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Old 29th December 2021, 03:09 PM   #161
RolandRat
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post

He is looked up to by many in America because he has been vindicated by the manner he handled himself in the face of clear and present threats.
He ran away.
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Old 29th December 2021, 03:12 PM   #162
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Nope. Right-wingers have lionized Kyle because he got away with killing the evil libruls.
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Old 29th December 2021, 03:28 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Why is he a hero? Because he used the weapon appropriately and within the bounds of law.

He is looked up to by many in America because he has been vindicated by the manner he handled himself in the face of clear and present threats.

The mere presence of this thread in the Forum indicates 'sour grapes' on the part of carlitos, and others.
No, the reasons you give here sound incredibly stupid for labeling someone a hero. It isn't sour grapes, but a realistic response to something that sounds stupid.
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Old 29th December 2021, 03:53 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
He ran away.
The law required he do so in order to maintain/regain his right to use deadly force in self-defense.
(Assuming he had acted in Provocation)
This point has been exhaustively covered in the Trials thread, with the exact wording of the Statute presented more than once.

At the end of January, perhaps a new thread about the Ziminski trial can begin.
Or, more likely, Ziminski will plead out and avoid a public spectacle that would be unduly embarrassing to him and Kelly.

Last edited by webfusion; 29th December 2021 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 29th December 2021, 04:18 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No, the reasons you give here sound incredibly stupid for labeling someone a hero. It isn't sour grapes, but a realistic response to something that sounds stupid.
I don't know what is meant by "sounds stupid" --- I am going by my own personal reference point, namely, when faced with a clear and present danger, and having a weapon at the ready, I've opened fire to stop that threat.

For instance, this incident in Israel earlier this month:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...lem-1.10439408
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Old 29th December 2021, 04:30 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Nope. Right-wingers have lionized Kyle because he got away with killing the evil libruls.
Well, we do know that Rosenbaum was indeed an evil human. Dunno how his political views aligned.

Everyone also understands that the man who died out there on Sheridan Road was on record as threatening to "gut like a pig" his own brother while brandishing a butcher knife during a domestic dispute, and declared his intent to burn down the family home 'with all you ********** in it.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ntly-shot.html
Talk about evil? Kinda fits.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 29th December 2021, 08:52 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
I don't know what is meant by "sounds stupid" --- I am going by my own personal reference point, namely, when faced with a clear and present danger, and having a weapon at the ready, I've opened fire to stop that threat.
]
Which isn't heroic
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Old 29th December 2021, 09:49 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Which isn't heroic.
To many in Israel, it certainly is, and well-regarded.

From the article linked:
"...the Border Police officer who killed this terrorist should be invited to the office of the public security minister to receive a Certificate of Appreciation, as has been done many times in similar situations during the past..."

I know that the circumstances between IDF actions and Kyle Rittenhouse are completely non-aligned, but I can certainly describe his shooting these attackers as an appropriate response under the circumstances he faced and that's mainly why people are proud of him.

From the outset, I joined the discussions here in the Forums because I felt Rittenhouse did what he needed to do, and would be aquitted by the jury.

When he now goes around making these appearances, and is well-received, I completely get it.
=========
A hero? Isn’t that what we call soldiers in combat defending the country, meaning people? He stood up to help and defend against the rioters who had burned part of the city and at only 17 years of age had fortitude to help knowing the danger in doing so, in which the rioters attacked him. I ask, who was to stop the rioting when law enforcement was told to stand down?

A hero? Yes, indeed, in that he had the right to carry and the right to defend himself, which he did. Thank God he survived this terrible ordeal. How many of us would have the fortitude to do what he did? This is the kind of hero that we need to bring this country back from the brink of total collapse. Thank you to Rittenhouse. He is my hero and God bless.

Jean-Rene Long Hartland, Maine
Letter to the Editor -- Bangor Daily News
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Old 29th December 2021, 10:08 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
To many in Israel, it certainly is, and well-regarded.

From the article linked:
"...the Border Police officer who killed this terrorist should be invited to the office of the public security minister to receive a Certificate of Appreciation, as has been done many times in similar situations during the past..."

I know that the circumstances between IDF actions and Kyle Rittenhouse are completely non-aligned, but I can certainly describe his shooting these attackers as an appropriate response under the circumstances he faced and that's mainly why people are proud of him.

