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Old 3rd September 2021, 11:15 PM   #201
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I think that many people (including myself) would agree that democratic societies are better for the people than totalitarian Islamic societies.

But one should not forget that the U.S. brutally invaded Afghanistan in 2001 (they came uninvited ...). Because of this, I don't think the Americans can claim to be morally superior to the Taliban.
Seems to me some people from an organization based in Afghansitan paid an uninvited visit to the US on 9/11........
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Old 4th September 2021, 02:51 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
What does renounce mean in this scenario?
renounce
(rɪnaʊns)
Word forms: 3rd person singular present tense renounces, present participle renouncing, past tense, past participle renounced
1. VERB
If you renounce a belief or a way of behaving, you decide and declare publicly that you no longer have that belief or will no longer behave in that way.
You must renounce your old ways of thinking. [VERB noun]
A substantial minority, unable to renounce Marxism, left to form a new party called Communist Refoundation. [VERB noun]

Even Pakistans Prime minister had the nerve to call Bin-laden a martyr so i doubt the Taliban will suddenly find it in their heart to renounce a terrorist mass-murderer.
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Old 4th September 2021, 02:53 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
But one should not forget that the U.S. brutally invaded Afghanistan in 2001 (they came uninvited ...). Because of this, I don't think the Americans can claim to be morally superior to the Taliban.
Actually the US was invited by Afghans to remove the tyrannical Taliban from power. It's telling that the vast majority of Afghan people did not rise up against the "invaders" but rather embraced them.
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Old 4th September 2021, 06:24 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Statistics please. What is the median age of marriage?
Accurate statistics are hard to come by, but the statistics that are available all point to it being extremely common. For example:

https://www.unicef.org/afghanistan/s...fghanistan.pdf

"42% of households across the 5 surveyed provinces indicated that at least one member of their household had been married before the age of 18."

Quote:
By law (pre Taliban ie for most of the past 20 years persons had to be over 16 to marry.
Doesn't matter what the law is when it's not enforced.

I may come back to some of your other points, but this one was too much of a doozy to pass up.

Quote:
4) The Taliban are not international terrorists, they are focussed purely on the internal issues of Afghanistan.
What the hell does that have to do with whether or not they are evil? It has NOTHING to do with that. It may be relevant to how they affect US national security, but even then, they've got a track record or permitting international terrorists to operate out of their territory. But again, whether or not they are evil isn't contingent upon where they want to focus that evil.

Quote:
i do not dispute that atrocities happen, but it is not and never has been Taliban policy to rape and murder children.
No true scottsman fallacy.

I'm reminded of the joke about Brezhnev. After becoming chairman of the communist party, he's showing off to his mother that he has this brand new apartment, this brand new car, a country villa, and even a helicopter. And his mother says to him in a worried tone, "But what if the communists come back?"

"Official" policy is far less important than what actually goes on.
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Old 4th September 2021, 07:21 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Actually the US was invited by Afghans to remove the tyrannical Taliban from power. It's telling that the vast majority of Afghan people did not rise up against the "invaders" but rather embraced them.
I'd even go so far as to say the US was invited by the Taliban itself, on an "oh yeah? Make me!" basis.
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Old 4th September 2021, 08:48 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
"Al-Tabari says she was nine at the time her marriage was consummated.[33] Sahih al-Bukhari's hadith says "that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old."[34]"

from AishaWP
There is no first hand source, there are differing opinions as to the exact age other sources would put consummation around 12, the truth is likely to be it would have been at menarche. Child marriages were globally common in that period, and certainly does not mean the Prophet was sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children as you claim. The very fact that even your source says three years passed between marriage and sex proves that. For instance the age of marriage in Rome was 12 for a woman and 14 for a boy. Rome was distinctly liberal with regards to women's rights for the period. In contemporaneous Byzantium, the age of betrothal was 7 with marriage (consummation) being 12 for girls and 14 for boys. The church regarded betrothal as marriage if betrothal happened after the legal age for marriage was reached. The Prophet's marriage to Aisha pretty much met the same cultural standard.

'Late' marriage - late teens early twenties - is a uniquely European cultural norm that emerged during the late mediaeval period. The reason for its emergence is disputed. But you are very much trying to impose modern European cultural norms on a different time and place, and negatively judging based on your preconceptions. Pretty much the definition of racism.

