Noah's Ark found? - Page 6

Schrodinger's Cat · 28th April 2010, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Humphreys

Interesting claims being made here:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2..._is_a_fake.php

seems the most likely explanation (if not this exact story, then just fraud in general). Archaeology fraud happens all the time, including Biblical archaeology. Which isn't to say it's always the Biblical archaeologists/historians committed the fraud. Many times they really do believe in the sincerity of their discoveries, but are duped by hucksters.

Questioninggeller · 28th April 2010, 09:49 AM

According to one of the men involved, this is all faked. Randall Price, who has a history of looking for the Ark, explains:

Quote:

I was the archaeologist with the Chinese expedition in the summer of 2008 and was given photos of what they now are reporting to be the inside of the Ark. I and my partners invested $100,000 in this expedition (described below) which they have retained, despite their promise and our requests to return it, since it was not used for the expedition. The information given below is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard (from others who claim to have been eyewitnesses or know the exact details).

To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake. The photos were reputed to have been taken off site near the Black Sea, but the film footage the Chinese now have was shot on location on Mt. Ararat. In the late summer of 2008 ten Kurdish workers hired by Parasut, the guide used by the Chinese, are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area (where the photos were originally taken) at the Mt. Ararat site. In the winter of 2008 a Chinese climber taken by Parasut’s men to the site saw the wood, but couldn’t get inside because of the severe weather conditions. During the summer of 2009 more wood was planted inside a cave at the site.

... our Kurdish partner in Dogubabyazit (the village at the foot of Mt. Ararat) has all of the facts about the location, the men who planted the wood, and even the truck that transported it.

Full Source

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat

seems the most likely explanation (if not this exact story, then just fraud in general). Archaeology fraud happens all the time, including Biblical archaeology. Which isn't to say it's always the Biblical archaeologists/historians committed the fraud. Many times they really do believe in the sincerity of their discoveries, but are duped by hucksters.

Example please ?

tsig · 28th April 2010, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

No, that's how the Aussies got rabbits.

You mean rabbits aren't just small kangaroos?

They hop and have long ears so they sure look like the roo kind.

tsig · 28th April 2010, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

Because I'm a class action lawyer for L.D. Babylonian Scribes incorporated.
theres a slight copyright issue we'd like to discuss (in open court) with anyone who's publically stating that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Anyone saying that from this point on is going to get sued (and possibly sacrificed to Bel)

No I'm not kidding

Youre treading very close to the litigation line there sonny

p.s. I have my eye on you RadRook
http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/psl/img/popup/Ofbm.png
http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/epsd/e2510.html

According to their story the Noah's Ark organization got the story straight from god so any legal issues will have to be litigated in the Celestial Court.

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

You mean rabbits aren't just small kangaroos?

They hop and have long ears so they sure look like the roo kind.

Sufferin' succotash!
Then aren't mice just small rabbits
making them dwarf Kangaroos
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f...use_shortfilms

tsig · 28th April 2010, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Ashles

Asnip

I saw this in one of the quotes cited:

As a result, Noah's life was an example to his entire generation. Although everyone around him followed the evil in their hearts

Either the first sentence is false or Noah was a real bad example.

Region Rat · 28th April 2010, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Brainache

What shape is an ark? Is it just a box, like the ark of the covenant?

I get a picture in my head of what would be a perfect Gary Larson cartoon.

Noah as a kid, looking furtively out of the corner of his eyes, hunched over a box labelled "Noah's Ark", filled with his animal porn collection.

hgc · 28th April 2010, 10:42 AM

Even if it the ark is out there, will it be on this particular mountain?

Afterall, Genesis says that the ark came to rest "in the mountains of Ararat." This particular mountain, renamed to Ararat to better fit the bill, was identified as the place by this or that person thousands of years ago, who was making it up to fill in gaps in the source material -- which is how all theology works, by the way -- and credulous "researchers" today just assume that this tradition reflects reality.

Radrook · 28th April 2010, 10:42 AM

Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness

Quote:

In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood.

The voyage limit of the Ark, estimated from modern passenger ships’ criteria reveals that it could have navigated sea conditions with waves higher than 30 metres

http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v8/i1/noah.asp.

Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness
http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

According to their story the Noah's Ark organization got the story straight from god so any legal issues will have to be litigated in the Celestial Court.

Not if I'm only pursuing anti-Babylonian slander, there is only one true God,

any claims to the contrary are therefore slanderous.

Schrodinger's Cat · 28th April 2010, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

Example please ?