From the outset, I joined the discussions here in the Forums because I felt Rittenhouse did what he needed to do, and would be aquitted by the jury.

When he now goes around making these appearances, and is well-received, I completely get it.
=========
A hero? Isn’t that what we call soldiers in combat defending the country, meaning people? He stood up to help and defend against the rioters who had burned part of the city and at only 17 years of age had fortitude to help knowing the danger in doing so, in which the rioters attacked him. I ask, who was to stop the rioting when law enforcement was told to stand down?

A hero? Yes, indeed, in that he had the right to carry and the right to defend himself, which he did. Thank God he survived this terrible ordeal. How many of us would have the fortitude to do what he did? This is the kind of hero that we need to bring this country back from the brink of total collapse. Thank you to Rittenhouse. He is my hero and God bless.

Jean-Rene Long Hartland, Maine
Letter to the Editor -- Bangor Daily News
Rittenhouse isn't a hero. He defended nothing that he didn't put in danger himself. He's the only one coming out with a body count or even a reasonable risk of one. Finding his actions wrong but not illegal is one thing, calling him a hero is evil or insane.
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Old 29th December 2021, 11:49 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
The law required he do so in order to maintain/regain his right to use deadly force in self-defense.
Do you think his motivation for running was to keep his right to use deadly force within the law?
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Old 29th December 2021, 11:50 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
A hero? Isn’t that what we call soldiers in combat defending the country, meaning people?
Comparing this guy to soldiers, is laughable.
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Old 30th December 2021, 06:12 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
A hero? Isn’t that what we call soldiers in combat defending the country, meaning people?
No. Soldiers doing normal soldier stuff is not heroic. That is reserved for exceptional performance. Normal soldiering isnt particularly noble, courageous, or outstanding.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 30th December 2021 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 30th December 2021, 06:46 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Do you think his motivation for running was to keep his right to use deadly force within the law?
His motivation is not important. His actions were. He withdrew and attempted to avoid any further contact with those ambushers. By doing so, he was then able to claim a full right of self-defense as he was pursued and attacked. That is what the jury found, based on the evidence they heard and saw.
Case closed.

As for the 'hero' label -- that is open to debate. In the same media source quoted above (BDN) there is another letter to the editor, saying the complete opposite: "Rittenhouse is not a hero"

And so it goes.
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Old 30th December 2021, 06:55 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Comparing this guy to soldiers, is laughable.
The actual soldiers on the scene did absolutely nothing to stop the rioting. Zip and Pip.
By Aug. 25, a total of 250 troops were on the ground in Kenosha.

Paper tigers.
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Old 30th December 2021, 07:19 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
His motivation is not important.
Seems important if we are talking heroes. There is another thread about medal of honor recipients. If we found out one of the recipients took those actions in an effort to avoid someone uncovering their child porn stash, the idea of them being a hero would probably be impacted.
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Old 30th December 2021, 07:40 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
As it happens, the City Ordinance 11.05 you quoted has an exception--
"This Section shall... not apply in circumstances in which the
minor was exercising First Amendment rights protected by the United States Constitution or the Wisconsin Constitution, including freedom of speech, the free exercise of religion and/or the right of assembly."

Go fish.
This is all just a red herring, as the charge was dismissed and you can't say "He was violating 11.05" because the Kenosha Court found otherwise, sui juris.
That is fascinating and kind of makes me mad. I quoted similar language to an officer as he was arresting me for curfew when I was 15 or 16, and I got thrown in jail. The officer literally taunted me like "oh, you're a lawyer now, you're going to tell us about the Constitution?" I wonder if that type of language existed in the jurisdiction where I lived.

I had 2 or 3 curfew violations on my juvenile record.
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Old 30th December 2021, 07:52 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Seems important if we are talking heroes.
We were actually talking about the impact of the law/statute regarding self-defense.
Specifically, 939.48
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tes/939/iii/48

His stature as a cultural hero is something else altogether.
Some see him as a fiend, or a murderer.
Some see him as an honorable young man, a victim of politics.
Some see him as vindicated. Some see him as requiring a punch in the face (at a minimum).
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Old 30th December 2021, 08:32 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
We were actually talking about the impact of the law/statute regarding self-defense.
Specifically, 939.48
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/sta...tes/939/iii/48
We are not talking about the impact of the same statute that you post over and over and over. If anything, we should be talking about its obvious shortcomings and inadequacy.

