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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:48 PM   #161
sadhatter
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Let me tell you a little bit about fiction (and yes, semi-autobiographical accounts are classed as fiction). This is somewhat basic, the kind of stuff a junior school kid might learn in writing class, but apparently it needs spelling out to you. If the author has a message to convey, he or she will do it through the medium of his characters' interactions. A character's opinion, unless challenged in the narrative, forms a part of the message the author wishes to get across.

So if the story has a character who states, "Homosexuals are unnatural and dirty," and his opinion is not countered, or proved incorrect by events, or called into question by other failings of his broader personality traits, then it can be understood that the author wants to communicate a homophobic message. The same holds true for any statement, positive or negative. This concept is especially valid when writing for children, who have a much weaker societal and cultural grounding from which to interpret what they read and therefore require less of a push to be influenced.

HTH.
I could name you a dozen edgy horror and action films where a repugnant protagonist gleefully kills his way consequence free and is celebrated for it. Doesn't mean the writer is promoting murder.

Actually to quote from one such example, "media is entertainment not a guidebook for damning yourself".
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:34 PM   #162
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Someone thinks their son is going to turn into a wussie because the school isn't providing macho books, that's what it's really about, right? Not saying I disagree in principle.

I agree schools are screwy - I would never ever send my child to a public school or most any school for that matter. Holy crap nowadays? Hell no. I'm with you isissxn - no kids.

By high school I was completely disinterested in school. I'd bring my own books to every class - English, electronics, welding - and I'd read. Or I would cut school completely and party. I hated high school.

I had a fantastic creative writing teacher in junior high - Miss Greenwald, you were awesome. Mr Junker, Music Theory, college - wow, best teacher ever. Mr Leveroni, junior high - F you you piece of crap.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:19 AM   #163
cullennz
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Someone thinks their son is going to turn into a wussie because the school isn't providing macho books, that's what it's really about, right? Not saying I disagree in principle.

Nope

They are saying they wont bother reading it
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:20 AM   #164
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The points made in the OP were:

1) "Boys don't want to read books about flowers", i.e. the sunflower book, which isn't really about flowers, but about children growing stuff, i.e. sunflowers.

2) "our school systems have turned into a quasi female organisations," apparently because "2% of teachers are male in NZ for e.g."

3) Boys "want books about hunting",

4) but "there aren't enough stories for young boys"

5) "female teachers and librarians are putting boys off reading by recommending the wrong books."

6) Boys "want books about hunting, fishing, boys and heroes stories. They want true sports stories." (...) "What about a boy on the Titanic, or a boy rescuing a family after a family after an earthquake, a boy riding his dad's motorbike through a storm to get help, a boy hero in a war setting?"

3 to 6 are references to or direct quotations from Joy Cowley, who doesn't seem to know what she's talking about since she also doesn't seem to have read the books she refers to:

"She said she knows of boys being recommended books about a boy helping his grandmother making a quilt, and another about a boy growing sunflowers.

The boy in The Quilt doesn't help his grandmother make a quilt! The boy helps his grandmother with chores at the farm, and his grandmother and other women in the farming community of Norwegian immigrants make a quilt! The boy doesn't help them with that! So if anybody is afraid that this is a book about a boy doing 'girly' stuff like quilting (The Horror!), I'm sorry, but they won't find examples of that or of the boy doing any other 'sissy' stuff in the book!

When searching for this book, I also found other books by the same author, Gary Paulsen, who, by the way, doesn't appear to be particularly effeminate. (But I could be wrong, of course, since he seems to dress a little like Michael Palin (no relation to Sarah, afaik) in The Lumberjack Song (YouTube).)
One of those books was The Hatchet, the first in a series of books, Brian's Saga.
Wikipedia's summary of the plot: A boy is the sole survivor in a plane crash in the woods in Northern Canada where he has to learn to survive on his own until he is finally rescued.
So there's hunting and fishing and there's even a tornado in the story, so isn't this the kind of story for boys that Joy Cowley describes? (See points 3 and 6 above.) There aren't any earthquakes or motorcycles, I know, but apart from that?

However, when you look at reviews at Goodreads, guess who's reading this book!
From the first page of reviews: Rachel, Faith, Karen, Wendy, Daniel, Karen, Danielle, Celeste, Erin and Joseph.

So in conclusion: It seems as if girls read more than boys, but the reason doesn't seem to be that there aren't any of the books out there that Joy Cowley and cullennz are calling for. The books are already there, but the boys don't seem to spend a lot of time reading them.