You really need convincing that archaeological forgery happens? Wow, that's...surprising. But, okay!

http://www.badarchaeology.net/fraudulent/index.php

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/

http://archaeology.about.com/od/frau...rchaeology.htm

http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/P...chaeology.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...143BEF34BC4C52
DFB066838F669FDE

http://proteus.brown.edu/cultarchaeology10/Home

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid...t_archeol.html

One of the best books on the subject of archeaological frauds is the great book "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries" by Kenneth Feder, which is a common book used in archaeology 101 classs

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Little is known about the shape and form of the Ark’s hull. However, several explorers have each claimed that they have discovered the remains of the Ark at some sites on Mt. Ararat.8 Based on their arguments and references,9 we estimated the form of the Ark’s hull as that of a barge-type ship.

Originally Posted by Radrook

Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

Radrook · 28th April 2010, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

http://skepacabra.files.wordpress.co...8/facepalm.jpg

I take it the answer is no.

Radrook · 28th April 2010, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

Not if I'm only pursuing anti-Babylonian slander, there is only one true God,

any claims to the contrary are therefore slanderous.

That's irrelevant to the test results. Actually, I get the impression you aren't really interested in test results but simply in heckling and jeclkling for self amusement purposes. That's OK by me. But when I ask a serious question I reeally don't apreciate a heckling jeckling response. It's timewasting. Not that you aren't entitled to clowning around. Simply that I try to minmize that kind of stuff on my screen to reduce clutter and save time. In short, I prefer to discuss the matter with those who aren't here to simply slurge contempt as a self-induced catharsis at every opportunity.

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat

You really need convincing that archaeological forgery happens? Wow, that's...surprising. But, okay!

http://www.badarchaeology.net/fraudulent/index.php

http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/

http://archaeology.about.com/od/frau...rchaeology.htm

http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/P...chaeology.html

http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...143BEF34BC4C52
DFB066838F669FDE

http://proteus.brown.edu/cultarchaeology10/Home

http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid...t_archeol.html

One of the best books on the subject of archeaological frauds is the great book "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries" by Kenneth Feder, which is a common book used in archaeology 101 classs

No, specifically as you claimed that "some Biblical Archaeologists had been taken by Hucksters", I knew of two previous examples recently, that of the ivory pomegranate and that of the James Ossuary,
I was wondering if there was a market for things that Jesus (might possibly have) made back in his carpentry shop. Test tube holders, Spice racks, Wooden toy trucks, hammer handles etc etc

So I just wondered if you knew of any more examples than that, which, advise on how to find the right bible thumping market, in order, to make bundles of cash from some rich religious retards who don't know any better

I wasn't at all questioning the veracity of your post

.

Questioninggeller · 28th April 2010, 11:06 AM

As I posted in the other thread, Randall Price, who gave money to the group, says the discovery was faked.

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Radrook

That's irrelevant test rtesults. I get the impression you aren't really interested in test results but simply in heckling and jeclkling for self amusement purposes.

I'm terribly sorry that you have been lied to.
I would seriously think of suing your church if I were you.
I have plenty of "victim support links if you need them"
otherwise
I will prey on you

I Ratant · 28th April 2010, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

Sufferin' succotash!
Then aren't mice just small rabbits
making them dwarf Kangaroos
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f...use_shortfilms

.
These are the cutest little things... usually nocturnal, I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest.
But mammals, not marsupials.

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest.

You are almost in danger of becoming a conservationist
Keep up the good work

Nonpareil · 28th April 2010, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
These are the cutest little things... usually nocturnal, I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest.
But mammals, not marsupials.

OMG I WANNA PET IT

o

Schrodinger's Cat · 28th April 2010, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

No, specifically as you claimed that "some Biblical Archaeologists had been taken by Hucksters", I knew of two previous examples recently, that of the ivory pomegranate and that of the James Ossuary,
I was wondering if there was a market for things that Jesus (might possibly have) made back in his carpentry shop. Test tube holders, Spice racks, Wooden toy trucks, hammer handles etc etc

So I just wondered if you knew of any more examples than that, which, advise on how to find the right bible thumping market, in order, to make bundles of cash from some rich religious retards who don't know any better

I wasn't at all questioning the veracity of your post

.

Ah, gotcha, I was confused

The James ossuary would have been the first example I would have given as well, it's the first one I can think of as well. To be honest I'd have to pull out my old archaeology textbooks to give some lesser known examples that we studied back in school.

