gone further and ruled in other cases that churches are simply exempt from even common-sense restrictions on indoor assembly. What's worse, Justice Roberts seems to have put this in the vanguard of a whole recent squad of perceived attacks on religious liberty, including many landmark decisions such as Obergefell v. Hodges. This has many fearing that the newly constituted Court wants to walk back as many of the hard-won civil liberties as possible, on the basis that religious "freedom" seems to mean the right to speak and behave however one wants, as long as a religious conviction motivates it, and others' individual fundamental rights be damned.

Where religious freedom starts to conflate with far-right political views, we have a problem. The same people who belong to religions that seem most likely to throw their weight around in court also seem to espouse far-right ideologies that say the pandemic is a hoax, that masks don't work, and that social distancing shouldn't be required. That intersection between the worst of political beliefs and the worst of religious practice is what scares me the most.
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Old 21st April 2021, 02:06 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
And to be fair, many have. In my area, most large, well-established churches have adopted some form of virtual worship, or have limited indoor in-person gatherings to comport with local health department restrictions.

Virtual worship of a virtual god. Has a nice ring to it.
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Old 27th April 2021, 01:01 AM   #376
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Keilar calls out evangelical pastors spreading Covid-19 misinformation, CNN, April 26, 2021 (9 min.)
With clips of many of the usual suspects. Some of them think that vaccines are "the mark of the Beast":

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

But positive exceptions from the moronic attitude of many evangelicals are also included.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 27th April 2021, 03:46 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Keilar calls out evangelical pastors spreading Covid-19 misinformation, CNN, April 26, 2021 (9 min.)
With clips of many of the usual suspects. Some of them think that vaccines are "the mark of the Beast":

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

But positive exceptions from the moronic attitude of many evangelicals are also included.

The ignorance of those evangelical morons is beyond belief. At anyone can watch the performance of Kenneth Copeland, and be inspired by it, is stunning to me.

I guess when Christians die from Covid the answer will just be: "Well their faith wasn't strong enough."
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Old 28th April 2021, 11:02 AM   #378
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Yeah, I can't express well enough how much that sort of rhetoric sticks in my craw.

I understand churches fighting for their rights to assemble, and to challenge the risk classifications imposed by various authorities. I don't approve of their desire to be reckless, but not all of them who fought for their First Amendment rights over emergency declarations and classifications desired to be entirely reckless. And those were legitimate justiciable matters to bring before a court. No matter how much I may disagree with the decisions handed down, I don't think the religious leaders were out of place or necessarily ill-intentioned to raise the question.

But I grow so weary of knee-jerk fear-mongering. No, the "mark of the beast" is not just whatever bugbear you come up with out of the headlines. It's sheer manipulation on the part of these "religious" leaders. And for what purpose? Certainly not to safeguard their flocks from actual, substantive danger. No, it's simply to provide yet another point on which the flock must bow to the so-very-human leaders of the cult.
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Old 28th April 2021, 04:38 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
But I grow so weary of knee-jerk fear-mongering. No, the "mark of the beast" is not just whatever bugbear you come up with out of the headlines. It's sheer manipulation on the part of these "religious" leaders. And for what purpose? Certainly not to safeguard their flocks from actual, substantive danger. No, it's simply to provide yet another point on which the flock must bow to the so-very-human leaders of the cult.
I have in the past been very earnestly lectured on the reality of the Mark of the Beast. Not saying that it's everyone, but people in evangelical and Pentecostal churches in particular treat it very seriously.
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Old 29th April 2021, 08:46 AM   #380
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I see it as theists proving Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest.
It doesn't seem to go as well as they hoped.


Yes, I was forced to go to my son's first cannibalism mass. It was so important somehow we all could drop the precautions to a level of a good show.