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Old 4th September 2021, 08:56 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I suppose we should define what a "child bride" is first. In the U.S., the youngest a child can be legally wed is 16, and that's in less than 2/3 of the states, the rest being 17 or 18.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/table_marriage

https://www.bhwlawfirm.com/legal-age...ed-states-map/


What IS the age of consent in Afghanistan?
Actually the correct answer is the US has no lower limit on marriage age because it is a state and not federal issue. The minimum age of consent arises from English common-law and is 12; the age of marriage at the time the law was established in England. States have over the years legislated for higher minimums. Up until 2018 some states had a lower limit of 14.
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Old 4th September 2021, 09:15 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Accurate statistics are hard to come by, but the statistics that are available all point to it being extremely common. For example:

https://www.unicef.org/afghanistan/s...fghanistan.pdf

"42% of households across the 5 surveyed provinces indicated that at least one member of their household had been married before the age of 18."



Doesn't matter what the law is when it's not enforced.

I may come back to some of your other points, but this one was too much of a doozy to pass up.



What the hell does that have to do with whether or not they are evil? It has NOTHING to do with that. It may be relevant to how they affect US national security, but even then, they've got a track record or permitting international terrorists to operate out of their territory. But again, whether or not they are evil isn't contingent upon where they want to focus that evil.



No true scottsman fallacy.

I'm reminded of the joke about Brezhnev. After becoming chairman of the communist party, he's showing off to his mother that he has this brand new apartment, this brand new car, a country villa, and even a helicopter. And his mother says to him in a worried tone, "But what if the communists come back?"

"Official" policy is far less important than what actually goes on.
Thank you. Of course these will be multi-generational households, so the one person may be a grand parent. If only a minority of households report a minority of people within that household marrying under 18 it suggests most married over 18, putting the median age above 18. However, it is a cultural norm to marry daughters off early; the is nothing to do with the Taliban. It happened when the Taliban was not in power. it happens in ex patriot Pakistani communities in the UK. Early child marriage is not being driven by the Taliban. The Taliban are influenced by the community they are from. A major failing in islamic epistemology is failing to separate out what is Quranic from what is traditional. Median age of marriage for women in Pakistan is 18 and in some parts nearer 16. The legal minimum age of marriage for a woman in Pakistan is 16, but up until relatively recently (the 1960s I think) was 14.
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Old 4th September 2021, 01:05 PM   #209
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The Taliban had changed:yeah Right

.https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/04/asia/...ntl/index.html
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Old 4th September 2021, 02:31 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
This is exactly the caliber of drivel to be expected from someone who wishes Nazi Germany had developed an atomic weapon.
What I said about the German atomic weapon project, about one year ago, was:
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
However, I believe that, if Nazi Germany had succeeded in developing a nuclear weapon before the end of the war (admittedly a rather scary prospect), there could have been some positive aspects to this: they could have prevented an invasion of their territory, the later political disease of Israeli-British-American arrogance might not have occurred, the rights of Palestinians might have been better defended (after WW2), and it is even possible that the Jews would have been less persecuted, to the extent that Nazi persecutions of the Jews reflected German anger and exasperation during the war.
So, I did not just say "I wish Germany had developed an atomic weapon", what I said was more nuanced.

Briefly, the final result of the war might have been more balanced (not just Nazi Germany completely crushed and humiliated), and the Allies might have had to give up their demand of unconditional surrender. And the myth of the British and the Americans being the great heroes of WWII, in which you have all been raised, might have been more difficult to impose.

Tony Blair might have been less eager and enthusiastic about invading Iraq for example if London had been destroyed in 1945 like Hiroshima was (Britain essentially started WWII in 1939).

Regarding Scott Ritter's article, I found it remarkable by the level of detail.

And you can't really understand 9/11 and anti-U.S. terrorism if you ignore Israel. Events of the past shape the present.
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Old 4th September 2021, 02:37 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Taliban had changed:yeah Right

.https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/04/asia/...ntl/index.html
These women who protest against the Taliban are very courageous.