Also I should probably amend that statement, as the majority of cases we studied weren't cases in which real, actually, professionally trained with a phD archaeolgists were duped. It's really mostly people who are "self proclaimed archaeologists" who don't have actual training. Like that "Naked Archaeologist" Simcha Jacobovici. I can't stand that guy. I've seen his show and it's just terrible, and he's not even an archaeologist, he's a journalist. He'll believe anything anyone says to him. In one episode he was looking for evidence of the Biblical story of King Solomon. And this guy showed him two foundations of gates in two cities where King Solomon supposedly built gates. And that to this guy "strongly suggested" that the biblical King Solomon was real. That's what he accepts as "evidence." Pathetic.

Gaspode · 28th April 2010, 11:30 AM

Thread merged from three separate threads.

Posted By:Gaspode

patchbunny · 28th April 2010, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Gaspode

Thread merged from three separate threads.

Posted By:Gaspode

This explains why I'm having so much trouble finding the other thread I just read.

TimCallahan · 28th April 2010, 11:53 AM

Even if we were to ignore the fact that there's no geological or archaeological support for the Genesis flood, or if we were to postulate it was a local flood, only inundating the Near East, any speculation that this is Noah's ark runs up against a multitude of problems:

1) The source, the Sun, is hardly credible.

2) The discoverers, evangelical archaeologists (even assuming they actually have scientific credentials) are not an unbiased source of information. I would like corroboration from a variety of other researchers.

3) All we are shown in the article is a guy poking around in the interior of some enclosure. We would actually require images of the exterior of the putative ark, along with some measurements.

4) Even were we to accept the validity of a carbon date of 4,800 years ago, that would put the date at ca. 2,800 BCE. However, Sumerian civilization began in the fourth millennium, say at about 3,500 BCE, and Egyptian civilization began ca. 3,000 BCE. There is no evidence of destruction or disruption of either of these tow ancient civilizations ca. 2,800 BCE. So whatever artifact these guys found on Mt. Ararat wouldn't fit the time scale of even a local flood.

As has been noted by other posters, every so often there's another discovery of Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. Every last one of the prior "finds" have quietly faded away, hence the periodic need for new ark discoveries.

SOdhner · 28th April 2010, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Radrook

Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness
"In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood."

But the cargo can't even fit in the thing in the first place, so I would say the whole thing is flawed. Then again, to be fair, I can't follow that link from work.

CORed · 28th April 2010, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by tsig

Any geological formation you don't understand is also an Ark.

The search for Noah's Ark is like the search for the Holy Grail.

Heck with the Grail. I'm searching for Castle Anthrax.

CORed · 28th April 2010, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

Even if we were to ignore the fact that there's no geological or archaeological support for the Genesis flood, or if we were to postulate it was a local flood, only inundating the Near East, any speculation that this is Noah's ark runs up against a multitude of problems:

1) The source, the Sun, is hardly credible.

2) The discoverers, evangelical archaeologists (even assuming they actually have scientific credentials) are not an unbiased source of information. I would like corroboration from a variety of other researchers.

3) All we are shown in the article is a guy poking around in the interior of some enclosure. We would actually require images of the exterior of the putative ark, along with some measurements.

4) Even were we to accept the validity of a carbon date of 4,800 years ago, that would put the date at ca. 2,800 BCE. However, Sumerian civilization began in the fourth millennium, say at about 3,500 BCE, and Egyptian civilization began ca. 3,000 BCE. There is no evidence of destruction or disruption of either of these tow ancient civilizations ca. 2,800 BCE. So whatever artifact these guys found on Mt. Ararat wouldn't fit the time scale of even a local flood.

As has been noted by other posters, every so often there's another discovery of Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. Every last one of the prior "finds" have quietly faded away, hence the periodic need for new ark discoveries.

Okay, if we assume that the ark story is based on a local flood, and that there actually was some sort of boat that some guy put 40 or 50 animals in, there's no way the boat ends up at 4,000 meters on Mt. Ararat.

Marduk · 28th April 2010, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by CORed

Heck with the Grail. I'm searching for Castle Anthrax.

Screw you Anthraxalisterliteralists
I am creating my own
on a small scale from the inside out

quadraginta · 28th April 2010, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by MG1962

I am not sure if they had the technology back then, but the most obvious way to control a vessel in that situation would be a sea anchor

The two sort of go together. Cloth or wood + rope = sea anchor. If they could sail they had one. The first sea anchor probably happened when the sail fell off the boat. Probably even if they didn't sail. In a small boat you can make a serviceable drogue just by dragging a line in the water.