My son didn't really care nor understand any importance himself.
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Old 29th April 2021, 10:03 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I have in the past been very earnestly lectured on the reality of the Mark of the Beast. Not saying that it's everyone, but people in evangelical and Pentecostal churches in particular treat it very seriously.
Absolutely, which is why it's so easy to weaponize apocalyptic passages to mean this or that, depending on whimsical needs.

It baffles me that so many evangelical types gravitate to the least sure-footed book in the New Testament. The Council of Trent wasn't very enthusiastic about it. And when you read the other early Christian apocalypses (the ones that didn't make the cut) you can see why: they're weird. The Apocalypse of John is the only one that isn't overtly gnostic Christian fan fiction, but it still belongs in a genre of pseudo-canon that, in my opinion, shouldn't be taken very seriously at all.

But I guess if your goal is to keep your flock perpetually scared of something, what better than dragons and beasts and horsemen. And what better than a bunch of cryptic prose that can be stretched to cover everything from Social Security numbers to microchipping your pet. The farther your "number of the Beast" gets from the 1st century context of the book, the less likely it is to be the mark of the beast that was intended. Originally it was Nero, then it was Ronald Reagan, today it's the coronavirus vaccine, and tomorrow it will be something else. It's always something new, and it's always preached with earnest confidence -- until the next thing. That's what I find most disingenuous about it.
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Old 29th April 2021, 10:31 AM   #382
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I wonder if anyone has made a comprehensive list of historical persons who were thought (by some) to be The Beast or the Antichrist? I seem to remember from my historical studies on the Napoleonic era that he was said to be it. The Pope during the thirty years war, too, IIRC. And I would guess Hitler. Maybe such a list would be just too long!

I tried to google for it, but there were too many entries for Iron Maiden and diverse religious organizations.
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Old 29th April 2021, 11:01 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
And when you read the other early Christian apocalypses (the ones that didn't make the cut) you can see why: they're weird.
Have you read Revelation? It too is weird.

Reader, if you haven't had the joy of it previously, I heartily recommend the wonder that is Revelation via The Brick Bible.
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Old 30th April 2021, 01:17 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Have you read Revelation? It too is weird.
I have, and I thoroughly agree. Not only weird, but commonly misunderstood by most who read it and decide to believe it. But the other apocalypses are much weirder, if you can imagine such a thing.
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Old 30th April 2021, 02:45 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I have, and I thoroughly agree. Not only weird, but commonly misunderstood by most who read it and decide to believe it. But the other apocalypses are much weirder, if you can imagine such a thing.

Must be a rare gift. To be able to understand that which is impossible to comprehend.
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Old 30th April 2021, 07:34 PM   #386
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Depends on what level of comprehension we're talking about. Most people who supposedly swear by that book, either haven't read it at all, or fail comprehension at the level of being able to parse simple English syntax and lexicon. I'm not talking at the level of "they don't understand the 1st century metaphors", but really failing to understand who did what to whom in the plain text. I'm talking at an equivalent comprehension failure level to, say, someone claiming they've read War And Peace and failed to notice that it's about Napoleon's campaign in Russia, not the other way around
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Old 4th May 2021, 10:50 PM   #387
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Quote:
According to Kaiser Family Foundation polling, 13 percent of Americans say they definitely won’t get a COVID-19 vaccine, but that includes 18 percent of people ages 30 to 49, and a whopping 29 percent of Republicans. Hesitancy is particularly high among people who live in rural areas and white evangelicals—for whom increased church attendance correlates with increased hesitancy, according to a survey from the Public Religion Research Institute.
t’s Not Vaccine Hesitancy. It’s COVID-19 Denialism. (TheAtlantic, April 27, 2021)

