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Old 29th August 2021, 08:46 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Re. the highlighted: Turkmenistan is on the other side of Asia. Do you mean Tajikistan- which is more affiliated with Russia than with China- or perhaps Xinjiang, which was formerly known as Turkestan?
You are correct, I meant Tajikistan. They are friendly enough with China that they could probably be bribed into letting China's military through. It's no skin off Russia's nose if China wants to throw money in a hole.
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Old 29th August 2021, 03:21 PM   #122
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The U.S. military seems to know a lot about Isis-K's next moves.

Spying on communications? A traitor within their ranks?
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Old 29th August 2021, 06:09 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
The U.S. military seems to know a lot about Isis-K's next moves.

Spying on communications? A traitor within their ranks?
Them being foolish enough to be using all this super cool hyper tech new communications equipment they just happen to have found lying around?

Just trying to put a good spin on an otherwise sorry situation. I can't help but assume ISIS-K managed to get their hands on some of the left behind hardware.

I really don't care about the "how" part of the U.S. Armed Forces discreetly following what ISIS-1000 are doing, just as long as they that that info and swat them good before they do any more harm to our people trying to get out. At least I hope that's what's going on behind the scenes right now, positive proactive prevention.
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Old 29th August 2021, 08:46 PM   #124
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Rockets fired at Kabul airport, they seemed to have been intercepted bu us Anti Aircraft units.
Not good,not good at all. THey could attempt to barrage the aircraft taking off.
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Old 30th August 2021, 02:09 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
The U.S. military seems to know a lot about Isis-K's next moves.

Spying on communications? A traitor within their ranks?
ISIS-K also seem to know a lot about the US military's next moves too.
Funny, that. It's almost as if, when planning an attack, they would observe their targets first.
However, I'm not a military man, so what do I know?
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Old 30th August 2021, 03:07 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
ISIS-K also seem to know a lot about the US military's next moves too.
Funny, that. It's almost as if, when planning an attack, they would observe their targets first.
However, I'm not a military man, so what do I know?
The U.S. military was able to strike a car containing explosives about a day ago near the Kabul airport, Cosmic Yak. Reuters explains:
Quote:
WASHINGTON, Aug 29 (Reuters) - American forces launched a drone strike in Kabul on Sunday that killed a suicide car bomber suspected of preparing to attack the airport, U.S. officials said, as the United States nears the end of its military presence in the Afghan capital.

The strike, first reported by Reuters, was the second carried out by U.S. forces in Afghanistan since an Islamic State suicide bomber struck the airport on Thursday, killing 13 U.S. troops and scores of Afghan civilians trying to flee the country.
(https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...ay-2021-08-29/).

It seems difficult (to me, at least) to identify such a suicide car bomber before it carries out the actual attack. But AP News does provide some details:
Quote:
According to a senior U.S. official, the U.S. military drone fired a Hellfire missile at a vehicle in a compound between two buildings after individuals were seen loading explosives into the trunk. The official said there was an initial explosion caused by the missile, followed by a much larger fireball, believed to be the result of the substantial amount of explosives inside the vehicle. The U.S. believes that two Islamic State group individuals who were targeted were killed.
(https://apnews.com/article/afghanist...b57aee297bd270).

So it's possible the U.S. military is carefully and constantly monitoring the surroundings of the airport, on the lookout for anything suspicious.

There were unfortunately civilian deaths in this strike:
Quote:
The US military has said it is investigating after at least nine Afghan civilians were reportedly killed in a drone strike which aimed to prevent an attack on Kabul airport.
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58380791).

When you (unnecessarily) invade another country on the other side of the world, this rarely remains nice and pretty.
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Old 30th August 2021, 03:08 PM   #127
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The Taliban are such nice people....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/30/asia/...ntl/index.html
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Old 30th August 2021, 03:13 PM   #128
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Maybe.

The problem is, what is happening officially, and what is happening as scum take the same tack Duterte's supporters have in the Philippines?

I can certainly see multiple scenarios where psychopaths are using the power vacuum to do what the hell they like.

And I'm not sticking up for the Taliban any more than I'll watch them be blamed for all atrocities.

