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Old 16th June 2019, 08:13 AM   #3441
Deadie
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Have you never heard of gas moving due to pressure gradient. Do you not know basic science?
The infamous Station bar fire in 2003 caused the unfortunate deaths of 100 people. The largest portion of victims were found where? Near the front entrance in the building where frightened people bunched up and couldn't push pass one another.

Matter has mass and this includes rocket exhaust as well as people.

I also wouldn't consider the thermodynamics of rocket science to be 'basic' and neither should you really if you think 1 atmosphere of pressure differential is the smoking gun to some grand conspiracy.
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Old 16th June 2019, 08:46 AM   #3442
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Do you not know basic science?
Hmmm, since you don't know basic science how could you evaluate this in others?

Pray tell?
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Old 16th June 2019, 08:47 AM   #3443
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Hmmm, since you don't know basic science how could you evaluate this in others?

Pray tell?
I'm guessing either Dunning & Kruger College, or the notion that everyone including Gingervytes is just in this thread for the lulz.
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Old 16th June 2019, 01:45 PM   #3444
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Since gas moves from high pressure to low pressure, I wonder where the gas would go if it were contained at very high pressure in a long cylinder and that cylinder was in a vacuum.

ETA: And you opened one end of the cylinder? I left that bit out sorry.
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
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Old 16th June 2019, 01:56 PM   #3445
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.
Stop shilling Jerry Sprocket's videos. He's an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.

What if a very tiny hole were opened in the cylinder? Would the gas exhaust all at once? Or would it take some time? You still haven't answered me this one, Mr. Basic Science.
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:02 PM   #3446
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
You are ridiculous.

Your video is ridiculous. Are you suggesting that there is no air pressure inside a cardboard tube that is open in both ends? Would be fun if it wasn't so sad.

Hans
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:15 PM   #3447
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
Oh, a gun video, my favorite.

Since the gun is much heavier than the bullet, the noticeable motion of the gun is not seen until after the bullet leaves the gun.

Too bad the author did not also show a gun using a blank to demonstrate the difference the exit mass makes for thrust/recoil.
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:27 PM   #3448
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Oh, but Inspector, there are still one or two things I don't understand.

If there's a pressure gradient in the tube doesn't that mean there's higher pressure up at the closed end?

And if there's higher pressure pushing on the inside of closed end than pushing on the outside, why wouldn't the tube move?
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:45 PM   #3449
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
...why wouldn't the tube move?
In Gingervytes' world, the gas molecules magically know to go only in the direction of the opening. But only if there's total vacuum outside.
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Old 16th June 2019, 02:56 PM   #3450
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
In Gingervytes' world, the gas molecules magically know to go only in the direction of the opening. But only if there's total vacuum outside.
But that can't be! If there's any pressure at all the vacuum will cause the container to blow up!
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:09 PM   #3451
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
But that can't be! If there's any pressure at all the vacuum will cause the container to blow up!
Only if the container is called a rocket. Then it's different. Gingervytes' model is just a loose collection of selected special cases held together with pressure gradient force.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:37 PM   #3452
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
I have a great idea. By a gun, head out to the range, chew a big wad of bubble gum, and then jam it in the barrel.

I want to see that video.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:41 PM   #3453
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Oh, a gun video, my favorite.

Since the gun is much heavier than the bullet, the noticeable motion of the gun is not seen until after the bullet leaves the gun.

Too bad the author did not also show a gun using a blank to demonstrate the difference the exit mass makes for thrust/recoil.
Also, the bigger the round, the bigger, and more immediate the recoil:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmO_J-_N_8Q

Same thing from different angle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-6UNE09kW0

And one more because slow-mo .50 caliber footage is cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhXaER53CHQ



Bullets work in space too.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:49 PM   #3454
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.
The illustration below is of an area of expanding gas and a steel plate to the left of it and in open space with no other objects nearby.

So:

1. Which point has the greater pressure, A or G?
2. Will particles between A and G move towards A or towards G?
3. Given that there is nothing but vacuum between the moving particles to the left of A and the steel plate, what will stop the particles from coming into contact with the steel?

Or don't you know basic science?
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File Type: jpg grenade_and_gas3.jpg (35.4 KB, 4 views)
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Last edited by Robin; 16th June 2019 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:52 PM   #3455
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Bullets work in space too.
The nitrocellulose decomposes when heated by the primer, no oxidizer needed. I read in an encyclopedia that black powder does not work in a vacuum. I suppose that they meant a loose pile will not ignite in a vacuum if heated to the proper temperature. A black powder cartridge will of course work just as a smokeless cartridge will in a vacuum.