So vaccine hesitancy correlates with risk behaviour.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th May 2021, 05:04 AM   #388
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A church in Sweden has found a way to bend the rules:
Quote:
I dagsläget får max åtta personer delta vid kyrkans gudstjänster enligt coronarestriktionerna, oavsett hur stor utrymmet är.
Men när kyrkoherden Johannes Lindh fick veta att idrottsklubbarna, som har samma regelverk, fyller på med fler människor i restaurangerna så hörde han av sig till länsstyrelsen och frågade om han kunde göra samma sak.
Här kan fler än åtta gå på gudstjänst – om de köper kaffe (SVT.se, May 23, 2021)
Currently, a maximum of eight people are allowed to attend church services according to the corona restrictions, regardless of the size of the space.
But when the pastor Johannes Lindh found out that the sports clubs, which have the same regulations, get more people into their restaurants, he contacted the county administrative board and asked if he could do the same thing.
Here more than eight people can attend church services - if they buy coffee
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th May 2021, 01:20 AM   #389
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Quote:
Pastor Greg Locke has grown his congregation over the last year by preaching that Covid-19 is a "fake pandemic" and the vaccine is a scam.
Pastor's anti-vaccine stance divides Tennessee family (CNN, May 29, 2021)

Some of the relatives of deceased Covid-19 victims aren't happy about it.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th May 2021, 03:25 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Some of the relatives of deceased Covid-19 victims aren't happy about it.
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I wonder about the motives of Pastor Greg Locke and some other religious leaders. Are they just using the pandemic to grow their congregations perhaps? Against all logic the faithful don't seem to be swayed in their conviction when someone like Locke dies. I imagine they will just say God needed him up in Heaven or suchlike crap.
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Old 8th June 2021, 02:34 AM   #391
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Here's another one. Even at this point, they just keep coming. If you are an antivaxxer, it can go on forever.
And I guess that this one to some extent answers your question about the explanations they come up with, Thor 2:

Quote:
A right-wing Florida pastor was hospitalized with Covid-19, weeks after saying vaccination efforts were part of a "mass death campaign."

The pastor, Rick Wiles, wrote Tuesday on TruNews.com, where he propagates homophobic, racist and other hateful conspiracy theories, that he had Covid-19-related pneumonia and difficulty breathing. He said that he was being released from the hospital later that day but that his wife was "still very fatigued."

He added that his daughter-in-law was in the hospital with extreme dehydration and vomiting and that at least four other family members, including his grandson, had developed Covid-19-related symptoms. At least three TruNews team members were also recovering from the virus, he wrote.

"This was a full-frontal hit from Hell on your TruNews family," Wiles wrote. "Because Jesus Christ lives in us, we shall live too. Your prayers needed for the above family members and team.
Right-wing pastor gets Covid after saying vaccines were part of 'mass death campaign' (NBC News, June 2, 20201)

Preacher Who Said Vaccines Will Kill "Stupid People" Hospitalized With COVID-19 (iflscience, June 3, 2021)
Stupid people being antivaxxers.

Anti-vax Florida pastor, who said COVID-19 was God's punishment, hospitalized with COVID-19 (Orlando Weekly, June 3, 2021)
So in his and his family's case, it was Satan's punishment, not God's, I assume.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th June 2021, 09:24 PM   #392
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COVID doesn't care about your religion.
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Old 9th June 2021, 06:03 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Have you read Revelation? It too is weird.

Reader, if you haven't had the joy of it previously, I heartily recommend the wonder that is Revelation via The Brick Bible.
I am frustrated. The "animated stills" are visually appealing, but it makes it impossible to proceed at my own pace. I don't suppose they have a version with just the final image of every panel with all the text on?
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Old 9th June 2021, 08:56 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
I am frustrated. The "animated stills" are visually appealing, but it makes it impossible to proceed at my own pace. I don't suppose they have a version with just the final image of every panel with all the text on?
Huh.

The last time I looked deeply at it, it wasn't animated at all. That's a new thing on me. I agree that it makes it more frustrating. And the FAQ section doesn't work, either!