Of course, other explanations are possible: Maybe the boys actually do read them, but they just don't write reviews. Or the explanation preferred by Cowley and cullennz: There's a cabal of emasculating, feminizing librarians, school teachers, publishers and parents out there, who recommend books like The Hatchet exclusively to girls and manipulate boys into reading books about boys who help their grandmothers make quilts - even though no such book seems to exist in the real world ...

Now, I don't know about schools in New Zealand - cullennz claims that only 2 % of teachers are men. In Denmark, I think that the distribution of male and female teachers is a little more even than that, and at my own high school I would say it's about 50-50.
But on the other hand, I can't really see the point of counting the number of male and female teachers (or librarians, or publishers, or ...). Cullennz and Cowley are demonstrably wrong when they come up with their far-fetched explanation for why boys apparently don't read as much as girls.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:25 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Someone thinks their son is going to turn into a wussie because the school isn't providing macho books, that's what it's really about, right?

Yes, more or less:
The idea seems to be that boys don't read because feminists have taken over the educational system, libraries and publishing houses, and now they conspire to give boys only books about flowers and quilting.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 3rd January 2018 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:25 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, more or less:
The idea seems to be that boys don't read because feminists have taken over the educational system, libraries and publishing houses, and now they conspire to give boys only books about flowers and quilting.
Nope. Not that either

The books are just not about things boys get excited about reading
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:47 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Nope. Not that either

The books are just not about things boys get excited about reading
Because you know every boy in the country and what sort of thing they want to read about....
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:54 AM   #168
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Never mind that, as shown above by dann, that Cowley didn't actually know anything about at least one of the books she was using as ammo.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:56 AM   #169
dann
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Nope. Not that either

The books are just not about things boys get excited about reading

You're only making it worse.
Several posters have already told you that if boys are interested in reading books, and librarians and teachers don't recommend books to their liking, they'll go look for books themselves. We did - even if we had to smuggle them out under the noses of prissy librarians.
You have to face the fact that some boys just don't get excited about reading - any books! - instead of clinging to your ideal of boys actually interested in reading if only it weren't for all the feminists who are ruining it for them!
If these boys are too scared or ignorant to find books on their own - Come on, they have the internet now! We didn't! - maybe they are incompetent 'sissies' even before they meet their first teacher or librarian.* The girls seem to be able to find books that they like, even when they are books about boys surviving on their own in the wilderness.

* I don't think that's actually the case. It's all in your head. And in Joy Cowley's.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 3rd January 2018 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:33 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
You're only making it worse.
Several posters have already told you that if boys are interested in reading books, and librarians and teachers don't recommend books to their liking, they'll go look for books themselves. We did - even if we had to smuggle them out under the noses of prissy librarians.
You have to face the fact that some boys just don't get excited about reading - any books! - instead of clinging to your ideal of boys actually interested in reading if only it weren't for all the feminists who are ruining it for them!
If these boys are too scared or ignorant to find books on their own - Come on, they have the internet now! We didn't! - maybe they are incompetent 'sissies' even before they meet their first teacher or librarian.* The girls seem to be able to find books that they like, even when they are books about boys surviving on their own in the wilderness.

* I don't think that's actually the case. It's all in your head. And in Joy Cowley's.
Not sure how you equate boring books as being sissy
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:43 AM   #171
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I don't know why you persist in calling them boring, since Cowley clearly didn't know anything about at least one of the books to make her judgement.

My kids vary from a devourer of fiction, down to one who will only very occasionally read non-fiction (and never fiction). And we have a house full of books.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:46 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Someone thinks their son is going to turn into a wussie because the school isn't providing macho books, that's what it's really about, right? Not saying I disagree in principle.

I agree schools are screwy - I would never ever send my child to a public school or most any school for that matter. Holy crap nowadays? Hell no. I'm with you isissxn - no kids.

By high school I was completely disinterested in school. I'd bring my own books to every class - English, electronics, welding - and I'd read. Or I would cut school completely and party. I hated high school.

I had a fantastic creative writing teacher in junior high - Miss Greenwald, you were awesome. Mr Junker, Music Theory, college - wow, best teacher ever. Mr Leveroni, junior high - F you you piece of crap.

You're just missing the So at the beginning
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:48 AM   #173
dann
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To all of you wanna-be machos out there!
This is the guy who wrote the 'quilting book':

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


If anybody is able to make boys who're interested in 'boys' stuff' read, he's the man!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:53 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not sure how you equate boring books as being sissy

Yes, you are. It's no coincidence that you quoted Joy Cowley:

Quote:
"They want books about hunting, fishing, boys and heroes stories. They want true sports stories."

