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Tags donald trump , john bolton , lawsuits

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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:14 PM   #281
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
From Bolton's perspective, between abortion and communist genocide, he likely views liberalism as an atrocity. I see that view from neocons.
Then not only is he lying when he is saying he wants Trump to be a 'one term president' (at best he doesn't really care, at worst he's outright lying), he's also an idiot.

Biden is not a 'communist'. He is not about to engage in genocide. And because Democrats take a much smarter view regarding social policies, abortions would probably decrease. (USA Today)

You can claim Biden's policies aren't what you want, but anyone who chooses not to vote for him can no longer condemn Trump's corruption.

Quote:
You may think he is wrong, but arguing lesser of two evils is an argument for many to vote for Trump. Corruption is relatively minor next to a March to communism (People like Bolton, not me. Communists surprisingly don't offend me).
Lesser of 2 evils is only a thing if you actually have 2 evils.

Nothing about Democrats policies suggests a 'march to communism', or genocide, or any sort of foolish claims are made by Trump supporters.

So we have 2 options: 1 evil (completely corrupt) and the other not corrupt (who may have differences in policy but is not evil, not corrupt.
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Last edited by Segnosaur; 22nd June 2020 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:19 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Then not only is he lying when he is saying he wants Trump to be a 'one term president' (at best he doesn't really care, at worst he's outright lying), he's also an idiot.

Biden is not a 'communist'. He is not about to engage in genocide. And because Democrats take a much smarter view regarding social policies, abortions would probably decrease. (USA Today)

You can claim Biden's policies aren't what you want, but anyone who chooses not to vote for him can no longer condemn Trump's corruption.


Lesser of 2 evils is only a think of you actually have 2 evils.

Nothing about Democrats policies suggests a 'march to communism', or genocide, or any sort of foolish claims are made by Trump supporters.

So we have 2 options: 1 evil (completely corrupt) and the other not corrupt (who may have differences in policy but is not evil, not corrupt.
We are not debating if people here think the choice is obvious. We are discussing the voting behavior of people who obviously don't post here and may be deluded. Stating they are obviously foolish doesn't say much.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 22nd June 2020 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:22 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm asking you when have YOU voted for a true lesser of two evils? Someone that you would actually label as evil.
I may have disagreed with some Democratic or Republican nominees for President and Trump is the only one I have thought was actually evil.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:26 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I may have disagreed with some Democratic or Republican nominees for President and Trump is the only one I have thought was actually evil.
In that sense, your personal "lesser of two evils" stance (if it isn't your position, sorry, lot of posts and I may have lost track) has never been tested by you.

You literally have never had to vote for an evil candidate.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:38 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
In that sense, your personal "lesser of two evils" stance (if it isn't your position, sorry, lot of posts and I may have lost track) has never been tested by you.

You literally have never had to vote for an evil candidate.
I would still vote for the "lesser evil" if that were the situation.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:15 AM   #286
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“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, like not voting for the alternative."
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:27 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I would still vote for the "lesser evil" if that were the situation.
I view it as voting for the lesser of three evils when there's a Libertarian on the ticket.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:19 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, like not voting for the alternative."
Which is why they are encouraging Bolton to vote for Trump.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:21 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I would still vote for the "lesser evil" if that were the situation.
You don't know that.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 05:45 AM   #290
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So far, Bolton is not getting off to a great start. For one thing, he comes of as very uncomfortable in his own skin, feeling the need to point out the deficiencies of others and throwing around French and Latin quotes to prove his intellectual superiority. The only surprise so far (and I'm not even at the part of him being in the administration) is the glimmer of a possibility that Trump may possibly have the tiniest bit of self awareness. Trump says at a Mara Lago meeting that Bolton and he are a lot alike. Trump gets his insecurities from being the lesser son of a better (in this case meaning more successful) father. It's telling that Bolton makes no mention of his father or mother in his introduction I suspect Bolton gets his insecurities from being a scholarship kid, going to Yale as the son of a Baltimore fire fighter.

The net result of the insecurities is the same. Both have to define themselves by degrading others and are both oblivious to and untutored by their failures. Bolton clearly took nothing away from his Iraq failures and Trump, well, where to begin?

Bolton's description of Trump courting him early in the administration comes off as remarkably not self aware. Any objective observer of Bolton's dealings with the administration would conclude that Trump and his lackeys were toying with Bolton where Bolton sees it as them eating out of his hand. Where Trump and Bolton are also alike is that there's no concept of their jobs in public service as being about public service. Bolton has nothing but career ambitions and never once seems to consider what the country might need as being a factor in his attempts to get the jobs as SECSTATE or NSA.