I'm sure you're aware how many Afghan children died as a result of Biden's promise to wreak vengeance on the ISIS Special K people.
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Old 30th August 2021, 04:24 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Taliban are such nice people....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/30/asia/...ntl/index.html
Harsh music critics, that's for sure.
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:37 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Maybe.

The problem is, what is happening officially, and what is happening as scum take the same tack Duterte's supporters have in the Philippines?

I can certainly see multiple scenarios where psychopaths are using the power vacuum to do what the hell they like.

And I'm not sticking up for the Taliban any more than I'll watch them be blamed for all atrocities.

I'm sure you're aware how many Afghan children died as a result of Biden's promise to wreak vengeance on the ISIS Special K people.
I think it is worth reflecting on what happened in France after WW2. Nearly 10,000 collaborators were summarily executed in local vigilantism. Nearly 100,000 will have been subject to other forms of justice such as being beaten up, tarred and feathered etc. This in a civilised western country. The truth is Afghanistan is a tribal country where feuds and vendettas remain a way of life. Whatever the central Taliban government say or want there are going to be local reprisals.
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:56 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
This in a civilised western country.
Steady on - aren't you talking about France?
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Old 31st August 2021, 01:42 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Steady on - aren't you talking about France?
Similar things happened across occupied Western Europe - The Netherlands were a particular example that springs to mind.
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Old 31st August 2021, 09:16 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Steady on - aren't you talking about France?
Yes, France. The country that inspired the founding fathers of the US. Not a country the would behave like mediaeval monsters like the Taliban do. I mean the execution of 50,000 people and imprisonment of 2% of the population (of about 15,000,000) in one year is not something that could happen in Enlightenment Europe you have to be evil mediaeval Islamists to do something like that. Not the inspiration of the USA.
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:20 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Yes, France. The country that inspired the founding fathers of the US. Not a country the would behave like mediaeval monsters like the Taliban do. I mean the execution of 50,000 people and imprisonment of 2% of the population (of about 15,000,000) in one year is not something that could happen in Enlightenment Europe you have to be evil mediaeval Islamists to do something like that. Not the inspiration of the USA.
The population of France was about 40 million in 1945, Planigale, not about 15 million (see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...r_World_War_II).
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:21 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Taliban are such nice people....

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/30/asia/...ntl/index.html
The Taliban are the real victims here. Just so misunderstood and "demonized".
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:26 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I think it is worth reflecting on what happened in France after WW2. Nearly 10,000 collaborators were summarily executed in local vigilantism. Nearly 100,000 will have been subject to other forms of justice such as being beaten up, tarred and feathered etc. This in a civilised western country. The truth is Afghanistan is a tribal country where feuds and vendettas remain a way of life. Whatever the central Taliban government say or want there are going to be local reprisals.
Can you just give us an estimate on how many children the Taliban are going to need to gang rape and butcher in front of their parents in order to re-establish non-medieval religious authority?
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:40 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Maybe.

The problem is, what is happening officially, and what is happening as scum take the same tack Duterte's supporters have in the Philippines?

I can certainly see multiple scenarios where psychopaths are using the power vacuum to do what the hell they like.

And I'm not sticking up for the Taliban any more than I'll watch them be blamed for all atrocities.

I'm sure you're aware how many Afghan children died as a result of Biden's promise to wreak vengeance on the ISIS Special K people.
Which atrocities, specifically, are being blamed on the Taliban unfairly?
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:50 AM   #138
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This infidel knew the rules:
Quote:
In an interview with The New York Times Wednesday, Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said "music is forbidden in Islam," when asked if it would once again be banned in public in Afghanistan.

But don't worry. This is the "new" Taliban:
Quote:
He added that the Taliban hoped it could "persuade people not to do such things, instead of pressuring them."
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Old 31st August 2021, 10:56 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
The population of France was about 40 million in 1945, Planigale, not about 15 million (see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...r_World_War_II).
The clue was in being the inspiration for the US, Enlightenment France was eighteenth century, this was post revolutionary France when the population was 15 million.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:05 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Can you just give us an estimate on how many children the Taliban are going to need to gang rape and butcher in front of their parents in order to re-establish non-medieval religious authority?
None.

I think you will find that both rape and murder of children will be crimes under the Taliban, and probably more severely punished than in the West. Since i am opposed to capital punishment I am absolutely not arguing that the use of capital punishment by the Taliban or anyone else is a good thing.