Skeptic Ginger · 28th April 2010, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Complexity

Conspiracy forum, of course.

And the winner is....

The religion thread.

Clearly another fake Noah's Ark find is the Mod's conclusion. I agree.

quadraginta · 28th April 2010, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

OMG I WANNA PET IT

o

They bite.

If it had been from Australia the bite would probably be poisonous.

SonOfLaertes · 28th April 2010, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

I disagree.

I dismiss this completely out of hand. Not because of any nonsense about the ark story (which it is) but because we've heard it all before. Every couple of years, there is another story about how some moron found the ark. The fact that someone else is coming along again to claim that no, this time we REALLY found the ark tells you about how legitimate those previous claims were.

I put claims that someone found the ark in the same bin as the end of the world dates. Just another idiot.

I have yet to been wrong.

That's what I said.

I Ratant · 28th April 2010, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Pure_Argent

OMG I WANNA PET IT

o

.
Out in the desert at night with my telescope, I could hear all this pitter-pattering going on around me, but as it was the dark of the moon, couldn't see nuffink.
I took a flash photo of the ground nearby, and there were several of these running around.
With the number of holes in the ground, ground squirrels, chipmunks, lizards, snakes and these things all have places to hide when they need to.
I saw one chipmunk go into a hole, which had a dead one partially obscuring the entrance. Odd, that.
I'd wonder how any aspiring biologist in the days of the prophets or the lawgivers could even begin to examine an "unclean" animal to note anything about it, without being smote by one of the leaders yelling about blasphemy, like those loons that are yelling about the ones and zeros that were said to represent Moh in a bear suit, when it was Santa in fact.
Ignorance and hate based on religion is so demeaning to mankind, why do we put up with it?

Accidental Martyr · 28th April 2010, 01:35 PM

http://www.livescience.com/history/n...in-100428.html

Same message from Randall Price in the comments on this site.

I Ratant · 28th April 2010, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

The two sort of go together. Cloth or wood + rope = sea anchor. If they could sail they had one. The first sea anchor probably happened when the sail fell off the boat. Probably even if they didn't sail. In a small boat you can make a serviceable drogue just by dragging a line in the water.

.
There's a whole bunch of stones with a perforation thru them that are the genuine drogue-stones suspended from the Ark to minimize the side-to-side wallowing in a heavy sea... I saw recently on Discovery, one.
That the stones are quarried from local rock which doesn't/didn't exist in Mesopotamia is a mere trifling objection to a ripping good yarn..
http://www.discoverynews.us/DISCOVER...ahs_ark_4.html

George 152 · 28th April 2010, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Radrook

Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness

Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness
http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html

There are a few problems with building a ship to the size of the supposed ark.
The strength of wood over such a large area.
Hogging and sagging.
Pumping the bilges.
Storing all that feed.
Mucking out.

The largest ships recovered from history are the Sun Barques from the boat burials at Khufu's Pyramid.
Each around 120 feet long.
The Ark is just a story ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh

Ladewig · 28th April 2010, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Radrook

Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness

Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?

Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness
http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html

TalkOrigins disagrees: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH508.html

To date no one has been able to build an all wooden boat anywhere near as large as the ark. Given the number of fundamentalist Christian millionaires, one wonders why they haven't built an ark to the dimensions in the Bible to show that it would hold up against the twisting and bending forces that would occur on a vessel that large.

Complexity · 28th April 2010, 03:04 PM

Yet another fundie fraud

fullflavormenthol · 28th April 2010, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Questioninggeller

As I posted in the other thread, Randall Price, who gave money to the group, says the discovery was faked.

An article from the C.S. Monitor quoting him on the subject.

28th April 2010, 09:48 AM	#201
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,456	Originally Posted by Humphreys Interesting claims being made here: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2..._is_a_fake.php seems the most likely explanation (if not this exact story, then just fraud in general). Archaeology fraud happens all the time, including Biblical archaeology. Which isn't to say it's always the Biblical archaeologists/historians committed the fraud. Many times they really do believe in the sincerity of their discoveries, but are duped by hucksters.
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,456

28th April 2010, 10:14 AM	#203
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat seems the most likely explanation (if not this exact story, then just fraud in general). Archaeology fraud happens all the time, including Biblical archaeology. Which isn't to say it's always the Biblical archaeologists/historians committed the fraud. Many times they really do believe in the sincerity of their discoveries, but are duped by hucksters. Example please ?
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183

