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Tags donald trump , Mueller investigation , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , William Barr

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Old 15th January 2020, 10:20 AM   #321
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Kinda weird, since Maddow pointed out last night that he stood up in open court under oath and confessed to the charged crimes. I assume that sworn confession will be admissible at trial?
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:23 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
Kinda weird, since Maddow pointed out last night that he stood up in open court under oath and confessed to the charged crimes. I assume that sworn confession will be admissible at trial?
At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done.
By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:34 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done.
By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt.
I’m a bit confused.

If the judge permits him to retract his guilty plea, is that not a reset to a “not guilty plea”? And if so, is he not presumed innocent and entitled to a new trial?

I think I may need to do some research into the implications here.

Anyway, this, from USA Today:

”Pat Cotter, a former federal prosecutor, said Flynn has "little to no chance of successfully withdrawing his plea."
"He would have to show that he was somehow misinformed about the terms of the plea or what he was pleading to having done. Either that or he was not competent when he took his plea," Cotter said. "Add to that Flynn’s education, maturity and experience and it seems ridiculous for him to claim he was not fully aware of what he pleaded to."”
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:40 AM   #324
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It is possible that the Judge won't let him withdraw his plea.
But even if he does, Flynn has decided not to mount a defense on his indictment of lying to the FBI, and that is separate from his plea.
But, of course, he can try to appeal whatever sentence he gets.
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:19 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It is possible that the Judge won't let him withdraw his plea.
But even if he does, Flynn has decided not to mount a defense on his indictment of lying to the FBI, and that is separate from his plea.
But, of course, he can try to appeal whatever sentence he gets.
What grounds would he have for appeal?
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:27 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What grounds would he have for appeal?
The FBi was sooo mean to him!
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:29 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
At this point, it is only about Sentencing, the trial is done.
By withdrawing his plea, he pretty much guarantees himself an actual prison sentence, but increases his chance that Trump will Pardon him as the victim of a Witch Hunt.
I think you hit the nail on the head; it's about getting a pardon from Trump. As long as Flynn admitted to the crimes, there was little basis for a pardon. Now Trump can claim that Flynn is an innocent victim.
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:35 AM   #328
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Yeah, pretty much all commentators are saying that the withdrawal has an audience of one, and it's not the judge.
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Old 18th January 2020, 04:41 AM   #329
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https://twitter.com/ShimonPro/status...627139587?s=20

Quote:
!!! Despite a court order, the Justice Department is holding back Special Counsel Mueller memos regarding the interviews conducted with the President’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner.
CNN and Buzzfeed won access to thousands of pages of Mueller’s witness memos.
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Old 18th January 2020, 06:20 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Nothing to see here.
Move along.
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Old 18th January 2020, 12:20 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Trump simply ignores the law.
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Old 18th January 2020, 03:53 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump simply ignores the law.
But, SG....Article II of the Constitution lets Trump do anything he wants!
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Old 31st January 2020, 11:05 PM   #333
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I wonder if Mueller would have run his Investigation and made his Report differently, had he anticipated this level of Obstruction and Deception from the Senate and White House.

My guess is that he would have refused to take the job in the first place.
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Old 1st February 2020, 01:23 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I wonder if Mueller would have run his Investigation and made his Report differently, had he anticipated this level of Obstruction and Deception from the Senate and White House.

My guess is that he would have refused to take the job in the first place.
Sometimes ignorance is actually a good thing.
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Old 5th February 2020, 05:30 AM   #335
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More declassified documentation
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Old 5th February 2020, 06:36 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee.
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Old 5th February 2020, 10:58 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee.
Does seem strange.

I wonder if its simply a case where there are 1) more media outlets, that 2) are more tenacious/focused. On the other hand, the House Committees probably have a lot of responsibilities, and may not realize "Oh, this information is now available".
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Old 5th February 2020, 12:28 PM   #338
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Cool

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It is friggin weird that a citizen with a FoI request can declassify more information than a House Committee.
Maybe that as a private enterprise not funded by the government it can afford (literally and figuratively) to grind out these requests that would be branded a "fishing expedition" if it came from the opposing party in the House?