What about the US? How many children are needed to be gang raped and murdered to establish a liberal democratic government?

Atrocities happen, I do not defend them. But do not pretend that the US hasn't just butchered 6 children in front of their parents as its last act of the occupation of Afghanistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud...e_and_killings
https://pictureshistory.blogspot.com...etnam-war.html
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:24 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
The clue was in being the inspiration for the US, Enlightenment France was eighteenth century, this was post revolutionary France when the population was 15 million.
So, you are now apparently referring to post-revolutionary violence in France (around 1789), even though you said:
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I think it is worth reflecting on what happened in France after WW2. Nearly 10,000 collaborators were summarily executed in local vigilantism. Nearly 100,000 will have been subject to other forms of justice such as being beaten up, tarred and feathered etc. This in a civilised western country.
(sorry, doesn't seem very clear to me).

Anyway, the population of France was 28 million in 1790 (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoi...40_%C3%A0_1860 , a wikipedia page in French only), not 15 million.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:29 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And, pray tell, what is the diffrence between a Jew fleeing Nazi Germany, or a RUssian fleeing Soviet Russia and an Afghan fleeing what anybody who is not living in another reality knows i going to be a brutal Taliban regime?
People feel bad about returning the Jews to Germany when they tried to flee to America? The others of course no one feels bad about.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:33 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Which atrocities, specifically, are being blamed on the Taliban unfairly?
We'll never know, but it's abundantly clear after a million years of human history that atrocities will happen, and not all of them will be done by the Taliban.

People other than the Taliban are bad.

How many civilians did USA kill with indiscriminate drone strikes over the past 20 years? Are you holding them accountable?

Seems to me the real reason people are getting their panties twisted about the Taliban is because USA lost, yet again. If you count up the number of people killed or tortured by any regime, China is probably well in the lead over the past decade, and I think you'll find USA still does quite a lot of trade with that country.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:59 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
So, you are now apparently referring to post-revolutionary violence in France (around 1789), even though you said:

(sorry, doesn't seem very clear to me).

Anyway, the population of France was 28 million in 1790 (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoi...40_%C3%A0_1860 , a wikipedia page in French only), not 15 million.
Sorry for the time shift, I did not meant to confuse you. Happy to accept your population, it is irrelevant to the point that what has happened so far in Afghanistan following a successful revolution, war of liberation, is less bloody than often happens. The Taliban so far appear no more evil than you would expect of a group of men coming out of a twenty year long war.
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:01 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Can you just give us an estimate on how many children the Taliban are going to need to gang rape and butcher in front of their parents in order to re-establish non-medieval religious authority?
But that are their "Traditional Afghan Values", and should be respected
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Old 31st August 2021, 12:24 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But that are their "Traditional Afghan Values", and should be respected
Perhaps you could provide evidence that this is a traditional Afghan value? Perhaps also explain why men who are not Afghanis have done the same thing year after year throughout the world. It seems to be these are traditional male values handed down from father to son.
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Old 31st August 2021, 02:03 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Perhaps you could provide evidence that this is a traditional Afghan value? Perhaps also explain why men who are not Afghanis have done the same thing year after year throughout the world. It seems to be these are traditional male values handed down from father to son.
Let's not forget that even in our enlightened western democracies it has only become illegal to rape one's wife in the past ~30 years, and it's hardly universal even now.

I will never forget a scene in the 1990s where a group of revolting old white men protested that their right to physically discipline their wives was about to be removed.

As my buddy Jesus once said, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone".
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Old 31st August 2021, 03:28 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Let's not forget that even in our enlightened western democracies it has only become illegal to rape one's wife in the past ~30 years, and it's hardly universal even now.

I will never forget a scene in the 1990s where a group of revolting old white men protested that their right to physically discipline their wives was about to be removed.

