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Tags crypto-archaeology , Noah's Ark

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Old 27th April 2010, 12:55 AM   #1
Madouc
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Noah's Ark found?

You betcha! Well, according to a completely uncritical article in the SCMP anyway.

The SCMP is one of only two English language newspapers in Hong Kong, the other being the largely business-focused Standard. It is considered a dull but reputable paper. It features a fair bit of woo in the "Health and Lifetsyle" sections, as does pretty much every paper, but the amount of credulity regarding the "Naoh's Ark" find is really does set a new low.

I am unable to link to the article as their website is by subscription, but it's already making the rounds abroad: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1225858591328

The original SCMP article is longer, and mentions a few Turkish academics confirming the find.

Quote:
One of the project participants, Dutch researcher Gerrit Aalten, said: "There is a tremendous amount of solid evidence that the structure found on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey is the legendary ark of Noah." Fellow researcher, Professor Oktay Belli, an archaeologist at the University of Istanbul, ruled out the possibility of human settlement because it has never been found above 3,500 metres.

Dr Ahmet Ozbek, geologist at Kahramanmaras Sutcu Iman University in Turkey, said the low temperature and environmental condition of glacier deposits and volcanic material helped preservation at the site.

Basically, old wood = magical boat, magical zoo, magical cataclysic flood, magical genocide.

The closest they come to balancing out the views is quoting one of the team members as saying they couldn't be absolutely sure, because no one had ever seen the ark. I think one of the writers of the article is a fundie YEC I know.

I can PM the full article as a PDF scan if anyone wants to read it in full.
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Old 27th April 2010, 01:39 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Madouc View Post
You betcha! Well, according to a completely uncritical article in the SCMP anyway.

The SCMP is one of only two English language newspapers in Hong Kong, the other being the largely business-focused Standard. It is considered a dull but reputable paper. It features a fair bit of woo in the "Health and Lifetsyle" sections, as does pretty much every paper, but the amount of credulity regarding the "Naoh's Ark" find is really does set a new low.

I am unable to link to the article as their website is by subscription, but it's already making the rounds abroad: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1225858591328

The original SCMP article is longer, and mentions a few Turkish academics confirming the find.




Basically, old wood = magical boat, magical zoo, magical cataclysic flood, magical genocide.

The closest they come to balancing out the views is quoting one of the team members as saying they couldn't be absolutely sure, because no one had ever seen the ark. I think one of the writers of the article is a fundie YEC I know.

I can PM the full article as a PDF scan if anyone wants to read it in full.
Please send me the PDF. I can't locate a copy of yesterday's paper and I let my on line subscription lapse (can't stand reading online newspapers). I'm sure I know someone who knows someone at the SCMP and can raise some Hell.
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Old 27th April 2010, 02:20 AM   #3
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Got a link to a pic of a guy holding a piece of the ark.

(IMG:http://www.scmp.com/files/SCMP/News/...AH4__pix59.jpg)


Looks pretty spry for a piece of 4000 year old wood. And what's the mongo doing handling it? If that's a piece of the ark or a piece of wood that was next to a guy who knew a guy who had a giraffe on the ark.... It's worth like billions and billions!
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Old 27th April 2010, 02:37 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Got a link to a pic of a guy holding a piece of the ark.

(IMG:http://www.scmp.com/files/SCMP/News/...AH4__pix59.jpg)


Looks pretty spry for a piece of 4000 year old wood. And what's the mongo doing handling it? If that's a piece of the ark or a piece of wood that was next to a guy who knew a guy who had a giraffe on the ark.... It's worth like billions and billions!
OOoooH! They found a piece of WOOD! Now I'm convinced! Hallelujah!

Now we wait for hilarity: To further their claim, they need to have the find dated. However, in order to not invalidate Biblical chronology totally, fundies have to reject all current archaeological dating methods.

So how are they gonna argue for a dating of this find?

And if they refrain from dating it, how are they going to argue for .. anything?

Painted themselves into a corner, they have.

