Who is the Greatest Living Human?

[Orphia Nay]

I'd go for Bill Gates.

Where would Barack Obama be on your list, TA?

[Chanakya]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

I give away my nowhere-near-billions, so I would too.

On the other hand, a hell of a lot of them don't. I'd list them but they piss me off too much.



I thought the first Dolly Parton suggestion was just TM being his normal silly self, but I think some of you actually think she could be the greatest living human. And she did not "give the world the covid vaccine".

If Dolly is the greatest living human, then the species is in more trouble than I believe it is. The fact that people think she genuinely could be is sad enough on its own.



No MLK, no Churchill, no Einstein, no Sagan, not even a Muhammad Ali.

That's kind of why I started the thread - there are a lot of contenders for greatest person of the 20th century, but I come up with very little for the 21st.



Her husband, I'd accept as a nominee. Any bloke who still hangs onto a bag of silicon and bleach who ****** as many other blokes as she has is a saint.

Or really stupid.

Even Dolly's musical status is built on the back of rednecks and truck drivers - she's had exactly two top 10 hits outside country charts, and only one of those two is more than drivel: Here You Come Again.

Willie Nelson has probably done more charitable work and at least you could sit and have a spliff with him.

How do you mean, Churchill?

Churchill was great in some ways, sure. And we owe our present world to him in no small measure, sure. But he was a racist scumbag, and he was responsible for having caused one of the worst famines ever.

Not to derail your thread, but Churchill, for ****'s sake? I mean, we might as well go with Stalin then. He too was not without greatness, in some respects, and he too played a huge role ridding us of Hitler, and the Russians of the horrors of feudalism. But no one would, all things considered, speak of Stalin and "greatest" in the same breath, unless it were in a list of 'greatest scumbags'. Likewise Churchill.

Off-topic rant over, carry on.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

I'd go for Bill Gates.

Where would Barack Obama be on your list, TA?

I'd love to put him high on the list, because I think he's a genuinely good bloke who tried fairly hard to achieve greatness, but he ultimately failed to do so.

As I put it, "Yes we can!" became "No you didn't".

I accept the hostile house and senate made his job pretty difficult, but I still think he under-performed.

Originally Posted by Chanakya

How do you mean, Churchill?

I agree with what you say about him, and in spades because Kiwis and ANZACs were on the sharp end of a couple of his massacres.

That said, he was the one person who was able to stand up to Hitler and enabled Britain and its allies to stay in the war long enough for the tide to turn.

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by Brainster

If I have to explain it...

Nike had a series of silly commercials in the 1990s where the tagline was "Al Del Greco, the greatest football player of all time." Of course they were referring to real football, not that silly game where the players spend most of the time falling down spectacularly and appealing to the ref.

Del Greco was a kicker for the Tennessee Titans and a pretty good football player (the Titan's all-time leading scorer), but not even a Hall-of-Famer and certainly nowhere near the greatest.

I think you are under a misapprehension. That game you play in America that’s a bit like rugby but where everybody is so frightened of getting hurt that they wear lots of padding is not something that around 95% of people in the world care about.

For the purpose of this thread, nobody who played American football could possibly be considered the greatest living person since, to a first approximation, nobody knows or cares about them.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife

Sadly, I think the days of "great" people are long gone. We're now just wallowing in our own filth and waiting for that (long over-due) giant comet to put us out of our misery.

....and nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

The thread has raised a number of interesting points IMO.

In order to be great, does a person have to be devoid of serious flaws ?

Can someone excel in a single area and still be considered great or do they have to have achievements in multiple fields ?

Does someone have to have global (or at least regional) reach to be considered great or could achievements in, and on behalf of, a single country or even city allow someone to be classified as great ?

Does a person have to have an extensive body of work over an extended period to be considered great or could a single stupendous act or series of acts over a limited period of time allow them to be considered great ?

[BrettM]

If your definition of greatness is "leading my country through an existential crisis" then Zelinskii is your man. He is doing today what Churchill did many years ago.

The covid pandemic was an opportunity for world leaders to display their greatness. None succeeded.

[wobs]

Originally Posted by Upchurch

I'll sign up for Team Dolly. She helped give us both Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Moderna the COVID Vaccine.

She was far from the only one to donate to vaccine development. There is a Telegraph article on (paywalled), but a BBC article lists a few:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-52325269

Dolly's contribution is small in comparison, although how much it is compared with their with overall wealth, I don't know.

Her work on child literacy is far more impressive IMHO.

Gates seems to have done far more in terms of trying to make the world a better place, from vaccines, sanitation in poor countries, and decarbonising the developed economy, to name a few things.

Gates and Buffet also campaigned for other ultra wealthy to donate at least 50% of their wealth:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Pledge

But do we measure greatness by the amount or proportion they give to worthy causes, or by actions to do good? Or some other measure, or some combination.