Remember how the judge dropped the underage weapons charge because Wisconsin legislators are apparently illiterate? That's how we should be looking at the statute you post over and over and over. With the underage carry fiasco as a barometer, we should assume Wisconsin statutes to have been written by poodles, and any semblance of meaning should be viewed as a fluke.

Yes, that's a little tongue in cheek. Ultimately the problem with such concepts of self defense is that the sense of proportional response is culturally out of whack. Both cops and citizens are being encouraged to be cowardly, and overreact with the ultimate fascist tactic: shoot first, negating all other avenues of defensive action.

With Kyle, the simple defensive move was primarily to not put himself in a situation where he could do nothing to protect, but he prepares for a shootout. Recall that it has been pointed out that he didn't even bring a Mickey Mouse fire extinguisher to the party. He only brought a rifle, and a hand full of borrowed band aids. He brought a cel phone, but as we saw, he refused to call police even as he killed people.

Secondly, he could have stayed with his other play soldiers instead of wandering around pointing a rifle.

Thirdly, when Rosenbaum launched his lethal baggie attack, Kyle could have simply left the area. Instead, he circled back into a lot, stopping repeatedly. That's not retreating. That's maintaining range, when you are holding a rifle.

Quote:
His stature as a cultural hero is something else altogether.
Some see him as a fiend, or a murderer.
Some see him as an honorable young man, a victim of politics.
Some see him as vindicated. Some see him as requiring a punch in the face (at a minimum).
He is a cowardly weakling, in a nation that is more and more leaning towards cowardly overreaction as the justifiable response. Kyle is a fascists wet dream, and everyone who cheers for his killings is cheering for their own fantasies of having the power to pick a fight and shoot your way out of it without a scratch on you. Its freaking disgusting.
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Old 30th December 2021, 09:01 AM   #179
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Thermal, he didn't pick any fight as he came upon the CarSource3 lot -- his goal was to put out the fire blazing in the Duramax SUV. The fire extinguisher he carried would probably have been sufficient.
The ones who 'picked a fight' at that point were 2 violent criminals. One who carried an illegal gun. He will be on trial himself in a few weeks for his own actions there.

I have never cheered for his killings. I have cheered for his succeeding in fending off attackers. Including having the presence of mind to hit the forward-assist button and not allowing his rifle to remain jammed. Most people have never even heard of a forward-assist mechanism, so they don't understand the reference to that quick-thinking recovery action from a malfunction of the AR15.
That single element has fascinated me from day one. I've had it happen to me, and when it does, it's not a good feeling to press the trigger and hear it "click" instead of "bang" --- trust me.

I have no idea what this nation is leaning towards.
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Old 30th December 2021, 10:35 AM   #180
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Meanwhile, this appeared in today's SHEBOYGAN PRESS (opinion by Casey Hoff
for USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin)
https://www.sheboyganpress.com/story...ff/9049381002/

"...we should all strive to be purveyors of truths and accuracy."
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Old 30th December 2021, 10:37 AM   #181
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And the fantasy version continues to roll on. In the wrong thread for it.

Rooting for his cowardice should at least be confined to another thread, as this one is about ongoing adventures, as opposed to reliving his fearful weakness.
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Old 30th December 2021, 11:17 AM   #182
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ongoing adventures...

Nothing in the news today, he's probably just chilling.
This thread here "could be a place where we could discuss what Kyle Rittenhouse is up to" but since he's not up to anything noteworthy, maybe other tangenital items regarding the after-case fallout can be part of the discussion? Or not. We got five pages out of it, without really anything interesting about Kyle's Adventures being posted, so there's that.

I do know that Congressman Jerry Nadler, D-New York has spread false information about the case. (He serves as the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.) -- he repeated the incorrect information about 'crossing state lines with an AR15'

I do know that four protesters have sued the city and county of Kenosha, as they allege the curfews were selectively enforced against protesters. It seeks to be certified as a class action on behalf of all the people cited for curfew violations.

I do know Dominick Black is still in hot water.