Hans
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Old 27th April 2010, 02:39 AM   #5
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Ahh, I now see that are actually quoting carbon dating, heheh. Since carbon dating effectively destroys Biblical chronology, that is an epic fail. I'm amazed at how silly people can be.

Hans
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Old 27th April 2010, 02:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Ahh, I now see that are actually quoting carbon dating, heheh. Since carbon dating effectively destroys Biblical chronology, that is an epic fail. I'm amazed at how silly people can be.

Hans
Quote:
.... by a carbon-dating method in Iran.
Whatever that means.

I'm trying to find out if that pic was taken in Hong Kong. The article states that the conditions (low temperature and environmental conditions of glacierdeposits and volcanit material) were responsible for preserving the material.

So, what do you do? You take it down to 12 feet below sea level in one of the most polluted and humid cities in the world, bar none, and you make sure to just expose it to the air with no protection, whatsoever.

But be sure to wear surgical gloves! That looks all sciencey and stuff.
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Old 27th April 2010, 02:56 AM   #7
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I just love the concept of 4000m high flood waters. It would had to have rained a darn sight longer than 40 days and 40 nights, lol
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Old 27th April 2010, 04:26 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
I just love the concept of 4000m high flood waters. It would had to have rained a darn sight longer than 40 days and 40 nights, lol
Well, that is another shot at own foot. According to most Bible apologists, the explanation for the lack of water (there is far from enough water on Earth to cover all land) is that hights were differently distributed at the time of the flood; the oceans were shallower, the mountains were lower.

But that kills their (already flimsy) argument that the find cannot be a settlement ruin because of the elevation.

Hans
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Old 27th April 2010, 05:32 AM   #9
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I've seen, with my own eyes, the remnants of highly developed and sophisticated societies living quite happily at 4000m (Lake Titicaca, anyone?). Not to mention existing, modern cities (La Paz is lovely this time of year).

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Old 27th April 2010, 08:49 AM   #10
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Noah's Ark Found! Again! On

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...turkey-arafat/


This is the dumbest news story I've seen in a while.

Quote:
Yeung Wing-Cheung, from the Noah's Ark Ministries International research team that made the discovery, said: "It's not 100 percent that it is Noah's Ark, but we think it is 99.9 percent that this is it."
Classic. Any bets on what the structure actually is?

DJ
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Old 27th April 2010, 08:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Representatives of Noah's Ark Ministries said the structure contained several compartments, some with wooden beams, that they believe were used to house animals.The group of evangelical archaeologists ruled out an established human settlement on the grounds none have ever been found above 11,000 feet in the vicinity, Yeung said.
And how many wooden supertankers have ever been found above 11,000 feet in the vicinity, Mr. Yeung?
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:07 AM   #12
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Found the full article online. At the 'research' group's website of course: http://www.thenoahark.com/noahsarkse..._20100426.html
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:08 AM   #13
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Re the OP question - NO.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:13 AM   #14
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So, they found a boat? Why is it so hard to find an enormous garden in the Middle East containing every species of plant and animal on Earth, now guarded by a giant angel with a sword made out of fire?
I mean, look for the easy proofs of Biblical inerrency first.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by bit_pattern View Post
I just love the concept of 4000m high flood waters. It would had to have rained a darn sight longer than 40 days and 40 nights, lol
Not if they "wait for the sewers to back up[/Cosby]
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:20 AM   #16
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My letter to the editor (the images mentioned are not here attached - you'll just have to use your imagination!)

Quote:
Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for running the extremely interesting article, "Have Hong Kong evangelists found the biblical Noah's Ark?" In the same vein of newsworthiness and scientific inquiry I am sending you a report of my own extraordinary archaeological find: pieces of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I have attached photographic evidence of my discovery. To the casual observer this may seem like an ordinary plate of cooked Waitrose brand spaghetti with a couple of capers, but my fellow Pastafarians are able to confirm that these are in fact strands of very special and unusual spaghetti, never seen before by Science and are in fact holy relics of His Noodly appendages. 'Scholars', whose credentials I cannot be bothered to establish, likewise confirm they are totally magical looking.

