Ongoing Adventures of Kyle Rittenhouse - Page 6

webfusion · 4th January 2022, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

And if any of these make believe people actually did shoot someone after previously saying they wanted to do so on video it might be used to show intent. The defense attorneys did their jobs well in having that thrown out.

My comment was: "I saw no evidence to that statement of yours at his trial."

That is a true statement. It was in reference to this:
"Kyle only knew that the opportunity to kill people and get away with it just presented itself, as he intended."

The opportunity to kill people presented itself because Kyle Rittenhouse was being attacked.
Not because he was intending to kill people in any premeditated fashion (i.e.- murder).

This thread is not about the various legal aspects, per se, but about the social ramifications, and "Adventures" of Kyle Rittenhouse, post-trial. Kyle is not out there in the streets of America, seeking to shoot anyone. I am firmly convinced he was not in the streets of Kenosha in August 2020 aiming or intending to shoot anyone, either. (that is his testimony from the stand, by the way).
But, his actions are seen as valuable in the overall rights of Americans to protect themselves, their possessions, and their fellow Americans, from lawless and criminal behaviors. I believe this is the lesson being taken and embraced by millions from his case.

This story, for instance -- which refers to the Lyft driver carrying a weapon, and him using it while preventing an attack upon himself as his property is being stolen.
https://www.centredaily.com/news/sta...257036622.html
If the rideshare driver had previously videotaped himself saying "Any ************* try to mess with me, they're gonna be shot..." it would not matter. Or are you claiming it would, mgidm86?

webfusion · 4th January 2022, 10:26 PM

Follow-Up/Addendum to the above posting:
https://news.yahoo.com/midwestern-gr...194656324.html
A Midwestern grocery chain is rolling out its own armed security force to act as a 'visual deterrent' to retail crime.

In other words, exactly what Kyle Rittenhouse was doing, acting as a 'visual deterrent' to perpetrators of crimes.

"We're there to be an extension of our legendary customer service within Hy-Vee to ensure the safety of our customers and our employees."

So, 30 thieves arrive as a flash mob, run into the store, start filling shopping carts with steaks, lobsters, crab legs, deli meats, expensive cosmetics, etc. and these armed men will do what, exactly? Am I to understand they will just stand aside, because their visual deterrence has failed?

mgidm86 · 5th January 2022, 09:12 PM

forget it why bother

webfusion · 5th January 2022, 09:42 PM

The word is getting out -- criminals will be shot.

https://lmtribune.com/northwest/secu...02c6dc137.html

and

https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...n-diego-ralphs

and others....

Ziggurat · 5th January 2022, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Well, to be fair... the judge did block the use of the video which showed Rittenhouse wanting to shoot random people leaving a store.

That there is a lie.

Why did you lie?

plague311 · 6th January 2022, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

That there is a lie.

Why did you lie?

Did Rittenhouse ******* know the people in the video? Had he met them? Were they friends? Did they have dinner together?

If he didn't personally know them, then they were random to Kyle. Jesus Christ. If there's a way to split a hair, trust you to find it.

Ziggurat · 6th January 2022, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Did Rittenhouse ******* know the people in the video? Had he met them? Were they friends? Did they have dinner together?

If he didn't personally know them, then they were random to Kyle. Jesus Christ. If there's a way to split a hair, trust you to find it.

Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected.

RolandRat · 6th January 2022, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected.

You could also say Rittenhouse selected them by going to a place where he could shoot such people. You know, like he professed he wanted to do.

Ziggurat · 6th January 2022, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by RolandRat

You could also say Rittenhouse selected them by going to a place where he could shoot such people.

Who exactly is "them" in this sentence? You seem to be conflating different events and different people.

RolandRat · 6th January 2022, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

You seem to be conflating different events and different people.

And you would be absolutely correct. That's what I get for speed reading first thing in the morning. I'll need to try and remember to engage brain before keyboard in future.

webfusion · 6th January 2022, 06:23 PM

AFAIK, the individuals in the aforementioned video (the cameraperson was not Kyle, apparently, with Kyle's voice-over in the background as he was a passenger in that car) appeared to be looters at a Walgreens.

So, the 'random' people were allegedly thieves. Millions of people across this nation are fed up with this ongoing activity, to the extent that they want to see looters shot on sight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7M9w3500Lw

Roger Ramjets · 6th January 2022, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Millions of people across this nation are fed up with this ongoing activity, to the extent that they want to see looters shot on sight.

Millions of Americans hate the Constitution? Sounds about right.

As someone who hates America myself, I welcome the opportunity to shoot looters on sight - starting with...