I do not know of any ongoing specifics regarding Kyle, so maybe the thread will have to just sit idle until something new pops up on the radar.
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Old 30th December 2021, 11:31 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post

I have no idea what this nation is leaning towards.
From the outside, looking in, it seems you are leaning towards reinstating the monarchy and putting an AR15 on the throne.
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Old 30th December 2021, 02:27 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Well, we do know that Rosenbaum was indeed an evil human. ....
Nonsense. That's just your opinion. Either way, this isn't a "heroic" event. The victims that Kyle shot were not killing people, were not injuring people, or doing any otherwise "evil" acts.

Also, if Kyle was a libral that took a gun to a proud boys gathering, provoked them, and then shot them, I don't believe those of us on the left would be hailing Kyle as a hero. Self-defense is not a heroic event. Provoking violence and then defending one's self is not heroic.
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Old 30th December 2021, 05:46 PM   #185
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thaiboxerken, our world is a better place with the absence of JoJo Rosenbaum.
https://heavy.com/news/criminal-reco...nhouse-victims

Nothing about him is less than the very definition of "evil human" ---
He was a blight upon society.
In my opinion.

I don't know what videos you were watching, but in the ones I viewed, Anthony Huber was indeed engaged in the act of injuring a person --- Kyle Rittenhouse (twice, actually, with his skateboard employed as a deadly weapon). For that, he got a bullet to his chest, and a Darwin Award.

Gaige Grosskreutz? May he live a long and healthy life.
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Old 2nd January 2022, 08:15 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
thaiboxerken, our world is a better place with the absence of JoJo Rosenbaum......
And therefore, the vigilante antics of Kyle are justified....
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Old 3rd January 2022, 06:36 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
And therefore, the vigilante antics of Kyle are justified....
No -- this is just thaiboxerken once more showing that he failed to follow the trial even cursorily.

The justification and aquittal by jury of Kyle Rittenhouse was based on the principle of lawful self-defense against men who had NO LEGITIMATE RIGHTS to attack him, whatsoever.

That's not my opinion. Dem's da facs.

Last edited by webfusion; 3rd January 2022 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 3rd January 2022, 07:18 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Nonsense. That's just your opinion.
Uh... what?

Is violent child rape not evil now?

Quote:
Either way, this isn't a "heroic" event.
OK.

Quote:
The victims that Kyle shot were not killing people, were not injuring people, or doing any otherwise "evil" acts.
Rosenbaum and Huber absolutely were doing evil acts. They just didn't get very far.

Quote:
Also, if Kyle was a libral that took a gun to a proud boys gathering, provoked them
Kyle didn't provoke them.

Quote:
Self-defense is not a heroic event.
Sure. But it's justified.

Quote:
Provoking violence
Again, didn't happen. You're inventing justifications to hate Kyle which don't actually exist.
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Old 3rd January 2022, 06:18 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
His motivation is not important. His actions were. He withdrew and attempted to avoid any further contact with those ambushers. By doing so, he was then able to claim a full right of self-defense as he was pursued and attacked. That is what the jury found, based on the evidence they heard and saw.
Case closed.
Personally, I don't really care about the trial. I'm not American so have no skin in that fight. I followed it out of interest, but having some idea how you guys view your guns, it didn't surprise me he was exonerated.

Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
As for the 'hero' label -- that is open to debate. In the same media source quoted above (BDN) there is another letter to the editor, saying the complete opposite: "Rittenhouse is not a hero"

And so it goes.
Indeed. This is what interests me. Out of curiosity, if Rittenhouse had been a left wing ANTIFA type, who had gone into the Michigan state building on 30th April 2020 and killed several of the protestors there under similar circumstances, would you still consider him a hero?
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Old 4th January 2022, 08:13 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Personally, I don't really care about the trial. I'm not American so have no skin in that fight. I followed it out of interest, but having some idea how you guys view your guns, it didn't surprise me he was exonerated.



Indeed. This is what interests me. Out of curiosity, if Rittenhouse had been a left wing ANTIFA type, who had gone into the Michigan state building on 30th April 2020 and killed several of the protestors there under similar circumstances, would you still consider him a hero?
I'm sure the right-wing would label him an evil person. The thing is, us lefties wouldn't consider him a hero either.
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Old 4th January 2022, 08:47 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I'm sure the right-wing would label him an evil person. The thing is, us lefties wouldn't consider him a hero either.
As it happens, the facts surrounding the type of person that Rosenbaum was, and his actions over many years, result in him being properly DEFINED as an 'evil human' --- not anything to do with his political views.

