ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags court cases , donald trump , Michael Flynn , perjury cases , Robert Mueller , William Barr

Reply
Old 12th August 2020, 01:02 AM   #961
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 29,744
I've seen a couple of lawyers voice the opinion that if the court were going to support Flynn then they wouldn't have agreed to the en banc review in the first place. To grant the review requires a majority of the justices, and they are unlikely to want to do a review simply to add their voices to the original decision.

I've also seen more than one lawyer say that Sullivan was likely always going to grant the motion to dismiss.

Of course, this may end up backfiring, because it's also possible that since Sullivan was the person who filed for the en banc that he may be seen as an invested party and asked to recuse himself going forwards. So Flynn's fate may depend on which judge is chosen to replace Sullivan.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th August 2020, 09:33 AM   #962
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 32,143
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
So Flynn's fate may depend on which judge is chosen to replace Sullivan.
Chosen by whom, I wonder?
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th August 2020, 03:31 AM   #963
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 29,744
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Chosen by whom, I wonder?
Random drawing.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2020, 04:47 PM   #964
Beeyon
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 437
Quote:
The former FBI attorney, Kevin Clinesmith, will plead to a single felony count of making a false statement, though his lawyer said it was not his intent to mislead the court that approved the original warrant in 2016 and three renewals in 2017.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...a-probe-395317

I wonder what Flynn defenders will say?

"They can't prove intent!"

"The FBI refuses to turn over every single intermediary work product related to his case!!!1"

"Where's the audio recording of the interview?"

"Maybe he just forgot the truth during the interview?"

"They got him to plead guilty by threatening to ruin him through the cost of defense lawyers."

"Process crime!"

Or perhaps:

"*crickets*"

(The above should not be construed as a defense of Mr. Clinesmith.)

Last edited by Beeyon; 14th August 2020 at 04:48 PM.
Beeyon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th August 2020, 08:44 PM   #965
TahiniBinShawarma
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by Beeyon View Post
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...a-probe-395317

I wonder what Flynn defenders will say?

"They can't prove intent!"

"The FBI refuses to turn over every single intermediary work product related to his case!!!1"

"Where's the audio recording of the interview?"

"Maybe he just forgot the truth during the interview?"

"They got him to plead guilty by threatening to ruin him through the cost of defense lawyers."

"Process crime!"

Or perhaps:

"*crickets*"

(The above should not be construed as a defense of Mr. Clinesmith.)
Cute.
TahiniBinShawarma is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st August 2020, 09:19 AM   #966
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 15,244
Appeals court denies Flynn and DOJ effort to end his case.
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st August 2020, 11:14 AM   #967
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 22,779
Indeed - an 8 to 2 ruling by the Appeals Court. Here is the ruling (embedded document at CNN website)
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st August 2020, 11:31 AM   #968
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 31,259
Hmm. The 2 that originally ruled to end the case were the only ones that voted again to end the case?
__________________
1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.
thaiboxerken is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st August 2020, 11:46 AM   #969
Beeyon
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 437
https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...8-31-2020.html

Flynn's petition for mandamus is denied by the en banc Circuit Court for the District of Columbia.

Highlights:

- 8-2, with the 2 dissenters being the majority from the original panel.

- The decision provides Sullivan with an extremely short leash. I think it's fair to say the subtext is "we don't think the executive gets to tell you to grant their motion to dismiss, but we are telling you to grant the motion to dimiss, and don't get cute while coming to your "decision"!"

- Henderson's dissent is all about reassigning the case to a new judge. In her view, Sullivan's en banc request breaks the camel's back. I think it interesting that neither the original panel decision nor her participation on that panel's oral arguments indicated that the camel was so heavily loaded to begin with.

- The mechanism by which the case went en banc is strange. Henderson focuses on Sullivan request, because only parties can make such requests. The en banc majority says that one of their ranks sua sponte requested a vote. Looking back at the original order, it doesn't indicate either a petition for en banc being granted or a sua sponte order being made. The original order appears to have been crafted anticipating a need to walk a fine line.

- Griffith, a republican appointed judge who sided with the en banc majority, concurs with the per curiam to reject the idea that this decision is playing out the party politics of the appointing presidents. This has to be in reference to Henderson and Rao (both republican appointees) being the sole dissenters.

- Rao doesn't seem to have tuned up her "think of what could happen to the executive!" argument in the intervening month. Whoever wrote the per curium did so to make it as palatable as possible to anyone with doubts about Sullivan's behavior. Rao did not take a similar approach. It is not surprising that she got no additional votes.


It will be interesting to see if Flynn appeals to SCOTUS now, or if he let's Sullivan play out his hearing. The former option appears unlikely to result in a win during the remainder of Trump's term. The latter option really could be resolved by December. It will be an excellent test of whether Flynn is more motivated by results or grandstanding.
Beeyon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st August 2020, 11:47 AM   #970
Beeyon
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 437
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Hmm. The 2 that originally ruled to end the case were the only ones that voted again to end the case?

Correct.
Beeyon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2020, 02:26 AM   #971
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 29,744
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1304450096948482048

Quote:
JUST IN: Adviser appointed by Judge Sullivan in FLYNN case urges him to deny DOJ's motion to dismiss the case, calling its decision a clear pretext for Trump's pressure campaign. Flynn's guilt is "obvious" he argues.
Excerpt embedded in tweet, and more in subsequent tweets. He's not mincing his words.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

Last edited by Squeegee Beckenheim; 12th September 2020 at 02:28 AM.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:04 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.