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Tags crypto-archaeology , Noah's Ark

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Old 28th April 2010, 09:48 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Humphreys View Post
Interesting claims being made here:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2..._is_a_fake.php
seems the most likely explanation (if not this exact story, then just fraud in general). Archaeology fraud happens all the time, including Biblical archaeology. Which isn't to say it's always the Biblical archaeologists/historians committed the fraud. Many times they really do believe in the sincerity of their discoveries, but are duped by hucksters.
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Old 28th April 2010, 09:49 AM   #202
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According to one of the men involved, this is all faked. Randall Price, who has a history of looking for the Ark, explains:

Quote:
I was the archaeologist with the Chinese expedition in the summer of 2008 and was given photos of what they now are reporting to be the inside of the Ark. I and my partners invested $100,000 in this expedition (described below) which they have retained, despite their promise and our requests to return it, since it was not used for the expedition. The information given below is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard (from others who claim to have been eyewitnesses or know the exact details).

To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake. The photos were reputed to have been taken off site near the Black Sea, but the film footage the Chinese now have was shot on location on Mt. Ararat. In the late summer of 2008 ten Kurdish workers hired by Parasut, the guide used by the Chinese, are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area (where the photos were originally taken) at the Mt. Ararat site. In the winter of 2008 a Chinese climber taken by Parasut’s men to the site saw the wood, but couldn’t get inside because of the severe weather conditions. During the summer of 2009 more wood was planted inside a cave at the site.

... our Kurdish partner in Dogubabyazit (the village at the foot of Mt. Ararat) has all of the facts about the location, the men who planted the wood, and even the truck that transported it.
Full Source
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:14 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat View Post
seems the most likely explanation (if not this exact story, then just fraud in general). Archaeology fraud happens all the time, including Biblical archaeology. Which isn't to say it's always the Biblical archaeologists/historians committed the fraud. Many times they really do believe in the sincerity of their discoveries, but are duped by hucksters.
Example please ?
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:15 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
No, that's how the Aussies got rabbits.
You mean rabbits aren't just small kangaroos?

They hop and have long ears so they sure look like the roo kind.
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:22 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Because I'm a class action lawyer for L.D. Babylonian Scribes incorporated.
theres a slight copyright issue we'd like to discuss (in open court) with anyone who's publically stating that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Anyone saying that from this point on is going to get sued (and possibly sacrificed to Bel)

No I'm not kidding



Youre treading very close to the litigation line there sonny


p.s. I have my eye on you RadRook
http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/psl/img/popup/Ofbm.png
http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/epsd/e2510.html
According to their story the Noah's Ark organization got the story straight from god so any legal issues will have to be litigated in the Celestial Court.
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:26 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
You mean rabbits aren't just small kangaroos?

They hop and have long ears so they sure look like the roo kind.
Sufferin' succotash!
Then aren't mice just small rabbits
making them dwarf Kangaroos
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f...use_shortfilms
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:28 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Ashles View Post
Asnip
I saw this in one of the quotes cited:

As a result, Noah's life was an example to his entire generation. Although everyone around him followed the evil in their hearts


Either the first sentence is false or Noah was a real bad example.
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:30 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
What shape is an ark? Is it just a box, like the ark of the covenant?
I get a picture in my head of what would be a perfect Gary Larson cartoon.

Noah as a kid, looking furtively out of the corner of his eyes, hunched over a box labelled "Noah's Ark", filled with his animal porn collection.
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Last edited by Region Rat; 28th April 2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Thought of a funny porn descriptor
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:42 AM   #209
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Even if it the ark is out there, will it be on this particular mountain?

Afterall, Genesis says that the ark came to rest "in the mountains of Ararat." This particular mountain, renamed to Ararat to better fit the bill, was identified as the place by this or that person thousands of years ago, who was making it up to fill in gaps in the source material -- which is how all theology works, by the way -- and credulous "researchers" today just assume that this tradition reflects reality.
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:42 AM   #210
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Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness

Quote:
In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood.

The voyage limit of the Ark, estimated from modern passenger ships’ criteria reveals that it could have navigated sea conditions with waves higher than 30 metres

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v8/i1/noah.asp.

Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness
http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html

Last edited by Radrook; 28th April 2010 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:45 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
According to their story the Noah's Ark organization got the story straight from god so any legal issues will have to be litigated in the Celestial Court.
Not if I'm only pursuing anti-Babylonian slander, there is only one true God,
Bel Marduk

any claims to the contrary are therefore slanderous.

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Old 28th April 2010, 10:49 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Example please ?
You really need convincing that archaeological forgery happens? Wow, that's...surprising. But, okay!

http://www.badarchaeology.net/fraudulent/index.php

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/

http://archaeology.about.com/od/frau...rchaeology.htm

http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/P...chaeology.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...143BEF34BC4C52
DFB066838F669FDE

http://proteus.brown.edu/cultarchaeology10/Home

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid...t_archeol.html

One of the best books on the subject of archeaological frauds is the great book "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries" by Kenneth Feder, which is a common book used in archaeology 101 classs
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:49 AM   #213
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Quote:
Little is known about the shape and form of the Ark’s hull. However, several explorers have each claimed that they have discovered the remains of the Ark at some sites on Mt. Ararat.8 Based on their arguments and references,9 we estimated the form of the Ark’s hull as that of a barge-type ship.
Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

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Old 28th April 2010, 10:55 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post

I take it the answer is no.
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Old 28th April 2010, 10:59 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Not if I'm only pursuing anti-Babylonian slander, there is only one true God,
Bel Marduk

any claims to the contrary are therefore slanderous.

That's irrelevant to the test results. Actually, I get the impression you aren't really interested in test results but simply in heckling and jeclkling for self amusement purposes. That's OK by me. But when I ask a serious question I reeally don't apreciate a heckling jeckling response. It's timewasting. Not that you aren't entitled to clowning around. Simply that I try to minmize that kind of stuff on my screen to reduce clutter and save time. In short, I prefer to discuss the matter with those who aren't here to simply slurge contempt as a self-induced catharsis at every opportunity.

Last edited by Radrook; 28th April 2010 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:03 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat View Post
You really need convincing that archaeological forgery happens? Wow, that's...surprising. But, okay!

http://www.badarchaeology.net/fraudulent/index.php

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/

http://archaeology.about.com/od/frau...rchaeology.htm

http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/P...chaeology.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...143BEF34BC4C52
DFB066838F669FDE

http://proteus.brown.edu/cultarchaeology10/Home

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid...t_archeol.html

One of the best books on the subject of archeaological frauds is the great book "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries" by Kenneth Feder, which is a common book used in archaeology 101 classs
No, specifically as you claimed that "some Biblical Archaeologists had been taken by Hucksters", I knew of two previous examples recently, that of the ivory pomegranate and that of the James Ossuary,
I was wondering if there was a market for things that Jesus (might possibly have) made back in his carpentry shop. Test tube holders, Spice racks, Wooden toy trucks, hammer handles etc etc

So I just wondered if you knew of any more examples than that, which, advise on how to find the right bible thumping market, in order, to make bundles of cash from some rich religious retards who don't know any better

I wasn't at all questioning the veracity of your post
.
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:06 AM   #217
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As I posted in the other thread, Randall Price, who gave money to the group, says the discovery was faked.
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:07 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
That's irrelevant test rtesults. I get the impression you aren't really interested in test results but simply in heckling and jeclkling for self amusement purposes.
I'm terribly sorry that you have been lied to.
I would seriously think of suing your church if I were you.
I have plenty of "victim support links if you need them"
otherwise
I will prey on you
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:09 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Sufferin' succotash!
Then aren't mice just small rabbits
making them dwarf Kangaroos
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f...use_shortfilms
.
These are the cutest little things... usually nocturnal, I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest.
But mammals, not marsupials.
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:16 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
.
I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest.
You are almost in danger of becoming a conservationist
Keep up the good work
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:18 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
.
These are the cutest little things... usually nocturnal, I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest.
But mammals, not marsupials.
OMG I WANNA PET IT

o
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:19 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
No, specifically as you claimed that "some Biblical Archaeologists had been taken by Hucksters", I knew of two previous examples recently, that of the ivory pomegranate and that of the James Ossuary,
I was wondering if there was a market for things that Jesus (might possibly have) made back in his carpentry shop. Test tube holders, Spice racks, Wooden toy trucks, hammer handles etc etc

So I just wondered if you knew of any more examples than that, which, advise on how to find the right bible thumping market, in order, to make bundles of cash from some rich religious retards who don't know any better

I wasn't at all questioning the veracity of your post
.
Ah, gotcha, I was confused The James ossuary would have been the first example I would have given as well, it's the first one I can think of as well. To be honest I'd have to pull out my old archaeology textbooks to give some lesser known examples that we studied back in school.