He was not shot dead because Kyle Rittenhouse considered him an 'evil human' --- Kyle knew only that this man was literally attacking and screaming obscenities at the moment of the fatal encounter, aided by an armed Sasquatch.

As for the example given by RolandRat, the people at the Michigan statehouse were peacefully protesting, in favor of OPENING businesses, not burning them down.

Also, Roland Rat mentions "having some idea how you guys view your guns..." ---- how about NFAC? Do you have some idea about their view on guns? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhFcr9mPBQ
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Old 4th January 2022, 08:50 AM   #192
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Roland is in the UK. By "you guys," he probably meant Americans.
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Old 4th January 2022, 08:52 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
As it happens, the facts surrounding the type of person that Rosenbaum was, and his actions over many years, result in him being properly DEFINED as an 'evil human' --- not anything to do with his political views.

He was not shot dead because Kyle Rittenhouse considered him an 'evil human' --- Kyle knew only that this man was literally attacking and screaming obscenities at the moment of the fatal encounter, aided by an armed Sasquatch.

As for the example given by RolandRat, the people at the Michigan statehouse were peacefully protesting, in favor of OPENING businesses, not burning them down.

Also, Roland Rat mentions "having some idea how you guys view your guns..." ---- how about NFAC? Do you have some idea about their view on guns? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhFcr9mPBQ
Kyle only knew that the opportunity to kill people and get away with it just presented itself, as he intended.
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Old 4th January 2022, 09:34 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Kyle only knew that the opportunity to kill people and get away with it just presented itself, as he intended.
I saw no evidence to that statement of yours at his trial.

Meanwhile, this article regarding the political atmosphere which forms some basis of the current lionization of Rittenhouse:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/next-us-c...100012433.html
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Old 4th January 2022, 09:37 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
I saw no evidence to that statement of yours at his trial.
Of course you didn't....how precious.
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Old 4th January 2022, 07:06 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Of course you didn't....how precious.
I watched the entire thing, from start to finish, and even provided many links here in the Forums.

If you are making a claim about something that was brought forward at the trial, please link to the testimony.
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Old 4th January 2022, 07:45 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Quote:
Kyle only knew that the opportunity to kill people and get away with it just presented itself, as he intended.
Quote:
I saw no evidence to that statement of yours at his trial.
Of course you didn't....how precious.
Well, to be fair... the judge did block the use of the video which showed Rittenhouse wanting to shoot random people leaving a store.

If someone watched only the trial, they would not have seen that.

On the other hand, a rational person who examined ALL the evidence (even stuff available outside the trial, such as the video) would have seen the video and come to the conclusion that yes, Rittenhouse was a wanna-be shooter.
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Old 4th January 2022, 07:56 PM   #198
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I am not sure that video illustrates what you think it illustrates.

I am sure that there's a lot of regular people across this country who would absolutely like to take their firearms and shoot flash-mob looters that they may encounter. Security Guards would probably like to do so, also. Even a lot of cops would love that option, if they're being honest.

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/ame...w-guard-killed
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Old 4th January 2022, 09:48 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
I am not sure that video illustrates what you think it illustrates.

I am sure that there's a lot of regular people across this country who would absolutely like to take their firearms and shoot flash-mob looters that they may encounter. Security Guards would probably like to do so, also. Even a lot of cops would love that option, if they're being honest.

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/ame...w-guard-killed
And if any of these make believe people actually did shoot someone after previously saying they wanted to do so on video it might be used to show intent. The defense attorneys did their jobs well in having that thrown out.
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Old 4th January 2022, 09:59 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
I am not sure that video illustrates what you think it illustrates.

I am sure that there's a lot of regular people across this country who would absolutely like to take their firearms and shoot flash-mob looters that they may encounter. Security Guards would probably like to do so, also. Even a lot of cops would love that option, if they're being honest.

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/ame...w-guard-killed
And that's the whole gig in a nutshell. We have people with fascist fantasies of shooting Americans in the streets with impunity.
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