Overall, I'm left with the impression that like Trump, Bolton sees his ambitions as being synonymous with the national interest.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 06:49 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Sure. I know Bolton is anti abortion. Goldwater conservative might be better, but whatever label is best I don't care.
You do know Goldwater supported Roe v. Wade, right?
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Old 23rd June 2020, 07:28 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
You do know Goldwater supported Roe v. Wade, right?
As I said, I don't care whatever label best describes Bolton.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 09:13 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I view it as voting for the lesser of three evils when there's a Libertarian on the ticket.
That's like the people that voted for Nader. Nader may have been on the ticket. But he really wasn't a choice.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 09:32 AM   #294
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
You do know Goldwater supported Roe v. Wade, right?

Later in his life, yes -- but not at the time the Roe v. Wade decision came down. When he ran for president in 1964 Barry Goldwater was strongly anti-abortion, and that continued to be the case in 1973 when the Roe v. Wade case was decided. Not until the 1980s did he change from opposing Roe v. Wade to supporting it.

Goldwater's views changed a lot as he grew older, and many people's perspective of him apparently is based on the updated version of Goldwater, from the 1980s on, rather than on the classic Goldwater of the 1960s and 1970s.

Claremont Review of Books printed a good article on this back in late 2005, and it's currently not behind a paywall, so I recommend reading it if you're not familiar with the significant changes that Goldwater's views underwent. Or, for those who don't have the time or inclination to read the whole article, here's a key excerpt:

Originally Posted by Andrew E. Busch in the Claremont Review of Books
The Goldwater Myth: Why Barry Goldwater was not a "Goldwater conservative."

Goldwater's move away from social conservatism came only in the twilight of his Senate career—and more starkly after he had left the Senate in 1987. Throughout the 1970s, he opposed abortion on demand and taxpayer funding of abortions. (He wavered on a constitutional amendment restricting abortion.) In 1980, in the midst of his last and most difficult Senate race, he endorsed the Human Life Amendment. Only in his final term did he adopt a pro-choice position, voting in 1983 against a constitutional amendment that would have reversed Roe v. Wade and returned legislative authority over abortion to the states.

And it's not just abortion where Goldwater's views changed considerably. In the 1960s he had been a strong promoter of school prayer (the big hot button issue for many social conservatives following the 1963 supreme court decision which struck down school prayer, until the Roe v. Wade decision came along 10 years later and replaced it in their hearts, minds, speeches and fund-raising letters). He had been a strong opponent of pornography and other things which he found offensive to morality and decency (such as homosexuality).

So why did he change? There are many reasons, but here's another quick passage from the Busch article about this:

Originally Posted by Andrew E. Busch in the Claremont Review of Books
Goldwater's shift was largely a reaction against the leaders of the New Right, for whom his dislike grew stronger as their influence increased. In 1981, Goldwater said of the leader of the Moral Majority, "Every good Christian should kick [Jerry] Falwell in the ass." He also had personal reasons: one daughter and three granddaughters of his had had abortions; and a grandson and a grandniece were homosexual. In 1937, his wife, Peggy, had become a founding member of Planned Parenthood of Arizona, and the couple remained active in the organization throughout Goldwater's Senate career. Though he initially rejected Planned Parenthood's position on abortion, his long association with the group would ultimately make a convert of him. For Goldwater, private considerations like these sometimes trumped abstract philosophy.

In 1964 Phyllis Schlafly wrote A Choice, Not an Echo, largely for the purpose of promoting Goldwater's presidential candidacy. Barry Goldwater made no attempt to distance himself from that book, because at that time she was a close ally of Barry Goldwater and their views on social issues were very similar. So if after reading the Claremont Review of Books article you'd like to learn more about what Barry Goldwater's views were like prior to his significant shift in the 1980s, you might find Schlafly's book helpful in getting a better picture.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 10:16 AM   #295
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Nova Land - thanks for that.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 10:44 AM   #296
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Some people who don't want to see Trump re-elected have taken offense at Bolton's statement that he won't be voting for Joe Biden. For example:

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Then not only is he lying when he is saying he wants Trump to be a 'one term president' (at best he doesn't really care, at worst he's outright lying), he's also an idiot.

