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Old 26th August 2020, 03:25 PM   #241
Squeegee Beckenheim
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FWIW, the Opening Arguments podcast did another deep dive into the postal service this week.
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Old 26th August 2020, 04:22 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I had really thought that adding a sarcasm smiley for that paragraph would have been unnecessary and superfluous.

Perhaps I was mistaken.

Then again, perhaps you, too, were indulging in a bit of sarcasm.

Who knew these things would be so complicated?
Indeed, I was.
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Old 26th August 2020, 06:00 PM   #243
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I'm eagerly awaiting my mail in fraud ballot for the general election. I'll probably vote for the lady across the street again.
And because I'm too cheap to stick a stamp on it, I'll drop it in the locked box behind the courthouse. From which I'm sure MS13 will be taking all the ballots and replacing them with ones for Biden and Communism!
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Old 26th August 2020, 06:33 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm eagerly awaiting my mail in fraud ballot for the general election. I'll probably vote for the lady across the street again.
And because I'm too cheap to stick a stamp on it, I'll drop it in the locked box behind the courthouse. From which I'm sure MS13 will be taking all the ballots and replacing them with ones for Biden and Communism!
Which will give us a socialist utopia with all its horror!
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Old 27th August 2020, 05:11 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm eagerly awaiting my mail in fraud ballot for the general election. I'll probably vote for the lady across the street again.
And because I'm too cheap to stick a stamp on it, I'll drop it in the locked box behind the courthouse. From which I'm sure MS13 will be taking all the ballots and replacing them with ones for Biden and Communism!
That's assuming that the rascals don't steal it from your mailbox before you get your hands on it.
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Old 27th August 2020, 05:19 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
PS: I doubt that sending in two applications would cause a problem. Until time comes to start sending out ballots, they are simply recording in a database which voters have requested ballots. When your first application arrives at their office, they'll check off that you've applied to receive a ballot. When your second application arrives, they'll see when they enter the data that you've already been listed to get a ballot and leave it at that. If their system is so screwed up that they'd enter you to receive two ballots, then whoever designed their database system needs to be fired and replaced.
Well, happy update, the website now shows my initial request for an absentee ballot has been processed. No date is given for the expected delivery of said ballot (there is a field for it- it is just blank right now) but, it does make sense that they will not be printed until the final roster of candidates is confirmed.
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Old 27th August 2020, 10:11 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Well, happy update, the website now shows my initial request for an absentee ballot has been processed. No date is given for the expected delivery of said ballot (there is a field for it- it is just blank right now) but, it does make sense that they will not be printed until the final roster of candidates is confirmed.
And a note - if for whatever reason you change your mind and decide to vote in person you will still be able to do so. If do so, you should bring in your ballot as well as the envelope for it; that will let them spoil the ballot and you can vote in person as normal. If you don't bring the ballot and envelope, you will have to cast a provisional ballot.

Hopefully, a drop-box system will be set up like it was for the primary.
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Old 27th August 2020, 10:17 AM   #248
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Wohl back in action, maybe.

Quote:
Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson is warning people after her office got a recording of a "racially charged" robocall targeting Detroiters that she said is to deter people from voting by mail.

The robocall, which is posted to YouTube, said it is a civil rights organization founded by far-right conspiracy theorist Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman.
https://www.wxyz.com/news/election-2...mail-in-voting

Wohl might have finally committed a big-boy crime!
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Old 27th August 2020, 11:18 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Wohl back in action, maybe.



https://www.wxyz.com/news/election-2...mail-in-voting

Wohl might have finally committed a big-boy crime!
For their part, the two are denying involvement. But they’ve been so clumsy in the past their defense of “who would be that clumsy” rings a bit hollow. I would not be surprised if they started this thing before realizing it was potentially illegal and now are in panic defense mode. That Burkman hung up whe the question about the calls was made rather than a simple denial is telling.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jacob-...eme?ref=scroll
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Old 27th August 2020, 11:21 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
And a note - if for whatever reason you change your mind and decide to vote in person you will still be able to do so. If do so, you should bring in your ballot as well as the envelope for it; that will let them spoil the ballot and you can vote in person as normal. If you don't bring the ballot and envelope, you will have to cast a provisional ballot.

Hopefully, a drop-box system will be set up like it was for the primary.
Are you saying that I have now created a problem for myself WRT voting in person?

Our plan was to get the mail in ballots "just in case", but I was still planning on in person voting.