[wobs]

Originally Posted by BrettM

The covid pandemic was an opportunity for world leaders to display their greatness. None succeeded.

New Zealand is that way -->

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by wobs

But do we measure greatness by the amount or proportion they give to worthy causes, or by actions to do good? Or some other measure, or some combination.

Were you under the impression that her contributions to one of the vaccines was her sole accomplishment? Or even the sole accomplishment that was listed by me or others?

Again, we don’t all have to agree, but there is no reason to misrepresent with straw men.

[wobs]

Originally Posted by Upchurch

Were you under the impression that her contributions to one of the vaccines was her sole accomplishment? Or even the sole accomplishment that was listed by me or others?

Again, we don’t all have to agree, but there is no reason to misrepresent with straw men.

The fact that I mentioned her work on child literacy suggests your post is a strawman. I brought the vaccine donation up because you and others did.

[wea]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

...And hurry with your suggestions, because I think the only potential contender is on his last legs - Jimmy Carter.

programming languages and their parsers have been and are highly influential on the world today: I nominate Noam Chomsky

[Upchurch]

Originally Posted by wobs

The fact that I mentioned her work on child literacy suggests your post is a strawman. I brought the vaccine donation up because you and others did.

You presented her vaccine contribution as people’s sole justification for her greatness and argued that we should consider what good they accomplish themselves, as I quoted in my previous post. That isn’t what I or others in the thread have been doing.

[Dave Rogers]

So far as I can tell, objectively speaking, the greatest living human is Khalid bin Mohsen Shaari, whose maximum weight was 610kg in 2013. However, he has since lost 542kg and is therefore currently even less great than I am.

Dave

[Lothian]

I think a forum full of atheists would agree that life serves no devine purpose. We are here for a short time and try to get as much out of life as we can and in doing that we want to enjoy ourselves, we want to be entertained. It follows that the greatest human is therefore the greatest entertainer. That leads us to Brendan O'Carroll.

[sarge]

I looked Attenborough up. He seems a decent man, and he’s certainly been successful producing TV shows. It ‘Greatest living human’? I honestly saw nothing to recommend him over either Gates or Parton. I’d place Jimmy Carter ahead of all 3.

To be honest, that these four names are all that have been mentioned (I discount Churchill as a joke) means we either have no great living humans or they work in anonymity.

[wobs]

Originally Posted by Upchurch

You presented her vaccine contribution as people’s sole justification for her greatness That isn’t what I or others in the thread have been doing.

No, I quoted your post directly. It is what you were claiming (along with the Buffy thing).

I then posted:

Quote:

Dolly's contribution is small in comparison, although how much it is compared with their with overall wealth, I don't know.

Her work on child literacy is far more impressive IMHO.

It is irrelevant whether someone mentioned her work on literacy previously, as I did not make out others had mentioned that or not. Many were talking of her vaccine contributions.

Quote:

and argued that we should consider what good they accomplish themselves, as I quoted in my previous post.

This is a complete misinterpretation of what I said. What I actually said was:

Quote:

But do we measure greatness by the amount or proportion they give to worthy causes, or by actions to do good? Or some other measure, or some combination.

Which is not what you claim. Especially as I was talking about Gates and Buffett in the previous paragraph. We are talking about who is the greatest living person, so that is what I am talking about.

I have simply pointed out that:
Her vaccine contributions are modest compared to other ultra wealthy (and she has said so herself).
Her child literacy work is more impressive than her vaccine donation(s).
Others may have done more good overall.

I am puzzled why you take this stance. I've got nothing against Parton, its just that I was wondering how one would measure greatness.

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by wobs

I am puzzled why you take this stance. I've got nothing against Parton, its just that I was wondering how one would measure greatness.

Cups.

[wobs]

Originally Posted by Lothian

Cups.

QCTM*




Quietly Chuckle To Myself**

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Lothian

Cups.

Or ability to win Summarise Proust competitions, which amounts to the same thing.

Dave

[TragicMonkey]

This is interesting not because what this says about the proposed candidates, but because what your choice and reasoning says about you. I picked Dolly Parton not just for her charitable work (which is immense) but because she is repeatedly and consistently reported by all who encounter her as being incredibly kind. She's apparently nice. Kindness, humility, generousity, humor, and charm: those are all necessary ingredients in my evaluation of "greatness". Others differ, obviously. Some seem to think it requires political power and control over other people, or involvement in historic events, or possessing one of those magic rings that were briefly popular in Middle Earth.

[Yalius]

Donald Knuth. Probably the single most influential person alive today.

[sarge]

Originally Posted by Yalius

Donald Knuth. Probably the single most influential person alive today.

