ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew Bolt , autism , environmental activists , Greta Thunberg

Reply
Old Yesterday, 05:43 AM   #2041
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,826
Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Is there any personality defect that people will not ascribe to Thunberg?

At least the “noble savage” as you feel it necessary to describe him, seems to grasp that young people have something to contribute.
“I don’t know why the world is so scared of her. She stands about four feet tall and she’s probably, I’m guessing about 110 pounds, that’s about it,” [Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation Chief Allan] Adam said, dismissing those who criticize Thunberg’s views because she’s young.

“We talk to our kids every day and sometimes our kids give us meaningful answers that we are looking for.”
I see things more clearly than other people. Thunberg is just a crutch fpr people to use when they pretend to care about climate change yet don't want to compromise their carbon intensive lifestyles. Sure, people can go on about wanting systemic change but it's just another way of saying "not my fault". Calls for systemic change haven't worked over the past 30 years and they won't work over the next 8/11/30 ( pick your favourite ) years.

Strange quote from the Chief. Do es he really thing that there's a lot of people out there wanting to get into the boxing ring with Thunberg ?
Stout is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 05:45 AM   #2042
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,826
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
This is what we should be doing. I don't understand the need to keep engaging.
Then why are you here, engaging ?
Stout is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:05 AM   #2043
wobs
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 2,048
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
What I find disconcerting is that this is not being said.

Kids are having it drummed into their heads it is 8 years or inevitable catastrophe.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...b0ac3cdda8cd40

This is not healthy
No where in that article does it say 8 years.
In fact 12 years is a time repeated by kids, as the picture in this link shows:
https://theconversation.com/school-c...-action-111851

I would put the picture in flickr, but currently blocked. Don't know why.
__________________
"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."
wobs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:04 AM   #2044
crescent
Illuminator
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,159
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
What I find disconcerting is that this is not being said.

Kids are having it drummed into their heads it is 8 years or inevitable catastrophe.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/...b0ac3cdda8cd40

This is not healthy
Originally Posted by wobs View Post
No where in that article does it say 8 years.
In fact 12 years is a time repeated by kids, as the picture in this link shows:
https://theconversation.com/school-c...-action-111851

I would put the picture in flickr, but currently blocked. Don't know why.
Quote:
“In the IPCC’s SR1.5 report that came out last year, it says ... that to have a 67-per-cent chance of staying below a 1.5 degrees of global temperature rise, the best odds given by the IPCC, the world had 420 gigatonnes of [carbon dioxide] left to emit back on Jan. 1, 2018,” Thunberg said.

“And today, that figure is already down to less than 350 gigatonnes.”

One gigatonne is a billion metric tonnes, and carbon dioxide is the greenhouse gas most commonly linked to climate change.

“With today’s emissions levels, that remaining [carbon dioxide] budget will be entirely gone within less than eight and a half years,” Thunberg said.
She kind of says eight years, but she's getting that from the IPCC report. That might not be perfect, but given a choice between her math and the full throat denialism being put out by 1/2 of the American political establishment. I would say Thunberg is much, much closer to the reality of the situation.
crescent is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM   #2045
wobs
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 2,048
Kids are campaigning about it being 12 years
__________________
"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."
wobs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 12:37 PM   #2046
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,777
traumatizing kids for an agenda
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM   #2047
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 41,090
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
In 8 years there will be inevitable consequences that can't be reversed.



Yes we know.



I disagree
As Greta had pointed out, your opinion doesn't carry much weight compared to the laws of physics.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM   #2048
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 38,562
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Are you OK?
It comes and goes. Thanks for asking. Not really relevant here, though.

Quote:
I've seen you post many insightful things over the years.
Thanks. I do have my moments, but claim no special skill or wisdom.

Quote:
Yet you ask someone to post a detailed plan to solve the climate crisis for your own benefit.
It's hard to get specifics without at least a little bit of detail. But summaries are fine. No need to get too granular.

At some point someone has to come up with something, right? We can't just spend the next 8 years waiting for someone to come up with details. We're talking about limiting CO2 emissions to less than ~350gt over the next 8 years. What's the plan for that? Encourage people to take fewer airplane rides?