What they do is probably a better way to try to change a society than U.S. invasions and bombings.
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Old 4th September 2021, 02:58 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
However, I believe that, if Nazi Germany had succeeded in developing a nuclear weapon before the end of the war (admittedly a rather scary prospect), there could have been some positive aspects to this: they could have prevented an invasion of their territory, the later political disease of Israeli-British-American arrogance might not have occurred, the rights of Palestinians might have been better defended (after WW2), and it is even possible that the Jews would have been less persecuted, to the extent that Nazi persecutions of the Jews reflected German anger and exasperation during the war.
Jesus, this is on par with "I'm sorry for beating you honey, I just get so frustrated sometimes!"

Those poor, misunderstood fascists. If only the Brits and Americans had spent more time trying to be understanding.
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Old 4th September 2021, 04:01 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Taliban had changed:yeah Right

.https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/04/asia/...ntl/index.html
Imagine if the world wasn't staring at them right now. It would have been a slaughter.

Each of those females who showed have more courage than the entire population of Taliban apologists.
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Old 4th September 2021, 04:14 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
What I said about the German atomic weapon project, about one year ago, was:

So, I did not just say "I wish Germany had developed an atomic weapon", what I said was more nuanced.

Briefly, the final result of the war might have been more balanced (not just Nazi Germany completely crushed and humiliated), and the Allies might have had to give up their demand of unconditional surrender. And the myth of the British and the Americans being the great heroes of WWII, in which you have all been raised, might have been more difficult to impose.

Tony Blair might have been less eager and enthusiastic about invading Iraq for example if London had been destroyed in 1945 like Hiroshima was (Britain essentially started WWII in 1939).
I stand by my characterization.

Quote:
Regarding Scott Ritter's article, I found it remarkable by the level of detail.
Ritter told you what you wanted to hear. He's good at that.

Quote:
And you can't really understand 9/11 and anti-U.S. terrorism if you ignore Israel. Events of the past shape the present.
Zionism didn't force the Taliban to murder Afghan men who's beards were too short.
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Old 4th September 2021, 04:33 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
These women who protest against the Taliban are very courageous.

What they do is probably a better way to try to change a society than U.S. invasions and bombings.
As I said, if the world's cameras weren't laser focused right now on all things Taliban, those women would have been brutalized and then vaporized as an object lesson to any other civilians thinking of getting in their way. And that message would have been received loud and clear.
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Old 4th September 2021, 06:29 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
As I said, if the world's cameras weren't laser focused right now on all things Taliban, those women would have been brutalized and then vaporized as an object lesson to any other civilians thinking of getting in their way. And that message would have been received loud and clear.
Ah, you're finally agreeing they're capable of change, as long as the world is watching.

Do you think there's more or less chance of international pressure if they're shunned or accepted?
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Old 4th September 2021, 07:39 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Ah, you're finally agreeing they're capable of change, as long as the world is watching.
When have I ever claimed that the threat of dire consequence doesn't temporarily affect superficial behavior? Just because Ted Bundy could charm the gullible in public situations, doesn't mean anything meaningful had changed about who he really was.

Quote:
Do you think there's more or less chance of international pressure if they're shunned or accepted?
Whatever approach gives those afghans who don't want to live in a brutal theocracy the greatest chance of getting the Taliban entirely out of their lives as quickly as possible, is the strategy I support. I'm not sure what that approach is.
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Old 4th September 2021, 09:12 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Tony Blair might have been less eager and enthusiastic about invading Iraq for example if London had been destroyed in 1945 like Hiroshima was (Britain essentially started WWII in 1939).
I'm starting to see the reasoning behind the interesting opinions you have aired.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 4th September 2021 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 4th September 2021, 10:19 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Regarding Scott Ritter's article, I found it remarkable by the level of detail.

And you can't really understand 9/11 and anti-U.S. terrorism if you ignore Israel. Events of the past shape the present.
Ritter is an anti Semitic nut job.
Edited by Darat:  Breach of Rule 12 removed.