Also I should probably amend that statement, as the majority of cases we studied weren't cases in which real, actually, professionally trained with a phD archaeolgists were duped. It's really mostly people who are "self proclaimed archaeologists" who don't have actual training. Like that "Naked Archaeologist" Simcha Jacobovici. I can't stand that guy. I've seen his show and it's just terrible, and he's not even an archaeologist, he's a journalist. He'll believe anything anyone says to him. In one episode he was looking for evidence of the Biblical story of King Solomon. And this guy showed him two foundations of gates in two cities where King Solomon supposedly built gates. And that to this guy "strongly suggested" that the biblical King Solomon was real. That's what he accepts as "evidence." Pathetic.
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:30 AM   #223
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Mod InfoThread merged from three separate threads.
Posted By:Gaspode
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:32 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Gaspode View Post
Mod InfoThread merged from three separate threads.
Posted By:Gaspode
This explains why I'm having so much trouble finding the other thread I just read.
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Old 28th April 2010, 11:53 AM   #225
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Even if we were to ignore the fact that there's no geological or archaeological support for the Genesis flood, or if we were to postulate it was a local flood, only inundating the Near East, any speculation that this is Noah's ark runs up against a multitude of problems:

1) The source, the Sun, is hardly credible.

2) The discoverers, evangelical archaeologists (even assuming they actually have scientific credentials) are not an unbiased source of information. I would like corroboration from a variety of other researchers.

3) All we are shown in the article is a guy poking around in the interior of some enclosure. We would actually require images of the exterior of the putative ark, along with some measurements.

4) Even were we to accept the validity of a carbon date of 4,800 years ago, that would put the date at ca. 2,800 BCE. However, Sumerian civilization began in the fourth millennium, say at about 3,500 BCE, and Egyptian civilization began ca. 3,000 BCE. There is no evidence of destruction or disruption of either of these tow ancient civilizations ca. 2,800 BCE. So whatever artifact these guys found on Mt. Ararat wouldn't fit the time scale of even a local flood.

As has been noted by other posters, every so often there's another discovery of Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. Every last one of the prior "finds" have quietly faded away, hence the periodic need for new ark discoveries.
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:03 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness
"In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood."
But the cargo can't even fit in the thing in the first place, so I would say the whole thing is flawed. Then again, to be fair, I can't follow that link from work.
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:23 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Any geological formation you don't understand is also an Ark.

The search for Noah's Ark is like the search for the Holy Grail.
Heck with the Grail. I'm searching for Castle Anthrax.
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:27 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by TimCallahan View Post
Even if we were to ignore the fact that there's no geological or archaeological support for the Genesis flood, or if we were to postulate it was a local flood, only inundating the Near East, any speculation that this is Noah's ark runs up against a multitude of problems:

1) The source, the Sun, is hardly credible.

2) The discoverers, evangelical archaeologists (even assuming they actually have scientific credentials) are not an unbiased source of information. I would like corroboration from a variety of other researchers.

3) All we are shown in the article is a guy poking around in the interior of some enclosure. We would actually require images of the exterior of the putative ark, along with some measurements.

4) Even were we to accept the validity of a carbon date of 4,800 years ago, that would put the date at ca. 2,800 BCE. However, Sumerian civilization began in the fourth millennium, say at about 3,500 BCE, and Egyptian civilization began ca. 3,000 BCE. There is no evidence of destruction or disruption of either of these tow ancient civilizations ca. 2,800 BCE. So whatever artifact these guys found on Mt. Ararat wouldn't fit the time scale of even a local flood.