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I have a great idea. By a gun, head out to the range, chew a big wad of bubble gum, and then jam it in the barrel.
Stupid idea. The gum will just fly out of the barrel, no bubbles.

Quote:
I want to see that video.
I'll make it and post it online if you like.

Last edited by Ranb; 16th June 2019 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 16th June 2019, 03:59 PM   #3456
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He still thinks vacuum exerts an attractive force on gas molecules. (And that that's the only reason gas diffuses into lower-pressure spaces. And that that mysterious force is called "pressure gradient force.")
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Old 16th June 2019, 04:14 PM   #3457
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Does it look like any of the videos meet the requirements for monetization?
Yep.
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Old 16th June 2019, 04:15 PM   #3458
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I'll make it and post it online if you like.
I'm kind of fond of my hand.

But god bless redneck science:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXMIdNgxmKQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38VE9M7YH6g



Also, I would be remiss in my shill duties if I didn't post this video explaining flying to the ISS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFjw6Lc6J2g

The thing that always impresses me is how well astronauts can explain space travel to lay people.
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Old 16th June 2019, 04:37 PM   #3459
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Oh, but Inspector, there are still one or two things I don't understand.

If there's a pressure gradient in the tube doesn't that mean there's higher pressure up at the closed end?

And if there's higher pressure pushing on the inside of closed end than pushing on the outside, why wouldn't the tube move?
As I understand his theory, it is a special magic kind of pressure that only acts on gas, and never on solids.
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Old 16th June 2019, 04:48 PM   #3460
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Have you never heard of gas moving due to pressure gradient. Do you not know basic science?
I don't know about "basic" science, but I've taught physical chemistry and the kinetic theory of gases, so I know that. And no, I've never heard of "gas moving due to pressure gradient."

I do remember very clearly one of the most important lessons from my book, "Building Scientific Apparatus," which is a primary resource that one uses in (amazingly) building apparatus for doing scientific research. Which I've done.

And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Then again, what do the folks who wrote the book about building scientific apparatus know about "basic science," right?
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Old 16th June 2019, 05:02 PM   #3461
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Checking out molecular beams might help underscore that point. If there were such a force, it would cause the beam to spread out.
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Old 16th June 2019, 05:19 PM   #3462
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Checking out molecular beams might help underscore that point. If there were such a force, it would cause the beam to spread out.
Good point.

Yuan Lee must be a fraud, right?
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Old 16th June 2019, 05:21 PM   #3463
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I don't know about "basic" science, but I've taught physical chemistry and the kinetic theory of gases, so I know that. And no, I've never heard of "gas moving due to pressure gradient."

I do remember very clearly one of the most important lessons from my book, "Building Scientific Apparatus," which is a primary resource that one uses in (amazingly) building apparatus for doing scientific research. Which I've done.

And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Then again, what do the folks who wrote the book about building scientific apparatus know about "basic science," right?
That's great, but you understand that all of that is irrelevant before GV's "feelings". Those are far more important, right?
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Old 16th June 2019, 05:26 PM   #3464
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
Hell... I got sucked in again.

Anyway, just extending the logic of Issac Sprocket's physics:
So, in vacuum it wouldn't move. In the air environment it would be pushed backwards (as we know). Would it be fair to assume underwater (denser medium to push away from) the thrust would be greater?
Experiment a bit - the deeper you go the better.
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Old 16th June 2019, 05:45 PM   #3465
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
In Gingervytes' world, the gas molecules magically know to go only in the direction of the opening. But only if there's total vacuum outside.
Slow down there. It is not every day that one happens upon an individual claiming that self aware, cognitive gas molecules are democratically voting on their movement,

Take some time to relish the insanity peppers. It's the only way to be sure.
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Old 16th June 2019, 06:02 PM   #3466
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
Then what would the equal and opposite reaction be? There has to be one.
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Old 16th June 2019, 06:35 PM   #3467
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I don't know about "basic" science, but I've taught physical chemistry and the kinetic theory of gases, so I know that. And no, I've never heard of "gas moving due to pressure gradient."

I do remember very clearly one of the most important lessons from my book, "Building Scientific Apparatus," which is a primary resource that one uses in (amazingly) building apparatus for doing scientific research. Which I've done.

And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"

There is no force that pulls gas molecules into lower pressure regions.