And no, actually, Israel has very little to do with most terrorism or conflict in the Middle East. I mean, for ***** sake, the idea doesn’t even make any sense. Their territory isn’t of any particular strategic importance, they don’t have much oil, the rest of the Arab world doesn’t even like the Palestinians. Other than hating Jews, what’s the point?
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Last edited by Darat; 5th September 2021 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 5th September 2021, 05:35 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
renounce
(rɪnaʊns)
Word forms: 3rd person singular present tense renounces, present participle renouncing, past tense, past participle renounced
1. VERB
If you renounce a belief or a way of behaving, you decide and declare publicly that you no longer have that belief or will no longer behave in that way.
You must renounce your old ways of thinking. [VERB noun]
A substantial minority, unable to renounce Marxism, left to form a new party called Communist Refoundation. [VERB noun]

Even Pakistans Prime minister had the nerve to call Bin-laden a martyr so i doubt the Taliban will suddenly find it in their heart to renounce a terrorist mass-murderer.
So you ask the Taliban to renounce Bin-laden. But renounce by your definition applies to a belief or behaviour, Bin-laden is a person, a concrete object, so renounce does not make sense here.
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Old 5th September 2021, 05:41 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Actually the US was invited by Afghans to remove the tyrannical Taliban from power. It's telling that the vast majority of Afghan people did not rise up against the "invaders" but rather embraced them.
Not sure there was any 'invite' and who has the authority to invite another country to invade? Was a plebiscite held?

Pretty sure this argument then holds up even more strongly for the Talib, certainly no evidence the people rose up against them, it appears not even the Afghan army did.
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Old 5th September 2021, 05:51 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The Taliban had changed:yeah Right

.https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/04/asia/...ntl/index.html

Interesting they were allowed to demonstrate, and not arrested for doing so. A taliban spokesman listened to them and said their demands would be taken to the leadership. The violence happened when the demonstrators insisted on marching to the presidential palace, non lethal violence was used to stop them.

In many western countries even in normal situations demonstrators might be prevented from marching on the presidential palace, let alone in a state of emergency. Especially when the opponents of the Taliban are known to use suicide bombers.

I wonder what would happen if a group of muslim women suddenly marched on the Whitehouse or congress? How close would they be allowed to get?

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Old 5th September 2021, 06:04 AM   #223
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I am not an apologist for the Talib, I disagree with most of their beliefs what I am opposed to the the racist views being expressed here. It is racist to interpret any activities of the Talib as bad when the same actions in e.g. Paris or Washington would not be evil.

A spontaneous demonstration of Burka clad women was allowed to happen and had an official response to their demands, at a time of high risk from terrorism and suicide bombing they were prevented from approaching the presidential palace with non-violent force. The same would have happened a year ago when the US was in charge, it would happen in Paris or Washington.

It is simple prejudice (literally) to assume that if the press would not have been there they would all have been murdered.

It is also noticeable that the press were there and reported on the events! Not something that might be allowed in some countries e.g. China.

We appear to have freedom of association, speech, demonstration, and press all demonstrated here. Like all freedoms there were limits.
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Old 5th September 2021, 11:59 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
We appear to have freedom of association, speech, demonstration, and press all demonstrated here. Like all freedoms there were limits.
Oh please. This little demonstration is nothing compared with the Talibans long campaign of targeted murders and threatening people into silence. The fact that Afghan journalists, officials and others have left the country in droves is because they have been threatened by the Taliban.

Sooner rather than later people like this will be whipped, beaten and shot nor will there be any Afghan media to report it.
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Old 5th September 2021, 12:06 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I am not an apologist for the Talib
You have managed to fool us all. Including in this very post.
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Old 5th September 2021, 12:09 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Not sure there was any 'invite' and who has the authority to invite another country to invade? Was a plebiscite held?
Plebiscite? Don't be cute. The Taliban did not and still does not allow people any say in how Afghanistan was run and those who opposed them, as distasteful many of them were, still had more legitimacy than the Taliban can ever have.

Quote:
Pretty sure this argument then holds up even more strongly for the Talib, certainly no evidence the people rose up against them, it appears not even the Afghan army did.
I guess you haven't been paying attention to the media reports of the most intense fighting in Afghanistan this year? The fact that they didn't all fight to the death doesn't mean that they didn't resist.
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Old 5th September 2021, 12:15 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I am not an apologist for the Talib
Question- were you able to keep a straight face while typing this? Be honest.
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Old 5th September 2021, 01:32 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Oh please. This little demonstration is nothing compared with the Talibans long campaign of targeted murders and threatening people into silence. The fact that Afghan journalists, officials and others have left the country in droves is because they have been threatened by the Taliban.

