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Tags crypto-archaeology , Noah's Ark

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Old 28th April 2010, 06:19 AM   #161
SonOfLaertes
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Originally Posted by Nursedan View Post
Alright, fine. I guess there's no possibility that this could be Noah's Ark. None whatsoever. Case closed.

I choose to make up my mind after compelling evidence is shown, not before. Maybe I don't fully understand the concept, then, of skepticism.
Nursedan, I think you are misinterpreting the source of the skeptical reaction here. The technical and logistic nightmare that is Noah's Ark has been discussed and picked apart ad nauseaum over the years and many of the posters on this thread have looked at reams of evidence concerning the Ark, as well as many claims and counter claims that paint a sharp picture of the impossibility of this fable.

No one is dismissing this out of hand - there is a long background of discussion concerning the Ark.

Almost all reasonable people would react with instant skepticism if someone walked up to them and said that, say, they had proof that the Holocaust didn't happen. Claims of finding Noah's Ark are like that to the people who have studied the story.
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Old 28th April 2010, 06:22 AM   #162
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You so-called "logical" people are starting to irritate me with all this "science" rubbish. Don't you know that God works in mysterious ways? It is easily within his awesome power to adjust the formula for relativity on a whim, say to make energy equal mass times crocoduck squared inside a vacuum cleaner. This would make it entirely possible for Noah's poorly designed vessel to float as well as work around all the other details that would prevent it from working in a Godless world. And all this talk about marsupials and evolution is just plain bunk. If his son, Jesus, could turn a few fish and loaves of bread into enough food for thousands, then surely God can take a single species and turn it into thousands.

Further, while it may make more sense to YOU that he could have simply struck down all the humans and left the other animals alone, but that is BORING. Maybe the old Pagan gods operated that way, but not our one true God, he's got style. If he didn't do things backwards and confusing, then who would notice? The Bible's authors would have nothing interesting to write about, and nobody would sign on for Christianity.

So stop thinking independantly and get busy praying for salvation from your wicked, evidence-seeking ways, you nitpicking naysayers!
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Old 28th April 2010, 06:27 AM   #163
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How many fingers am I holding up?
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Old 28th April 2010, 06:30 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
How many fingers am I holding up?
Probably the longest finger.
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Old 28th April 2010, 06:39 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Skwinty View Post
Probably the longest finger.
*checks*

Probably right!
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Old 28th April 2010, 06:40 AM   #166
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I still wonder how many unborn children did God murder in the flood?
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Old 28th April 2010, 06:40 AM   #167
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I like the Sun's picture on that page.

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Old 28th April 2010, 06:49 AM   #168
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How do believers of Noah's ark account for the Wallace Line?
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Old 28th April 2010, 06:51 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
I still wonder how many unborn children did God murder in the flood?
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:00 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by SonOfLaertes View Post

No one is dismissing this out of hand - there is a long background of discussion concerning the Ark.
None of which I have been a part of. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:04 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
Have they got any arks there? Or any 12,000 foot snow-capped mountains someone has missed seeing?

Anyway, if the ark did run aground there, the reverse situation holds true for the English hedgehog - how did it get from rural south-eastern Australia all the way to the UK without a trace of it being found in Ararat or anywhere between?


Oh yeah. Lifeboats. Someone did say!
The dispersal of the animals from the ark to the four corners of the earth (it had four corners back then, of course) has such an obvious explanation that it should hardly need expounding: Pangaea.

I would think that an Australian, of all people, would understand that. How else do you explain the presence of English speaking people on your continent? Did they walk across the sea? The marsupials and the hedgehog were settled down as neighbors, just as the Australian and English did. Then they drifted.

The period of time between the landing of the ark and reliable historical records must have been a really amazing time to be alive. Not only were animals evolving before your very eyes, the continents were drifting so fast you could see it happen. A unicorn rancher in Atlantis goes to bed one night only to wake up the next day and find himself herding yaks in a Tibetan monastery. Such times!
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:09 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Michael Redman View Post
The dispersal of the animals from the ark to the four corners of the earth (it had four corners back then, of course) has such an obvious explanation that it should hardly need expounding: Pangaea.