Segnosaur · 6th January 2022, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

AFAIK, the individuals in the aforementioned video (the cameraperson was not Kyle, apparently, with Kyle's voice-over in the background as he was a passenger in that car) appeared to be looters at a Walgreens.

So, the 'random' people were allegedly thieves.

In the video, one person is seen leaving the store at a fast pace. The next few (the ones he would have seen when he talked about shooting them) were strolling out of the store at a normal pace. People were carrying shopping bags (i.e. not carrying stuff out of the store in their hands.).

If someone looks at that and assumes "looters" then they have a severe comprehension problems, and should be locked up because they should not be trusted to act rationally.

Segnosaur · 6th January 2022, 07:47 PM

Re: Rittenhouse shooting "Random" people....

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected.

Self-selected... by shopping at a particular store?

Characteristics like "carrying stuff in a shopping bag, like someone might be expected to do if they just purchased something"?

Was there a sign in the window: "All people leaving this store are assumed to be shop lifters"? Did the owner run out earlier shouting "I'm being robbed"? Was there some newspaper ad telling people "This store is great for robbing"?

I've seen the video. Doesn't look all that different than what you might see at many stores.... people walking out, carrying shopping bags.

webfusion · 7th January 2022, 01:33 AM

Watching that shaky and blurry video myself, it sure looks to me like a group of organized looters/shoplifters, making off with their haul. They waltz in, grab whatever stuff they want (mostly cosmetics, and other smaller high-ticket items like razor blades, condoms, and other what-not & sundries that can be traded easily for cash in the 'hood) and walk right out, brazenly, with bags loaded. I have witnessed it first-hand at a local Walmart. These 'shoplifters' don't have a care in the world; after loading up their shopping carts, they just push 'em right out the door, looking at the paying customers with an air of contempt and a smirk.
(The local Walmart and an oft-robbed/looted Target have both closed their doors for good, deciding that their exposure to such rampant thievery was not worthwhile for them).

That is what seems to be depicted in the video referenced.
You are free to snidely doubt those circumstances (which has been happening across the USA), but it is what it is.

carlitos · 7th January 2022, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Watching that shaky and blurry video myself, it sure looks to me like a group of organized looters/shoplifters, making off with their haul. They waltz in, grab whatever stuff they want (mostly cosmetics, and other smaller high-ticket items like razor blades, condoms, and other what-not & sundries that can be traded easily for cash in the 'hood) and walk right out, brazenly, with bags loaded. I have witnessed it first-hand at a local Walmart. These 'shoplifters' don't have a care in the world; after loading up their shopping carts, they just push 'em right out the door, looking at the paying customers with an air of contempt and a smirk.
(The local Walmart and an oft-robbed/looted Target have both closed their doors for good, deciding that their exposure to such rampant thievery was not worthwhile for them).

I don't believe any of this.

plague311 · 7th January 2022, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected.

Give it up, Zigg. This is garbage rationalization, even for the right. There was absolutely no evidence at all that they were stealing anything. Who the **** puts stolen goods in Target bags? Why would you walk to your car if you stole something instead of having someone meet you at the door? Seriously, I'm no ******* Batman, but this is just common sense.

This is the problem with this gun fantasy, I'm a protector of Target, I know "teh trewth about teh world", nonsensical ********. Rittenhouse just made up a scenario in his head and was already at the "they deserve to die" endgame. That people on a skeptics forum would leap to the same conclusion is ******* disturbing on several levels. Scary even. Seriously, get a grip.

plague311 · 7th January 2022, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by carlitos

I don't believe any of this.

I can't imagine why anyone would believe it. This anecdotal nonsense about how the U.S. is turning into some barren wasteland where only idiots roaming the streets with guns, shooting random shoppers, is the way to go is complete ********. None of what he said happened, it's a scenario he concocted because there's no way to refute it.

Ziggurat · 7th January 2022, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Self-selected... by shopping at a particular store?

No. By shoplifting.

Quote:

I've seen the video.

That's nice. The video doesn't show everything the people there saw.

Thermal · 7th January 2022, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I can't imagine why anyone would believe it. This anecdotal nonsense about how the U.S. is turning into some barren wasteland where only idiots roaming the streets with guns, shooting random shoppers, is the way to go is complete ********. None of what he said happened, it's a scenario he concocted because there's no way to refute it.

That's what the Saga of Captain Kyle is all about. It has dead zero to do with self defense, and everything to do with the far-right fascist fantasy of putting yourself in a crowd of people you don't like and shooting your way out with legal impunity. It's a coward's wet dream.

plague311 · 7th January 2022, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

No. By shoplifting.

