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Old 12th April 2016, 01:19 PM   #1
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Herpes

I don't understand the difference, if there is one between HSV1 and HSV 2. I met someone who has HSV1 and wasn't sure if I am to avoid her like the plague. The Mayo Clinic site seemed to say that they both end up causing the same thing, and there is no cure, and a lifetime sentence. Is this true?

I am not sure I am even asking the right questions, and any illumination would be helpful
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Old 12th April 2016, 01:27 PM   #2
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HS1 is cold sores, HS2 is genital sores - thats all the difference I can remember. Both are spread through contact with the sores, and don't spread when sores are not there.

Lifetime sentence, yes. But, its like being sentenced to sneezing a few times every March when the hardwood trees start blooming. Not that big of a deal. Avoid contact with the sores, avoid contact when your infected partner is active with an outbreak, and you're pretty safe.
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Old 12th April 2016, 01:35 PM   #3
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HSV1 is most commonly transmitted orally, and is commonly called "cold sores".

HSV2 is more commonly transmitted genitally and is the one people think of as herpes. However, you can have HSV1 genitally as well, and some people have gotten oral HSV2.

Generally as long as you don't rub virus in your eye or give birth during an active phase (they do C-sections to reduce the transmission risk then), neither of them are particularly horrible except for the immunocompromised.

Yes, they stay in your system, but so does herpes zoster (aka chickenpox), reappearing as shingles.
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Old 12th April 2016, 01:42 PM   #4
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I was in a relationship with someone with cold sores for seven years, they were very conscientious about stating anytime they felt an eruption coming on, and I was lucky to not get them.
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Old 12th April 2016, 01:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I don't understand the difference, if there is one between HSV1 and HSV 2. I met someone who has HSV1 and wasn't sure if I am to avoid her like the plague. The Mayo Clinic site seemed to say that they both end up causing the same thing, and there is no cure, and a lifetime sentence. Is this true?

I am not sure I am even asking the right questions, and any illumination would be helpful
Almost everyone has been exposed to HSV-1 ("oral") Herpes. Will cause "cold sores" periodically- somewhat painful but temporary and not dreadful for most people. Avoiding anyone who ever had HSV-1 will significantly reduce your chances of finding any intimate partner.

Fewer people have been exposed to HSV-2 ("genital") Herpes. It often creates more painful, more distressing disease.

But there is no hard line- more rarely one can get oral lesions from HSV-2 and genital lesions from HSV-1 based on if there is a flare up at the time and the type of contact one has. Use this information advisedly.

In all cases, avoiding contact with people having active outbreaks will reduce your chances of acquiring either virus.

As pointed out, there are yet other Herpes: the viruses that cause chicken pox, shingles, mono, etc. Hard to avoid them all for one's whole life.

Last edited by Giordano; 12th April 2016 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 12th April 2016, 02:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
HS1 is cold sores, HS2 is genital sores - thats all the difference I can remember. Both are spread through contact with the sores, and don't spread when sores are not there.....
Not true. Asymptomatic viral shedding occurs with both.

They're both treatable now though and people with frequent recurrences can take meds to suppress outbreaks.
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Old 12th April 2016, 02:05 PM   #7
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The Mayo Clinic says its transmissable even when assymptomatic
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Old 12th April 2016, 02:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
I was in a relationship with someone with cold sores for seven years, they were very conscientious about stating anytime they felt an eruption coming on, and I was lucky to not get them.
That could also have been because you had the infection in the past and simply had some immunity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK47447/

Quote:
HSV-1 is the more prevalent virus, with 65% of persons in the United States having antibodies to HSV-1 (Xu et al., 2002). The epidemiology in Europe is similar, with at least half of the population seropositive for HSV-1. In the developing world, HSV-1 is almost universal, ...

The majority of infections are oral, although most are asymptomatic.

[HSV 2 prevalence is ] 20%30% range for most European countries and the United States
There's a wealth of information on the 2 viruses in the link.
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Old 12th April 2016, 02:16 PM   #9
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Odds are you have HSV 1 already. 2/3 of adults have it. Rises to 80% of people over 50.

