[Continuation] Transwomen are not women - part XI - Page 39

d4m10n · Today, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

It's going to be a commentary on trans rights activism in general. As it should be.

It's not clear why or how that follows. Just because some people do crimes doesn't mean other people with similar characteristics shouldn't be granted civil rights.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

theprestige · Today, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

It's not clear why or how that follows. Just because some people do crimes doesn't mean other people with similar characteristics shouldn't be granted civil rights.

It raises pertinent questions about what the activists are fighting for, and what they're willing to tolerate to get it.

It also raises pertinent questions about whether the things the activists are fighting for are actually civil rights (rather than begging those questions).

d4m10n · Today, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

It raises pertinent questions about what the activists are fighting for, and what they're willing to tolerate to get it.

No, it doesn't.

In no other context would you besmirch civil rights activists just because some of the people they are fighting for have committed crimes unrelated to the rights at issue.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

theprestige · Today, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

No, it doesn't.

In no other context would you besmirch civil rights activists just because some of the people they are fighting for have committed crimes unrelated to the rights at issue.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

If there's one thing I've learned from this discussion over the years, it's that the nature of the crimes and other bad behavior is very much related to the "rights" at issue.

Scare quotes because I think calling them rights is begging the question. I'm not even remotely convinced that transcending sex segregation is a right.

And I think every time a transsexual man ("transwoman") exploits his "right" to transcend sex segregation, in order to rape, assault, abuse, or erase women, it's pertinent to ask, is this what trans activists want? Is this the price they're willing for the rest of us to pay, to get the results they want?

---

There's an activist group in my town that posts bail for accused felons, no questions asked. Because the American bail system is regressive and systemically racist.

So of course the obvious happens. They post bail for a repeating violent offender. A guy who has been arrested, been released, and committed fresh violent crimes. Not someone who should be back out on the street. No matter how much you believe in civil rights.

So anyway, they bail this guy out, no questions asked, and of course he promptly puts an innocent woman in the hospital.

This raises pertinent questions about the activists, their activism, and what collateral damage they're willing to inflict on their society in the name of social justice.

---

A recurring theme from the TRAs in this thread has been an absolute refusal to acknowledge the real harm their transsexual rights policies do. And of course therefore an absolute refusal to offer any solution to this intrinsic problem with their advocacy.

I think that every time a transwoman commits rape in a women's prison, breaks a women's athletic record, etc., it's pertinent to ask TRAs why they're willing to accept these inevitable and harmful consequences of their activism.

Maybe you don't see it that way, but I do. I've made my case forgot looking at it that way, as best I can. I hope others will give it some thought, even if you've already made up your mind.

d4m10n · Today, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I think that every time a transwoman commits rape in a women's prison, breaks a women's athletic record, etc., it's pertinent to ask TRAs why they're willing to accept these inevitable and harmful consequences of their activism.

This is the easily defensible motte (activists actually put someone in a position to do harm) but the bailey was every time a transgender individual does harm it reflects upon the activists, regardless of context.

theprestige · Today, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by d4m10n

This is the easily defensible motte (activists actually put someone in a position to do harm) but the bailey was every time a transgender individual does harm it reflects upon the activists, regardless of context.

You are imagining an architectural design not actually manifest in my argument.

I'm not playing motte and bailey here. I'm convinced of the rightness of my claim, in all the various phrasings I've used. If you think my claim goes too far, according to some paraphrase of your own devising, that's your game, not mine.

Samson · Today, 05:04 PM

There is a new UK report which must help turn the tide which is wrecking children's lives.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/public...-at-the-wheel/

d4m10n · Today, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I'm not playing motte and bailey here.

I respectfully disagree. At #1520 you presented a very broad claim but then you retreated to a far more defensible position.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

lionking · Today, 07:21 PM

The most worrying thing about this report (as well as the lying) is the motivating factor for transitioning.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...419c836ec33e80

Quote:

Adea Danielle, 22, always felt like there was something “missing” when she was growing up and at aged 16, after stumbling across a YouTube video, realised she was transgender.

I mean, everything on YouTube is absolute truth.

I trust she took other advice, but it isn't mentioned.

I wonder how much of the explosion of those seeking transition is influenced by YouTube, Instagram, Reddit etc etc.

Samson · Today, 08:36 PM

A letter in the Au Spectator after Posie Parker

https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/04...-zealands-msm/

I am specifically interested in what Atheist and smartcooky have to say about this experienced NZ journalist.

Robin · Today, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

A letter in the Au Spectator after Posie Parker

https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/04...-zealands-msm/

I am specifically interested in what Atheist and smartcooky have to say about this experienced NZ journalist.

Maybe the first time I have agreed with an article in the Spectator.

Robin · Today, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

There is a new UK report which must help turn the tide which is wrecking children's lives.

https://policyexchange.org.uk/public...-at-the-wheel/

A report from a conservative think tank.

Now that going to be even handed.

Samson · Today, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Robin

Maybe the first time I have agreed with an article in the Spectator.

Ok, you realise she is a malicious transphobe in current NZ political law.

