IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Coronavirus , vaccination

View Poll Results: Have you been vaccinated?
Yes, I am fully vaccinated. 158 85.41%
I have received 1 vaccination shot 17 9.19%
No, I intend to but haven't got around to it. 3 1.62%
No, There are personal medical reasons that I should not receive the vaccine 1 0.54%
No, COVID is a hoax. The vaccine is part of some Communist plot. 4 2.16%
No, God will protect me. You cannot trust science. 2 1.08%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
Old 31st July 2021, 01:02 PM   #321
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 90,524
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hey, anti-vaxxers, migrants, who cares? We are all one big, happy family. Right?
Actually, yeah. Red states are currently the biggest problem.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 01:34 PM   #322
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hey, anti-vaxxers, migrants, who cares? We are all one big, happy family. Right?
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Actually, yeah. Red states are currently the biggest problem.

The unvaccinated, which consists of about half the population, are the ones fueling this pandemic right now. Without them, cases and the death toll would not be rising. But some don't want to acknowledge that and would rather misdirect to migrants. It's always so much easier for many to blame "others" than to take responsibility upon themselves.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 01:51 PM   #323
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 90,524
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Hey, anti-vaxxers, migrants, who cares? We are all one big, happy family. Right?
This is priceless, The Daily Show with clips of Fox talking heads fear mongering over migrants with COVID. Looks like it's where you got your talking point from.

The problem is however, the clips are juxtaposed with the same talking heads telling viewers COVID is a minor issue.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 01:55 PM   #324
Warp12
Graduate Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post

The unvaccinated, which consists of about half the population, are the ones fueling this pandemic right now. Without them, cases and the death toll would not be rising. But some don't want to acknowledge that and would rather misdirect to migrants. It's always so much easier for many to blame "others" than to take responsibility upon themselves.
I don't think anyone should be directing the primary blame at migrants (illegal or otherwise). However, ignoring or denying the mathematics of transmission is idiotic...whether it is anti-vaxxer idiots, or migrants involved.
__________________
"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." - Henry David Thoreau
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 02:43 PM   #325
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Originally Posted by COLONEL View Post
What good are all these vaccinations? Until they stop the illegals from crossing our southern border we will always be at risk of it spreading
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think anyone should be directing the primary blame at migrants (illegal or otherwise). However, ignoring or denying the mathematics of transmission is idiotic...whether it is anti-vaxxer idiots, or migrants involved.
Immigrants are a drop in the bucket when it comes to the unvaccinated numbers. About 48-49% of Americans are fully vaccinated. That leaves almost 167,000,000 unvaccinated. Both legal and illegal immigrants have full access to the vaccine. Immigration status is not asked. Some form of ID may be asked for (another argument for letting even illegal immigrants get a driver's license) but it's not mandatory to have one in order to get the vaccine. But this is a barrier to many illegal immigrants who fear ICE will seize and deport them anyway. THESE people have a true reason "not to trust the government".

We have more vaccines than are being used and a lot is being shipped to other countries. Every immigrant being kept at the southern border in US custody should receive a vaccination.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 03:11 PM   #326
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 9,818
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think anyone should be directing the primary blame at migrants (illegal or otherwise). However, ignoring or denying the mathematics of transmission is idiotic...whether it is anti-vaxxer idiots, or migrants involved.
The mathematics of transmission overwhelmingly show that anti-vax, anti-mask Americans are responsible for the vast majority of infections in your country.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 03:26 PM   #327
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 29,323
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Immigrants are a drop in the bucket when it comes to the unvaccinated numbers. About 48-49% of Americans are fully vaccinated. That leaves almost 167,000,000 unvaccinated. Both legal and illegal immigrants have full access to the vaccine. Immigration status is not asked. Some form of ID may be asked for (another argument for letting even illegal immigrants get a driver's license) but it's not mandatory to have one in order to get the vaccine. But this is a barrier to many illegal immigrants who fear ICE will seize and deport them anyway. THESE people have a true reason "not to trust the government".

We have more vaccines than are being used and a lot is being shipped to other countries. Every immigrant being kept at the southern border in US custody should receive a vaccination.
They ask for ID in some places, but it is NOT required. No one is supposed to be denied.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 03:32 PM   #328
Warp12
Graduate Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
The mathematics of transmission overwhelmingly show that anti-vax, anti-mask Americans are responsible for the vast majority of infections in your country.
Am I denying that? No.