No, Bolton's refusal to vote for Joe Biden does not mean he's lying about wanting Trump to be a one-term president, nor does it mean he's an idiot. Voting is actually one of the least effective actions Bolton could take to help keep Trump from getting re-elected.

Keep in mind that John Bolton only has one vote. (Well, assuming he doesn't engage in massive voter fraud, he himself only has one vote.) Whether he casts that vote for Trump, for Biden, for someone else, or doesn't vote at all, that one vote is unlikely to determine the election outcome.

But, you may be thinking, if Hillary Clinton had gotten 11,000 more votes in Michigan she'd have won Michigan's electoral votes. If she'd gotten 23,000 more votes in Wisconsin she'd have won Wisconsin's electoral votes. If she'd gotten 50,000 more votes in Pennsylvania she'd have won Pennsylvania's electoral votes. So anyone in those states who didn't vote for her in 2016 contributed to Trump's getting elected, and anyone who doesn't vote for Biden in 2020 is contributing to Trump's getting re-elected.

Except someone living in Michigan (or Wisconsin, or Pennsylvania, or any other state) only directly controls one vote. Changing that one vote doesn't change the outcome in that state, let alone in the electoral college. So if you want to call not voting, or voting third party, a contribution to Trump's victory you're free to do so, but it's a pretty insignificant contribution. To change the outcome a person needs to change at least tens of thousands of votes, and simply casting one's own ballot does not do that.

Now, there are right-wing religious folks who believe that if they cast a ballot for the candidate God prefers God will reward their faithfulness by bringing enough other people to the polls to make that candidate the winner. (They're wrong about that, but that shared belief does make them more inclined to go to the polls and vote thereby increasing the number of people voting for their candidate. Sometimes being irrational actually pays off!) And there may be New Agers with a similar belief that if they make the effort to go to the polls to vote for their preferred candidate that Karma or Gaia or some other mystical force will cause thousands and thousands of others to do the same and cause their candidate to win. But in reality, that's not how the universe works. By the time election day rolls around, whether you cast a ballot or not is not going to significantly effect the decision other people make about whether to vote and about whom to vote for.

Indeed, if a person wanted to help Biden win (or help Trump lose) a much more effective way to do that would be to spend the entire day finding people who are willing to vote for Biden and shuttling them to the polling place to make it easier for them to get there and to make sure they get there. In the hour or two it might take you to get through a line and vote -- adding a single vote to Biden's total -- you might be able instead to add dozens of votes to Biden's total. And if you did that all day, from the moment the polls opened until the moment the polls closed, you might be able to add hundreds of votes to Biden's total.

But that's almost certainly still not enough to change the outcome.

What would be much more helpful would be working months ahead of the election on effective efforts to persuade people to vote for Biden. That way you might be able to reach thousands of people -- maybe even tens of thousands if you have an effective online presence or if you have a few million dollars on hand to buy their votes. Or you might be able to reach lots of people, convince them of the importance of electing Biden and the value of reaching out to persuade others, and many of them follow your example and reach out in a friendly and persuasive manner to other people, and the people they reach likewise reach out in a friendly and persuasive manner to yet other people...

My point is that efforts at persuading people to vote for your candidate are a much more important and effective way of helping a candidate than voting for the candidate. Your single vote really won't have any significant effect on the outcome, but your efforts at winning votes for the candidate you support or convincing people not to vote for the candidate you oppose could conceivably have a much larger impact.

Whether Bolton personally votes for Biden won't significantly improve Biden's chance of winning and Trump's chance of losing. But if Bolton takes actions which convince people not to vote for Donald Trump -- such as, say, writing a book revealing bad things Trump has said and done and doing as much as he can to see that people read and consider the contents of that book -- that could significantly improve Biden's chance of winning and Trump's chance of losing. And that does appear to be what Bolton is doing.

Now, the people he's trying to reach aren't people who already dislike Trump and are planning to vote for Biden. The people he needs to reach if he hopes to effect the election outcome are people who might otherwise vote for Trump. And he doesn't even need to convince them to vote for Biden; he just needs to convince them not to vote for Trump.

Question: will these people, who are leaning toward Trump and might vote for him unless they're persuaded not to do that, be more likely to listen to someone who comes off as Democrat-lover, or are they more likely to listen to someone who comes off as disliking Democrats and what they stand for but totally disgusted by all the horrible things about Trump which he's going to tell them about? I suspect the latter. So saying he'd vote for Biden would likely weaken his message in relation to the people he needs to reach, and saying he's not going to vote for Biden would likely strengthen his message in relation to those people.