So now the alleged flood and Noah's ark happened millions of years ago
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:16 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Michael Redman View Post
The dispersal of the animals from the ark to the four corners of the earth (it had four corners back then, of course) has such an obvious explanation that it should hardly need expounding: Pangaea.

I would think that an Australian, of all people, would understand that. How else do you explain the presence of English speaking people on your continent? Did they walk across the sea? The marsupials and the hedgehog were settled down as neighbors, just as the Australian and English did. Then they drifted.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:21 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
It seems to me that any wooden artifact found at altitude on Ararat is trumpeted as "a piece of Noah's Ark!!!1111!!eleventy!!!!". Good for the tourist trade I suppose.
Any geological formation you don't understand is also an Ark.

The search for Noah's Ark is like the search for the Holy Grail.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:23 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
I still wonder how many unborn children did God murder in the flood?
All of them would have died. If the point was to flush the whole bloody lot of humans, save Noah and family, being unborn or not is a trivial concern.

DR
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:29 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Come back Ron Wyatt
All is forgiven

really though what a load of bullcrap. this is the same claim made in 2007 when no one paid any attention, its taken them three years to find a lab that would do carbon dating (alarm bells) and they have presented zero evidence that the wood they analysed came from anywhere significant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searche...ains_of_Ararat
wiki even has this info


How do you spell H-O-A-X


gotta love the believers in this thread though
desperate much




When was the last time you saw a chichuaua crossed with a great Dane ?
How can you possibly doubt the impartiality of an organization named "Noah's Ark Ministries International ".



You're going to hell for that but I'll pray for you anyway.

(Oh lord make his fire hot and soon to come)

OOPS did I say that out loud.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:31 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost View Post
This thread reminds me of something hilarious that happened when I was a kid.

My mom was standing near me and my sister, when she asked, "Did you hear about Noah's Ark?"

My sister, a blossoming Christian fundie, smirkingly replied, "They found it, didn't they?"

Mom and I looked at each other with a bemused glance, and my mom said, "No, it's going out of business."

Noah's Ark was a local store.
Actually Noah's Ark is really a Christian Cash Cow.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:35 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Life boat.
Love Boat.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:39 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Zep View Post
How many fingers am I holding up?
All of them.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:40 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by SonOfLaertes View Post
No one is dismissing this out of hand - there is a long background of discussion concerning the Ark.
I disagree.

I dismiss this completely out of hand. Not because of any nonsense about the ark story (which it is) but because we've heard it all before. Every couple of years, there is another story about how some moron found the ark. The fact that someone else is coming along again to claim that no, this time we REALLY found the ark tells you about how legitimate those previous claims were.

I put claims that someone found the ark in the same bin as the end of the world dates. Just another idiot.

I have yet to been wrong.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:41 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
I still wonder how many unborn children did God murder in the flood?
Didn't count, god knew they were going to be sinners.*

*Actual fundie answer.
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Old 28th April 2010, 07:52 AM   #182
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Quote:
They claim carbon dating proves the relics are 4,800 years old
Would this be the sort of evangelicals who usually claim that dinosaurs didn't live millions of years ago, and radioisotope dating doesn't prove that they did because it isn't reliable?
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:00 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Michael Redman View Post
The dispersal of the animals from the ark to the four corners of the earth (it had four corners back then, of course) has such an obvious explanation that it should hardly need expounding: Pangaea.

I would think that an Australian, of all people, would understand that. How else do you explain the presence of English speaking people on your continent? Did they walk across the sea? The marsupials and the hedgehog were settled down as neighbors, just as the Australian and English did. Then they drifted.

The period of time between the landing of the ark and reliable historical records must have been a really amazing time to be alive. Not only were animals evolving before your very eyes, the continents were drifting so fast you could see it happen. A unicorn rancher in Atlantis goes to bed one night only to wake up the next day and find himself herding yaks in a Tibetan monastery. Such times!
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:04 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by wollery View Post
Would this be the sort of evangelicals who usually claim that dinosaurs didn't live millions of years ago, and radioisotope dating doesn't prove that they did because it isn't reliable?
Touche
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:19 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Love Boat.
No, that's how the Aussies got rabbits.
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:21 AM   #186
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Now we can find out what gopher wood is.
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:23 AM   #187
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God reached his hand down from the sky
He flooded the land, then he set it afire

He said, "Fear me again, know I'm your father,
Remember that no one can breathe underwater."