Quote:
What are your priorities?

Are you interested in learning about this?
I'm interested in learning what your priorities are, in planning out a ~350gt CO2 emissions cap for the next 8 years.

Quote:
It's very easy to just assume you want a rush of "argument adrenaline" (to coin a phrase for a pet theory).

I've often thought that similar behaviour (such as bingeing, drinking, and smoking) might be a detrimental substitute for physical exercise and/or patient searching and absorption of information when exercise needs are met.
Fascinating, but off-topic.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM   #2049
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,053
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Specifically: According to HuffPo, according to Thunberg, according to the scientists, there's about a 67% chance of keeping the global temperature rise to below about +1.5C, as long as we emit - globally - less than about 350 gigatons of carbon dioxide over the next 8 years.
Hitting 450 ppm means an additional 2 Deg C warming by 2100. Actual committed warming would be higher since it would not all be felt by 2100.
Article from 2006 discussing it.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php...n-is-too-much/

Quote:
The next piece of the equation is to define “dangerous climate change”. This is a bit of a guessing game, but 2°C has been proposed as a reasonable danger limit. This would be decidedly warmer than the Earth has been in millions of years, and warm enough to eventually raise sea level by tens of meters. A warming of 2° C could be accomplished by raising CO2 to 450 ppm and waiting a century or so, assuming a climate sensitivity of 3 °C for doubling CO2, a typical value from models and diagnosed from paleo-data.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The catastrophe that happens after that is "catastrophic" flooding of coastal regions. Which has good chance of happening anyway? I think? Climate change probabilities are not my strong suit.
“Coastal flooding” seems to undersell the impact of Tens of meters of sea level rise.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What if it's actually cheaper, in lives and resources, to continue on our current course, and migrate inland as the coastal areas begin to flood?
I find it unlikely that flooding most of the worlds’ coastal cities with 50-100 feet of water could be cheaper, but you are welcome to try to provide evidence that this is indeed the case.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 02:48 PM   #2050
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 41,090
Climate scientist says we are wasting time and not acting with the required level of urgency.
https://theconversation.com/amp/clim...-crisis-122479

In agreement with Greta.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:29 PM   #2051
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,826
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Climate scientist says we are wasting time and not acting with the required level of urgency.
https://theconversation.com/amp/clim...-crisis-122479

In agreement with Greta.
Uh oh..

Originally Posted by article
The problem is that 40 years of these efforts, however well-intentioned, have not had any impact on the carbon course of humanity. Since the middle of the 19th century, CO₂ emissions from human activities have been growing exponentially, on average by 1.65% per year since 1850.
Stay the course people, the next 5/8/11 years are going to be different. Don't worry, government's got this.
Stout is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:38 PM   #2052
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,780
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Climate scientist says we are wasting time and not acting with the required level of urgency.
https://theconversation.com/amp/clim...-crisis-122479

In agreement with Greta.
Interesting read

Cheers



Quote:
The scientists across the world that contribute to the body’s reports must heed its track record of mistaken conservatism, and adjust their approach going forward. Uncertainties are of course inherent in modelling how and when the climate will destabilise, but when the stakes are as high as they are, we must operate on the precautionary principle – the normal burden of proof on scientists should be reversed.
No mate. It shouldn't (directed at the dude who wrote the article, not you)
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:21 PM   #2053
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 41,090
He is talking about the difference between measuring the size a sub-atomic particle to a catastrophic risk. We only have one planet and it's too big to fit in a lab so that people in white coats can run tests on it. The science had so far been remarkably consistent and is mature.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:45 AM   #2054
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 36,678
https://www.overshootday.org/

"Earth Overshoot Day marks the date when humanity’s demand for ecological resources (fish and forests, for instance) and services in a given year exceeds what Earth can regenerate in that year. We keep growing this deficit by liquidating the Earth’s natural capital and accumulating waste, primarily carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Andrew Simms originally conceived the concept of Earth Overshoot Day while working at the UK think tank New Economics Foundation."

July 29 2019 was Earth Overshoot Day.

But it's not just about the perfect estimate of any particular date.