Today, 03:35 PM	#1521
d4m10n Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 10,539	Originally Posted by theprestige It's going to be a commentary on trans rights activism in general. As it should be. It's not clear why or how that follows. Just because some people do crimes doesn't mean other people with similar characteristics shouldn't be granted civil rights. Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
	__________________ Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

Today, 03:37 PM	#1522
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,611	Originally Posted by d4m10n It's not clear why or how that follows. Just because some people do crimes doesn't mean other people with similar characteristics shouldn't be granted civil rights. It raises pertinent questions about what the activists are fighting for, and what they're willing to tolerate to get it. It also raises pertinent questions about whether the things the activists are fighting for are actually civil rights (rather than begging those questions).
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

Today, 03:40 PM	#1523
d4m10n Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 10,539	Originally Posted by theprestige It raises pertinent questions about what the activists are fighting for, and what they're willing to tolerate to get it. No, it doesn't. In no other context would you besmirch civil rights activists just because some of the people they are fighting for have committed crimes unrelated to the rights at issue. Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
	__________________ Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

Today, 04:16 PM	#1524
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,611	Originally Posted by d4m10n No, it doesn't. In no other context would you besmirch civil rights activists just because some of the people they are fighting for have committed crimes unrelated to the rights at issue. Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk If there's one thing I've learned from this discussion over the years, it's that the nature of the crimes and other bad behavior is very much related to the "rights" at issue. Scare quotes because I think calling them rights is begging the question. I'm not even remotely convinced that transcending sex segregation is a right. And I think every time a transsexual man ("transwoman") exploits his "right" to transcend sex segregation, in order to rape, assault, abuse, or erase women, it's pertinent to ask, is this what trans activists want? Is this the price they're willing for the rest of us to pay, to get the results they want? --- There's an activist group in my town that posts bail for accused felons, no questions asked. Because the American bail system is regressive and systemically racist. So of course the obvious happens. They post bail for a repeating violent offender. A guy who has been arrested, been released, and committed fresh violent crimes. Not someone who should be back out on the street. No matter how much you believe in civil rights. So anyway, they bail this guy out, no questions asked, and of course he promptly puts an innocent woman in the hospital. This raises pertinent questions about the activists, their activism, and what collateral damage they're willing to inflict on their society in the name of social justice. --- A recurring theme from the TRAs in this thread has been an absolute refusal to acknowledge the real harm their transsexual rights policies do. And of course therefore an absolute refusal to offer any solution to this intrinsic problem with their advocacy. I think that every time a transwoman commits rape in a women's prison, breaks a women's athletic record, etc., it's pertinent to ask TRAs why they're willing to accept these inevitable and harmful consequences of their activism. Maybe you don't see it that way, but I do. I've made my case forgot looking at it that way, as best I can. I hope others will give it some thought, even if you've already made up your mind.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

Today, 04:42 PM	#1525
d4m10n Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 10,539	Originally Posted by theprestige I think that every time a transwoman commits rape in a women's prison, breaks a women's athletic record, etc., it's pertinent to ask TRAs why they're willing to accept these inevitable and harmful consequences of their activism. This is the easily defensible motte (activists actually put someone in a position to do harm) but the bailey was every time a transgender individual does harm it reflects upon the activists, regardless of context.
	__________________ Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

Today, 04:59 PM	#1526
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Antimemetics Division Posts: 63,611	Originally Posted by d4m10n This is the easily defensible motte (activists actually put someone in a position to do harm) but the bailey was every time a transgender individual does harm it reflects upon the activists, regardless of context. You are imagining an architectural design not actually manifest in my argument. I'm not playing motte and bailey here. I'm convinced of the rightness of my claim, in all the various phrasings I've used. If you think my claim goes too far, according to some paraphrase of your own devising, that's your game, not mine.
	__________________ There is no Antimemetics Division.

Today, 05:04 PM	#1527
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,423	There is a new UK report which must help turn the tide which is wrecking children's lives. https://policyexchange.org.uk/public...-at-the-wheel/

Today, 05:22 PM	#1528
d4m10n Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Mounts Farm Posts: 10,539	Originally Posted by theprestige I'm not playing motte and bailey here. I respectfully disagree. At #1520 you presented a very broad claim but then you retreated to a far more defensible position. Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
	__________________ Just reread theprestige's signature; still cannot recall anything about it.

Today, 07:21 PM	#1529
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 52,928	The most worrying thing about this report (as well as the lying) is the motivating factor for transitioning. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...419c836ec33e80 Quote: Adea Danielle, 22, always felt like there was something “missing” when she was growing up and at aged 16, after stumbling across a YouTube video, realised she was transgender. I mean, everything on YouTube is absolute truth. I trust she took other advice, but it isn't mentioned. I wonder how much of the explosion of those seeking transition is influenced by YouTube, Instagram, Reddit etc etc.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

Today, 08:36 PM	#1530
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,423	A letter in the Au Spectator after Posie Parker https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/04...-zealands-msm/ I am specifically interested in what Atheist and smartcooky have to say about this experienced NZ journalist.

Today, 08:40 PM	#1531
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 14,863	Originally Posted by Samson A letter in the Au Spectator after Posie Parker https://www.spectator.com.au/2023/04...-zealands-msm/ I am specifically interested in what Atheist and smartcooky have to say about this experienced NZ journalist. Maybe the first time I have agreed with an article in the Spectator.
	__________________ We all hate poverty, war, and injustice Unlike the rest of you squares. Tom Lehrer - Folk Song Army

Today, 08:46 PM	#1532
Robin Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 14,863	Originally Posted by Samson There is a new UK report which must help turn the tide which is wrecking children's lives. https://policyexchange.org.uk/public...-at-the-wheel/ A report from a conservative think tank. Now that going to be even handed.
	__________________ We all hate poverty, war, and injustice Unlike the rest of you squares. Tom Lehrer - Folk Song Army

Today, 09:10 PM	#1533
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,423	Originally Posted by Robin Maybe the first time I have agreed with an article in the Spectator. Ok, you realise she is a malicious transphobe in current NZ political law.