I’ve never heard of him. Impressive.

[Yalius]

Originally Posted by sarge

I’ve never heard of him. Impressive.

If you've used a computer, or heck, used any piece of technology, directly or indirectly, anytime after the year 1970, you've benefited from Dr. Knuth's work.

[Puppycow]

How about Alexei Navalny?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny

Someone mentioned Nelson Mandela earlier. Who is most like Mandela now?

[pgwenthold]

Other than my wife?

I abstain

[pipelineaudio]

Matt Hoffman

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by The Don

In order to be great, does a person have to be devoid of serious flaws ?

Depends on the level of flaw.

If you cure cancer and then get busted for child porn, I'd leave you off the list.

Originally Posted by The Don

Can someone excel in a single area and still be considered great or do they have to have achievements in multiple fields ?

Does someone have to have global (or at least regional) reach to be considered great or could achievements in, and on behalf of, a single country or even city allow someone to be classified as great ?

Does a person have to have an extensive body of work over an extended period to be considered great or could a single stupendous act or series of acts over a limited period of time allow them to be considered great ?

All of those are equally dependent on the impact of what did was. I think any could qualify, as long as the impact is major. Saving Tokyo from Godzilla would probably qualify, even if you never stepped foot outside Japan.

I'll give an example.

If you asked me who the greatest person this century was, I'd unhesitatingly say Aitzaz Hassan. Unfortunately, he's one of the many who gave their lives to achieve greatness.

Originally Posted by wea

programming languages and their parsers have been and are highly influential on the world today: I nominate Noam Chomsky

Yeah, nah.

https://newcriterion.com/issues/2004...raceful-career

Originally Posted by sarge

I looked Attenborough up. He seems a decent man, and he’s certainly been successful producing TV shows. It ‘Greatest living human’?

What you'd have missed is his enormous impact on three generations of Commonwealth scientists, his body of written work, and his contribution to climate action.

Originally Posted by sarge

I’d place Jimmy Carter ahead of all 3.

I definitely see him as in the top two. Underrated in his own country because politics, but a genuinely great man who achieved admirable goals quietly.

Originally Posted by Puppycow

How about Alexei Navalny?

Similar to Chomsky: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...tionalist-past

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Someone mentioned Nelson Mandela earlier. Who is most like Mandela now?

In 2021, Forbes had Jacinda at #1, so obviously nobody.

[figarot]

We cannot know. They may not even read the news, much less be mentioned therein. They could be Amish or Inuit, we don't know, all we know is that they are the greatest. Perhaps, we should not know their name...

[figarot]

For those we do have a name for, Ranulph Fiennes should be on the shortlist.

[jeremyp]

I think we need somebody who has made a global impact on human wellbeing. Somebody like Jonas Salk, Richard Doll or Norman Borlaug but still alive.

[The Common Potato]

Bad language throughout (or a translator needed!)

Ronnie Pickering, obvs: https://youtu.be/r0dcv6GKNNw

[The Common Potato]

Originally Posted by lionking

I don’t think The Atheist would have started this thread without a New Zealander in mind. I’ll help him out.

Jacinda Ardern.

You’re welcome.

I have had a unreasonable hatred of Grant Batty for a few decades. This doesn't help anyone out.

[Shadowdweller]

Probably this guy.

https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com...m25-476257.jpg

[porch]

The worship of individual persons is probably part of human nature, but that doesn't mean you have to suck it and like it. Basically, I just wanted to drop in and say that I find this entire exercise morally repugnant and anti-skeptical.

My vote goes for Jesus H. Christ, obviously. Idolaters.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by figarot

For those we do have a name for, Ranulph Fiennes should be on the shortlist.

He's definitely a short-lister, but I don't think he's done sufficient altruistic work to get into the top few.

Originally Posted by The Common Potato

I have had a unreasonable hatred of Grant Batty for a few decades. This doesn't help anyone out.

What's unreasonable about hating Grant Batty?

[deaman]

No one.

[Orphia Nay]

Originally Posted by deaman

No one.

The internet nowadays gives everyone no place to hide.

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

The internet nowadays gives everyone no place to hide.

The dark web on the other hand........

[jeremyp]

Originally Posted by porch

The worship of individual persons is probably part of human nature, but that doesn't mean you have to suck it and like it. Basically, I just wanted to drop in and say that I find this entire exercise morally repugnant and anti-skeptical.

My vote goes for Jesus H. Christ, obviously. Idolaters.

I don't think anybody is proposing that, having found the greatest living person, we worship them.

Jesus fails to meet the qualifying criteria on account of being dead.

[Lothian]

Originally Posted by jeremyp

.
Jesus fails to meet the qualifying criteria on account of being dead.

BLASPHEMER. LIGHT UP THE FIRE.