Split Thread: Is Ukraine to blame for Putin's invasion

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Michel H

The Ukrainian children who have been sent to Russia are usually not "normal children" living within normal families, they are war orphans for example.

In addition, unhappy parents seem to have a possibility of going to Russia to bring them back.

This is explained in this article, which has probably a somewhat Western perspective.

I assume Russia's motivations are a mix of selfishness, of political calculation and of humanitarian considerations.

And the ICRC should be responsible for them and reuniting them with their families.

Those children are hostages being held as leverage.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Craig4

And the ICRC should be responsible for them and reuniting them with their families.

Those children are hostages being held as leverage.

Probably being "educated" as to why Ukraine is not a real nation or people, and how evil the West is.

[ginjawarrior]

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Probably being "educated" as to why Ukraine is not a real nation or people, and how evil the West is.

Wait till they're old enough to be sent as cannon fodder...


https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraina/com...w_a_kidnapped/

[Michel H]

Some more information about the issue of displaced Ukrainian children, far away from the shells, missiles, bombs, power cuts and extreme poverty resulting from war.

The Human Rights Commissioner of Russia Mrs. Tatyana Moskalkova has expressed the view that Ukrainian-speaking children in Russia should be provided with opportunities to study their native language:

Quote:

“There were kids who said: ‘We want to be in Russia, but we would like to continue learning the Ukrainian language.’ If it’s their native language, then, of course, why not,” Moskalkova said. ... Moskalkova also discussed allegations that Russia had carried out the “unlawful deportation” of children from Ukraine. ... Moskalkova said she had repeatedly raised the issue with officials in Ukraine, requesting that they provide lists of children deemed to have been “forcibly deported.” However, the human rights commissioner said that she had not received a response, and that discussions with UN representatives had likewise not yielded any evidence to back up the claims.

(https://www.rt.com/russia/573867-ukr...ren-education/).

Some members of this forum have pointed out that it is Russia, through its invasion started in February 2022, which is (mostly) responsible for the degradation of living conditions of children living in occupied territories.

Yes, I agree there is certainly a lot of truth in such a statement. But it remains true that, the war situation being what it is, there are probably some children who benefit from being displaced to a more quiet and peaceful environment. Apparently, some kids (even of Ukrainian culture) ask for this.

The article I linked to above is interesting because it shows (or seems to show ...) that the Russians are not all blood thirsty monsters. This is apparently not so obvious for some members here. A good realization of this fact could be a pre-condition for some kind of peace settlement.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Some more information about the issue of displaced Ukrainian children, far away from the shells, missiles, bombs, power cuts and extreme poverty resulting from war.

The Human Rights Commissioner of Russia Mrs. Tatyana Moskalkova has expressed the view that Ukrainian-speaking children in Russia should be provided with opportunities to study their native language:

(https://www.rt.com/russia/573867-ukr...ren-education/).

Some members of this forum have pointed out that it is Russia, through its invasion started in February 2022, which is (mostly) responsible for the degradation of living conditions of children living in occupied territories.

Yes, I agree there is certainly a lot of truth in such a statement. But it remains true that, the war situation being what it is, there are probably some children who benefit from being displaced to a more quiet and peaceful environment. Apparently, some kids (even of Ukrainian culture) ask for this.

The article I linked to above is interesting because it shows (or seems to show ...) that the Russians are not all blood thirsty monsters. This is apparently not so obvious for some members here. A good realization of this fact could be a pre-condition for some kind of peace settlement.

Invading a country in order to exterminate their sense of nationhood and then kidnapping tens of thousands of their children and bringing them to your country in order to "protect" them but also reeducate and deprogram them regarding their "Nazi" parents, is a total war crime. If Russia was really concerned about the welfare of the kids and had no political motives, they would move them to Belarus, or western Ukraine, or some third party.

This stinks of Lebensborn.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Michel H

Some more information about the issue of displaced Ukrainian children, far away from the shells, missiles, bombs, power cuts and extreme poverty resulting from war.