Then again, what do the folks who wrote the book about building scientific apparatus know about "basic science," right?
Gosh do you mean that you didn't write about a "pressure gradient force"? Although I didn't read you text book, I never heard about this nonsense until I read this thread.
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Old 16th June 2019, 08:49 PM   #3468
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Pressure gradient force appears to be a thing in meteorology and maybe oceanography. Notice that the distance units are kilometres. I doubt there are any rockets that need such large units for the pressure gradient.

However I think we can agree that if there is a pressure gradient in a fluid then, all else being equal, the fluid will move to a state of equal pressure and that until it has equalised a net force will be exerted on any object contained in the fluid in the direction of the lower pressure.

And of course such a force is not a fundamental force (as GV appears to think or rather be pretending to think) but the cumulative force from all the individual forces exerted in the fluid.
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Old 16th June 2019, 09:08 PM   #3469
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
...And the lesson is this:

VACUUM DOES NOT "SUCK"
Hah!!! Tell that to all the people who didn't buy one of the latest Dysonô Brushless Vacuums!!


Laughable, man!!
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Old 16th June 2019, 10:47 PM   #3470
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OK, new question GV.

The following illustration is of a patch of hot, dense expanding gas (shown in red) and a cooler patch of gas (shown in grey).

It is all in open space with no other mass nearby, therefore the white represents vacuum.

Can you describe what you think will happen to the cooler gas as the other patch of gas expands?

Does it stay where it is, move to the right, or something else?
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Old 17th June 2019, 04:04 PM   #3471
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Still no rational (e.g. with actual, valid physics!) answers to these questions about the real world:
1 May 2019 Gingervytes: How did the Curiosity rover get to Mars through the vacuum of space?
1 May 2019 Gingervytes: Explain how the course changes of the Rosetta spacecraft worked as predicted by rocket physics.
2 May 2019 Gingervytes: How do astronauts maneuver in EVA at the ISS using rockets if rockets do not work in space?
3 May 2019 Gingervytes: If rockets do not work in space: How were the orbits of the Galileo 5 & 6 satellites altered with rockets? How are orbit changes for other satellites done? How are orbit adjustments doen for the ISS, e.g. to avoid space junk?
6 May 2019 Gingervytes: What evidence would you accept to show that rockets work in a vacuum?
10 May 2019 Gingervytes: How did astronauts get to the Hubble telescope and repair it?

Still no answers to these questions about that rather deluded image, video(s) and the "flat earth"? conspiracy.
13 May 2019 Gingervytes: How do rockets work inside the atmosphere?
21 May 2019 Gingervytes: Where is the experiment that you or a fellow conspiracy believer did to show that rockets do not work in vacuum?
22 May 2019 Gingervytes: Do you understand [yet] that the OP image has obvious ignorance or lies?
23 May 2019 Gingervytes: What makes the demonstrations in that YouTube video not faked?

27 May 2019 Gingervytes: A delusion of "alleged satellites" when he gives no evidence that the satellites do not exist (they exist even in the rockets do not work in space delusion )
28 May 2019 Gingervytes: "the direction of the gases will be going out of the opening" ignorance.
29 May 2019 Gingervytes: Ignorance about gun powder (exploding gun powder produces a shrapnel of powder particles and gas).
6 June 2019 Gingervytes: A delusion that rockets can only get to "100k feet max"
6 June 2019 Gingervytes: Ignorance about Robin's post is followed by fantasies.

14 June 2019 Gingervytes: Persists with a delusion of "alleged space missions and satellites"
14 June 2019 Gingervytes: An "Indirect evidence" lie when we have direct evidence of space missions and satellites.
14 June 2019 Gingervytes: Lies about his delusion which is that rockets do not work in space which is not a problem with rockets reaching space.
14 June 2019 Gingervytes: Lies again about Newton's third law which is not that every force has an equal and opposite force (pressure gradient force does not have a magic opposing force).

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th June 2019 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 17th June 2019, 04:16 PM   #3472
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Thumbs down Abysmal ignorance of the laws of physics (momentum conservation)

Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
...So momentum is conserved and no push on rocket.
18 June 2019 Gingervytes: Abysmal ignorance of the laws of physics (momentum conservation says rockets are pushed!).

Start with a rocket on a launch pad. Use a frame of reference where its velocity is zero. The rocket and all its contents, including the propellant have a momentum of zero. Ignite the propellant. Gas escapes out the rocket nozzle. That gas has mass and a velocity downward. We have gone from zero momentum to momentum pointing downward. Conservation of momentum means there is the same momentum pointing upward - the rocket is pushed
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Old 17th June 2019, 04:19 PM   #3473
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Thumbs down A stupid "Where is your proof" question

Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Where is your proof
18 June 2019 Gingervytes: A stupid "Where is your proof" question.