Then you obviously have evidence they were shoplifting, right? You know this for sure, I assume. That's why you're defending Kyle.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

That's nice. The video doesn't show everything the people there saw.

Ok, so what did the people there see? Not Kyle, we can't trust him. Please link me to the news articles or details that show multiple people on-site, at that time, also said these people were shoplifting. If you can't provide that then you'll have to just retract this claim as made up ********.

plague311 · 7th January 2022, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

That's what the Saga of Captain Kyle is all about. It has dead zero to do with self defense, and everything to do with the far-right fascist fantasy of putting yourself in a crowd of people you don't like and shooting your way out with legal impunity. It's a coward's wet dream.

I am extremely confident in saying that I agree with whomever said it upthread that at some point the grandeur of this situation is going to fade for Kyle. It's going to cause him to do something stupid to re-up the attention he now needs to have his ego stroked the way it has been. I have no doubts he'll put himself in a situation like this again, only to have it not work out the same.

I would be shocked if, should there be more BLM protests\riots in some random part of the country, Kyle will show up with gun in hand in hopes to recreate this situation.

webfusion · 7th January 2022, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

I don't believe any of this.

(Note: Walmart loses approximately $3-billion every year as a result of theft!)

https://www.valleynewslive.com/conte...567743701.html

What is it you don't believe? That people waltz in and just take what they want and leave, nonchalantly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw

webfusion · 7th January 2022, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by plague311

*snip*

I would be shocked if, should there be more BLM protests\riots in some random part of the country, Kyle will show up with gun in hand in hopes to recreate this situation.

You meant to type "I wouldn't be shocked if..." -- right?

gabeygoat · 8th January 2022, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

The word is getting out -- criminals will be shot.

https://lmtribune.com/northwest/secu...02c6dc137.html

and

https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...n-diego-ralphs

and others....

I used to live a couple of blocks from that Ralph’s. If I knew there was a possibility of bullets flying whenever there’s shoplifting, I’d stop shopping there.

A: I don’t think people should die for shoplifting. B: I don’t feel like putting myself at risk of stray bullets

Bob001 · 8th January 2022, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

(Note: Walmart loses approximately $3-billion every year as a result of theft!)

https://www.valleynewslive.com/conte...567743701.html

What is it you don't believe? That people waltz in and just take what they want and leave, nonchalantly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw

I think we recognize that shoplifting occurs. So what? The question on the table is whether a teenage vigilante should be empowered to open fire on persons he suspects of shoplifting, or should be encouraged to imagine such behavior is okay. What businesses choose to do about shoplifting, whether locking up valuable goods, hiring security guards or installing monitored cameras, has nothing to do with Rittenhouse.

webfusion · 8th January 2022, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

I think we recognize that shoplifting occurs. So what? The question on the table is whether a teenage vigilante should be empowered to open fire on persons he suspects of shoplifting, or should be encouraged to imagine such behavior is okay. What businesses choose to do about shoplifting, whether locking up valuable goods, hiring security guards or installing monitored cameras, has nothing to do with Rittenhouse.

Like I said, millions of Americans would like nothing better than to be allowed to open fire at the outlaws preying on communities, in furtherance of their opinion that these thugs need to be 'taught a lesson' and not permitted to run rampant in their criminality.

https://ktar.com/story/4722356/woman...avated-assault

and

https://www.actionnews5.com/2021/12/...ing-shoplifter

thaiboxerken · 8th January 2022, 06:03 PM

Vigilantism is what the righties are advocating for, especially if they are people of color or if they protest the killing of people of color. Webfusion and other righties in the thread made that very clear.

webfusion · 9th January 2022, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

Vigilantism is what the righties are advocating for, especially if they are people of color or if they protest the killing of people of color. Webfusion and other righties in the thread made that very clear.

People of color? How did you create that strawperson?

I am talking about outlaws -- criminals -- and the Kyle Rittenhouse trial did not involve 'people of color' anyway. Not a damned thing.
(the only 'person of color' individual shot at by Kyle did not get fully identified in court and remained known only as "JumpKickMan"-- Maurice Freeland, a guy with lots of run-ins with cops for his unruly and anti-social behaviors).

Meanwhile: https://www.yahoo.com/news/supermark...040142620.html
Are you paying attention, plague311 & carlitos?

dann · 9th January 2022, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

People of color? How did you create that strawperson?