Which means it's quite possible Bolton is telling the truth when he says he wants Trump to be a one-term president, regardless of the fact he has said he won't be voting for Biden.

And since Bolton seems to understand that his simply voting for Biden wouldn't significantly improve the odds that Trump loses but speaking out publicly about what a bad and unfit president Trump is might significantly improve the odds that Trump loses, that indicates Bolton may not be an idiot either.

[There are many other things Bolton has said and done over the years which could lead someone like me to believe Bolton is not especially truthful and is not especially intelligent. All I'm saying is that this particular action of saying he's not personally going to vote for Biden doesn't provide evidence for either of those assertions.]
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Old 23rd June 2020, 10:46 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Nova Land - thanks for that.

You're welcome.

(And my apologies for the length of the other comment I just posted. I'll turn my computer off and shut up for a while now.)
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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:10 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Some people who don't want to see Trump re-elected have taken offense at Bolton's statement that he won't be voting for Joe Biden. For example:




No, Bolton's refusal to vote for Joe Biden does not mean he's lying about wanting Trump to be a one-term president, nor does it mean he's an idiot. Voting is actually one of the least effective actions Bolton could take to help keep Trump from getting re-elected.

Keep in mind that John Bolton only has one vote.
No, Bolton has one vote and the spotlight on him as he explains who he is voting for and why. If he wanted to make sure Trump lost then he would use his limited time in the spotlight to make the case for conservatives voting for Biden. The Lincoln Project has taken exactly that stand and is making that argument quite well. He could contribute to that effort rather than shy away from it. Assuming that defeating Trump is actually important.

And having done so he could vote for whoever he damn well pleases. Because it is just one vote and I don't really care who he votes for. That's not even the point of the question.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:18 PM   #299
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I believe he lives in Arlington so, in our screwed up election system, who he votes for won't matter. Virginia isn't in play this election.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:25 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I believe he lives in Arlington so, in our screwed up election system, who he votes for won't matter. Virginia isn't in play this election.
It's not in play?
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:49 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
No, Bolton has one vote and the spotlight on him as he explains who he is voting for and why. If he wanted to make sure Trump lost then he would use his limited time in the spotlight to make the case for conservatives voting for Biden.

No. You are mistaken in the idea that there is only one way to make sure Trump loses. There are at least two. One is to work to increase the number of votes Biden gets. Another is to decrease the number of votes Trump gets.

If someone can convince voters not to vote for Trump and to vote for Biden, that's great. But in the case of many potential Trump voters, it may be simpler and more achievable to simply get them to decide not to vote for Trump.

For some strong conservatives, thinking they have to vote for Biden if they don't vote for Trump may be a bridge too far. And if they think there are only two choices -- vote Biden or vote Trump -- and the more they think about Biden, the more they can't stand the thought of voting for him -- then that potential non-vote for Trump may switch back to a vote for Trump come election day.

So it makes sense for those who genuinely like what Joe Biden stands for and who genuinely like what they think he'll do if he's elected to make the case for people to vote for Joe Biden. Those folks are in a good position to make a strong and believable case for why they think Biden would be a good president and is well worth voting for.

And it makes sense for those who genuinely detest what Trump is doing and genuinely think we can't afford to have him continue being president to make the case for people not to vote for Trump. Those folks are in a good position to make a strong and believable case for why re-electing Trump is a mistake we can't afford to make.

Bolton appears to fall into the second category. He's not speaking out against Trump because he thinks Biden is great, he's speaking out because he thinks Trump is a disaster. That puts him in a good position to reach other conservatives who also aren't particularly keen on Biden but who can possibly be persuaded that keeping Trump in the White House is worse than having Biden in it.

My impression, and I could be wrong as I don't watch a lot of news, is that Bolton didn't go out of his way to say he doesn't plan to vote for Biden; he was asked by a reporter whether he planned to vote for Biden and he answered the question. But if our aim is seeing Trump defeated, then the answer he gave, that he doesn't plan to vote for Biden, is probably a better one for achieving that end. The people Bolton may be able to reach are people who aren't fond of Biden but are having doubts about Trump -- doubts someone like Bolton, who feels the same way, can help magnify until they make the decision not to vote for Trump. But if Bolton appears to be saying he likes Biden stands for, he'll be moving away from rather than drawing closer to those people. He'll be making himself someone they'll be less likely to listen to and someone who will be less able to convince them.