28th April 2010, 10:26 AM	#206
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Originally Posted by tsig You mean rabbits aren't just small kangaroos? They hop and have long ears so they sure look like the roo kind. Sufferin' succotash! Then aren't mice just small rabbits making them dwarf Kangaroos http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7f...use_shortfilms
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183

28th April 2010, 10:30 AM	#208
Region Rat Stinky Cheese Eater Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,825	Originally Posted by Brainache What shape is an ark? Is it just a box, like the ark of the covenant? I get a picture in my head of what would be a perfect Gary Larson cartoon. Noah as a kid, looking furtively out of the corner of his eyes, hunched over a box labelled "Noah's Ark", filled with his animal porn collection.
	__________________ The Optimist sees the glass as half full. The Pessimist sees the glass as half empty. The Engineer sees the glass as twice as big as it needs to be. Last edited by Region Rat; 28th April 2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Thought of a funny porn descriptor

28th April 2010, 10:42 AM	#210
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,834	Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness Quote: In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood. The voyage limit of the Ark, estimated from modern passenger ships’ criteria reveals that it could have navigated sea conditions with waves higher than 30 metres http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v8/i1/noah.asp. Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test? Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,834	Last edited by Radrook; 28th April 2010 at 11:26 AM.

28th April 2010, 09:49 AM	#202
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,048	According to one of the men involved, this is all faked. Randall Price, who has a history of looking for the Ark, explains: Quote: I was the archaeologist with the Chinese expedition in the summer of 2008 and was given photos of what they now are reporting to be the inside of the Ark. I and my partners invested $100,000 in this expedition (described below) which they have retained, despite their promise and our requests to return it, since it was not used for the expedition. The information given below is my opinion based on what I have seen and heard (from others who claim to have been eyewitnesses or know the exact details). To make a long story short: this is all reported to be a fake. The photos were reputed to have been taken off site near the Black Sea, but the film footage the Chinese now have was shot on location on Mt. Ararat. In the late summer of 2008 ten Kurdish workers hired by Parasut, the guide used by the Chinese, are said to have planted large wood beams taken from an old structure in the Black Sea area (where the photos were originally taken) at the Mt. Ararat site. In the winter of 2008 a Chinese climber taken by Parasut’s men to the site saw the wood, but couldn’t get inside because of the severe weather conditions. During the summer of 2009 more wood was planted inside a cave at the site. ... our Kurdish partner in Dogubabyazit (the village at the foot of Mt. Ararat) has all of the facts about the location, the men who planted the wood, and even the truck that transported it. Full Source

28th April 2010, 10:15 AM	#204
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 39,049	Originally Posted by timhau No, that's how the Aussies got rabbits. You mean rabbits aren't just small kangaroos? They hop and have long ears so they sure look like the roo kind.

28th April 2010, 10:22 AM	#205
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 39,049	Originally Posted by Marduk Because I'm a class action lawyer for L.D. Babylonian Scribes incorporated. theres a slight copyright issue we'd like to discuss (in open court) with anyone who's publically stating that the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Anyone saying that from this point on is going to get sued (and possibly sacrificed to Bel) No I'm not kidding Youre treading very close to the litigation line there sonny p.s. I have my eye on you RadRook http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/psl/img/popup/Ofbm.png http://psd.museum.upenn.edu/epsd/epsd/e2510.html According to their story the Noah's Ark organization got the story straight from god so any legal issues will have to be litigated in the Celestial Court.

28th April 2010, 10:28 AM	#207
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 39,049	Originally Posted by Ashles Asnip I saw this in one of the quotes cited: As a result, Noah's life was an example to his entire generation. Although everyone around him followed the evil in their hearts Either the first sentence is false or Noah was a real bad example.

28th April 2010, 10:42 AM	#209
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 15,892	Even if it the ark is out there, will it be on this particular mountain? Afterall, Genesis says that the ark came to rest "in the mountains of Ararat." This particular mountain, renamed to Ararat to better fit the bill, was identified as the place by this or that person thousands of years ago, who was making it up to fill in gaps in the source material -- which is how all theology works, by the way -- and credulous "researchers" today just assume that this tradition reflects reality.