I am talking about outlaws -- criminals -- and the Kyle Rittenhouse trial did not involve 'people of color' anyway. Not a damned thing.
(the only 'person of color' individual shot at by Kyle did not get fully identified in court and remained known only as "JumpKickMan"-- Maurice Freeland, a guy with lots of run-ins with cops for his unruly and anti-social behaviors).

Meanwhile: https://www.yahoo.com/news/supermark...040142620.html
Are you paying attention, plague311 & carlitos?

"... or if they protest the killing of people of color."
The shootings occurred during the protests, riots, and civil unrest that followed the non-fatal shooting of a black man, Jacob Blake, by a white police officer.
Are you paying attention, webfusion?

Bob001 · 9th January 2022, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Like I said, millions of Americans would like nothing better than to be allowed to open fire at the outlaws preying on communities, in furtherance of their opinion that these thugs need to be 'taught a lesson' and not permitted to run rampant in their criminality.
....

And those "millions of Americans" would be textbook examples of vigilantes deserving prosecution and punishment to the fullest extent of the law, as were the criminals cited in your links.

webfusion · 9th January 2022, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by dann

"... or if they protest the killing of people of color."
The shootings occurred during the protests, riots, and civil unrest that followed the non-fatal shooting of a black man, Jacob Blake, by a white police officer.
Are you paying attention, webfusion?

I saw that the shootings occured during RIOTING, yes.
Rioting is not legal protest. It is NOT constitutionally-protected activity.
The trial was specifically about an armed ambush, and then further illegal attacks, against Kyle.
In circumstances where he had every right to be.

webfusion · 9th January 2022, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Bob001

And those "millions of Americans" would be textbook examples of vigilantes deserving prosecution and punishment to the fullest extent of the law, as were the criminals cited in your links.

People across this nation are requesting the laws be changed to permit it.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...rce-_172777330

Perhaps Kyle Rittenhouse can step into this debate, and become a powerful voice for those changes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_t...hooting_starts

webfusion · 9th January 2022, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

I used to live a couple of blocks from that Ralph’s. If I knew there was a possibility of bullets flying whenever there’s shoplifting, I’d stop shopping there.

A: I don’t think people should die for shoplifting. B: I don’t feel like putting myself at risk of stray bullets

I recall a visit to the Philippines. In front of many retail establishments and malls and nightclubs, were security men armed with shotguns at the ready, protecting against robberies of the cash.

sackett · 9th January 2022, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

People across this nation are requesting the laws be changed to permit it.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...rce-_172777330

Perhaps Kyle Rittenhouse can step into this debate, and become a powerful voice for those changes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_t...hooting_starts

Woweee! Acrost the nation! Floridia, anyway. Soon the world some folks yearn for will become real, and righteous gunfire will ring out louder than the bells of freedumb!

Gosh, maybe even -- it could happen -- Karl Herrenvolk himself will give you a kiss.

A bloody kiss from the wishing well.

webfusion · 9th January 2022, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by sackett

Woweee! Acrost the nation! Floridia, anyway. Soon the world some folks yearn for will become real, and righteous gunfire will ring out louder than the bells of freedumb!

Gosh, maybe even -- it could happen -- Karl Herrenvolk himself will give you a kiss.

A bloody kiss from the wishing well.

Took six pages, but Godwin's Law finally came into play.

sackett · 9th January 2022, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

Took six pages, but Godwin's Law finally came into play.

I hope that brings you some relief.

gabeygoat · 9th January 2022, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by webfusion

I recall a visit to the Philippines. In front of many retail establishments and malls and nightclubs, were security men armed with shotguns at the ready, protecting against robberies of the cash.

Sounds lovely?

jeremyp · 10th January 2022, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

People across this nation are requesting the laws be changed to permit it.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...rce-_172777330

Perhaps Kyle Rittenhouse can step into this debate, and become a powerful voice for those changes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_t...hooting_starts

I honestly don't understand how you can read the first few paragraphs of that article you linked - that describe what would be a murder in any civilised jurisdiction - and still think your vigilante ideas are anything other than utter ****.

autumn1971 · 10th January 2022, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by webfusion

People across this nation are requesting the laws be changed to permit it.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...rce-_172777330

Perhaps Kyle Rittenhouse can step into this debate, and become a powerful voice for those changes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_t...hooting_starts

Those people are psychopaths, and I reserve the right to shoot them on sight to protect my countrymen.