As my buddy Jesus once said, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone".
Did your buddy ever enforce religious piety by sending his followers to the homes of the offenders, dragging their prepubescent daughters out into the street, gang raping them, and then bashing their brains out in front of their parents as an object lesson to the rest of the village?
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Old 31st August 2021, 03:54 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
We'll never know, but it's abundantly clear after a million years of human history that atrocities will happen, and not all of them will be done by the Taliban.
Who has claimed that all atrocities in human history have been done by the Taliban? Who are you contradicting?
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Old 31st August 2021, 04:55 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Did your buddy ever enforce religious piety by sending his followers to the homes of the offenders, dragging their prepubescent daughters out into the street, gang raping them, and then bashing their brains out in front of their parents as an object lesson to the rest of the village?
Are you saying American troops who did that were attempting to enforce religious piety?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud...e_and_killings

Huh, you do learn something every day.
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Old 31st August 2021, 04:56 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Who has claimed that all atrocities in human history have been done by the Taliban? Who are you contradicting?
That statement convinces me you don't understand plain English, because the conclusion you've drawn about what the post means is far from reality.
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Old 31st August 2021, 05:15 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
"He added that the Taliban hoped it could "persuade people not to do such things, instead of pressuring them."
That must sound very reassuring to the "government doesn't boil down to force or the threat of force" folks.

Meanwhile I read it as "Inshallah we can just threaten to threaten you, and you'll choose to comply without us having to actually threaten you"
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Old 31st August 2021, 05:46 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That must sound very reassuring to the "government doesn't boil down to force or the threat of force" folks.

Meanwhile I read it as "Inshallah we can just threaten to threaten you, and you'll choose to comply without us having to actually threaten you"
I read it as... "this is what I have to say to the international media."
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Old 31st August 2021, 05:52 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Are you saying American troops who did that were attempting to enforce religious piety?
Is that a yes or a no?
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Old 31st August 2021, 05:53 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
That statement convinces me you don't understand plain English, because the conclusion you've drawn about what the post means is far from reality.
Break it down for us slow folk who can't keep up with your high intellect.
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Old 31st August 2021, 11:58 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Did your buddy ever enforce religious piety by sending his followers to the homes of the offenders, dragging their prepubescent daughters out into the street, gang raping them, and then bashing their brains out in front of their parents as an object lesson to the rest of the village?
You are creating the straw man argument that rape and murder is about religious piety. The two are unconnected. Rape is about being male, not about being religious. Your argument is as rational as claiming the Rape of Berlin was about education in Marxism and that My Lai was about enforcing democracy on the vietnamese. The common theme is not religious piety or ideological fervour but men.

There are certainly atrocities committed by men out of ideology, year zero in Cambodia, nazi death camps, but these are clearly different from isolated atrocities.
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Old 1st September 2021, 09:24 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Yes, France. The country that inspired the founding fathers of the US. Not a country the would behave like mediaeval monsters like the Taliban do. I mean the execution of 50,000 people and imprisonment of 2% of the population (of about 15,000,000) in one year is not something that could happen in Enlightenment Europe you have to be evil mediaeval Islamists to do something like that. Not the inspiration of the USA.
Contemporary means of dissemination of knowledge make incomprehensible any parallels. The thought experiment is king, where would you choose to exist today?
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Old 1st September 2021, 11:09 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Is that a yes or a no?
You answer me this and I'll explain it to you, regardless of the fact that your question was idiotic - what I said is not ambiguous at all:

Quote:
Are you saying American troops who did that (child rape and murder) were attempting to enforce religious piety?
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Old 1st September 2021, 11:19 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
You are creating the straw man argument that rape and murder is about religious piety. The two are unconnected. Rape is about being male, not about being religious.
You are wrong. For the Taliban, it is about religious piety. It's true that crimes like rape have non-religious motivations, but that isn't disqualifying. Their religion still provides justification and encouragement to do those things. The fact that they may have no-religious motives as well doesn't make the religious motives irrelevant. Most human behaviors have multiple motivations.

Quote:
The common theme is not religious piety or ideological fervour but men.
If you haven't noticed, the Taliban's religious beliefs are incredibly sexist, so again, that's not exactly disqualifying.

Quote:
There are certainly atrocities committed by men out of ideology, year zero in Cambodia, nazi death camps, but these are clearly different from isolated atrocities.
The rape and murder that the Taliban commit are not isolated. And they are ideologically motivated.
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Old 1st September 2021, 11:24 AM   #160
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There have been ideologically evil regimes, but the Taliban isn't one of those regimes, because reasons.
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