The Human Rights Commissioner of Russia Mrs. Tatyana Moskalkova has expressed the view that Ukrainian-speaking children in Russia should be provided with opportunities to study their native language:

(https://www.rt.com/russia/573867-ukr...ren-education/).

Some members of this forum have pointed out that it is Russia, through its invasion started in February 2022, which is (mostly) responsible for the degradation of living conditions of children living in occupied territories.

Yes, I agree there is certainly a lot of truth in such a statement. But it remains true that, the war situation being what it is, there are probably some children who benefit from being displaced to a more quiet and peaceful environment. Apparently, some kids (even of Ukrainian culture) ask for this.

The article I linked to above is interesting because it shows (or seems to show ...) that the Russians are not all blood thirsty monsters. This is apparently not so obvious for some members here. A good realization of this fact could be a pre-condition for some kind of peace settlement.

The article is from Russia Today and so it's pure, unadulterated Russian propaganda and can safely ignored.

To be honest Russian responsibility for the degradation of living standards dates to at least the invasion of 2014 and probably well before that due to their attempts to destabilise Ukraine since the 1990s.

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by The Don

The article is from Russia Today and so it's pure, unadulterated Russian propaganda and can safely ignored.

On the other hand, your post could be one (more) attempt to quickly and easily dismiss some information you don't like, to try to emphasize the information that you like, from Western news outlets for example.

I have generally found RT to be an excellent source of information, comparable in quality to the BBC or to the Guardian, but with different emphases.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Michel H

On the other hand, your post could be one (more) attempt to quickly and easily dismiss some information you don't like, to try to emphasize the information that you like, from Western news outlets for example.

I have generally found RT to be an excellent source of information, comparable in quality to the BBC or to the Guardian, but with different emphases.

People have left RT due to them being pressured to push the Russian govt. line.

Putin himself chooses their head.

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Hercules56

If Russia was really concerned about the welfare of the kids and had no political motives, they would move them to Belarus, or western Ukraine, or some third party.

I don't know about Belarus, but I believe Western Ukraine has already taken a large number of refugees.

Refugees might therefore get better accomodation and living conditions in Russia.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by Michel H

On the other hand, your post could be one (more) attempt to quickly and easily dismiss some information you don't like, to try to emphasize the information that you like, from Western news outlets for example.

I have generally found RT to be an excellent source of information, comparable in quality to the BBC or to the Guardian, but with different emphases.

You find this because you are a Russian apologist with a substantial appetite for Russian propaganda.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Michel H

I don't know about Belarus, but I believe Western Ukraine has already taken a large number of refugees.

Refugees might therefore get better accomodation and living conditions in Russia.

Again, its illegal to invade a country and force the inhabitants to resettle in your country. Especially unaccompanied children.

Somehow you keep missing this point.

Perhaps the USA should invade Kaliningrad, grab 50,000 children and send them to Berlin for reeducation.

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Again, its illegal to invade a country and force the inhabitants to resettle in your country. Especially unaccompanied children.

Somehow you keep missing this point.

No, I don't miss this point, because I have said I don't know how many times (and even again a few minutes ago) that I blame Putin for starting what he calls "a special military operation".

Russia has some partial excuses (such as unfair heavy "sanctions" and fresh water to Crimea cut-off), but these do not amount to a full justification.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Michel H

No, I don't miss this point, because I have said I don't know how many times (and even again a few minutes ago) that I blame Putin for starting what he calls "a special military operation".

Russia has some partial excuses (such as unfair heavy "sanctions" and fresh water to Crimea cut-off), but these do not amount to a full justification.

And yet you appear to be suggesting that Putin kidnapping tens of thousands of Ukrianian children and shipping them to Russia for reeducation, against their parents' wishes, may be somehow benevolent.

[Michel H]

Originally Posted by Hercules56

And yet you appear to be suggesting that Putin kidnapping tens of thousands of Ukrianian children and shipping them to Russia for reeducation, against their parents' wishes, may be somehow benevolent.