They’re also usually racist *****, so no harm no foul

4th January 2022, 10:06 PM	#201
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by mgidm86 And if any of these make believe people actually did shoot someone after previously saying they wanted to do so on video it might be used to show intent. The defense attorneys did their jobs well in having that thrown out. My comment was: "I saw no evidence to that statement of yours at his trial." That is a true statement. It was in reference to this: "Kyle only knew that the opportunity to kill people and get away with it just presented itself, as he intended." The opportunity to kill people presented itself because Kyle Rittenhouse was being attacked. Not because he was intending to kill people in any premeditated fashion (i.e.- murder). This thread is not about the various legal aspects, per se, but about the social ramifications, and "Adventures" of Kyle Rittenhouse, post-trial. Kyle is not out there in the streets of America, seeking to shoot anyone. I am firmly convinced he was not in the streets of Kenosha in August 2020 aiming or intending to shoot anyone, either. (that is his testimony from the stand, by the way). But, his actions are seen as valuable in the overall rights of Americans to protect themselves, their possessions, and their fellow Americans, from lawless and criminal behaviors. I believe this is the lesson being taken and embraced by millions from his case. This story, for instance -- which refers to the Lyft driver carrying a weapon, and him using it while preventing an attack upon himself as his property is being stolen. https://www.centredaily.com/news/sta...257036622.html If the rideshare driver had previously videotaped himself saying "Any ************* try to mess with me, they're gonna be shot..." it would not matter. Or are you claiming it would, mgidm86?
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Last edited by webfusion; 4th January 2022 at 10:13 PM.

4th January 2022, 10:26 PM	#202
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Follow-Up/Addendum to the above posting: https://news.yahoo.com/midwestern-gr...194656324.html A Midwestern grocery chain is rolling out its own armed security force to act as a 'visual deterrent' to retail crime. In other words, exactly what Kyle Rittenhouse was doing, acting as a 'visual deterrent' to perpetrators of crimes. "We're there to be an extension of our legendary customer service within Hy-Vee to ensure the safety of our customers and our employees." So, 30 thieves arrive as a flash mob, run into the store, start filling shopping carts with steaks, lobsters, crab legs, deli meats, expensive cosmetics, etc. and these armed men will do what, exactly? Am I to understand they will just stand aside, because their visual deterrence has failed?
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

5th January 2022, 09:12 PM	#203
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,890	forget it why bother
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 7,890	__________________ Thanks and bye. Last edited by mgidm86; 5th January 2022 at 09:36 PM.

5th January 2022, 09:42 PM	#204
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	The word is getting out -- criminals will be shot. https://lmtribune.com/northwest/secu...02c6dc137.html and https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...n-diego-ralphs and others....
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

5th January 2022, 10:15 PM	#205
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,938	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Well, to be fair... the judge did block the use of the video which showed Rittenhouse wanting to shoot random people leaving a store. That there is a lie. Why did you lie?
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

6th January 2022, 10:22 AM	#206
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,966	Originally Posted by Ziggurat That there is a lie. Why did you lie? Did Rittenhouse ******* know the people in the video? Had he met them? Were they friends? Did they have dinner together? If he didn't personally know them, then they were random to Kyle. Jesus Christ. If there's a way to split a hair, trust you to find it.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th January 2022, 11:45 AM	#207
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,938	Originally Posted by plague311 Did Rittenhouse ******* know the people in the video? Had he met them? Were they friends? Did they have dinner together? If he didn't personally know them, then they were random to Kyle. Jesus Christ. If there's a way to split a hair, trust you to find it. Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

6th January 2022, 11:49 AM	#208
RolandRat Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Essex UK Posts: 1,477	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected. You could also say Rittenhouse selected them by going to a place where he could shoot such people. You know, like he professed he wanted to do.

6th January 2022, 12:41 PM	#209
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,938	Originally Posted by RolandRat You could also say Rittenhouse selected them by going to a place where he could shoot such people. Who exactly is "them" in this sentence? You seem to be conflating different events and different people.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

6th January 2022, 04:33 PM	#210
RolandRat Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Essex UK Posts: 1,477	Originally Posted by Ziggurat You seem to be conflating different events and different people. And you would be absolutely correct. That's what I get for speed reading first thing in the morning. I'll need to try and remember to engage brain before keyboard in future.

6th January 2022, 06:23 PM	#211
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	AFAIK, the individuals in the aforementioned video (the cameraperson was not Kyle, apparently, with Kyle's voice-over in the background as he was a passenger in that car) appeared to be looters at a Walgreens. So, the 'random' people were allegedly thieves. Millions of people across this nation are fed up with this ongoing activity, to the extent that they want to see looters shot on sight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7M9w3500Lw
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

6th January 2022, 07:05 PM	#212
Roger Ramjets Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,880	Originally Posted by webfusion Millions of people across this nation are fed up with this ongoing activity, to the extent that they want to see looters shot on sight. Millions of Americans hate the Constitution? Sounds about right. As someone who hates America myself, I welcome the opportunity to shoot looters on sight - starting with...
	__________________ We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.