28th April 2010, 10:45 AM	#211
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Originally Posted by tsig According to their story the Noah's Ark organization got the story straight from god so any legal issues will have to be litigated in the Celestial Court. Not if I'm only pursuing anti-Babylonian slander, there is only one true God, Bel Marduk any claims to the contrary are therefore slanderous.
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183

28th April 2010, 10:49 AM	#212
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,456	Originally Posted by Marduk Example please ? You really need convincing that archaeological forgery happens? Wow, that's...surprising. But, okay! http://www.badarchaeology.net/fraudulent/index.php http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/ http://archaeology.about.com/od/frau...rchaeology.htm http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/P...chaeology.html http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...143BEF34BC4C52 DFB066838F669FDE http://proteus.brown.edu/cultarchaeology10/Home http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid...t_archeol.html One of the best books on the subject of archeaological frauds is the great book "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries" by Kenneth Feder, which is a common book used in archaeology 101 classs
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,456

28th April 2010, 10:49 AM	#213
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Quote: Little is known about the shape and form of the Ark’s hull. However, several explorers have each claimed that they have discovered the remains of the Ark at some sites on Mt. Ararat.8 Based on their arguments and references,9 we estimated the form of the Ark’s hull as that of a barge-type ship. Originally Posted by Radrook Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test?
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183

28th April 2010, 10:55 AM	#214
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,834	Originally Posted by Marduk http://skepacabra.files.wordpress.co...8/facepalm.jpg I take it the answer is no.
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,834

28th April 2010, 10:59 AM	#215
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,834	Originally Posted by Marduk Not if I'm only pursuing anti-Babylonian slander, there is only one true God, Bel Marduk any claims to the contrary are therefore slanderous. That's irrelevant to the test results. Actually, I get the impression you aren't really interested in test results but simply in heckling and jeclkling for self amusement purposes. That's OK by me. But when I ask a serious question I reeally don't apreciate a heckling jeckling response. It's timewasting. Not that you aren't entitled to clowning around. Simply that I try to minmize that kind of stuff on my screen to reduce clutter and save time. In short, I prefer to discuss the matter with those who aren't here to simply slurge contempt as a self-induced catharsis at every opportunity.
Radrook Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,834	Last edited by Radrook; 28th April 2010 at 11:08 AM.

28th April 2010, 11:03 AM	#216
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Originally Posted by Schrodinger's Cat You really need convincing that archaeological forgery happens? Wow, that's...surprising. But, okay! http://www.badarchaeology.net/fraudulent/index.php http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/ http://archaeology.about.com/od/frau...rchaeology.htm http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/P...chaeology.html http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7...stianScam.html http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...143BEF34BC4C52 DFB066838F669FDE http://proteus.brown.edu/cultarchaeology10/Home http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid...t_archeol.html One of the best books on the subject of archeaological frauds is the great book "Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries" by Kenneth Feder, which is a common book used in archaeology 101 classs No, specifically as you claimed that "some Biblical Archaeologists had been taken by Hucksters", I knew of two previous examples recently, that of the ivory pomegranate and that of the James Ossuary, I was wondering if there was a market for things that Jesus (might possibly have) made back in his carpentry shop. Test tube holders, Spice racks, Wooden toy trucks, hammer handles etc etc So I just wondered if you knew of any more examples than that, which, advise on how to find the right bible thumping market, in order, to make bundles of cash from some rich religious retards who don't know any better I wasn't at all questioning the veracity of your post .
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183

28th April 2010, 11:06 AM	#217
Questioninggeller Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,048	As I posted in the other thread, Randall Price, who gave money to the group, says the discovery was faked.

28th April 2010, 11:07 AM	#218
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Originally Posted by Radrook That's irrelevant test rtesults. I get the impression you aren't really interested in test results but simply in heckling and jeclkling for self amusement purposes. I'm terribly sorry that you have been lied to. I would seriously think of suing your church if I were you. I have plenty of "victim support links if you need them" otherwise I will prey on you
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183

28th April 2010, 11:16 AM	#220
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Originally Posted by I Ratant . I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest. You are almost in danger of becoming a conservationist Keep up the good work
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183

28th April 2010, 11:18 AM	#221
Nonpareil The Terrible Trivium Join Date: May 2009 Location: Nethescurial Posts: 8,002	Originally Posted by I Ratant . These are the cutest little things... usually nocturnal, I've only seen this one in daytime when we destroyed its nest. But mammals, not marsupials. OMG I WANNA PET IT o
	__________________ "The only thing you can do easily is be wrong, and that's hardly worth the effort." - Norton Juster, The Phantom Tollbooth