ETA: Should have refreshed the thread before hitting submit.
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Old 12th April 2016, 03:17 PM   #10
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My doctor seems quite uninformed on this subject compared to you guys and that scares the hell out of me. IS it bad that I always turn to the jref when I have a real question?

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Old 12th April 2016, 08:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
I was in a relationship with someone with cold sores for seven years, they were very conscientious about stating anytime they felt an eruption coming on, and I was lucky to not get them.
I have periodically had cold sores since I was 11 years old. Back then they were just cold sores, ugly, uncomfortable and occasionally somewhat painful but no big thing.

Then, in my late 20's suddenly society decided that it was a disease on par with syphilis.

I have been with my wife for 25 years and she does not ever get cold sores.
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Old 12th April 2016, 09:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
My doctor seems quite uninformed on this subject compared to you guys and that scares the hell out of me. IS it bad that I always turn to the jref when I have a real question?

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It's not surprising. It depends on the doc. Infectious disease is a specialty. You would think any family practice doc would be familiar with the most common viruses but truth be told, they don't don't pay much attention to common infections that don't tend to have serious consequences in most people.

If you have any specific concerns, send me PM. I do practice in the field of infectious disease.
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Old 13th April 2016, 06:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
The Mayo Clinic site seemed to say that they both end up causing the same thing, and there is no cure, and a lifetime sentence. Is this true?
To anyone suffering and unaware, the anitviral drugs Acyclovir or Valacyclovir (Valtrex) are quite effective in managing herpes of either variant. Why these don't "cure" herpes, they appear to make it irrelevant. They seem to reduce outbreaks to almost zero, and duration of outbreaks that do occur to just a couple of days or so by keeping blisters from occurring.
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Old 13th April 2016, 08:08 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That could also have been because you had the infection in the past and simply had some immunity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK47447/


There's a wealth of information on the 2 viruses in the link.
I have always wondered because my first 'girlfriend' had them
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Old 13th April 2016, 08:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
I have periodically had cold sores since I was 11 years old. Back then they were just cold sores, ugly, uncomfortable and occasionally somewhat painful but no big thing.

Then, in my late 20's suddenly society decided that it was a disease on par with syphilis.

I have been with my wife for 25 years and she does not ever get cold sores.
Hmmm, my relationship partner who had them found them very very painful.
So for her they were a nuisance that was very painful

I guess some people are luckier than others.
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Old 13th April 2016, 10:49 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by madurobob View Post
HS1 is cold sores, HS2 is genital sores - thats all the difference I can remember. Both are spread through contact with the sores, and don't spread when sores are not there.

Lifetime sentence, yes. But, its like being sentenced to sneezing a few times every March when the hardwood trees start blooming. Not that big of a deal. Avoid contact with the sores, avoid contact when your infected partner is active with an outbreak, and you're pretty safe.
Their genome differs significantly.Both are varieties of herpes. This is how I understand it. I am not an expert and I may have wrong information. If anyone thinks that I picked up a 'dangerous herpes meme', then say so.

The position of the cold sore is affected both by transmission environment an heredity. H1 inherits the tendency to infect the lips. It inherits a smaller tendency to infect the genitals. This is inherited tendency is reinforced by the habits of the individuals. H1 can infect the genitals, but rarely does so. H1 spreads among people who kiss a lot, whether or not they have sex.

H2 has the inherited tendency to infect the genitals. It inherits less of a tendency to infect the lips. H2 can infect the lips, but rarely does so. It spreads rapidly in groups that have a lot of indiscriminate genital to genital sex.

Herpes supposedly is much more dangerous when it gets in the genitals rather than the lips. H1 is supposedly less dangerous than H2. However, I would welcome informed discussion about that issue.

Some don't know they have it. Herpes often shows itself in flu like symptoms. So it is often mistaken for the flu. The flu like symptoms often precede the cold sore. Sometimes the cold sore doesn't express itself but the flu like symptoms do. So if you make this an issue, then you may have to avoid everyone who says they had the flu.