Sooner rather than later people like this will be whipped, beaten and shot nor will there be any Afghan media to report it.
To avoid this kind of catastrophic violence, the best thing to do is to give the Taliban a few things that they like, for example money, or accepting a government position when it is offered:
Quote:
Taliban Offered Ahmad Massoud Post In Afghanistan Govt, Resistance Chief Refused: Report
As the fierce battle between the Northern Alliance resistance and Taliban continues to ravage Afghanistan, the negotiation between both parties have failed
(https://www.republicworld.com/world-...ed-report.html).

Massoud said "No", but he could have sent a delegate to represent him, with a demand of continued autonomy for the Panjshir Valley.

See also:
Quote:
A US lawmaker has accused the Taliban of stopping Afghans and Americans from leaving Afghanistan via Mazar-i-Sharif International Airport.
...
The Texas representative added: "We know the reason why is because the Taliban want something in exchange."

Last edited by Michel H; 5th September 2021 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 5th September 2021, 02:42 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
To avoid this kind of catastrophic violence, the best thing to do is to give the Taliban a few things that they like, for example money, or accepting a government position when it is offered:
Because giving in to violent threats never has any negative consequences.
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Old 5th September 2021, 02:59 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Question- were you able to keep a straight face while typing this? Be honest.
Yes. You can point out errors made, you can try and point out peoples racist beliefs. What some posters do not seem to understand is the difference between the Taliban, a political / religious group, and the many local militia groups who support them. It is easy to say something bad happens lets blame the Taliban. Yet if a US soldier or policeman commits crime no one says the government is evil. There are mass shootings in the US, church burned down, but people do not rush to say that is the Us government to blame.

The Taliban should get the blame for the policies they do have. Yes, they will let women attend university but it is not necessary for them to be segregated and wear the Niqab, I think that should be argued against. Their policy on abortion is to restrictive (although I think a bit more liberal than Texas).

I do not know what the Taliban will do in future, nor does anyone else. But condemning for acts they have not yet done is unreasonable.

Last edited by Planigale; 5th September 2021 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 5th September 2021, 03:48 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Because giving in to violent threats never has any negative consequences.
You can also be tough and deal with the Taliban like the Allies dealt with Nazi Germany during WWII, but I think this lead to some negative consequences for some groups of people.

Note: I forgot a link in post #228:
Quote:
A US lawmaker has accused the Taliban of stopping Afghans and Americans from leaving Afghanistan via Mazar-i-Sharif International Airport.
...
The Texas representative added: "We know the reason why is because the Taliban want something in exchange."
(https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58455959).
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Old 5th September 2021, 04:15 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Yes.
If true, that is an impressive display of self control.

Quote:
Yet if a US soldier or policeman commits crime no one says the government is evil
You're pulling my leg, right?
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Old 5th September 2021, 04:34 PM   #233
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In an unfortunate incident, Taliban accidentally behead man while issuing a traffic ticket:

Quote:
Sohail Pardis was driving from his home in Afghanistan's capital Kabul to nearby Khost province to pick up his sister for the upcoming Eid holiday celebrations to mark the end of Ramadan.

It was supposed to be a happy occasion enjoyed with family. But during the five-hour trip on May 12, as Pardis, 32, drove through a stretch of desert, his vehicle was blocked at a checkpoint by Taliban militants.
Just days before, Pardis had confided to his friend that he was receiving death threats from the Taliban, who had discovered he had worked as a translator for the United States Army for 16 months during the 20-year-long conflict.
"They were telling him you are a spy for the Americans, you are the eyes of the Americans and you are infidel, and we will kill you and your family," his friend and co-worker Abdulhaq Ayoubi told CNN.
As he approached the checkpoint, Pardis put his foot on the accelerator to speed through. He was not seen alive again.
Villagers who witnessed the incident told observers the Taliban shot his car before it swerved and stopped. They then dragged Pardis out of the vehicle and beheaded him.
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Old 5th September 2021, 04:34 PM   #234
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We just had a whole year or so of violent protests based on the premise that police abuses arise from a wholesale institution and culture of bad policing. It was very much a "the government is evil" statement.