I always hate avoiding a debate. But, here we are.
__________________
"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." - Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by Warp12; 31st July 2021 at 03:34 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 03:34 PM   #329
Warp12
Graduate Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Immigrants are a drop in the bucket when it comes to the unvaccinated numbers.
Does that also make them immune to the math, when it comes to transmission? No.

But, I agree, small area on the radar.
__________________
"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." - Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by Warp12; 31st July 2021 at 03:35 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 03:36 PM   #330
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 9,818
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Am I denying that? No.

I always hate avoiding a debate. But, here we are.
Hard to tell.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 04:21 PM   #331
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They ask for ID in some places, but it is NOT required. No one is supposed to be denied.
Yep. That's why wrote "Some form of ID may be asked for (another argument for letting even illegal immigrants get a driver's license) but it's not mandatory to have one in order to get the vaccine. But this is a barrier to many illegal immigrants who fear ICE will seize and deport them anyway."
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 04:23 PM   #332
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Does that also make them immune to the math, when it comes to transmission? No.

But, I agree, small area on the radar.
Did I say it did? It's as if you have to be contrary even when agreeing.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 04:33 PM   #333
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 22,415
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, what is the plan for this? How do you see it being implemented, in the US?
Why should I care? It isn't my messed up country.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
If you are found to be in non-compliance with a vaccine mandate, what happens? Are you strapped down and injected with it, against your will, and then served with fines and/or imprisonment? Will we need to create an armed "Vaccine Enforcement Task Force", trained to locate and capture such people? Sounds a little dystopian, to me.
Nope. The unvaccinated will simply be barred from restaurants, cinemas, shops and what not. Their choice, their consequences.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I'm just wondering how you picture this playing out moving forward, with other vaccines and/or mandates that the government might make.
I don't. It is not an issue in my country. Apparently, we have fewer anti-vax idiots here.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 05:01 PM   #334
Warp12
Graduate Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Does that also make them immune to the math, when it comes to transmission? No.

But, I agree, small area on the radar.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Did I say it did? It's as if you have to be contrary even when agreeing.
Ironic, and pointless, it would seem.
__________________
"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." - Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by Warp12; 31st July 2021 at 05:04 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 05:01 PM   #335
Warp12
Graduate Poster
 
Warp12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Why should I care? It isn't my messed up country.
Now we're on to something.
__________________
"It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see." - Henry David Thoreau

Last edited by Warp12; 31st July 2021 at 05:07 PM.
Warp12 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 05:46 PM   #336
The Traveler
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 153
So far all I see are the talking points of the press but lets look a little deeper;

It has become quite obvious that there is a manipulation going on with this covid vaccine . Where there is manipulation you can be sure there is going to be a lot more evil taking place. That's like a fundamental law of nature.

Now we can all agree that a vaccine is supposed to bring about an immunity to a specific disease. If it does not then it isn't a very good vaccine and if it does not protect at all then you have to question if it actually is a vaccine at all or if it is really something else that has been disguised as a vaccine meant to achieve some other purpose !

Now what do we see happening on the ground ?

Every body must get the vaccine, moral obligation and needs to be mandated by law for the common good. The reason being that those who do not get the vaccine can still infect those that do get the vaccine. DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE THE CONTRADICTION HERE.? It should be obvious that the vaccine is not actually expected to give immunity to covid so the obvious question is, what exactly is this vaccine supposed to achieve. What is the reason for it and why the panic to inject the entire population with it ?

When the polio vaccine came out it protected the recipient because it was an effective vaccine. There was no mandate by law to take it because every one knew that if you did not take it you could be infected by polio. So all took the vaccine and now the disease has all but gone extinct. That is how a true vaccine actually works !

Do I actually need to explain this further.
The Traveler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 05:54 PM   #337
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,153
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
Do I actually need to explain this further.
No, but you're going to, aren't you?

And your post belongs in the CT sub-forum.
__________________
“One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

Dr. Brytney Cobia

Last edited by Resume; 31st July 2021 at 05:56 PM.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 06:01 PM   #338
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
So far all I see are the talking points of the press but lets look a little deeper;

It has become quite obvious that there is a manipulation going on with this covid vaccine . Where there is manipulation you can be sure there is going to be a lot more evil taking place. That's like a fundamental law of nature.