I suspect BuzzFeed is getting a lot of help from 1A experts telling them what to look for and that some private "angel" is financing staffer(s) devoted solely to this process.
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Old 11th February 2020, 10:23 AM   #339
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https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/stat...16256227807232

Quote:
Prosecutors recommend up to NINE YEARS in prison for Roger Stone.

They call foreign election interference a "deadly adversary" even though Stone was never accused of working with Russians or WikiLeaks.
Article embedded in tweet.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...22206783811585

Quote:
This is a horrible and very unfair situation. The real crimes were on the other side, as nothing happens to them. Cannot allow this miscarriage of justice!
https://twitter.com/JakeBGibson/stat...71189346816000

Quote:
The DOJ is changing its sentencing recommendation for Roger Stone, according to a Senior DOJ official.
“The Department finds seven to nine years extreme, excessive and grossly disproportionate," the source said, adding the DOJ will clarify its position on sentencing later today
Huh.
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Old 11th February 2020, 11:37 AM   #340
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Huh, indeed. How long did some woman get for illegally casting a single vote? Compare and contrast to an operative working at a very high level indeed to impact an election?
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Old 11th February 2020, 11:45 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Huh, indeed. How long did some woman get for illegally casting a single vote? Compare and contrast to an operative working at a very high level indeed to impact an election?
Of course, Stone wasn't found guilty of working to subvert American democracy... he was found guilty of perjury (e.g. lying to congress) and witness tampering. You know, the type of crimes that we all do.
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Old 11th February 2020, 12:27 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Are you suggesting there's a link between the DOJ's declaration that Stone's sentencing is too extreme and the Trump tweet that had been posted just hours before? I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell ya!
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:31 PM   #343
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Are you suggesting there's a link between the DOJ's declaration that Stone's sentencing is too extreme and the Trump tweet that had been posted just hours before? I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED, I tell ya!
Well... sounds like Barr just took over the sentencing. Nothing to be concerned about there, given Barr's history of shutting down Mueller Report related investigations and actively working to turn the DoJ into the DoSTI (Department of Serving Trump's Interests).
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:50 PM   #344
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Trump and Barr are on a propaganda tour to promote a stricter separation of the White House and DoJ.
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Old 11th February 2020, 10:15 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump and Barr are on a propaganda tour to promote a stricter separation of the White House and DoJ.
In anticipation of Trump losing the election, got to fix it before a Democrat is POTUS.
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Old 12th February 2020, 01:48 AM   #346
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There's more.

In response to the change in sentencing recommendation all four prosecutors have resigned from the case, with Jonathan Kravis resigning his job entirely

Trump has personally withdrawn his recommendation for Jessie Liu to be Treasury undesecretary, seemingly based on the Stone recommendations, as she oversaw the case (as well as Flynn, Manafort, McCabe, etc.)

Barr is reported to have personally intervened in Stone's case (as well as Flynn's)

And Trump appears to be laying the groundwork to go after the judge: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...855976449?s=20

Quote:
Is this the Judge that put Paul Manafort in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT, something that not even mobster Al Capone had to endure? How did she treat Crooked Hillary Clinton? Just asking!
Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson...
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Old 12th February 2020, 01:58 AM   #347
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Chuck Schumer has called for an investigation
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:22 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Not the lesson that she thought he would learn, eh?
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:29 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Schumer may as well call for World Peace.

After years of people trying to manage Trump, Trump now has a team in place that offers their first loyalty to him personally, that will enable all his whims and defend them, that fuels his most base motivations. Hold on.
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Old 12th February 2020, 05:08 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Well, Susan Collins was right that impeachment taught him a lesson...
She's a ******* weakling.
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Old 12th February 2020, 05:48 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Well... sounds like Barr just took over the sentencing. Nothing to be concerned about there, given Barr's history of shutting down Mueller Report related investigations and actively working to turn the DoJ into the DoSTI (Department of Serving Trump's Interests).
Prediction: Barr is going to be disbarred for severe breach of ethics. This is a massive conflict of interest. He shouldn't have touched that issue with a 10-foot pole. It will be interesting if he pretends that he had nothing to do with that. Good luck with that, counselor.
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Old 12th February 2020, 08:13 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
She's a ******* weakling.
Why weakling? It's rather looking like her whole modus operandi is pretending to be moderate and actually concerned about things for the sake of gaining and keeping power, while actually being a partisan hack. Only voting with Democrats when it doesn't make a difference, in other words.
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Old 12th February 2020, 08:36 AM   #353
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If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level.