14 June 2019 Gingervytes: Lies again about Newton's third law which is not that every force has an equal and opposite force. cites and quotes a definition of Newton's third law. That is the "proof" !

"The third law states that all forces between two objects exist in equal magnitude and opposite direction". A gas is not 2 objects. Newton's third law applies between each pair of gas particles.

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Old 17th June 2019, 04:39 PM   #3474
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Oh, those aren't HIS videos, they're by Jerry Sprocket, who is an idiot. That means it's just fine for GV to spam them here.
There is a chance that GV is Jerry Sprocket touting the blatant stupidity from his videos. That channel started in Joined Feb 24, 2019 so this may be a dumb attempt to get more views.
An obviously deluded "Rockets do not work in space" video.
Paranoia that 5G towers are comparable to crowd control weapons.
A lying "Rockets need to push of something external" video.
An insane "rockets explode in space" lie when he has pictures of a rocket exploding in the atmosphere!
Insanity that sea levels do not rise when ice melts (this is basic climate science).
A lying "invalidating a NASA thrust equation" video.
The deluded and lying "Rockets Cannot Propel In Space vacuum. NASA hoax" video that is the basis of this thread.

On the other hand GV may just fallen for the blatant stupidity in Jerry Sprocket's videos.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th June 2019 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 17th June 2019, 04:49 PM   #3475
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Thumbs down A stupid question on the pressure gradient force and an insult

Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
Have you never heard of gas moving due to pressure gradient. Do you not know basic science?
18 June 2019 Gingervytes: A stupid question on the pressure gradient force and an insult.

By definition, pressure gradient force moves gas - it is a force on gas particles due to a difference in pressure !

We have been explaining the pressure gradient force to you for weeks now. We know basic science that you have not shown any sign of learning so far.
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Old 17th June 2019, 06:17 PM   #3476
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
There is a chance that GV is Jerry Sprocket touting the blatant stupidity from his videos. That channel started in Joined Feb 24, 2019 so this may be a dumb attempt to get more views.
An obviously deluded "Rockets do not work in space" video.
Paranoia that 5G towers are comparable to crowd control weapons.
A lying "Rockets need to push of something external" video.
An insane "rockets explode in space" lie when he has pictures of a rocket exploding in the atmosphere!
Insanity that sea levels do not rise when ice melts (this is basic climate science).
A lying "invalidating a NASA thrust equation" video.
The deluded and lying "Rockets Cannot Propel In Space vacuum. NASA hoax" video that is the basis of this thread.

On the other hand GV may just fallen for the blatant stupidity in Jerry Sprocket's videos.
No, I insist on maintaining that GV is not JS so I won't be violating any rules when I say that JS is a frickin' idiot.

Oh, hey, GV! We're coming right up on the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the moon! How do you think they got there?
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Old 18th June 2019, 12:24 AM   #3477
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
No, I insist on maintaining that GV is not JS so I won't be violating any rules when I say that JS is a frickin' idiot.

Oh, hey, GV! We're coming right up on the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the moon! How do you think they got there?
After reviewing the comments of people who could be bothered to watch Jerry Sprocket's videos and review his body of (snort) "work", it is my considered opinion that he is one of the leading morons on the Internet today. There are boils on my ass that are smarter than him.
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Old 18th June 2019, 05:54 AM   #3478
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Originally Posted by Gingervytes View Post
The cylinder would not move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbc8bdacIBg
Do you believe that we can get things into the vacuum of space, outside the earth's atmosphere, but just cannot control them once they are there? That momentum just carries these things in whatever direction they were headed when they entered the vacuum of space and are only affected by the gravity of other objects?
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Old 18th June 2019, 06:30 AM   #3479
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I was watching a show about the Apollo missions last night, and the topic was the Saturn V rocket.

Man that was interesting stuff. Such a wonderful feat of engineering, with so many really smart people....i mean, fakers pulling the wool over everyone's eyes....
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Old 18th June 2019, 08:28 AM   #3480
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I was watching a show about the Apollo missions last night, and the topic was the Saturn V rocket.

Man that was interesting stuff. Such a wonderful feat of engineering, with so many really smart people....i mean, fakers pulling the wool over everyone's eyes....
I don't know what program you watched and there are several concerning the building of the Saturn V. My favorite was this one that showed the development problems and how some were solved to get this behemoth into space.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKbDd2SbJeo
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