As you will note from the attached images, the capers are arranged in a position that exactly resemble eyes, looking out in judgement - COINCIDENCE? I think not. Also attached is a picture of me with the specimen looking very serious and wearing a vaguely archaeologist/explorer type outfit. This is further evidence that this is the genuine article.

Of course we are not making the samples available for independent verification, because actual scientists and archaeologists might, like, steal my specimens and stuff. I expect the SCMP to run this highly important piece of news prominently and with the same degree of trenchant journalistic critique that the 'Noah's Ark' piece received.

Thanks and best regards,
[Madouc's Real Name]
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:31 AM   #17
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I love reading the Comments on stories like this.

Quote:
As to The Great Flood being the result of divine intervention is concerned, I am not buying it. A much more likely scenario and one backed up by growing archeological evidence, is that the flood was caused by a holocaust stemming from an ancient nuclear war between the Anunnaki and the Atalans (Atlanteans).
Well clearly, that is much more likely!
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by dogjones View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...turkey-arafat/


This is the dumbest news story I've seen in a while.



Classic. Any bets on what the structure actually is?

DJ
Well it's not the Ark.
Have a look at the photograph - no way can you fit a giraffe in that.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:36 AM   #19
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Apparently the wood has been dated as 4800 yrs old using Carbon Dating!!

Now, hasn't Carbon Dating and other means of radio-metric dating made certain fundamentalist beliefs look a little, well, implausible?
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:54 AM   #20
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More reasons why Ark is unlikely to ever be recovered or found: upon landing somewhere other than mountains in Turkey, and thence abandoned by Noah, et al, it was, as time went by, a convenient source of construction wood, or firewood, or cooking fire wood, for people in the area. Termites may have had a buffet or two as well ...

(this hypothesis is informed by the various ancient structures that were scavenged for building materials by succeeding generations, to include structures in Rome, the gates of Cuma, and much else).
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:59 AM   #21
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I'm thinking the main reason that Noah's Ark will never be found is.... because it never existed.

Anyone keeping tabs on how many times the Ark has been "found?"
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by RossFW View Post
Apparently the wood has been dated as 4800 yrs old using Carbon Dating!!
That's right around the time Stonehenge was built! Coincidence?
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:03 AM   #23
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Wouldn't they find the dung from hundreds of species coating the floor?
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:10 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by RossFW View Post
Apparently the wood has been dated as 4800 yrs old using Carbon Dating!!

Now, hasn't Carbon Dating and other means of radio-metric dating made certain fundamentalist beliefs look a little, well, implausible?
One of the biggest arguments I hear against evolution is that "carbon dating is completely inacurate and unreliably."

Apparently, unless they believe it supports their position.

How big is the structure they found? Big enough to hold two of every animal in the world and to keep all the carnivores in their own individual separate compartments so they could not eat the other animals? And of course teeny little compartments that would hold each species of insect, also individually, so they would not eat eachother?
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat View Post
One of the biggest arguments I hear against evolution is that "carbon dating is completely inacurate and unreliably."
That's particularly stupid since carbon dating is rarely used to date on an evolutionary timescale.

Quote:
Apparently, unless they believe it supports their position.
I say we give the guy points for believing in carbon dating. I doubt he extends the same logic to Potassium-Argon dating, though.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by dogjones View Post
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...turkey-arafat/


This is the dumbest news story I've seen in a while.



Classic. Any bets on what the structure actually is?

DJ
I think it may be the remains of a Buddist Monastery.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:45 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by KingMerv00 View Post
That's right around the time Stonehenge was built! Coincidence?
maybe Stonehenge is the ArK?
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:06 AM   #28
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Here's a couple more images. I'm wagering on total fake, lying for Jesus profit until i see more evidence they actually found anything.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:07 AM   #29
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"Noah's Ark" sillyness aside, this is pretty cool. It's a fairly large structure very high up. I'm reading the more in-depth account on the group's page (loads VERY slowly) and it's a really cool find.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:12 AM   #30
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This blog entry on the story cracked me up.
Quote:
..."The group of archaeologists ruled out an established human settlement, explaining one had never been found above 11,500 feet in the vicinity."