It's also no coincidence that you choose to completely ignore the arguments presented in my long posts!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:45 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Hey, I'll make my own arguments, you stick to yours. You said it right there. "Kids' books of my day and age ... kept kids away from anything like reality."

That's what kids books should be doing! Imagination! Adventure! Fantasy! Fun! Not some agenda-driven social-issue-oriented PC claptrap designed to 'teach' the kids how to think in the real world. God almighty, how depressing.

(And for the record, kids don't want to read books about sex or child abuse).
You seem to have now admitted your claim of "sanitised" books today is arse-about-tit, what you want kids to read is the santitised books of your youth!

I know from about 10 years ago that the reading lists of books my nephew and niece had were way better and more varied than any I was ever encouraged to read when I was at school. They had war stories, coming of age adventure stories, even amazingly science fiction and fantasy titles on them - and not just the po-faced acceptable ones when I was a kid. A huge and varied range - not just the worthy books - even those are still there as well.

Teachers today seem to think that they can grab kids' attention by making reading not be seen as the dullness it was in my childhood, they really seem to be trying to engage as many kids as possible with reading. Again back in my day reading was treated the same way as maths or geography - something you had to do but was boring.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:59 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
...snip...

Having said that, the books I really loved as a kid were the 'Alfred Hitchcock and the Three Investigators' series. Blooming marvellous they were!
The HQ in the abandoned caravan! Good old Baby Fatso (not that I'd call him that to his face) with his deductions. Puts old Sherlock to shame.

For me childhood reading was totally not as per my educators' plans

up to 4 - Janet & John style books
4 - 8 - Famous Five (how much more sanitised can you get?), Three Investigators, Hardy boys, Biggles, Agatha Christie and anything else my mother was reading (my mother was an avid reader of detective novels)
8 onwards - adult books - predominantly science fiction and what passed for fantasy back then

I couldn't stand the books we were meant to read as kids - I was always years ahead in my reading - Paddington books at 8? Get out of here. And then in secondary school all the "worthy" crap - Shakespeare, Dickens and so on - boring and tedious.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:09 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
When I was a kid it was clearly understood that you have to read crappy boring stuff for school, then you pick your own books to read for fun. No child has ever been limited to only reading what the school compels them to.
This.

But as I mentioned above I was amazed how recommended reading lists had progressed when I saw what was on lists from my nephew and niece's schools. It really does seem to be some new sneaky and underhand tactic that these modern liberal elitist teachers have cottoned on to - make reading interesting for kids and they might like reading!

Back in my day if a book had the slightest chance of being interesting it went on the burning pile.

Dull and worthy! You think reading is meant to be fun!!!! How dare you.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:10 AM   #178
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In my own anthology of science fiction I included short stories that I hate, but I knew that my students loved them: Tom Godwin's The Cold Equations (well-written but awful ideology!) and Anne McCaffery's The Smallest Dragonboy (Disneyesque fantasy/soft-core science fiction) - mainly because they are representative genre stories and also offer the opportunity to discuss the qualities of literature.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:18 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And then in secondary school all the "worthy" crap - Shakespeare, Dickens and so on - boring and tedious.

I didn't appreciate Shakespeare till several years post-grad! I'm surprised that about 50 % of my students do, but Branagh's Much Ado about Nothing and Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet really helped make young people interested (or at least able to tolerate) Shakespeare.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:23 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I didn't appreciate Shakespeare till several years post-grad! I'm surprised that about 50 % of my students do, but Branagh's Much Ado about Nothing and Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet really helped make young people interested (or at least able to tolerate) Shakespeare.
My issue with Shakespeare is twofold - first of all - that crap "poetry" stuff, I'm sure I don't need to explain to intelligent readers that all poetry is crap. The second is that often in schools the plays are treated as if they are novels and merely read - but they are scripts (albeit not great ones) and as should be confined to the drama department not the English lit department.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:43 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The HQ in the abandoned caravan! Good old Baby Fatso (not that I'd call him that to his face) with his deductions. Puts old Sherlock to shame.