Now we can all agree that a vaccine is supposed to bring about an immunity to a specific disease. If it does not then it isn't a very good vaccine and if it does not protect at all then you have to question if it actually is a vaccine at all or if it is really something else that has been disguised as a vaccine meant to achieve some other purpose !

Now what do we see happening on the ground ?

Every body must get the vaccine, moral obligation and needs to be mandated by law for the common good. The reason being that those who do not get the vaccine can still infect those that do get the vaccine. DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE THE CONTRADICTION HERE.? It should be obvious that the vaccine is not actually expected to give immunity to covid so the obvious question is, what exactly is this vaccine supposed to achieve. What is the reason for it and why the panic to inject the entire population with it ?

When the polio vaccine came out it protected the recipient because it was an effective vaccine. There was no mandate by law to take it because every one knew that if you did not take it you could be infected by polio. So all took the vaccine and now the disease has all but gone extinct. That is how a true vaccine actually works !

Do I actually need to explain this further.
No, because your explanation is not based on scientific facts. It's just more conspiracy theory. All the epidemiologist around the world are conspiring to what? Magnetize us? Put tracking devices in us?

You obviously have little understanding of how mutating viruses and vaccines work. As the epidemiologists...you know, those doctors who have spend years becoming specialists in understanding epidemics...say, "the science hasn't changed; the virus has." But the vaccine, developed for the original strain, does give a lot of protection from either getting the new deadlier and more easily transmissible Delta variant (i.e. mutated virus) or from getting a serious or deadly case. When 99% of those dying from Covid, including the Delta variant, are unvaccinated, what is your explanation? Is it the child devouring, child sex trafficking Democrat Cabal?

You don't need to explain further: you need to stop reading conspiracy crap on the internet and listening to idiots on right wing media like Tucker Carlson and talk to a DOCTOR. You just might save your life or that of someone you love.

First red flag warning you're talking to a conspiracy theorist: when they say "look a little deeper".

Last edited by Stacyhs; 31st July 2021 at 06:02 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 06:05 PM   #339
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,816
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Why are you dodging my point?
Because trolls em masse decided that was all they were going to do.
__________________
"When enough people make false promises, words stop meaning anything. Then there are no more answers, only better and better lies." - Jon Snow

"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." - Valery Legasov
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 06:15 PM   #340
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 29,323
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
So far all I see are the talking points of the press but lets look a little deeper;

It has become quite obvious that there is a manipulation going on with this covid vaccine . Where there is manipulation you can be sure there is going to be a lot more evil taking place. That's like a fundamental law of nature.

Now we can all agree that a vaccine is supposed to bring about an immunity to a specific disease. If it does not then it isn't a very good vaccine and if it does not protect at all then you have to question if it actually is a vaccine at all or if it is really something else that has been disguised as a vaccine meant to achieve some other purpose !

Now what do we see happening on the ground ?

Every body must get the vaccine, moral obligation and needs to be mandated by law for the common good. The reason being that those who do not get the vaccine can still infect those that do get the vaccine. DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE THE CONTRADICTION HERE.? It should be obvious that the vaccine is not actually expected to give immunity to covid so the obvious question is, what exactly is this vaccine supposed to achieve. What is the reason for it and why the panic to inject the entire population with it ?

When the polio vaccine came out it protected the recipient because it was an effective vaccine. There was no mandate by law to take it because every one knew that if you did not take it you could be infected by polio. So all took the vaccine and now the disease has all but gone extinct. That is how a true vaccine actually works !

Do I actually need to explain this further.
What manipulation? What is the point? That the government is trying to save lives? Oh...bad government!

Wow. The level of ignorance is staggering. People get flu vaccines almost every year because the flu virus evolves. The vaccines change as well. COVID also evolves. The mRNA vaccines are not perfect but they do work for the vast majority of people. COVID kills people. The vaccine on the other hand actually saves lives.

The real question is why wouldn't you get the vaccine? Momentary discomfort? Don't people want to put COVID and the masks behind them? I sure as hell do.