So bend your knees and bow your heads
Save your babies, here's your future...

YEAH HERE'S YOUR FUTURE!!!

God reached his hand down from the sky
God asked Noah if he wanted to die
He said, "No Sir, oh, no Sir!"
God said, "Here's your future.
It's gonna rain..."

So we're packing our things
We're building a boat
We're gonna create the new master race
'Cause we're so pure, oh Lord we're so pure!!!

So here's your future...

God told his son, "It's time to come home.
I promise you won't have to die all alone.
I need you to pay for the sins I create."
Son said, "I will, but Dad, I'm afraid!!!"

-"Here's your future" by The Thermals

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Old 28th April 2010, 08:28 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Nursedan View Post
Alright, fine. I guess there's no possibility that this could be Noah's Ark. None whatsoever. Case closed.

I choose to make up my mind after compelling evidence is shown, not before. Maybe I don't fully understand the concept, then, of skepticism.
I know some others have already replied, but just to put my two cents in:

I'm the guy here who keeps poking at people who say something is completely disproven or impossible, trying to point out absurd and idiotic hypothetical ways in which it could still happen just to show that you can't literally say something is impossible. Of everyone, I should probably be your best bet as far as finding someone to agree with you.

Here's my problem though... the facts as laid out in the bible don't make any sense to me. The story, as a whole, has so many issues that I honestly can't imagine anything at all that would convince me of it being real short of god himself pulling me aside and having a little chat with me.

If the structure was shown to be a boat, shown to be the proper age, and shown to have "PROPERTY OF NOAH" carved in it in the correct language and all of that was quadruple-checked by independent scientists I would happily agree that this thing had something to do with the biblical account. In a sense, then, I would be able to say "Yeah, they found Noah's Ark". If that's all you want, then there you go.

Finding what I described above still wouldn't make me believe the story as laid out in the bible though.
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:28 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
How can you possibly doubt the impartiality of an organization named "Noah's Ark Ministries International ".
Because I'm a class action lawyer for L.D. Babylonian Scribes incorporated.
theres a slight copyright issue we'd like to discuss (in open court) with anyone who's publically stating that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Anyone saying that from this point on is going to get sued (and possibly sacrificed to Bel)

No I'm not kidding


Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post

If the structure was shown to be a boat, shown to be the proper age, and shown to have "PROPERTY OF NOAH" PROPERTY OF ZIUSUDRA carved in it in the correct language AKKADIAN CUNEIFORM and all of that was quadruple-checked by independant scientists I would happily agree that this thing had something to do with the biblical MESOPOTAMIAN account. In a sense, then, I would be able to say "Yeah, they found Noah's ZIUSUDRAS Ark". If that's all you want, then there you go.
Youre treading very close to the litigation line there sonny


p.s. I have my eye on you RadRook

http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/epsd/e2510.html

Last edited by Marduk; 28th April 2010 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:36 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Now we can find out what gopher wood is.
It's the excuse to dissappear for a bit when the hard work needs to be done!
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:41 AM   #191
Marduk
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Now we can find out what gopher wood is.
Thats a mistranslation from Akkadian to Hebrew
It wasn't a Gopher
It was a Gerbil
see link
http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/epsd/e1665.html

Last edited by Marduk; 28th April 2010 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:43 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It's the excuse to dissappear for a bit when the hard work needs to be done!
In the old days, going out to fetch wood could have been hard work!
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:45 AM   #193
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About.com (which I had forgotten even existed) has all you need to know about Noah's Ark and the Flood.

Quote:
Points of Interest from the Story:

• God's purpose in the flood was not to destroy people, but to destroy wickedness and sin.
Oh I see. That makes perfect sense then. He had to 'destroy the village to save the village'.

One tiny little snagette... didn't actually work did it.
In fact Noah's son who was on the actual ark ended up being cursed by God (and his entire tribe of Canaans) because of the whole "Hey guys! Dad's nude! Check it out!" incident.

So not only did God fail to eradicate evil and sin, he actually let a 'sinful' man on the ark. Great plan.

Quote:
With more detail, God instructed Noah to take seven of every kind of clean animal, and two of every kind of unclean animal. Bible scholars have calculated that approximately 45,000 animals might have fit on the ark.
In an unusual definition of the word "calculated" by which it can also be taken to mean "Lied in a transparently stupid fashion".