I am not aware that "tens of thousands of Ukrainian children were displaced to Russia against their parents' wishes". What I do know is that some Ukrainian children were moved to Russia, not necessarily for "reeducation", perhaps simply for their own good, with a protection purpose of orphans, for example.

The Human Rights Commissioner of Russia said that Ukrainian-speaking children should be able to study in their own language, and that she could not find a single example of a child displaced against their will.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

This would be the same child friendly Russia where your child gets removed and you get arrested when they make a drawing indicating they oppose the special military operation?

Yeah, I'm sure their government won't find anything wrong with how it acts.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Michel H

The Human Rights Commissioner of Russia said that Ukrainian-speaking children should be able to study in their own language, and that she could not find a single example of a child displaced against their will.

And the Nazi's called it "evacuating" Jews.

[Hercules56]

Originally Posted by Michel H

I am not aware that "tens of thousands of Ukrainian children were displaced to Russia against their parents' wishes". What I do know is that some Ukrainian children were moved to Russia, not necessarily for "reeducation", perhaps simply for their own good, with a protection purpose of orphans, for example.

The Human Rights Commissioner of Russia said that Ukrainian-speaking children should be able to study in their own language, and that she could not find a single example of a child displaced against their will.

That's adorable.

I wonder what they have to say about the intense crackdown on freedom of speech and freedom of press in Russia since the war began. Something tells me they didn't have much to say.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Michel H

On the other hand, your post could be one (more) attempt to quickly and easily dismiss some information you don't like, to try to emphasize the information that you like, from Western news outlets for example.

I have generally found RT to be an excellent source of information, comparable in quality to the BBC or to the Guardian, but with different emphases.

Because you're a delusional vatnik. Russia Today is garbage. It's always been garbage.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Michel H

I am not aware that "tens of thousands of Ukrainian children were displaced to Russia against their parents' wishes". What I do know is that some Ukrainian children were moved to Russia, not necessarily for "reeducation", perhaps simply for their own good, with a protection purpose of orphans, for example.

The Human Rights Commissioner of Russia said that Ukrainian-speaking children should be able to study in their own language, and that she could not find a single example of a child displaced against their will.

Orcs don't do things for anyone's own good except for themselves. I certainly don't expect an orc kidnapper to say there was anyone who didn't want to go with them. And what would you expect Ukrainian children to say after seeing what the orcs did to their family, friends, and communities? Russian behavior is indistinguishable from that of the Einsatzgruppen. Why would a Ukrainian child say they didn't want to go with their kidnappers when they knew their kidnappers were also mass murderers?

[dudalb]

God, Michael H is hopeless. He believes any crap that comes out of Putin's mouth.
ANybody who thinks that RT is a good news source is beyond hope.

[dudalb]

I see that Putin has taken another American Hostage.....I hope that Biden does not cave this time.

[GraculusTheGreenBird]

Originally Posted by Michel H

On the other hand, your post could be one (more) attempt to quickly and easily dismiss some information you don't like, to try to emphasize the information that you like, from Western news outlets for example.

I have generally found RT to be an excellent source of information, comparable in quality to the BBC or to the Guardian, but with different emphases.

We know you think this.

Because you are a Russian agent.
Because you are a supporter of genocide.
Because you are on the side of evil.
Whenever there is a cause, you are on the wrong side. Always.

You disgust me and it seems every other member of this forum.
That this universal disgust doesn't cause you to reconsider your positions, only outlines the above points.

I cannot express the utter disdain and disgust I have for you, and the content of your posts.

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by Michel H

On the other hand, your post could be one (more) attempt to quickly and easily dismiss some information you don't like, to try to emphasize the information that you like, from Western news outlets for example.

I have generally found RT to be an excellent source of information, comparable in quality to the BBC or to the Guardian, but with different emphases.

Putin-Today is a propaganda outfit, not a "news source". Its only function is to provide regime approved talking points for its western shills, which it does
quite well. It has no credibility outside of that.