Segnosaur said that if someone says they don't plan to vote for Biden then they're lying if they say they don't want Trump re-elected. I'm saying that's wrong. It's quite possible to honestly not want to see Trump re-elected but to be unwilling to vote for Joe Biden.

If enough people can be convinced not to vote for Trump, then Joe Biden will win. And John Bolton appears to be working hard to convince people not to vote for Trump. If you really want to see Trump defeated, then calling people like Bolton -- people who plan not to vote for Trump and who are encouraging others not to vote for Trump -- insulting terms like liars and idiots is not a very good approach.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:41 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Quote:
I believe he lives in Arlington so, in our screwed up election system, who he votes for won't matter. Virginia isn't in play this election.
It's not in play?
Last opinion poll for Virginia had Biden up by ~10 points.

To me though, even if its unlikely to make a difference in the electoral college (or in the senate), I still think there is value in voting Democrat.

The republicans need to not only be beaten, but completely decimated, as a clear message from the voters that corruption is not to be tolerated, either from the president, or from a complicit senate. They need to see their support drop everywhere, so that they don't get it through their heads that they can regain power by cheating like they have in the past (but just "cheat better").

If its a state that the democrats will probably win? Still good to see more Democratic votes, to tell the republicans "You will never have a chance here unless you change". If its a solid republican state? Still good to see more Democratic votes, to hopefully send the message that "your control is slipping... do better".

Bolton's "I won't vote Democrat" won't help the Republicans, but it won't hurt them much either.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:48 PM   #303
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I agree with Nova Land that there are a lot of Republicans who don't care for Trump but, for various reasons, won't vote for Biden. It's better they feel they can legitimately not vote for Trump but not vote for Biden. I think a lot of people, Dems and GOP, felt that way in 2016. They either didn't vote at all or wrote in a name.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:50 PM   #304
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First, I'm glad you came back. Your long posts are some of the few long posts I read around here.

Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
No. You are mistaken in the idea that there is only one way to make sure Trump loses. There are at least two. One is to work to increase the number of votes Biden gets. Another is to decrease the number of votes Trump gets.
The way I see it he can take a full swing at Trump by encouraging other to vote for Biden, or he can take a jab at Trump by encouraging others to write in another conservative. He chose to take a jab instead of a full swing.

Maybe you are right, maybe he will convince some who aren't ready to take a full swing that they too can just take a jab.

Maybe I just hope you are right.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:07 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Last opinion poll for Virginia had Biden up by ~10 points.

To me though, even if its unlikely to make a difference in the electoral college (or in the senate), I still think there is value in voting Democrat.

The republicans need to not only be beaten, but completely decimated, as a clear message from the voters that corruption is not to be tolerated, either from the president, or from a complicit senate. They need to see their support drop everywhere, so that they don't get it through their heads that they can regain power by cheating like they have in the past (but just "cheat better").

If its a state that the democrats will probably win? Still good to see more Democratic votes, to tell the republicans "You will never have a chance here unless you change". If its a solid republican state? Still good to see more Democratic votes, to hopefully send the message that "your control is slipping... do better".

Bolton's "I won't vote Democrat" won't help the Republicans, but it won't hurt them much either.
It's early. Likely to tighten up.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:49 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It's not in play?
Biden is at 50-51 and Trump is high 30s to low forties. A motivated black turnout and equally motivated turnout from the government sector keeps Virginia safely blue. Clinton won it by six percent with a lot of the black vote staying home. Call me crazy but I don't think black voters will stay home. Dems control the election process so though districts are gerrymandered, it won't matter and voter suppression won't be an issue.
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Old 24th June 2020, 12:44 AM   #307
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I've just watched Stephen Colbert's interview with John Bolton - what a despicable human being John Bolton is.
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Old 24th June 2020, 01:20 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I've just watched Stephen Colbert's interview with John Bolton - what a despicable human being John Bolton is.
Not sure I've ever seen Colbert going so easy on someone.

Bolton made it clear that he prefers a treasonous Republican over an upstanding Democrat.
That his responsibility to address corruption in the White House ends with telling the White House lawyers.

Bolton wants power without accountability, just like every other Republican supporting Trump.
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Old 24th June 2020, 03:29 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
What would be much more helpful would be working months ahead of the election on effective efforts to persuade people to vote for Biden.
By, say, being a prominent conservative and publicly saying that you will vote for Biden, thereby influencing other conservatives to follow your lead? As opposed to publicly saying that you will not, thereby discouraging other conservatives from following your lead.
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Old 24th June 2020, 04:19 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
500 clams for a bootleg copy? Ooooaw! How I'd love to purchase one or two friends in that warehouse!

