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Tags crypto-archaeology , Noah's Ark

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Old 27th April 2010, 09:30 PM   #81
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To the thread title:

No.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:32 PM   #82
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Ugh. Shades of Ron Wyatt.

The Biblical dimensions of the ark put it as being smaller than an Arleigh-Burke class Destroyer, which I served on for six years. Two of every animal crammed into that? I don't think so.

We're honestly supposed to believe that one man and his family singlehandedly figured out how to do open-ocean sailing through trial and error?

What did they do for waste, sanitation, disease abatement, food spoilage, predator isolation, animal food, bacteria storage, ship righting...it goes on and on and on.

And there wasn't any world-covering flood. I feel sorry for the legitimate archaeologists that are going to have to go BACK to Ararat after all this time over a fat lot of nothing.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:44 PM   #83
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I'm still going with hoax. Mt Ararat is hardly K2, and countless thousands have climbed and trekked over it. How come it has never been "found" before.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:44 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Nursedan View Post
This fits in well here : http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...in-Turkey.html

What do you all think? Seems a little lacking in the details - a more full picture might come about if the object was excavated properly. Also, the story says these are "evangelical archaeologists", so a little confirmation bias maybe?
Not again.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
Ugh. Shades of Ron Wyatt.

The Biblical dimensions of the ark put it as being smaller than an Arleigh-Burke class Destroyer, which I served on for six years. Two of every animal crammed into that? I don't think so.

We're honestly supposed to believe that one man and his family singlehandedly figured out how to do open-ocean sailing through trial and error?

What did they do for waste, sanitation, disease abatement, food spoilage, predator isolation, animal food, bacteria storage, ship righting...it goes on and on and on.
Goddidit....Duh.
Quote:
And there wasn't any world-covering flood. I feel sorry for the legitimate archaeologists that are going to have to go BACK to Ararat after all this time over a fat lot of nothing.
Well, it might turn out to be an old army barracks or trading post from some forgotten war. It could be interesting...
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:50 PM   #86
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That wood is in surprisingly good condition, considering the thing has supposedly been weathering the elements for 4800-odd years.
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:51 PM   #87
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The fundies have been "finding" the ark on Mt Ararat for decades now. Funnily enough, whenever they are short of a bit of ready cash in the coffers, suddenly...! One of them finds "evidence" of the ark.

The next step will be to solicit funds from their gullible sheeple for yet another "scientific expedition" by their leadership to Turkey to follow up on this momentous find. That they happen to have to go there via some of the best tourist destinations in Europe - Greek islands, Turkish Adriatic coast, etc - staying at the best resorts, is entirely irrelevant.

L. Ron Hubbard showed them the way in milking the flock...
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Old 27th April 2010, 09:56 PM   #88
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there were monasteries built on that so called holly mt
and it sounds like one has been found

hong kong = red china and is allied somewhat with iran
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:08 PM   #89
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How many times can "the" Ark be found?

According to talk.origins, the Ark has been found 20 times before this. Most recently, Ron Wyatt "found" it in 1984 at the Durupınar site, Bob Cornuke "found" it in 2006 at the Alborz Mountains and so on... now Noah's Ark Ministries International "found" it on Mount Ararat in 2010.

Unsurprisingly, none of the discoverers have any formal education to tell a rock from petrified wood. However, they all ran tours/expeditions for Christian fundamentalists and sold books about their "findings."

Last edited by Questioninggeller; 27th April 2010 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:28 PM   #90
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Well, one expert thinks it is a "crock."

Quote:
Noah's Ark found? Not so fast
MSNBC
Tuesday, April 27, 2010 4:00 PM
by Alan Boyle


Web sites are buzzing over claims that remains from Noah’s Ark may have been found on Turkey’s Mount Ararat. The finders, led by an evangelical group, say they are "99.9 percent" that a wooden structure found on the mountainside was part of a ship that housed the Biblical Noah, his family and a menagerie of creatures during a giant flood 4,800 years ago.

But researchers who have spent decades studying the region – and fending off past claims of ark discoveries – caution that a boatload of skepticism is in order.

"You have to take everything out of context except the Bible to get something tolerable, and they're not even working much with the Bible," said Paul Zimansky, an archaeologist and historian at Stony Brook University who specializes in the Near East - and especially the region around Ararat, known as Urartu.

Cornell archaeologist Peter Ian Kuniholm, who has focused on Turkey for decades, was even more direct - saying that the reported find is a "crock."
...
Full: MSNBC

Last edited by Questioninggeller; 27th April 2010 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:35 PM   #91
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Here is an article dealing with the size and estimated number of animals required on board.