For me childhood reading was totally not as per my educators' plans

up to 4 - Janet & John style books
4 - 8 - Famous Five (how much more sanitised can you get?), Three Investigators, Hardy boys, Biggles, Agatha Christie and anything else my mother was reading (my mother was an avid reader of detective novels)
8 onwards - adult books - predominantly science fiction and what passed for fantasy back then

I couldn't stand the books we were meant to read as kids - I was always years ahead in my reading - Paddington books at 8? Get out of here. And then in secondary school all the "worthy" crap - Shakespeare, Dickens and so on - boring and tedious.
At the risk of a derail, here is one of the reasons I liked the Three Investigators (and very apt for this site), from the wikipedia entry:

'The series had one major theme: however strange, mystical, or even supernatural a particular phenomenon may seem at first, it is capable of being traced to human agency with the determined application of reason and logic'. Also multiple references to Occam's Razor.

Apparently they did break this rule in four books in the series but I'm happy to say they were four books I hadn't read!
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:18 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
My issue with Shakespeare is twofold - first of all - that crap "poetry" stuff, I'm sure I don't need to explain to intelligent readers that all poetry is crap. The second is that often in schools the plays are treated as if they are novels and merely read - but they are scripts (albeit not great ones) and as should be confined to the drama department not the English lit department.

I never really appreciated poetry, but I'm reading Don Juan right now and actually enjoying it! Mark Steel's lecture on Byron made me try again. Like most of Shakespeare, Byron’s Don Juan is also in iambic pentameter (the sonnet form), but after a few stanzas I tend to forget about rhyme and meter and simply enjoy the contents and the rhythm of the language. The same thing happens with Shakespeare. And in theatrical performances of his plays, actors nowadays manage to make it sound 'realistic', i.e. like prose rather than poetry.
I enjoy Branagh's Much Ado every time I watch it. Reading the plays is a prerequisite for watching most of them - at least it is for Danes. I met a couple of English teachers in New York some years ago who said that they also weren't able to watch and enjoy Shakespeare without having read the plays beforehand.
Nowadays I think it's worthwhile, but I didn't 30 years ago, not even when I was studying English at college.
I find that it's easier to teach Shakespeare when you've learned to appreciate him yourself. And it also helps if you're able to empathize with the students who don't!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 3rd January 2018, 08:34 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
In 3rd grade I started reading Poe and unsanitized Greek mythology voraciously. They were not assigned for class.

I think it's funny that the OP argues boys are being left behind because the subjects of books are not on the list of 'acceptable guy interests' while seemingly ignoring that reading books for fun is in and of itself also absent from that list. The attitude that reading for fun is 'inherently girly' goes right along with 'adventure is inherently for boys'.
And that reminded me that I was given (without the giver checking it out first) the unexpurgated version of Grimm's Fairy Tales which included such as the mother-daughter team who got thrown naked into a nail studded cask (nails pointing in) for the bad stuff they did to another female. The cask was sealed and pushed so that it rolled down a very tall hill and landed in the ocean. Among other fun tales for the kids.......around fifth grade birthday.....
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:04 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And then in secondary school all the "worthy" crap - Shakespeare, Dickens and so on - boring and tedious.
Towards the end of secondary school we had to read and write about Chaucers The Canterbury Tales, with a translation book to translate from middle english.
It was my worst experience I have ever had with a book.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:12 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
In my own anthology of science fiction I included short stories that I hate, but I knew that my students loved them: Tom Godwin's The Cold Equations (well-written but awful ideology!)
I don't know about the ideology, but it definitely had bad engineering...

(Back on topic)

It may be just me, but this thread is beginning to sound like the recent disputes over Sci-Fi's Hugo Awards...
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:48 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Towards the end of secondary school we had to read and write about Chaucers The Canterbury Tales, with a translation book to translate from middle english.
It was my worst experience I have ever had with a book.

I dropped out of English at college when they gave us the book Abriß der altenglischen Grammatik (At the time, I hated German. Now I teach the language.)
I only returned and got my master's when Old English stopped being compulsory.
I never read Chaucer. Or Beowulf, which, I think, was the only reason why they wanted us to learn Old English.

Originally Posted by carlvs View Post
(Off Topic) I don't know about the ideology, but it definitely had bad engineering...

... and, in hindsight, a really outdated version of computers!
Probably the best piece of 'engineering' is the sign (!) on the door of the Emergency Dispatch Ship telling people to stay out! I mean, even in 1954 they had had locks for a couple of millennia.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:51 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
... got thrown naked into a nail studded cask (nails pointing in) ...