28th April 2010, 11:19 AM	#222
Schrodinger's Cat Guest Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,456	Originally Posted by Marduk No, specifically as you claimed that "some Biblical Archaeologists had been taken by Hucksters", I knew of two previous examples recently, that of the ivory pomegranate and that of the James Ossuary, I was wondering if there was a market for things that Jesus (might possibly have) made back in his carpentry shop. Test tube holders, Spice racks, Wooden toy trucks, hammer handles etc etc So I just wondered if you knew of any more examples than that, which, advise on how to find the right bible thumping market, in order, to make bundles of cash from some rich religious retards who don't know any better I wasn't at all questioning the veracity of your post . Ah, gotcha, I was confused The James ossuary would have been the first example I would have given as well, it's the first one I can think of as well. To be honest I'd have to pull out my old archaeology textbooks to give some lesser known examples that we studied back in school. Also I should probably amend that statement, as the majority of cases we studied weren't cases in which real, actually, professionally trained with a phD archaeolgists were duped. It's really mostly people who are "self proclaimed archaeologists" who don't have actual training. Like that "Naked Archaeologist" Simcha Jacobovici. I can't stand that guy. I've seen his show and it's just terrible, and he's not even an archaeologist, he's a journalist. He'll believe anything anyone says to him. In one episode he was looking for evidence of the Biblical story of King Solomon. And this guy showed him two foundations of gates in two cities where King Solomon supposedly built gates. And that to this guy "strongly suggested" that the biblical King Solomon was real. That's what he accepts as "evidence." Pathetic.
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28th April 2010, 11:53 AM	#225
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,293	Even if we were to ignore the fact that there's no geological or archaeological support for the Genesis flood, or if we were to postulate it was a local flood, only inundating the Near East, any speculation that this is Noah's ark runs up against a multitude of problems: 1) The source, the Sun, is hardly credible. 2) The discoverers, evangelical archaeologists (even assuming they actually have scientific credentials) are not an unbiased source of information. I would like corroboration from a variety of other researchers. 3) All we are shown in the article is a guy poking around in the interior of some enclosure. We would actually require images of the exterior of the putative ark, along with some measurements. 4) Even were we to accept the validity of a carbon date of 4,800 years ago, that would put the date at ca. 2,800 BCE. However, Sumerian civilization began in the fourth millennium, say at about 3,500 BCE, and Egyptian civilization began ca. 3,000 BCE. There is no evidence of destruction or disruption of either of these tow ancient civilizations ca. 2,800 BCE. So whatever artifact these guys found on Mt. Ararat wouldn't fit the time scale of even a local flood. As has been noted by other posters, every so often there's another discovery of Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. Every last one of the prior "finds" have quietly faded away, hence the periodic need for new ark discoveries.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,293

28th April 2010, 12:03 PM	#226
SOdhner Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,372	Originally Posted by Radrook Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness "In conclusion, the Ark as a drifting ship, is thus believed to have had a reasonable-beam-draft ratio for the safety of the hull, crew and cargo in the high winds and waves imposed on it by the Genesis Flood." But the cargo can't even fit in the thing in the first place, so I would say the whole thing is flawed. Then again, to be fair, I can't follow that link from work.

28th April 2010, 12:23 PM	#227
CORed Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 7,859	Originally Posted by tsig Any geological formation you don't understand is also an Ark. The search for Noah's Ark is like the search for the Holy Grail. Heck with the Grail. I'm searching for Castle Anthrax.

28th April 2010, 12:27 PM	#228
CORed Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Central City, Colorado, USA Posts: 7,859	Originally Posted by TimCallahan Even if we were to ignore the fact that there's no geological or archaeological support for the Genesis flood, or if we were to postulate it was a local flood, only inundating the Near East, any speculation that this is Noah's ark runs up against a multitude of problems: 1) The source, the Sun, is hardly credible. 2) The discoverers, evangelical archaeologists (even assuming they actually have scientific credentials) are not an unbiased source of information. I would like corroboration from a variety of other researchers. 3) All we are shown in the article is a guy poking around in the interior of some enclosure. We would actually require images of the exterior of the putative ark, along with some measurements. 4) Even were we to accept the validity of a carbon date of 4,800 years ago, that would put the date at ca. 2,800 BCE. However, Sumerian civilization began in the fourth millennium, say at about 3,500 BCE, and Egyptian civilization began ca. 3,000 BCE. There is no evidence of destruction or disruption of either of these tow ancient civilizations ca. 2,800 BCE. So whatever artifact these guys found on Mt. Ararat wouldn't fit the time scale of even a local flood. As has been noted by other posters, every so often there's another discovery of Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. Every last one of the prior "finds" have quietly faded away, hence the periodic need for new ark discoveries. Okay, if we assume that the ark story is based on a local flood, and that there actually was some sort of boat that some guy put 40 or 50 animals in, there's no way the boat ends up at 4,000 meters on Mt. Ararat.