6th January 2022, 07:42 PM	#213
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 18,918	Originally Posted by webfusion AFAIK, the individuals in the aforementioned video (the cameraperson was not Kyle, apparently, with Kyle's voice-over in the background as he was a passenger in that car) appeared to be looters at a Walgreens. So, the 'random' people were allegedly thieves. In the video, one person is seen leaving the store at a fast pace. The next few (the ones he would have seen when he talked about shooting them) were strolling out of the store at a normal pace. People were carrying shopping bags (i.e. not carrying stuff out of the store in their hands.). If someone looks at that and assumes "looters" then they have a severe comprehension problems, and should be locked up because they should not be trusted to act rationally.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

6th January 2022, 07:47 PM	#214
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 18,918	Re: Rittenhouse shooting "Random" people.... Originally Posted by Ziggurat Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected. Self-selected... by shopping at a particular store? Characteristics like "carrying stuff in a shopping bag, like someone might be expected to do if they just purchased something"? Was there a sign in the window: "All people leaving this store are assumed to be shop lifters"? Did the owner run out earlier shouting "I'm being robbed"? Was there some newspaper ad telling people "This store is great for robbing"? I've seen the video. Doesn't look all that different than what you might see at many stores.... people walking out, carrying shopping bags.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

7th January 2022, 01:33 AM	#215
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Watching that shaky and blurry video myself, it sure looks to me like a group of organized looters/shoplifters, making off with their haul. They waltz in, grab whatever stuff they want (mostly cosmetics, and other smaller high-ticket items like razor blades, condoms, and other what-not & sundries that can be traded easily for cash in the 'hood) and walk right out, brazenly, with bags loaded. I have witnessed it first-hand at a local Walmart. These 'shoplifters' don't have a care in the world; after loading up their shopping carts, they just push 'em right out the door, looking at the paying customers with an air of contempt and a smirk. (The local Walmart and an oft-robbed/looted Target have both closed their doors for good, deciding that their exposure to such rampant thievery was not worthwhile for them). That is what seems to be depicted in the video referenced. You are free to snidely doubt those circumstances (which has been happening across the USA), but it is what it is.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

7th January 2022, 09:14 AM	#216
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA! USA! Posts: 24,384	Originally Posted by webfusion Watching that shaky and blurry video myself, it sure looks to me like a group of organized looters/shoplifters, making off with their haul. They waltz in, grab whatever stuff they want (mostly cosmetics, and other smaller high-ticket items like razor blades, condoms, and other what-not & sundries that can be traded easily for cash in the 'hood) and walk right out, brazenly, with bags loaded. I have witnessed it first-hand at a local Walmart. These 'shoplifters' don't have a care in the world; after loading up their shopping carts, they just push 'em right out the door, looking at the paying customers with an air of contempt and a smirk. (The local Walmart and an oft-robbed/looted Target have both closed their doors for good, deciding that their exposure to such rampant thievery was not worthwhile for them). I don't believe any of this.

7th January 2022, 09:22 AM	#217
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,966	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Yeah, no. They were not random. There were some very specific characteristics in play, which none of your questions address. You could even say that they were self-selected. Give it up, Zigg. This is garbage rationalization, even for the right. There was absolutely no evidence at all that they were stealing anything. Who the ** puts stolen goods in Target bags? Why would you walk to your car if you stole something instead of having someone meet you at the door? Seriously, I'm no *** Batman, but this is just common sense. This is the problem with this gun fantasy, I'm a protector of Target, I know "teh trewth about teh world", nonsensical ****. Rittenhouse just made up a scenario in his head and was already at the "they deserve to die" endgame. That people on a skeptics forum would leap to the same conclusion is ***** disturbing on several levels. Scary even. Seriously, get a grip.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss Last edited by plague311; 7th January 2022 at 09:23 AM.