If your friend has H1 on the lips and you avoid her like the plague, then you may have a social problem. About 25% of people in the U.S. have H1 on the lips. It seldom does more harm than the cold sore, but obviously spreads very well when there is a cold sore.

Herpes is easy to hide and harder to detect. It has an unfair stigma of being completely venereal in transmission. So people try to hide it.

Heres can only spread through the cold sore! The cold sore can leave viruses on items. People have gotten herpes on toilet seats. The toilet seats probably don't not transmit cold sores to the lips, but who knows? I conjecture that it can also be spread like flu when the flu like symptoms show. So when the person doesn't show symptoms. cold sores, he or she are not contagious.

If you like fellatio, then try to avoid cold sores that occur on the lips. No matter how the girl got it, she can pass it on. The virus is not smart enough to distinguish the Virgin Queen from the Queen of Corona.

So if you reject her for this reason, you will have to defensive the rest of your life. You will have to grill all your perspective partners, even the ones you just kiss, as to their medical history.

My wife has a regular cold sore on the lips, almost always preceded by flu symptoms, that supposedly comes from H1. It frequently flares up when there is a lot of stress. When our relationship got better, they stopped coming back.

I think her mother gave it to her. Her mother had cold sores and kissed her a lot. At any rate, it has shown itself on the lips.

We have ignored it.She was so defensive about it that I gave up on taking precautions. I know she was a virgin when we married, and she swore up and down that she had no sexual relations before me. I still believe her. However, she wouldn't except the idea that a good person can spread a disease. So to keep the peace (and reduce the stress causing the cold sore), I didn't insist on precautions. We haven't taken any precautions. I now think that I should have taken precautions.

I recently had cold sores on my butt ! It itched. When it went away, it left a secondary infection. There was a fungus that attacked by butt weeks after the cold sore went away. It itched and itched.

Neither she nor I have shown a cold sore for ten years, BTW. I know that I haven't deviated during that time. Believe what you want, but I didn't. I don't believe she has. I believe that I got infected when we were first married.

The precautions are very easy. They only have to performed during the cold sore periods. In most cases, that is every few years.
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Old 13th April 2016, 11:59 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's not surprising. It depends on the doc. Infectious disease is a specialty. You would think any family practice doc would be familiar with the most common viruses but truth be told, they don't don't pay much attention to common infections that don't tend to have serious consequences in most people.

If you have any specific concerns, send me PM. I do practice in the field of infectious disease.
On the supply side?
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Old 13th April 2016, 12:15 PM   #18
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Kissing isn't everything in a relationship! Just do what I do, kiss through a layer of saran wrap. Weird at first but you'll totally get used to it.

Yeah so if 2/3 of people have it, that includes all those people who have only had a handful of partners, people who married young, people who smell like cat food etc... If you're dating and your partner isn't young or a serial prude, pretty much guaranteed they have it.

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Old 13th April 2016, 01:34 PM   #19
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HSV 1 infection tends to occur in childhood, (mother to child transmission), is usually oral (primary infection is a nasty sore throat, the virus then hides in the sensory nerve fibres, reactivation often caused by fevers or sunburn, causes the virus to travel down the nerve fibres giving rise to cold or fever sores), is more common in caucasians. HSV1 infection provides partial immunity to HSV2 making infection less likely. HSV2 tends to be acquired in adulthood, is sexually transmitted, and his more common in the afrocaribbean ethnic group.

Both can have asymptomatic virus shedding, particularly in saliva, and vaginal secretions. Overall one is probably best acquiring HSV1 in childhood from being kissed by mummy.
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Old 13th April 2016, 02:44 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Hmmm, my relationship partner who had them found them very very painful.
So for her they were a nuisance that was very painful

I guess some people are luckier than others.
I have had one or two episodes in my life that were truly painful. The sore itself is always very sensitive (especially for someone with a mustache) but never really all that bad.
Hitting it with the OTC preparations like Abreva, work well but ONLY if you do so at the first hint of that tingling feeling. If I do that each time , the sore doesn't even erupt, its a bump that fades away in a few days.
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Old 13th April 2016, 02:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
HSV 1 infection tends to occur in childhood, (mother to child transmission), is usually oral (primary infection is a nasty sore throat, the virus then hides in the sensory nerve fibres, reactivation often caused by fevers or sunburn, causes the virus to travel down the nerve fibres giving rise to cold or fever sores), is more common in caucasians. HSV1 infection provides partial immunity to HSV2 making infection less likely. HSV2 tends to be acquired in adulthood, is sexually transmitted, and his more common in the afrocaribbean ethnic group.