Will I have a problem doing the "in person" thing now that I have requested an absentee ballot?
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Old 27th August 2020, 11:48 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Are you saying that I have now created a problem for myself WRT voting in person?

Our plan was to get the mail in ballots "just in case", but I was still planning on in person voting.

Will I have a problem doing the "in person" thing now that I have requested an absentee ballot?

I don't know the answers for your state, but there has to be a mechanism to serve voters who didn't get their mail-in ballot, or who lost it, or who received it too late to return it, or who got scared by the recent publicity for the USPS. I suspect that if you vote in person, with or without your mail-in ballot, they will cross your name off their list, and then if you -- or someone claiming to be you -- submits the paper ballot later, it would be invalidated. That's the whole point of maintaining voter rolls and requiring voters to sign their ballot envelopes.
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Old 27th August 2020, 08:03 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Are you saying that I have now created a problem for myself WRT voting in person?

Our plan was to get the mail in ballots "just in case", but I was still planning on in person voting.

Will I have a problem doing the "in person" thing now that I have requested an absentee ballot?
If they have you in the rolls as having been sent a mail in ballot, and you try to vote in person, you will have to cast a provisional ballot. However, If you bring your mail in ballot AND the envelope for it, they will spoil the mail in ballot, then you can vote as you normally would have. The downside to this is that it looks like the training for the poll workers hasn't been there best. They are preventing people from voting twice. If they can spoil the mail in ballot, you are good to go, if not the provisional ballot is used so they'll wait until after the mail in deadline to see if your mail in ballot arrived before entering your provisional one.

Your best bet would be to drop your mail in ballot into one of the drop boxes should they be put up again (currently working through the court system because the Trump admin is trying to stop them, but they are badly losing).
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Old 27th August 2020, 08:08 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I don't know the answers for your state, but there has to be a mechanism to serve voters who didn't get their mail-in ballot, or who lost it, or who received it too late to return it, or who got scared by the recent publicity for the USPS. I suspect that if you vote in person, with or without your mail-in ballot, they will cross your name off their list, and then if you -- or someone claiming to be you -- submits the paper ballot later, it would be invalidated. That's the whole point of maintaining voter rolls and requiring voters to sign their ballot envelopes.

From what I have been told in PA, if you were sent a mail in ballot, you can cast a provisional ballot in person,. That is, unless you give them the ballot and envelope (so it gets spoiled), then you can vote normally.
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Old 28th August 2020, 04:53 AM   #254
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The Legal Eagle on YouTube just had a really informative episode on this topic.

https://youtu.be/3kmXpMhZqOg
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Old 28th August 2020, 05:36 AM   #255
Distracted1
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
If they have you in the rolls as having been sent a mail in ballot, and you try to vote in person, you will have to cast a provisional ballot. However, If you bring your mail in ballot AND the envelope for it, they will spoil the mail in ballot, then you can vote as you normally would have. The downside to this is that it looks like the training for the poll workers hasn't been there best. They are preventing people from voting twice. If they can spoil the mail in ballot, you are good to go, if not the provisional ballot is used so they'll wait until after the mail in deadline to see if your mail in ballot arrived before entering your provisional one.

Your best bet would be to drop your mail in ballot into one of the drop boxes should they be put up again (currently working through the court system because the Trump admin is trying to stop them, but they are badly losing).
Well, ******
This backfired. We would not even have bothered with the request had they not sent the application to us. Just voted normally.
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Old 28th August 2020, 05:46 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Well, ******
This backfired. We would not even have bothered with the request had they not sent the application to us. Just voted normally.
It didn't backfire. If you want to vote normally, just bring your mail in ballot and it's envelope along with you to your polling place.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 04:32 AM   #257
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Joe Kennedy III's challenge of incumbent Senator Ed Markey resulted in a spectacular defeat last night.

Makes you wonder why it was worth it to spend all this money and political capital on a safe Democratic seat with a challenge from the right. Of course, Nancy Pelosi endorsed Kennedy. This should be brought up any time the establishment dems start crying about progressive primary challenges.

My only regret is that I had already cast my mail ballot before the Pelosi endorsement. It would have made the spite vote against Kennedy all the sweeter.

Kennedy made history by being the first of his family to lose an election in Mass.

Kennedy was best known for such bold positions as "a lawyer for every citizen going through medical bankruptcy" and "I oppose legal pot because it makes it harder for cops to search cars".