That ANYONE has bought into the anti-vax conspiracy theories demonstrates just how stupid the human species is.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 06:22 PM   #341
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What manipulation? What is the point? That the government is trying to save lives? Oh...bad government!

Wow. The level of ignorance is staggering. People get flu vaccines almost every year because the flu virus evolves. The vaccines change as well. COVID also evolves. The mRNA vaccines are not perfect but they do work for the vast majority of people. COVID kills people. The vaccine on the other hand actually saves lives.

The real question is why wouldn't you get the vaccine? Momentary discomfort? Don't people want to put COVID and the masks behind them? I sure as hell do.

That ANYONE has bought into the anti-vax conspiracy theories demonstrates just how stupid the human species is.
What? You want to be magnetized so forks stick to you, AC?
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 08:32 PM   #342
The Traveler
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 153
Oh joy ! I've wandered into a liberal echo chamber,
The Traveler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 08:42 PM   #343
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 16,674
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
Oh joy ! I've wandered into a liberal echo chamber,
No, you just made spectacularly bad assertions employing empty reasoning and outright falsehoods.

You being wrong doesn't make it an 'echo chamber'. 'Isn't it curious that everyone noticed how wrong what I said was? Doesn't that mean bias?' Naw.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 08:47 PM   #344
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 23,884
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
Oh joy ! I've wandered into a liberal echo chamber,
The vaccine is an IQ test. If you get it, you pass. If you don't get it, well, we can always get an immigrant to replace you and they'd be more valuable and a better American than a vaccine denier.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 09:13 PM   #345
Resume
Troublesome Passenger
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,153
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
Oh joy ! I've wandered into a liberal echo chamber,
You may recognize that the media you consume is an echo chamber but . . .
__________________
“One of the last things they do before they’re intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I’m sorry, but it’s too late.”

Dr. Brytney Cobia
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st July 2021, 11:38 PM   #346
kevbo
Thinker
 
kevbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Rogue Valley, Oregon
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
Oh joy ! I've wandered into a liberal echo chamber,
You wandered in, feel free to wander out.

Come back when you can put together a coherent argument and state an opinion that isn't many sides of silly, to put it nicely.
kevbo is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 02:29 AM   #347
Architect
Chief Punkah Wallah
 
Architect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 9,749
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
Now we can all agree that a vaccine is supposed to bring about an immunity to a specific disease. If it does not then it isn't a very good vaccine and if it does not protect at all then you have to question if it actually is a vaccine at all or if it is really something else that has been disguised as a vaccine meant to achieve some other purpose !
There's your problem right there.


A vaccine is intended to provoke a long-term immune response in the recipient which will consequently diminsh both their susceptibility to a virus and their ability to transmit it to others, for example through diminishing of the viral load. So a virus which prevents you becoming seriously ill is still a good vaccine. One which prevents you becoming ill at all is a very good vaccine. To suggest that a failure to do the former is merits the vaccine worthless is simple scientific illiteracy.

Quote:
Every body must get the vaccine, moral obligation and needs to be mandated by law for the common good. The reason being that those who do not get the vaccine can still infect those that do get the vaccine. DO YOU GUYS NOT SEE THE CONTRADICTION HERE.? It should be obvious that the vaccine is not actually expected to give immunity to covid so the obvious question is, what exactly is this vaccine supposed to achieve. What is the reason for it and why the panic to inject the entire population with it ?
Welll obviously it's to prevent people falling seriously ill. The other option is to let people build natural immunity by catching the disease and, in the normal course of events, accept that a significant proportion of people might die to obtain exactly the same result. Is it the latter which you support?
Quote:
When the polio vaccine came out it protected the recipient because it was an effective vaccine. There was no mandate by law to take it because every one knew that if you did not take it you could be infected by polio. So all took the vaccine and now the disease has all but gone extinct. That is how a true vaccine actually works !
See that's just not true. The reason people were so keen to take the polio vaccine was because they had seen the deaths and disabilities which the disease caused and accepted that any diminishing of those hoorendous statistics was to be welcomed. By way of example, the headmistress at my primary school had a partially paralysed leg as a result of childhood polio (I would guess she was born in the early 1930s). But some people do not seem to realise that Covid is a threat, especially if they are not in an obvious at-risk group, and hence like to walk around with their fingers in their ears singing "Lah Lah Lah".
__________________
When the men elected to make laws are but a small part of a foreign parliament, that is when all healthy national feeling dies.