Both can have asymptomatic virus shedding, particularly in saliva, and vaginal secretions. Overall one is probably best acquiring HSV1 in childhood from being kissed by mummy.
That explains my history.

I note an increased incidence of outbreaks during mentally emotional periods such as when I was laid off during company downsizing. Also an uptick during my 6 months on anti-cancer chemotherapy (though probably due to lessened immune system responses).

(come to think of it , its possible I don't think its too much of a problem because if all maladies are compared to cancer, a #### of a lot of them will look insignificant)

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Old 16th April 2016, 09:33 PM   #22
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Darwin, that sounds more like shingles on your butt than cold sores, cold sores don't form on that kind of skin. It could have been anything from the way you describe it, including it being bug bites. Anyway, you can shed virus when not having a lesion.
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Old 16th April 2016, 10:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Hmmm, my relationship partner who had them found them very very painful.
So for her they were a nuisance that was very painful

I guess some people are luckier than others.
Acyclovir and valacyclovir treat cold sores as well as genital herpes. They also treat shingles and chicken pox but the dose is much higher. The varicella zoster virus (shingles and chickenpox) are closely related to HSV 1&2.

There is a caveat. You need to start the antiviral within 24 hours of onset of symptoms to do the most good and after 48 hours it won't do much good at all.
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Old 20th April 2016, 06:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Acyclovir and valacyclovir treat cold sores as well as genital herpes. They also treat shingles and chicken pox but the dose is much higher. The varicella zoster virus (shingles and chickenpox) are closely related to HSV 1&2.

There is a caveat. You need to start the antiviral within 24 hours of onset of symptoms to do the most good and after 48 hours it won't do much good at all.
Both medications are very effective for prevention of outbreak of herpes if they're taken as a daily. And in the event an outbreak does occur, the outbreak is unlikely to blister and is wholly gone in about 48 hours.
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Old 20th April 2016, 06:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I am not sure I am even asking the right questions, and any illumination would be helpful

Maybe Adam Ruins Everything can provide the illumination you're looking for:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU4VcOQzQm0

ETA: If you're wondering why I've provided a link to an "Adam Ruins Everything" video, the title is "You Probably Have Herpes and That's Okay"
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Old 20th April 2016, 07:03 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Darwin, that sounds more like shingles on your butt than cold sores, cold sores don't form on that kind of skin. It could have been anything from the way you describe it, including it being bug bites. Anyway, you can shed virus when not having a lesion.
The phrase 'cold sores' may be wrong. Actually, my doctor called it a 'viral rash'.
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Old 20th April 2016, 07:14 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Darwin123 View Post
The phrase 'cold sores' may be wrong. Actually, my doctor called it a 'viral rash'.
Technically it's a viral lesion. A rash implies a much larger area of skin involvement. Shingles outbreaks can be described as a rash.
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Old 20th April 2016, 07:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Technically it's a viral lesion. A rash implies a much larger area of skin involvement. Shingles outbreaks can be described as a rash.
Thanks! You have given me something to think about.

The rash looked like little red dots on a dark pinkish background. So maybe the little red dots were lesions, but the whole pattern was a rash.

I had chicken pox when I was a child. So shingles is always a possibility.

I had a shingles vaccine just last year. The immunity is supposed to last nine years. So it doesn't seem likely it is shingles. It could be though. Vaccines don't always work.

It seemed minor. Annoying, but minor. The little red dot pattern dissappeared, soon replaced by a dark red splotch. I was tested at that time. There was no virus, just fungal hyphae. My doctor claimed it was a secondary infection.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that one should take all versions of herpes seriously. Don't panic, but don't ignore it either.
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