Was Noah's Ark BIG ENOUGH?
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/sizeark.html

Last edited by Radrook; 27th April 2010 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:42 PM   #92
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That article hurts my head. The leaps in logic are astounding.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:44 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Here is an article dealing with the size and estimated number of animals required on board.

Was Noah's Ark BIG ENOUGH?
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/sizeark.html
There goes your credibility.
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Old 27th April 2010, 10:59 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Questioninggeller View Post
Well, one expert thinks it is a "crock."
It hardly takes an expert to know it's a crock.
That which never existed cannot be found.
Now excuse me, I'm off to find Maui's canoe.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:07 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by dio View Post
There goes your credibility.
Er, it was there to start with?
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:10 PM   #96
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Do you know that we can't find the communists or "Red Chinese" in Hong Kong if we look for them? You obviously have no idea as to the workings of Hong Kong or China. Hong Kong assuredly isn't "allied", even "somewhat" with Iran, and neither is China. And if you think this group of Fundies thinks of themselves as part of Mainland China, think again.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:33 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by steve s View Post
Must have been a flotilla of arks.

Steve S
Pity the ones with the dinosaurs sank.

Yuri
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:37 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by dio View Post
There goes your credibility.

I posted it for informative purposes not to support any credibility. In fact, I didn't even read it. But OK. I can understand you discomfort my friend.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:39 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Er, it was there to start with?
Well well! Me thinks they are coiming out of the woodwork. No problemo. This is fun!
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:42 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts View Post
That article hurts my head. The leaps in logic are astounding.
Not as much as my head hurts when I read your evolutionist drivel. : )

Last edited by Radrook; 27th April 2010 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:42 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Here is an article dealing with the size and estimated number of animals required on board.

Was Noah's Ark BIG ENOUGH?
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/sizeark.html
1. Every animal would need feeding. Not only during the flood but afterwards until plants can grow again. However there is no space for food.

2. Then how do we go from having only a few species of dog to many species of dog? Evolution?

3. They did not carry any plants. So most plant life would be extinct. Some might grow from seeds. But then trees can take years to grow back. Tough luck on any animal that depends on trees.

4. The ark would be much bigger than any wooden ship ever built. There would be reasons why wooden ships would not be this big.

5. Who is going to look after all the animals?

6. Who is going to sail the ark?
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:44 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Er, it was there to start with?
Haven't been here for very long. In his current crusade he is posing as a sciency ID-ist. (He acted surprised when it was pointed out to him that ID is creotardism in disguise.)

Now, if he wants to play the "alternate science" game, he should keep it in the narrow gaps that he still has available (big-bang, origins of life), and not trump obvious facts, like there isn't enough water on Earth for a global flood.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:45 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Not as much as my head hurts when I read your evolutionist drivel. : )
Ohh man. I hope you're trolling.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:46 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
The fundies have been "finding" the ark on Mt Ararat for decades now. Funnily enough, whenever they are short of a bit of ready cash in the coffers, suddenly...! One of them finds "evidence" of the ark.

The next step will be to solicit funds from their gullible sheeple for yet another "scientific expedition" by their leadership to Turkey to follow up on this momentous find. That they happen to have to go there via some of the best tourist destinations in Europe - Greek islands, Turkish Adriatic coast, etc - staying at the best resorts, is entirely irrelevant.

L. Ron Hubbard showed them the way in milking the flock...


Well, if they did find something there resembling an ark the explanation would probably be that it was someone trying to escape a local flood. You know, the story about the Meditertaenian rushing into the black sea.

Last edited by Radrook; 27th April 2010 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:49 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Well, if they did find something there resembling an ark the explanation would probably be that it it
was smeone trying to escape a local flood.
... Or an online flood of flies gathering in a fetid face hole, like in another thread

GOTCHA !!!

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Old 27th April 2010, 11:55 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
1. Every animal would need feeding. Not only during the flood but afterwards until plants can grow again. However there is no space for food.

2. Then how do we go from having only a few species of dog to many species of dog? Evolution?

3. They did not carry any plants. So most plant life would be extinct. Some might grow from seeds. But then trees can take years to grow back. Tough luck on any animal that depends on trees.

4. The ark would be much bigger than any wooden ship ever built. There would be reasons why wooden ships would not be this big.

5. Who is going to look after all the animals?

6. Who is going to sail the ark?

Good questions!

Last edited by Radrook; 28th April 2010 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 27th April 2010, 11:57 PM   #107
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How did the marsupials get to Australia from Ararat 4,000 years ago?
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:00 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by ben m View Post
I'm amused that the URL seems to think that the ark landed on Mount Arafat.
Fox "news".........
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:00 AM   #109
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Madouc View Post
From the Press Conference:



So nothing to suggest that the structure is a boat, other than the walls seem a bit inclined.