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/...077696/photo/1

thoughts and prayers to Kennedy as he is reduced to living off vast family wealth in a compound in Hyannis while pulling himself up by his bootstraps to get a lobbying job.
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Old 2nd September 2020, 04:39 AM   #258
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Ain’t nothing wrong with voting by mail.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 11:06 PM   #259
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Trump is so concerned about election fraud that he is telling his supporters to vote twice.
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Old 3rd September 2020, 11:26 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Trump is so concerned about election fraud that he is telling his supporters to vote twice.
oh please arrest anyone who tries!
Make them make the case in Court that their President told them so!
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Old 4th September 2020, 01:05 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Trump is so concerned about election fraud that he is telling his supporters to vote twice.
I still think that President Trump is confident about winning the upcoming election (and I think with good cause ), but in the event that he doesn't, he wants to cast as much doubt on the process - not least because it may be the basis for challenging the result in some states.

With friendly judges he may be able to get the result overturned.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:23 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I still think that President Trump is confident about winning the upcoming election (and I think with good cause ), but in the event that he doesn't, he wants to cast as much doubt on the process - not least because it may be the basis for challenging the result in some states.

With friendly judges he may be able to get the result overturned.
Sometimes I think you are bit prone for concern trolling.

At this moment Trump does not have good cause for optimism. He still has his base, but it has been eroded by few points. Not much in historical terms but modern polarization is so strong that this has been a very significant movement. The election is likely to be tighter than the current numbers but Trump will still face an uphill battle. He will also face formidable obstacles in trying to sabotage the election or deny its result - the machinery is unwieldy but it will grind on. And when the push comes to shove, it's pretty likely that the Republican elites will balk at actual coup against democracy. Mind you, not so likely as to be an impossibility.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:26 AM   #263
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Not being an American, it's easy for me to say this, but ...

While I agree that The Don may be exaggerating the danger, it's very real nonetheless, and American voters should behave as if The Don is absolutely right.
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Old 4th September 2020, 02:27 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Sometimes I think you are bit prone for concern trolling.
I may be, but I've been right too much in the last five years for comfort.

Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
At this moment Trump does not have good cause for optimism. He still has his base, but it has been eroded by few points. Not much in historical terms but modern polarization is so strong that this has been a very significant movement. The election is likely to be tighter than the current numbers but Trump will still face an uphill battle. He will also face formidable obstacles in trying to sabotage the election or deny its result - the machinery is unwieldy but it will grind on. And when the push comes to shove, it's pretty likely that the Republican elites will balk at actual coup against democracy. Mind you, not so likely as to be an impossibility.
The vaccine which will save everyone will be announced a couple of weeks before the election.

Millions of jobs will have been created (though many more millions will still be out of work).

The GOP is working hard to suppress the vote.

I fear it looks very rosy for President Trump
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Old 4th September 2020, 03:49 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I may be, but I've been right too much in the last five years for comfort.



The vaccine which will save everyone will be announced a couple of weeks before the election.

Millions of jobs will have been created (though many more millions will still be out of work).

The GOP is working hard to suppress the vote.

I fear it looks very rosy for President Trump
People don't tend to look at trends - they look at their own current economic situation and the current economic situation of their locality. And it won't look pretty. Quick miracle vaccine is already widely distrusted. Voter suppression is still rather a marginal factor. And then there is this Biden lead which in this hyper-polarized modern era is very hard to erode outside its margins. As this current hysteria shows, Trump is not very happy about the situation himself.
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Old 4th September 2020, 04:25 AM   #266
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Incitement to commit a crime is itself a crime in the US.

Voting twice is a crime.

Trump has just committed an indictable criminal offence, on record!
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Old 4th September 2020, 04:29 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
Incitement to commit a crime is itself a crime in the US.

Voting twice is a crime.

Trump has just committed an indictable criminal offence, on record!
that only applies to Democrats.

Republicans don't believe in the Rule of Law.
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Old 4th September 2020, 06:14 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I may be, but I've been right too much in the last five years for comfort.

The vaccine which will save everyone will be announced a couple of weeks before the election.
.....
Some of us are old enough to remember "Peace is at hand!" a week before the 1972 election.
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:23 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Some of us are old enough to remember "Peace is at hand!" a week before the 1972 election.
I voted for Nixon in that one, but not because of that. McGovern was a loon.
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Old 4th September 2020, 03:21 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Some of us are old enough to remember "Peace is at hand!" a week before the 1972 election.
As I remember it peace was at hand. Or if not actually peace, an end to U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
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Old 4th September 2020, 04:37 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I may be, but I've been right too much in the last five years for comfort.



The vaccine which will save be claimed to save everyone will be announced a couple of weeks before the election.