And I do seem to remember Abu Ghraib being an indictment of the entire administration and military, top to bottom.
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Old 5th September 2021, 06:26 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
To avoid this kind of catastrophic violence, the best thing to do is to give the Taliban a few things that they like, for example money, or accepting a government position when it is offered:
The Taliban don't kill journalists that irritate them because they haven't been paid protection money.

Oh and as for free speech: The Taliban have been painting over public murals and removing or just destroying any public images (which is a lot, including just about any depiction of a woman) in Kabul.

Naturally they have been replacing them with plain text propaganda messages like: "Don't listen to the enemy's lies about the Mujahideen". The implication is that they are not to listen (or read) anything that portrays them negatively. It's not a suggestion but an order. The Taliban had already prohibited people from doing so in territories where they ruled with an iron fist and journalists certainly did not operate freely (or at all)

Of course they are not going to clamp down and immediately ban everything they disapprove of the very same day they take over. The Taliban are not idiots and they know that they are not omnipotent. Moreover it's utterly naive or outright dishonest to act like The Taliban will suddenly stop acting like repressive tyrants when they have not done so after they have taken territory before.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 5th September 2021 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 5th September 2021, 09:47 PM   #236
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If they do do better than they did the last time they were in charge, that's a nifty bonus. If not, I care no more than I did before we invaded, and no more than anybody here does about any of the other countries where similar behavior goes on. It wasn't a reason to invade then, and it isn't a reason to stay in Afghanistan or invade anywhere else now. So talking about it serves no more purpose than talking about the crappy behavior of any other similarly bad people in any other place & time that nobody talks about... other than if one's goal is to try to depict it as somehow Biden's fault despite the fact that we all know it isn't.
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Old 6th September 2021, 02:55 PM   #237
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Taliban death liberation squads de-colonizing Afghanistan:

Quote:
The Taliban murdered a pregnant policewoman in front of her family on Saturday night, according to her son. Her death, in the central Afghanistan province of Ghor, adds to mounting concerns about the repression of women under the Taliban's rule.

The victim's full name was Negar Masoomi, her sister told CNN. Her killing was also confirmed to CNN by a local journalist in Ghor, who said she worked in Ghor prison and was eight months pregnant when she died.
Quote:
Video obtained by CNN showed her son Mohammad Hanif giving his account of the murder, saying that the Taliban came inside the house where his family lives, then took himself and his brothers outside and tied them up.
"They killed our mother before our eyes. They killed her with a knife," Hanif said.
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Old 7th September 2021, 02:28 PM   #238
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New Taliban government is comosed of hard liners.
This should surprise nobody but the gullible.
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Old 7th September 2021, 03:53 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
If they do do better than they did the last time they were in charge, that's a nifty bonus. If not, I care no more than I did before we invaded, and no more than anybody here does about any of the other countries where similar behavior goes on. It wasn't a reason to invade then, and it isn't a reason to stay in Afghanistan or invade anywhere else now. So talking about it serves no more purpose than talking about the crappy behavior of any other similarly bad people in any other place & time that nobody talks about... other than if one's goal is to try to depict it as somehow Biden's fault despite the fact that we all know it isn't.
This is not an American politics thread. Not everything in the world has to do with your partisan politics.

Someone claimed that the fact a protest took place was evidence that there was freedom of speech and such under the Taliban, which is plainly ridiculous since they crushed two recent protests and falsely accused them of being agents of a foreign country.

Oh and the "inclusive government" the Taliban said they would have? Nowhere to be seen, as expected. They haven't even bothered to include any prominent useful idiot to give even a impression of not taking all power for themselves.

The minister of the interior is even a terrorist wanted by the US and subject to UN sanctions. None of these people have any kind of serious education, experience in running a country. Then again Afghanistan is about to get a whole lot simpler under the Taliban and that's how they prefer it.
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Old 9th September 2021, 03:03 AM   #240
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A view of Afghanistan under the Taliban from on the ground in Kabul.

By a woman.

Al Jazeera reporter Charlotte Bellis has no plans to leave and here's her take, which is a lot more informed than a bunch of keyboard warriors, almost none of whom have set foot in the country: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/l...-her-feel-safe
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