7th January 2022, 09:23 AM	#218
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,966	Originally Posted by carlitos I don't believe any of this. I can't imagine why anyone would believe it. This anecdotal nonsense about how the U.S. is turning into some barren wasteland where only idiots roaming the streets with guns, shooting random shoppers, is the way to go is complete ********. None of what he said happened, it's a scenario he concocted because there's no way to refute it.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

7th January 2022, 11:10 AM	#219
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 51,938	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Self-selected... by shopping at a particular store? No. By shoplifting. Quote: I've seen the video. That's nice. The video doesn't show everything the people there saw.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

7th January 2022, 11:19 AM	#220
Thermal Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: East Coast USA (in the Troll Ignoring Section) Posts: 19,504	Originally Posted by plague311 I can't imagine why anyone would believe it. This anecdotal nonsense about how the U.S. is turning into some barren wasteland where only idiots roaming the streets with guns, shooting random shoppers, is the way to go is complete ********. None of what he said happened, it's a scenario he concocted because there's no way to refute it. That's what the Saga of Captain Kyle is all about. It has dead zero to do with self defense, and everything to do with the far-right fascist fantasy of putting yourself in a crowd of people you don't like and shooting your way out with legal impunity. It's a coward's wet dream.
	__________________ We find comfort among those who agree with us, growth among those who don't -Frank A. Clark Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect -Mark Twain

7th January 2022, 02:09 PM	#221
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,966	Originally Posted by Ziggurat No. By shoplifting. Then you obviously have evidence they were shoplifting, right? You know this for sure, I assume. That's why you're defending Kyle. Originally Posted by Ziggurat That's nice. The video doesn't show everything the people there saw. Ok, so what did the people there see? Not Kyle, we can't trust him. Please link me to the news articles or details that show multiple people on-site, at that time, also said these people were shoplifting. If you can't provide that then you'll have to just retract this claim as made up ********.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

7th January 2022, 02:12 PM	#222
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 12,966	Originally Posted by Thermal That's what the Saga of Captain Kyle is all about. It has dead zero to do with self defense, and everything to do with the far-right fascist fantasy of putting yourself in a crowd of people you don't like and shooting your way out with legal impunity. It's a coward's wet dream. I am extremely confident in saying that I agree with whomever said it upthread that at some point the grandeur of this situation is going to fade for Kyle. It's going to cause him to do something stupid to re-up the attention he now needs to have his ego stroked the way it has been. I have no doubts he'll put himself in a situation like this again, only to have it not work out the same. I would be shocked if, should there be more BLM protests\riots in some random part of the country, Kyle will show up with gun in hand in hopes to recreate this situation.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

7th January 2022, 07:45 PM	#223
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by carlitos I don't believe any of this. (Note: Walmart loses approximately $3-billion every year as a result of theft!) https://www.valleynewslive.com/conte...567743701.html What is it you don't believe? That people waltz in and just take what they want and leave, nonchalantly? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Last edited by webfusion; 7th January 2022 at 07:46 PM.

7th January 2022, 07:48 PM	#224
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by plague311 snip I would be shocked if, should there be more BLM protests\riots in some random part of the country, Kyle will show up with gun in hand in hopes to recreate this situation. You meant to type "I wouldn't be shocked if..." -- right?
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

8th January 2022, 04:07 PM	#225
gabeygoat Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Hard Corvallis Oregon Posts: 1,564	Originally Posted by webfusion The word is getting out -- criminals will be shot. https://lmtribune.com/northwest/secu...02c6dc137.html and https://www.10news.com/news/local-ne...n-diego-ralphs and others.... I used to live a couple of blocks from that Ralph’s. If I knew there was a possibility of bullets flying whenever there’s shoplifting, I’d stop shopping there. A: I don’t think people should die for shoplifting. B: I don’t feel like putting myself at risk of stray bullets
	__________________ "May I interest you in some coconut milk?" ~Akhenaten Wallabe Esq

8th January 2022, 04:28 PM	#226
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,622	Originally Posted by webfusion (Note: Walmart loses approximately $3-billion every year as a result of theft!) https://www.valleynewslive.com/conte...567743701.html What is it you don't believe? That people waltz in and just take what they want and leave, nonchalantly? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEuoSmW4DRw I think we recognize that shoplifting occurs. So what? The question on the table is whether a teenage vigilante should be empowered to open fire on persons he suspects of shoplifting, or should be encouraged to imagine such behavior is okay. What businesses choose to do about shoplifting, whether locking up valuable goods, hiring security guards or installing monitored cameras, has nothing to do with Rittenhouse.