Millions of jobs will have been created refilled (though many more millions will still be out of work).

The GOP is working hard to suppress the vote.

I fear it looks very rosy for President Trump
FTFY
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Old 4th September 2020, 04:39 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I voted for Nixon in that one, but not because of that. McGovern was a loon.

So did I, and for much the same reasons.

It was, however, the very last time I ever voted for a Repugnican.

Nothing in the ensuing decades has caused me to regret this.
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Old 4th September 2020, 11:39 PM   #273
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He's again called on supporters to vote twice

Barr refuses to condemn Trump's words, claiming ignorance of the law
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Old 5th September 2020, 12:40 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's how I like my AG: no clue of one of the most important laws in the land.
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Old 5th September 2020, 02:01 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
FTFY
Yes, that's the truth, I was giving the GOP version.
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Old 5th September 2020, 02:17 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That's how I like my AG: no clue of one of the most important laws in the land.
He does seem to keep going back to the "Don't ask me, I'm terrible at my job!" defence.
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Old 5th September 2020, 06:48 AM   #277
thaiboxerken
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
He does seem to keep going back to the "Don't ask me, I'm terrible at my job!" defence.
To be fair, his job isn't the law. His job is to protect Trump and command Trumps stormtroopers.
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Old 5th September 2020, 02:13 PM   #278
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I’m going to give Barr this one. Election laws vary by state and can be complex. North Carolina laws are not clear on whether or not it is illegal to vote twice in some circumstances by submitting a ballot both in-person and absentee.

In some states if a person is sent an absentee ballot then they must vote using that ballot and cannot vote in person. In other states a person can bring their absentee ballot and envelope to the polling place on election day and request that it be spoiled and then vote in person. That way they only ever possess one valid ballot.

North Carolina is a bit different. If a person is sent an absentee ballot but wants to vote in person, they can simply not send the absentee ballot and then vote at the polls. They do not need to have the absentee ballot spoiled.

Absentee ballots received are registered and the names of people for whom a ballot has been received are removed from the polling record before the polls open on election day. If an absentee ballot has been received, their name will not be on the polling list and they will not be allowed to vote in person.

If a voter has sent an absentee ballot, they should not go to their polling place to attempt to vote or to check if their absentee ballot has been received. There an app for that. And a website. Going to the polling place just ties up things at the polls and could even potentially be construed as an attempt to commit fraud by voting twice.

However, there is some overlap that causes issues where the law is not clear. Under North Carolina law it is a felony “For any person with intent to commit a fraud to register or vote at more than one precinct or more than one time, or to induce another to do so, in the same primary or election.” (N.C.G.S. 163.275(7))

Note that is only “with intent to commit a fraud”. But what if someone had mailed an absentee ballot some time ago and it is still not showing as received on election day and they suspect it is lost in the mail? Or someone drops an absentee ballot in the mail on election day but then find out the ballot has to be received by the county office within 3 days of the election and they know the mail is slow and it likely won’t be delivered in time?

If such a person were to vote in person knowing that the absentee ballot has not been received and will be spoiled by voting in person, is that committing a fraud to vote twice or is that simply part of the way the system is meant to work?

North Carolina has not been clear. The only advice the State Board of Elections gives for that is to call the contact the county board of elections with questions about your ballot status. The resolution is unclear. Do they just have to hope that the absentee ballot is received? Should they just vote in person? Should they fill out a provisional ballot? Their does not appear to be a clear answer.

Barr would not be expected to know all of the election law details of every state. And in this case even looking at the law it is not clear whether submitting two ballots in some circumstances would be illegal.

That said, Trump’s advice is terrible. Don’t attempt to test the election process. Don’t go to the polls to check a ballot status. Don’t attempt to have more than one vote counted.
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Old 5th September 2020, 02:29 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
As I remember it peace was at hand. Or if not actually peace, an end to U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

Is. Why would he say "was," as if it passed us by?
Quote:
On October 26, 1972, twelve days before the election on November 7, the United States' chief negotiator, the presidential National Security Advisor Henry Kissinger, appeared at a press conference held at the White House and announced, "We believe that peace is at hand."[3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_surprise
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Old 5th September 2020, 02:37 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I voted for Nixon in that one, but not because of that. McGovern was a loon.

That was how the Repubs portrayed him. But he was a responsible JFK Democrat, probably somewhere to the right of Bernie Sanders, not to mention a decorated war hero, a university professor and a two-term U.S. senator. Considering what Nixon wrought, McGovern was the better choice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_McGovern
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