James Keir Hardie (1856 - 1915): Politician, Founder of Scottish Labour Party
Architect is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 02:41 AM   #348
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't think anyone should be directing the primary blame at migrants (illegal or otherwise). However, ignoring or denying the mathematics of transmission is idiotic...
And yet the fact that you're focusing on this tiny minority shows that your opinion is being influenced by the idiotic right-wing propaganda.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 06:01 AM   #349
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 22,415
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Now we're on to something.
What are you on to?

The US is a messed up country. But it is not my country. Why should I care?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?


...love and buttercakes...
abaddon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 09:01 AM   #350
Foster Zygote
Dental Floss Tycoon
 
Foster Zygote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 18,787
Originally Posted by The Traveler View Post
Now we can all agree that a vaccine is supposed to bring about an immunity to a specific disease. If it does not then it isn't a very good vaccine and if it does not protect at all then you have to question if it actually is a vaccine at all or if it is really something else that has been disguised as a vaccine meant to achieve some other purpose !
The COVID-19 vaccines seem to be doing an excellent job of training the recipient's immune system to fight the virus. Currently over 99% of hospital admissions for COVID-19 are the unvaccinated, and the few vaccinated admissions have had relatively mild symptoms. Everyone dying of COVID-19 now is unvaccinated.

Quote:
Every body must get the vaccine, moral obligation and needs to be mandated by law for the common good.
Not yet. But if we get there, so be it. We have speed limits and prohibitions against driving under the influence of alcohol and drugs - for the common good.

Sadly, the sort of conspiracy theorists who fear vaccines more than deadly diseases will be even more likely to fight vaccination because of "muh freedoms!" and "teh Globalists!".

Quote:
The reason being that those who do not get the vaccine can still infect those that do get the vaccine.
No. Did you get that from the same source that told you that Mao invented guerilla warfare?

The reason is that those who don't get vaccinated can still infect others who are unvaccinated and give the virus plenty of breeding opportunities to evolve into a new strain that will be different enough that the vaccines are less effective, or not effective at all - like the delta variant.

Quote:
Do I actually need to explain this further.
You got it completely wrong, so you should probably stop now.
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone.
Foster Zygote is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 09:29 AM   #351
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,803
One emerging problem with the Delta variant is that it is a much much stronger virus. Below is a quote from the PBS NewsHour broadcast last Thursday evening. It is published under the heading, "Breakthrough COVID infections show ‘the unvaccinated' are now putting the vaccinated at risk."

Quote:
Mounting research suggests the variants are placing greater strain on the vaccines. When people are infected with the delta variant, Huffman said they produce a thousand times greater viral load than seen from the original COVID-19 strain...The amount of breakthrough cases we’re seeing actually suggest that the vaccines “are still working great,” but too much is being asked of them, said Dr. Drew Weissman, who spent nearly two decades conducting research that led to the development of the mRNA vaccines manufactured by Pfizer and Moderna to stop the coronaviru PBS link
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 09:53 AM   #352
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 14,607
From ze Twitter:

Quote:
I saw a guy this morning here in St Pete [St. Petersberg, Florida] with a t-shirt that said "I'd rather have COVID-19 than BIDEN-20", and people were complimenting him.
__________________
Cain: Don't be a homo.
Diablo: What's that supposed to mean?
Cain: It's a heteronormative remark meant to be taken at face-value.
Diablo: You're a lousy bigot. Apologise and withdraw that remark.
Cain: Nah.
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 10:04 AM   #353
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 29,323
I'm guessing that the CDC is going to be recommending a third booster shot. Note*** Israel is now insisting on third booster for all of its citizens.
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 10:26 AM   #354
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,816
The possibility of a booster shot down the road was there from the beginning. Only the anti-vaccine chuckletards are trying to turn into "OHHHHHH SO MIGHTY SCIENCE CHANGED IT MIND!" nonsense.

But again they played us exactly as they planned.

"If everyone gets a vaccine, this will all be over soon and we can return to normal."
"LOL I aint' gettin' no vaccine! You can't tell me what to do government person!"