Quote:
Genesis 7:16 interestingly points out that God shut them in the ark, or "closed the door," so to speak.
I'm not quite sure why this is "interesting". If I built a colossal ark with a big door in the side to let animals in, I would probably take it as read that before the global flood hit us I should probably... shut the door?
Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm unusually forward-planning or something.

Quote:
The ark was exactly six times longer than it was wide. According to the Life Application Bible study notes, this is the same ratio used by modern ship builders.
Now that is amazing. A description of a giant ship has it shaped... like a ship! And the shape of modern ships is amazingly different to the shapes of ships in Biblical times... how? Did they used to be much wider than they were long until Noah said "Hang on, I've got a crazy idea..."

Quote:
Question for Reflection:
Noah was righteous and blameless, but he was not sinless (see Genesis 9:20).
Help me out here. How can you be "not sinless" but at the same time be "righteous and blameless"?

Oh hang on, I remember now... if you're a Catholic priest.

Quote:
Noah pleased God and found favor because he loved and obeyed God with his whole heart. As a result, Noah's life was an example to his entire generation. Although everyone around him followed the evil in their hearts, Noah followed God. Does your life set an example, or are you negatively influenced by the people around you?
Do you have a bracelet that says "WWND"?

(Although Noah's answers to most issues seems to be either "Build a giant boat" or "Get completely drunk and naked" and to be honest these answers probably only solve about 70% of life's issues)
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:50 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by SOdhner View Post

If the structure was shown to be a boat, shown to be the proper age, and shown to have "PROPERTY OF NOAH" carved in it in the correct language and all of that was quadruple-checked by independent scientists I would happily agree that this thing had something to do with the biblical account. In a sense, then, I would be able to say "Yeah, they found Noah's Ark". If that's all you want, then there you go.

And all this would prove is that part of the Bible story was true. That there was a guy who had a large boat and his name was Noah. But that doesn't make the rest of it true, which is something very difficult to explain to fundies sometimes, who think if ANY part of a Bible story can be verified, the whole thing is true.

I gave a counter example in another thread the other day. When I was down in Mexico on an archaeology dig in college, we were studying Mayan ruins, and there were times we could verify information depicted in their mythologies displayed on temple walls. Does that make the Mayan's right? Let's just say, for example, that a story says that sacrifices were done to the jaguar god in such and such a place, and that they ended a famine. And we FIND that place, it really exists, and sacrifices to the jaguar god really did happen there. Does that mean that the jaguar god is real, and we should all still be doing human sacrifices?
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:59 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat View Post
And all this would prove is that part of the Bible story was true. That there was a guy who had a large boat and his name was Noah. But that doesn't make the rest of it true, which is something very difficult to explain to fundies sometimes, who think if ANY part of a Bible story can be verified, the whole thing is true.
Exactly.

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat View Post
Let's just say, for example, that a story says that sacrifices were done to the jaguar god in such and such a place, and that they ended a famine. And we FIND that place, it really exists, and sacrifices to the jaguar god really did happen there. Does that mean that the jaguar god is real, and we should all still be doing human sacrifices?
Agreed, and going one step further: let's say you also prove that there was a famine at the time, and that it ended right after the sacrifices. STILL not proof of a Jaguar God.
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Old 28th April 2010, 08:59 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
... It seems that the bible is to be taken literally when it is convenient to take it literally and to be reinterpreted when it has inconvenient little mismatches.
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Old 28th April 2010, 09:05 AM   #197
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But Noah isn't even an abbreviation of Utnapishtim!
Plagiarism, I tell you, plagiarism of the most basic kind... (being in the first chapter) and changing the names because it's hard to pronounce.
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Old 28th April 2010, 09:25 AM   #198
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Interesting claims being made here:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2..._is_a_fake.php
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Old 28th April 2010, 09:32 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post



When was the last time you saw a chichuaua crossed with a great Dane ?
You get a Great Wawa, of course. Ask Fat Freddy's Cat.
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Old 28th April 2010, 09:32 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Humphreys View Post
Interesting claims being made here:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2..._is_a_fake.php
The "carpenter" in the comments section makes a good point.

There's no way the wood in those photos is thousands of years old.
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