8th January 2022, 06:02 PM	#227
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by Bob001 I think we recognize that shoplifting occurs. So what? The question on the table is whether a teenage vigilante should be empowered to open fire on persons he suspects of shoplifting, or should be encouraged to imagine such behavior is okay. What businesses choose to do about shoplifting, whether locking up valuable goods, hiring security guards or installing monitored cameras, has nothing to do with Rittenhouse. Like I said, millions of Americans would like nothing better than to be allowed to open fire at the outlaws preying on communities, in furtherance of their opinion that these thugs need to be 'taught a lesson' and not permitted to run rampant in their criminality. https://ktar.com/story/4722356/woman...avated-assault and https://www.actionnews5.com/2021/12/...ing-shoplifter
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

8th January 2022, 06:03 PM	#228
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 32,188	Vigilantism is what the righties are advocating for, especially if they are people of color or if they protest the killing of people of color. Webfusion and other righties in the thread made that very clear.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

9th January 2022, 06:59 AM	#229
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken Vigilantism is what the righties are advocating for, especially if they are people of color or if they protest the killing of people of color. Webfusion and other righties in the thread made that very clear. People of color? How did you create that strawperson? I am talking about outlaws -- criminals -- and the Kyle Rittenhouse trial did not involve 'people of color' anyway. Not a damned thing. (the only 'person of color' individual shot at by Kyle did not get fully identified in court and remained known only as "JumpKickMan"-- Maurice Freeland, a guy with lots of run-ins with cops for his unruly and anti-social behaviors). Meanwhile: https://www.yahoo.com/news/supermark...040142620.html Are you paying attention, plague311 & carlitos?
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

9th January 2022, 07:23 AM	#230
dann Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 16,689	Originally Posted by webfusion People of color? How did you create that strawperson? I am talking about outlaws -- criminals -- and the Kyle Rittenhouse trial did not involve 'people of color' anyway. Not a damned thing. (the only 'person of color' individual shot at by Kyle did not get fully identified in court and remained known only as "JumpKickMan"-- Maurice Freeland, a guy with lots of run-ins with cops for his unruly and anti-social behaviors). Meanwhile: https://www.yahoo.com/news/supermark...040142620.html Are you paying attention, plague311 & carlitos? "... or if they protest the killing of people of color." The shootings occurred during the protests, riots, and civil unrest that followed the non-fatal shooting of a black man, Jacob Blake, by a white police officer. Are you paying attention, webfusion?
	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

9th January 2022, 07:30 AM	#231
Bob001 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: US of A Posts: 15,622	Originally Posted by webfusion Like I said, millions of Americans would like nothing better than to be allowed to open fire at the outlaws preying on communities, in furtherance of their opinion that these thugs need to be 'taught a lesson' and not permitted to run rampant in their criminality. .... And those "millions of Americans" would be textbook examples of vigilantes deserving prosecution and punishment to the fullest extent of the law, as were the criminals cited in your links.

9th January 2022, 08:12 AM	#232
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by dann "... or if they protest the killing of people of color." The shootings occurred during the protests, riots, and civil unrest that followed the non-fatal shooting of a black man, Jacob Blake, by a white police officer. Are you paying attention, webfusion? I saw that the shootings occured during RIOTING, yes. Rioting is not legal protest. It is NOT constitutionally-protected activity. The trial was specifically about an armed ambush, and then further illegal attacks, against Kyle. In circumstances where he had every right to be.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

9th January 2022, 08:18 AM	#233
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by Bob001 And those "millions of Americans" would be textbook examples of vigilantes deserving prosecution and punishment to the fullest extent of the law, as were the criminals cited in your links. People across this nation are requesting the laws be changed to permit it. https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...rce-_172777330 Perhaps Kyle Rittenhouse can step into this debate, and become a powerful voice for those changes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_t...hooting_starts
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Last edited by webfusion; 9th January 2022 at 08:20 AM.

9th January 2022, 08:26 AM	#234
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009	Originally Posted by gabeygoat I used to live a couple of blocks from that Ralph’s. If I knew there was a possibility of bullets flying whenever there’s shoplifting, I’d stop shopping there. A: I don’t think people should die for shoplifting. B: I don’t feel like putting myself at risk of stray bullets I recall a visit to the Philippines. In front of many retail establishments and malls and nightclubs, were security men armed with shotguns at the ready, protecting against robberies of the cash.
webfusion Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,009

9th January 2022, 10:00 AM	#235
sackett Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 7,623	Originally Posted by webfusion People across this nation are requesting the laws be changed to permit it. https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...rce-_172777330 Perhaps Kyle Rittenhouse can step into this debate, and become a powerful voice for those changes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_t...hooting_starts Woweee! Acrost the nation! Floridia, anyway. Soon the world some folks yearn for will become real, and righteous gunfire will ring out louder than the bells of freedumb! Gosh, maybe even -- it could happen -- Karl Herrenvolk himself will give you a kiss. A bloody kiss from the wishing well.
	__________________ If you would learn a man's character, give him authority. If you would ruin a man's character, let him seize power.