Well, at least they didn't ruin their clothes!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:32 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Yes, you are. It's no coincidence that you quoted Joy Cowley:




It's also no coincidence that you choose to completely ignore the arguments presented in my long posts!
I didn't bother mentioning your post because you keep going on some weird rant about sexism and agendas
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:52 PM   #189
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When I was a kid, I could already read at an adult level, and frequently did. I didn't read what were considered appropriate books for girls much though. I didn't want to read about Cherry Ames, Student Nurse. Why read Nancy Drew (Or the Hardy Boys) when I could read Sherlock Holmes? When I did read kid's books it was things like The Blood Bay Colt, The Golden Hawks of Genghis Khan, Rosemary Sutcliff's Roman Britain books, etc. But I also picked up and read whatever was around the house, which meant I read books like The Tin Drum when I was 9 or 10.

So how about we just have a wide assortment of books and don't try to say girls have to read girly books and boys have to read adventure books and never the twain shall meet? Besides, I've never met a school librarian that forced kids to read only certain kinds of books. Most were just happy to get a kid reading a book, even if it was Peanuts cartoons.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:26 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I didn't bother mentioning your post because you keep going on some weird rant about sexism and agendas
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:29 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Forgive my ignorance but what does this mean
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:40 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Yeah, those books described here just sound terrible, for any gender.

Also, has school reading really changed that much? I remember reading tons of books about boys having adventures in school. Girls too. Hatchet, The Phantom Toll Booth, A Wrinkle in Time, lots of historical fiction geared toward young adults, Lord of the Flies, some tome that won a Newbery award about a boy whose friend drowns when they go play somewhere forbidden...
"
A Bridge to Terabithia? I loved that book. And I read it as an adult. The CBC made a very good teleplay from it, too.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:53 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Forgive my ignorance but what does this mean
at a guess its an animation that is a reaction to the threadstarter saying this..
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I didn't bother mentioning your post because you keep going on some weird rant about sexism and agendas
When the thread is a weird rant about sexism and agendas.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:06 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
at a guess its an animation that is a reaction to the threadstarter saying this..

When the thread is a weird rant about sexism and agendas.
The thread is about books recomnended not being topics boys are interested in reading

The jump to this being some sexist agenda is something thrown in by the odd poster for reasons unknown
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:40 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
When I was a kid, I could already read at an adult level, and frequently did. I didn't read what were considered appropriate books for girls much though. I didn't want to read about Cherry Ames, Student Nurse. Why read Nancy Drew (Or the Hardy Boys) when I could read Sherlock Holmes? When I did read kid's books it was things like The Blood Bay Colt, The Golden Hawks of Genghis Khan, Rosemary Sutcliff's Roman Britain books, etc. But I also picked up and read whatever was around the house, which meant I read books like The Tin Drum when I was 9 or 10.

So how about we just have a wide assortment of books and don't try to say girls have to read girly books and boys have to read adventure books and never the twain shall meet? Besides, I've never met a school librarian that forced kids to read only certain kinds of books. Most were just happy to get a kid reading a book, even if it was Peanuts cartoons.
In my school those of us who'd completed the set reading books were allowed to bring in our own, until nine year old me innocently brought in my current home reading, Lair by James Herbert. Then it was back to the assigned books...Again.

Still it could have been worse, Herbert always put a sex scene about a third of the way into the book....
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:00 PM   #196
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We weren't doing Shakespeare or other stuff that was tedious at about 13 or earlier

Maybe I just went to a dumb School
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:21 PM   #197
p0lka
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The thread is about books recomnended not being topics boys are interested in reading
The thread is called Boys don't want to read books about flowers, thats a bit sexist.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The jump to this being some sexist agenda is something thrown in by the odd poster for reasons unknown
In your first post also you said this..
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
As an aside our school systems have turned into a quasi female organisations which doesn't help

2% of teachers are male in NZ for e.g.
looks like you were talking about an agenda to me.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:34 PM   #198
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And in other news...

Eliminating feminist teacher bias erases boys' falling grades, study finds

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/el...es-study-finds

Last edited by Wirelight; 3rd January 2018 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:50 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by carrps View Post
A Bridge to Terabithia? I loved that book. And I read it as an adult. The CBC made a very good teleplay from it, too.
Maybe what needs to happen is that people who recommend books to kids do what children's book authors have been doing for years, stop trying to protect them. Reading the thread, the issue may not be librarians pushing girlie books to boys; it's them not pushing dark books to kids. I suspect this all has less to do with librarians steering toward safe instead of "for girls".
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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:10 PM   #200
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I think the problem, overall, is that kids in general don't want to read books that they are told to. For the most part, they are given a standard reading book for their grade level which all contain the same stupid stories. It was my biggest complaint in school and a reason I got bad grades even though I was reading and writing way above my grade level.

If a boy wants to read about flowers, then that should be available for them to read.
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