I watched the last two videos from the website - the "Ararat Expedition" clip is just dramatic music playing over a 'hiking on snowy mountain' montage, while the "Wooden Structure" clip has the researchers entering the space and knocking on the sides saying "this is wood". Which is apparently all that's required to establish that it's the Ark of legend.

The saddest thing is, this might actually have been quite an interesting find if it were in the hands of competent archaeologists.
Is the correct answer!
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:01 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Well, if they did find something there resembling an ark the explanation would probably be that it was someone trying to escape a local flood. You know, the story about the Meditertaenian rushing into the black sea.
Pop quiz, hotshot.

How much water would it take to cover the earth to the altitude where these "discoveries" are being made?

While your'e at it, do olive trees have the ability to spontaneously germinate and bear fruit after being submerged for "forty days and forty nights?"

How many fossilized Nephilim have been found across the world?
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:05 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
There aren't that many species of dog. Well let's see:

African wild dog? Fox? Coyote?

Apart from those all the other dogs are the same species. Including the wolf and the dingo. The reason the domesticated dog looks so diiffereent is man's meddling with his genetics. But it remains one species.
Impossible. Otherwise you must accept evolution as a fact.
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:15 AM   #112
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The Daily Mirror report on this topic mentions that the wood used in this structure does not match the biblical account.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-22217374/
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:21 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by kerikiwi View Post
It hardly takes an expert to know it's a crock.
That which never existed cannot be found.
Now excuse me, I'm off to find Maui's canoe.
Dude, you're living on it! Look at me, I'm stuck on the fish instead...
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:29 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Impossible. Otherwise you must accept evolution as a fact.

I don't reject diversification via speciation if that's what you are referring to. It happens all the time. Also, please keep in mind that if two animals produce viable offspring they are the same species. If there differences are too significant then the offspring will be sterile. Domesticated dogs can all interbreed. So speciation has not yet occured among them.

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Old 28th April 2010, 12:49 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Floyt View Post
Dude, you're living on it! Look at me, I'm stuck on the fish instead...
I think you've got that backwards.
I am on the fish's tail!
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:51 AM   #116
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I think 'The Flood' probably did happen, but not like the literalists, who believe that the water covered the highest peaks.
There are probably lots of places that are under water now that wouldn't have been several thousand years ago, and the sea level has risen 120m since the last ice age, which makes the rise predicted from global warming seem pitiful. I think what happened is that there was a large plain that was near or below sea level, and locked off from the ocean when the ocean broke through, whilst it also happened to be raining an awful lot. the flooding from the ocean would have flooded the plain, making it seem like there was an endless expanse of water. the rain would have increased the water level there as well a little bit, resulting in a drop of the water level when it stopped raining, which might have 'beached' the arc, and eventually leading it to be on dry land. the 'Mount Ararat' might have been a nearby hill or mountain that became visible after the clouds cleared.
when this happened, who knows, but it could have happened several times, resulting in the flood stories all around the globe.
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:54 AM   #117
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Heck, you're right. How fisherman of him to draw up a fish bigger than the boat ("Yo whanau, I caught a fish this big!").
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:00 AM   #118
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Multiply what you are saying by a large number of generations then you will get different species.
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:09 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post
"Noah's Ark" sillyness aside, this is pretty cool. It's a fairly large structure very high up. I'm reading the more in-depth account on the group's page (loads VERY slowly) and it's a really cool find.
What annoys me is that these fools are blundering around on this truly interesting find, and no doubt manipulating it to suit their preconceived beliefs.

Surprisingly few people seem to have ANY idea of the timber dimensions needed in the structural elements of a wooden vessel this size. As the whole planet is supposed to have been submerged, this needed to be a sea-going ship, not just a barge. However, even in a barge, for this size of a vessel, a huge keel and rib structure is needed to withstand the pressure from the water. Those beams they show us would break like matches. You can't just build a huge box and float it; it wouldn't even be able to withstand the pressures from its own weight, let alone from a cargo. And I'm not even mentioning the beating of the waves in a planet-wide open sea!

They have found the remains of some kind of building complex. I sincerely hope some qualified and unbiased archaeologists will be allowed to examine it!

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Old 28th April 2010, 01:15 AM   #120
MRC_Hans
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
That wood is in surprisingly good condition, considering the thing has supposedly been weathering the elements for 4800-odd years.
Well, if it has been lodged in ice, at high altitude conditions, it is possible that it could be that well-preserved. There are wood timbers inside some of the pyramids, and they are almost as good as new.

But they have a catch 22 on the dating: Either they trust current dating methods, in which case we can easily prove that the flood never happend, or they don't, in which case all they have is some timbers of indeterminat age.

Hans
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