As has been noted by other posters, every so often there's another discovery of Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. Every last one of the prior "finds" have quietly faded away, hence the periodic need for new ark discoveries.
Okay, if we assume that the ark story is based on a local flood, and that there actually was some sort of boat that some guy put 40 or 50 animals in, there's no way the boat ends up at 4,000 meters on Mt. Ararat.
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:30 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Heck with the Grail. I'm searching for Castle Anthrax.
Screw you Anthraxalisterliteralists
I am creating my own
on a small scale from the inside out

Last edited by Marduk; 28th April 2010 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 28th April 2010, 12:48 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
I am not sure if they had the technology back then, but the most obvious way to control a vessel in that situation would be a sea anchor

The two sort of go together. Cloth or wood + rope = sea anchor. If they could sail they had one. The first sea anchor probably happened when the sail fell off the boat. Probably even if they didn't sail. In a small boat you can make a serviceable drogue just by dragging a line in the water.
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:03 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Complexity View Post
Conspiracy forum, of course.
And the winner is....

The religion thread.

Clearly another fake Noah's Ark find is the Mod's conclusion. I agree.
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:05 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Pure_Argent View Post
OMG I WANNA PET IT

o

They bite.

If it had been from Australia the bite would probably be poisonous.
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:23 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I disagree.

I dismiss this completely out of hand. Not because of any nonsense about the ark story (which it is) but because we've heard it all before. Every couple of years, there is another story about how some moron found the ark. The fact that someone else is coming along again to claim that no, this time we REALLY found the ark tells you about how legitimate those previous claims were.

I put claims that someone found the ark in the same bin as the end of the world dates. Just another idiot.

I have yet to been wrong.
That's what I said.
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:29 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Pure_Argent View Post
OMG I WANNA PET IT

o
.
Out in the desert at night with my telescope, I could hear all this pitter-pattering going on around me, but as it was the dark of the moon, couldn't see nuffink.
I took a flash photo of the ground nearby, and there were several of these running around.
With the number of holes in the ground, ground squirrels, chipmunks, lizards, snakes and these things all have places to hide when they need to.
I saw one chipmunk go into a hole, which had a dead one partially obscuring the entrance. Odd, that.
I'd wonder how any aspiring biologist in the days of the prophets or the lawgivers could even begin to examine an "unclean" animal to note anything about it, without being smote by one of the leaders yelling about blasphemy, like those loons that are yelling about the ones and zeros that were said to represent Moh in a bear suit, when it was Santa in fact.
Ignorance and hate based on religion is so demeaning to mankind, why do we put up with it?
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:35 PM   #235
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http://www.livescience.com/history/n...in-100428.html

Same message from Randall Price in the comments on this site.
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:36 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The two sort of go together. Cloth or wood + rope = sea anchor. If they could sail they had one. The first sea anchor probably happened when the sail fell off the boat. Probably even if they didn't sail. In a small boat you can make a serviceable drogue just by dragging a line in the water.
.
There's a whole bunch of stones with a perforation thru them that are the genuine drogue-stones suspended from the Ark to minimize the side-to-side wallowing in a heavy sea... I saw recently on Discovery, one.
That the stones are quarried from local rock which doesn't/didn't exist in Mesopotamia is a mere trifling objection to a ripping good yarn..
http://www.discoverynews.us/DISCOVER...ahs_ark_4.html
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Old 28th April 2010, 01:37 PM   #237
George 152
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness




Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness
http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html
There are a few problems with building a ship to the size of the supposed ark.
The strength of wood over such a large area.
Hogging and sagging.
Pumping the bilges.
Storing all that feed.
Mucking out.

The largest ships recovered from history are the Sun Barques from the boat burials at Khufu's Pyramid.
Each around 120 feet long.
The Ark is just a story ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh
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Old 28th April 2010, 02:20 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness




Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness
http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html
TalkOrigins disagrees: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH508.html

To date no one has been able to build an all wooden boat anywhere near as large as the ark. Given the number of fundamentalist Christian millionaires, one wonders why they haven't built an ark to the dimensions in the Bible to show that it would hold up against the twisting and bending forces that would occur on a vessel that large.
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Old 28th April 2010, 03:04 PM   #239
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Yet another fundie fraud
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Old 28th April 2010, 03:30 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Questioninggeller View Post
An article from the C.S. Monitor quoting him on the subject.
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