Someone once referred to Susan Collins as someone who always has to look at the menu for a half hour before always deciding to eat what Mitch McConnell is having. Nancy Pelosi is someone who looks at the menu, knows immediately what she wants, orders it, but realizes after the fact that Mitch McConnell already ordered for the whole table and she still has to eat it. But sometime she can sarcastically clap at him.

Mitch McConnell is still picking both women's meals in both metaphors. The only difference is how much they don't like it and Mitch McConnell don't care.
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Old 12th February 2020, 08:42 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Prediction: Barr is going to be disbarred for severe breach of ethics. This is a massive conflict of interest. He shouldn't have touched that issue with a 10-foot pole. It will be interesting if he pretends that he had nothing to do with that. Good luck with that, counselor.
Nixon's AG Mitchell actually wound up in prison. We can only hope.
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Old 12th February 2020, 08:59 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level.
I guess the difference is one of them is only pretending to try.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:03 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I guess the difference is one of them is only pretending to try.
You're drowning in a rip-tide. Two lifeguards spot you. One starts sprinting toward you (In slow-mo while the theme song from Baywatch plays I'm assuming) but when he reaches the water's edge decides he'd rather let you drown. That's Susan Collins.

The other one starts to turn toward you, but when they reach the water's edge they remember they don't know how to swim and have to stand there and watch you drown. That's Nancy Pelosi.

You're drowning either way. And since a lifeguard's job is to save you from drowning the "I won't / I can't" distinction is academic.

If you won't stop Trump, you need to be voted out who will.. If you can't stop Trump you need to be voted out and replaced with someone who can.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:04 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If Susan Collins is a weakling so is Nancy Pelosi. They've both had the same actual level of effect on anything Trump has done and the difference between Collin's 'Pretend I want to stop him even though I know in the end I don't" and Pelosi' "Pretend I can stop him even though I know in the end I can't" is meaningless on any practical level.

Someone once referred to Susan Collins as someone who always has to look at the menu for a half hour before always deciding to eat what Mitch McConnell is having. Nancy Pelosi is someone who looks at the menu, knows immediately what she wants, orders it, but realizes after the fact that Mitch McConnell already ordered for the whole table and she still has to eat it. But sometime she can sarcastically clap at him.

Mitch McConnell is still picking both women's meals in both metaphors. The only difference is how much they don't like it and Mitch McConnell don't care.
For the life of me I wish I could figure out what the hell this metaphor means. Pelosi did her job, which was represent her party's wishes in moving ahead with impeachment.

You've made it perfectly, and entirely clear that you were against impeachment because something, something, something Donald Trump gets re-elected. You've said it no where short of a thousand times, but not impeaching Trump for extremely impeachable behavior would be derelict. It would be asinine and it would be a failure. Collins failed in voting for removal, Pelosi didn't fail at moving forward with impeachment.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:45 AM   #358
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You're drowning in a rip-tide. Two lifeguards spot you. One starts sprinting toward you (In slow-mo while the theme song from Baywatch plays I'm assuming) but when he reaches the water's edge decides he'd rather let you drown. That's Susan Collins.

The other one starts to turn toward you, but when they reach the water's edge they remember they don't know how to swim and have to stand there and watch you drown. That's Nancy Pelosi.

You're drowning either way. And since a lifeguard's job is to save you from drowning the "I won't / I can't" distinction is academic.

If you won't stop Trump, you need to be voted out who will.. If you can't stop Trump you need to be voted out and replaced with someone who can.
Intent may not make a practical difference, but that doesn't mean that intent counts for nothing.

If someone shoots at you with a potato gun and someone shoots at you with an AK-47 the two actions are not equivalent if both people miss, even though the practical end result is identical.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:50 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Intent may not make a practical difference.
And right now I don't care about anything that isn't a practical difference.
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Old 12th February 2020, 09:50 AM   #360
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You've said it no where short of a thousand times, but not impeaching Trump for extremely impeachable behavior would be derelict. It would be asinine and it would be a failure.

No, it's failing to remove him form office that is derelict. Impeaching him has turned out to be a waste of time that has also contributed to winning the next election and keeping him in office. Impeachment, at least at the moment, appears to have been worse than a waste of time.
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