You can get a print copy of the whole thing, but I notice that it's out of stock, and only ships to the USA. That's pretty disappointing.
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Old 10th June 2021, 06:33 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
COVID doesn't care about your religion.
It doesn't. But it loves anti-masking anti-vaxxers.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th June 2021, 08:26 AM   #396
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From a Center for Inquiry newsletter, June 25, 2021:

Quote:
Massachusetts is poised to take a critical step toward protecting school children from preventable diseases. But those who think that private religious beliefs are more important than public health are standing in the way of keeping future pandemics out of our schools—even though no major religion prohibits vaccinations.

A dangerous legal loophole exists in Massachusetts, enabling parents to opt out of school vaccination requirements simply if they claim vaccines conflict with their religious beliefs. Removing this loophole will save lives.

We need your help to support House Bill 2411. This bill keeps in place the existing medically based exemption but eliminates the religious beliefs exemption and closes the loophole.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 6th July 2021, 12:19 AM   #397
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More Rick Wiles (see post 391):
Anti-Vaccine Pastor Learns The Hard Way About Science (Rebel HQ, June 1, 2021)

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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 6th July 2021, 05:36 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
This has many fearing that the newly constituted Court wants to walk back as many of the hard-won civil liberties as possible, on the basis that religious "freedom" seems to mean the right to speak and behave however one wants, as long as a religious conviction motivates it, and others' individual fundamental rights be damned.
This is why I keep asking about why a religious motivation should bear any more weight than just "because I really want to". If the court is going to lean this way we're going to get a lot of businesses officially becoming "Christian" to get around regulations, and I am not reassured by promises that the court will acknowledge and block such requests that come from insincere intentions, even if they might be expected to throw out a FSM case by an individual.
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Old 9th July 2021, 08:41 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by gnome View Post
This is why I keep asking about why a religious motivation should bear any more weight than just "because I really want to". If the court is going to lean this way we're going to get a lot of businesses officially becoming "Christian" to get around regulations, and I am not reassured by promises that the court will acknowledge and block such requests that come from insincere intentions, even if they might be expected to throw out a FSM case by an individual.
An astute observation. As far as American law is concerned, the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a parody of religion, not a religion per se. Consequently its adherents do not enjoy that freedom of religion under the law. But the audacity of the court in proposing to separate sincere religion from religion outlines exactly what the Church of the FSM was created to illustrate: the rights of vast numbers of Americans who have nothing to do with religion and want nothing further to do with religion are hobbled by the courts' dabbling in divinity.
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Old 27th July 2021, 05:20 AM   #400
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This is the bizarre state India is in now. Essentially, the head of the Indian Medical Association had, in one of those wierd television discussions with the current star godman Baba Ramdev, made some mention of linking allopathy, christianity and the west. It was a pretty dumb rambling discussion with Ramdev where the godman was making quack claims about "ayurvedic" treatments and trying to push a quack tonic developed by his company.
As is often the case a local "activist" decided to file a suit against the IMA head stating that he had offended Hindu sentiments, and it was immediately challenged by the head of the IMA and a petition to fdissmiss the case was filed. However, the court has decided to rule in favour of the plaintiff, claiming that the IMA head should not have used his official position to promote religion.
Delhi High Court Dismisses IMA President's Appeal Against Trial Court's Order Asking Him Not To Use IMA Platform To Propagate ReligionThis is the bizarre state India is in now. Essentially, the head of the Indian Medical Association had, in one of those wierd television discussions with the current star godman Baba Ramdev, made some mention of linking allopathy, christianity and the west. It was a pretty dumb rambling discussion with Ramdev where the godman was making quack claims about "ayurvedic" treatments and trying to push a quack tonic developed by his company.
As is often the case a local "activist" decided to file a suit against the IMA head stating that he had offended Hindu sentiments, and it was immediately challenged by the head of the IMA and a petition to fdissmiss the case was filed. However, the court has decided to rule in favour of the plaintiff, claiming that the IMA head should not have used his official position to promote religion.
Delhi High Court Dismisses IMA President's Appeal Against Trial Court's Order Asking Him Not To Use IMA Platform To Propagate Religion
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