By the way, here WND makes the offer of a basically unrelated book by Joe Kovacs which explains all the mysteries of the bible, including the FACTS about Noah’s Ark, available front and center in their article for a really low price!

But now, back to the story. ...
I read the blog first and was perusing other web sites, then i looked closer at the link I cited in the above post. Sure enough, there was the link to the ad the blogger was joking about. The web page is the "WND Superstore".
Quote:
...Several compartments, some with wooden beams, are said to be inside, and could have been used to house animals, the group indicated.

Yes, Noah's Ark is completely real! Now find out "what you don't Noah" about the story as well as your spectacular destiny they rarely ever mention in church in this autographed No. 1 best-seller!

Another NAMI explorer, Man-fai Yuen, said ....
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:14 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
"Noah's Ark" sillyness aside, this is pretty cool. It's [It might be] a fairly large structure very high up. I'm reading the more in-depth account on the group's page (loads VERY slowly) and it's [it might be] a really cool find [if it isn't a total fraud].
Fixed that for you.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:21 AM   #32
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I'm amused that the URL seems to think that the ark landed on Mount Arafat.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:21 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
... I'm reading the more in-depth account on the group's page (loads VERY slowly) ...
So can you read this then?

Google's "translate this page" [not] of the web page.

(BTW, you can stop the page loading after a couple seconds and you get most of the page without waiting for all of it to load.)


There are more images at the bottom even if one cannot read the page.

You can take text sections and translate them on Babelfish.

I got this translation from one of the image subtitles (trad.Chinese to English):
Quote:
The scene demonstrated obtains the wooden sample, the crystal, the rope and the white granular object on the Yala sacrificial mountain
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:45 AM   #34
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Hmmmm.. If Noah built his ark on river banks, loaded it with a flock of chickens, a litter of pigs, a set of oxen, some sheep, and waited for the winter rains to raise the river, then drifted around for 40 days, his barge would have hit land right exactly at sea level. (I wonder what sea level was at the time?) Add 4,000 years of exaggeration via verbal lore, and you get a bit of a different story.

Hmm... I wonder what kind of Bronze Age Warming Period took place 4800 years ago, to allow a building on the top of "Mt. Arafat"? Some kind of temple perhaps? What religion was prominent in that time and place? Maybe that is the mount that Moses got his sermon on...
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:56 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat View Post
How big is the structure they found? Big enough to hold two of every animal in the world and to keep all the carnivores in their own individual separate compartments so they could not eat the other animals? And of course teeny little compartments that would hold each species of insect, also individually, so they would not eat eachother?
It doesn't need to be that big. If all of the pseudoarchaeologists are to be believed, Noah had 400 arks.
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Old 27th April 2010, 12:39 PM   #36
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I have seen a picture (sorry I can't retrieve it); but you can authenticate the Ark by the Darwin Fish bumper-sticker.
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Old 27th April 2010, 12:42 PM   #37
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All the while I was reading this story, I kept thinking "I wonder if any REAL scientist will investigate it?" Everybody involved seems to be a creationist, and/or already prone to believing in the Ark's reality.
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Old 27th April 2010, 01:32 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by dogjones View Post
Any bets on what the structure actually is?
I'll try "Tribal Mountain Structures" for $200, Alex...
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Old 27th April 2010, 01:40 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Fixed that for you.
Fair enough. Yes, it could be a complete fabrication... I'm going to assume it's real for now though. (Once more: real as in an actual old structure, not real as in ZOMG NOAH!)
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Old 27th April 2010, 04:17 PM   #40
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Don't most bible thumpers place the flood around 2300 B.C.? How accurate is their sooper sekret Iranian carbon-dating technique(according to the main article)? Why'd they go to Iran for carbon-dating? These archaeologists are Turkish and in Turkey, funded by a Hong Kong and USA group, and they go to Iran? Because Iran is famous for it's cutting edge carbon-dating technology? Or because it's a lot less likely that the media they're playing to will try to contact Iranian sources?

I'd imagine a good carbon-dating lab in North Korea would have been preferred.
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