Just one pallet. Just one.

After suborning a few hundred reporters, I could finish with a good shower. I think I'd need one.
It was floating around the 'net last week.
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Old 24th June 2020, 04:37 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Bolton made it clear that he prefers a treasonous Republican over an upstanding Democrat.
Remember that he was the one who went to Russia to give a speech to a completely fake Putin funded "gun rights" organisation.
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Old 24th June 2020, 05:48 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I've just watched Stephen Colbert's interview with John Bolton - what a despicable human being John Bolton is.

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Old 24th June 2020, 05:59 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Not sure I've ever seen Colbert going so easy on someone.

Bolton made it clear that he prefers a treasonous Republican over an upstanding Democrat.
That his responsibility to address corruption in the White House ends with telling the White House lawyers.

Bolton wants power without accountability, just like every other Republican supporting Trump.
This assumes Bolton thinks Biden is an upstanding democrat (or that upstanding democrat is a not evil).
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Old 24th June 2020, 06:14 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
This assumes Bolton thinks Biden is an upstanding democrat (or that upstanding democrat is a not evil).
He said about Biden, unlike Trump who he called incompetent, easily fooled and fundamentally corrupt.

No, Bolton explicitly puts Party before Country, and proudly so.

His argument against the Impeachment was that Democrats didn't ask nicely.
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Old 24th June 2020, 09:00 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I've just watched Stephen Colbert's interview with John Bolton - what a despicable human being John Bolton is.
I've stopped listening to his book. I had enough at the point where he described a plan to attack North Korea, engage in regime change and spoke with such certainty as to how China and North Korea would react. This would be the same failing he had with Iraq.

He complains about the intellectual laziness in others but there's no evidence he's applied an ounce of brain power to the possibility of enemy courses of action other than conforms with his plan. China and North Korea having both nuclear and chemical weapons have a variety of courses of action available to them that deserve more consideration than Bolton's hand waive. Unlike a mature adult, Bolton is untutored by his failures.
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Old 24th June 2020, 09:29 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I've stopped listening to his book. I had enough at the point where he described a plan to attack North Korea, engage in regime change and spoke with such certainty as to how China and North Korea would react. This would be the same failing he had with Iraq.

He complains about the intellectual laziness in others but there's no evidence he's applied an ounce of brain power to the possibility of enemy courses of action other than conforms with his plan. China and North Korea having both nuclear and chemical weapons have a variety of courses of action available to them that deserve more consideration than Bolton's hand waive. Unlike a mature adult, Bolton is untutored by his failures.
Of course, from his perspective the thing the US did wrongly in Iraq was not to hand the Iraqis the broken thing earlier.
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Old 25th June 2020, 09:12 AM   #317
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Yet more legal stuff regarding the book:

from: Politico
A new lawsuit is seeking to lay bare how the White House censored former national security adviser John Bolton’s book and whether the passages officials wanted deleted were true national security secrets or just embarrassing to President Donald Trump.
The Freedom of Information act lawsuit filed early Thursday in Washington demands details on the prepublication review process
...

In this case, its not Bolton who is involved in the lawsuit, but other groups concerned about government transparency.

(The article suggests that there may be problems with the request, since the NSC is less responsive than other government groups/agencies.)
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Old 25th June 2020, 09:37 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
He said about Biden, unlike Trump who he called incompetent, easily fooled and fundamentally corrupt.

No, Bolton explicitly puts Party before Country, and proudly so.

His argument against the Impeachment was that Democrats didn't ask nicely.
How do you know he doesn't think the country is best served by the republican party?
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Old 26th June 2020, 01:59 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How do you know he doesn't think the country is best served by the republican party?

It's not about the GOP, since the GOP, especially according to Bolton, is not currently in charge, Trump is - everything bad that has happened under him is the fault of RINOs, i.e. Republicans unlike Bolton.

Bolton doesn't consider Trump to be a Republican, but would rather have a GOP led by Trump than give the Dems a win.
The good of the country doesn't come into it, not for Bolton, not for any Republican objecting to Trump's impeachment.
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Old 15th September 2020, 08:22 AM   #320
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Some news:
"Justice Dept. Opens Criminal Inquiry Into John Bolton’s Book
Investigators are examining whether the former national security adviser illegally disclosed classified information."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/u...stigation.html

Trying very hard to not indulge in some schadenfreude 😇
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