As we sit here arguing, the date of irreversible climate change gets closer and closer, no matter what the exact date.


Focusing on if/why/when uses time that could be spent learning about what to do and how.

Instead of sitting here trying to score points against each other, there are innumerable websites and studies of all the many ways to change our habits.

You can use this website to calculate your own Ecological Footprint, and get tips on how to do better.

http://www.footprintcalculator.org/
__________________
Challenge your thoughts.
Don't believe everything you think.

Last edited by Orphia Nay; Today at 12:47 AM.
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:06 AM   #2055
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,053
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I have said about 3 times.

The bit where she and the UN say if we don't keep the climate less than 1.5 degrees higher in 8 years there will be unstoppable global catastrophe.
That isn’t what it says. It says that at current CO2 emission rates we will have locked in warming of 1.5 deg C. The warming itself doesn’t occur in 8 years, it happens over the following decades but will be unstoppable.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:31 AM   #2056
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,053
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Interesting read

Cheers





No mate. It shouldn't (directed at the dude who wrote the article, not you)
So what is your point? Engineering 101 is that you ignore parameters designated as typical. You go straight to the worst case then add safety margins.

Would you ride in an airplane where the wings could fall off is you hit heavy turbulence because it was only designed to work under optimal conditions? Would you not want it to be designed for the worst case conditions it could reasonably encounter even if that raised the price of a ticket?
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

Last edited by lomiller; Today at 06:33 AM.
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:59 PM   #2057
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 41,090
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
That isn’t what it says. It says that at current CO2 emission rates we will have locked in warming of 1.5 deg C. The warming itself doesn’t occur in 8 years, it happens over the following decades but will be unstoppable.
If we say it enough times the message might get through.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:03 PM   #2058
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,111
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think you missed the bit where I have continually said I agree most of her other stuff.

But by all means, twist me not agreeing one thing making me a global warming denialist (stupid term by the way)

It is easy slander

When written it is libel.

But neither is being perfomed on this thread.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:29 PM   #2059
EHocking
Philosopher
 
EHocking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,111
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I see things more clearly than other people.
No, you really don't.
Having a high opinion of your own rhetoric is usuall a sign of quite the opposite.
Quote:
Thunberg is just a crutch fpr people to use when they pretend to care about climate change yet don't want to compromise their carbon intensive lifestyles. Sure, people can go on about wanting systemic change but it's just another way of saying "not my fault". Calls for systemic change haven't worked over the past 30 years and they won't work over the next 8/11/30 ( pick your favourite ) years.
Yes, yes, climate change is not happening so we should just ignore it - we get the picture.
Quote:
Strange quote from the Chief. Do es he really thing that there's a lot of people out there wanting to get into the boxing ring with Thunberg ?
He is obviously aware of the number of middle-aged white men that seem to be all butt-hurt about a young girl being concerned about climate change and the vicious reactions by them.
__________________
"A closed mouth gathers no feet"
"Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke
"It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite
You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald
EHocking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:05 PM   #2060
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,826
Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
No, you really don't.
Having a high opinion of your own rhetoric is usuall a sign of quite the opposite.
Dude ! Those are the words of Greta Thunberg herself. How Dare You !

Quote:
Yes, yes, climate change is not happening so we should just ignore it - we get the picture.
Ah, as I suspected. The words hit home so throw up a smokescreen of climate change denialism then run for cover. So what's the problem here ? Bog yacht ? Mansion ? Frequent flyer ? Monster truck ? Just throw another tire on the fire and hope that Thunberg arrives in time to put it out.

Quote:
He is obviously aware of the number of middle-aged white men that seem to be all butt-hurt about a young girl being concerned about climate change and the vicious reactions by them.
Ooooo Right in the nuts ! Good thing I'm wearing a cup. You know what would be weird ? What would be weird if there were people other than these "middle aged white men" who were critical of the Thunberg approach.

But you know what they say...When your back is against the wall, go full SJW and hope some of it sticks.
Stout is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 05:38 PM   #2061
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,777
""My diagnosis helps me helps me see things a bit more clearly sometimes,"....G.T.
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:48 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.