Which lead to:

"Well because not enough people got vaccinated to reach herd immunity, stronger variants are popping up and we're going to have to go back to lockdowns and masks and all that."
"Well lookit there! The government told us everything would be okay and we're back to wearing masks again! They don't know what they are talking about!"

It's what they always do. You say something is going to work if nobody acts stupid, they act stupid and go "Told you it wouldn't work."

It why getting to a post-fact world was so important to them. They've destroyed the concepts of "experts" and turned "a consensus" into "an echo chamber" and make no distinction between a correct opinion and a popular one so they can keep being Proudly Wrong about everything and laugh at how much the world going to hell triggers the libs.
__________________
"When enough people make false promises, words stop meaning anything. Then there are no more answers, only better and better lies." - Jon Snow

"Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid." - Valery Legasov

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 1st August 2021 at 10:34 AM.
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 10:51 AM   #355
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 29,323
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The possibility of a booster shot down the road was there from the beginning. Only the anti-vaccine chuckletards are trying to turn into "OHHHHHH SO MIGHT SCIENCE CHANGED IT MIND!" nonsense.

But again they played us exactly like they planned.

"If everyone gets a vaccine, this will all be over soon and we can return to normal."
"LOL I aint' gettin' no vaccine! You can't tell me what to do government person!"

Which lead to:

"Well because not enough people got vaccinated to reach herd immunity, stronger variants are popping up and we're going to have to go back to lockdowns and masks and all that."
"Well lookit there! The government told us everything would be okay and we're back to wearing masks again! They don't know what they are talking about!"

It's what they always do. You say something is going to work if nobody acts stupid, they act stupid and go "Told you it wouldn't work."

It why getting to a post-fact world was so important to them. They've destroyed the concepts of "experts" and turned "a consensus" into "an echo chamber" and make no distinction between a correct opinion and a popular one so they can keep being Proudly Wrong about everything and laugh at how much the world going to hell triggers the libs.
I watched a video yesterday of this young woman telling everyone not to get vaccinated. The title of the video was "Do not comply." She could of been anywhere between 19 to 25 years old. I'm not really sure. She had this goth look to her. Dark hair, dark clothing, tattoos. She was saying the vaccines were an erosion of freedom. The amazing thing were the number of moronic comments cheering her on.

All I kept thinking about was why would anyone listen to her about this subject?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.

Last edited by acbytesla; 1st August 2021 at 12:03 PM.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 12:46 PM   #356
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I watched a video yesterday of this young woman telling everyone not to get vaccinated. The title of the video was "Do not comply." She could of been anywhere between 19 to 25 years old. I'm not really sure. She had this goth look to her. Dark hair, dark clothing, tattoos. She was saying the vaccines were an erosion of freedom. The amazing thing were the number of moronic comments cheering her on.

All I kept thinking about was why would anyone listen to her about this subject?
Cuz she ain't one o' them elite intellechual types!

How is asking you to get a vaccination an erosion of freedom? It's amazing how many people are choosing possible long term hospitalization, lasting health problems, or even death. Idiots.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 1st August 2021 at 12:50 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 01:06 PM   #357
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney Nova Scotia
Posts: 9,818
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Cuz she ain't one o' them elite intellechual types!

How is asking you to get a vaccination an erosion of freedom? It's amazing how many people are choosing possible long term hospitalization, lasting health problems, or even death. Idiots.
“Death will set you free!”
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 01:36 PM   #358
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,619
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
“Death will set you free!”
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 02:04 PM   #359
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 15,669
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I had a brief verbal exchange yesterday with an anti-vax protestor outside our local vaccination clinic when I was on my way down the street to the bank. She was holding up a sign that said "I will not take part in an experiment" . I laughed at her sign and said to her "Too late honey, you already are... you're in the control group". She told me to "**** off!"
Well, it does bring a new, though lopsided, meaning to the phrase "double blind experiment".
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st August 2021, 02:19 PM   #360
The Man
Unbanned zombie poster
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 15,669
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
One emerging problem with the Delta variant is that it is a much much stronger virus. Below is a quote from the PBS NewsHour broadcast last Thursday evening. It is published under the heading, "Breakthrough COVID infections show ‘the unvaccinated' are now putting the vaccinated at risk."
Great, so not only 60% more transmissible, twice as lethal but also apparently and perhaps a 1,000 times more effective at replication.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:39 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.