28th April 2010, 12:30 PM	#229
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Originally Posted by CORed Heck with the Grail. I'm searching for Castle Anthrax. Screw you Anthraxalisterliteralists I am creating my own on a small scale from the inside out
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,183	Last edited by Marduk; 28th April 2010 at 02:14 PM.

28th April 2010, 12:48 PM	#230
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by MG1962 I am not sure if they had the technology back then, but the most obvious way to control a vessel in that situation would be a sea anchor The two sort of go together. Cloth or wood + rope = sea anchor. If they could sail they had one. The first sea anchor probably happened when the sail fell off the boat. Probably even if they didn't sail. In a small boat you can make a serviceable drogue just by dragging a line in the water.
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it." *********************************************** "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

28th April 2010, 01:03 PM	#231
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 66,280	Originally Posted by Complexity Conspiracy forum, of course. And the winner is.... The religion thread. Clearly another fake Noah's Ark find is the Mod's conclusion. I agree.
	__________________ "Why do people say 'grow some balls'? Balls are weak and sensitive! If you really want to get tough, grow a vagina! Those things take a pounding!" — Betty White

28th April 2010, 01:05 PM	#232
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 20,947	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent OMG I WANNA PET IT o They bite. If it had been from Australia the bite would probably be poisonous.
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it." *********************************************** "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

28th April 2010, 01:23 PM	#233
SonOfLaertes Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 926	Originally Posted by pgwenthold I disagree. I dismiss this completely out of hand. Not because of any nonsense about the ark story (which it is) but because we've heard it all before. Every couple of years, there is another story about how some moron found the ark. The fact that someone else is coming along again to claim that no, this time we REALLY found the ark tells you about how legitimate those previous claims were. I put claims that someone found the ark in the same bin as the end of the world dates. Just another idiot. I have yet to been wrong. That's what I said.
SonOfLaertes Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 926	__________________ Best concise summary of Intelligent Design's never-changing key argument: “ the improbability of assembly of functional sequence all at once from scratch by brute chance” (Nick Matske, Panda's Thumb).

28th April 2010, 01:29 PM	#234
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19,258	Originally Posted by Pure_Argent OMG I WANNA PET IT o . Out in the desert at night with my telescope, I could hear all this pitter-pattering going on around me, but as it was the dark of the moon, couldn't see nuffink. I took a flash photo of the ground nearby, and there were several of these running around. With the number of holes in the ground, ground squirrels, chipmunks, lizards, snakes and these things all have places to hide when they need to. I saw one chipmunk go into a hole, which had a dead one partially obscuring the entrance. Odd, that. I'd wonder how any aspiring biologist in the days of the prophets or the lawgivers could even begin to examine an "unclean" animal to note anything about it, without being smote by one of the leaders yelling about blasphemy, like those loons that are yelling about the ones and zeros that were said to represent Moh in a bear suit, when it was Santa in fact. Ignorance and hate based on religion is so demeaning to mankind, why do we put up with it?

28th April 2010, 01:35 PM	#235
Accidental Martyr Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,058	http://www.livescience.com/history/n...in-100428.html Same message from Randall Price in the comments on this site.
	__________________ "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!" Kurt Vonnegut

28th April 2010, 01:36 PM	#236
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 19,258	Originally Posted by quadraginta The two sort of go together. Cloth or wood + rope = sea anchor. If they could sail they had one. The first sea anchor probably happened when the sail fell off the boat. Probably even if they didn't sail. In a small boat you can make a serviceable drogue just by dragging a line in the water. . There's a whole bunch of stones with a perforation thru them that are the genuine drogue-stones suspended from the Ark to minimize the side-to-side wallowing in a heavy sea... I saw recently on Discovery, one. That the stones are quarried from local rock which doesn't/didn't exist in Mesopotamia is a mere trifling objection to a ripping good yarn.. http://www.discoverynews.us/DISCOVER...ahs_ark_4.html

28th April 2010, 01:37 PM	#237
George 152 Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5,012	Originally Posted by Radrook Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test? Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html There are a few problems with building a ship to the size of the supposed ark. The strength of wood over such a large area. Hogging and sagging. Pumping the bilges. Storing all that feed. Mucking out. The largest ships recovered from history are the Sun Barques from the boat burials at Khufu's Pyramid. Each around 120 feet long. The Ark is just a story ripped off from the Epic of Gilgamesh
George 152 Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5,012

28th April 2010, 02:20 PM	#238
Ladewig I lost an avatar bet. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 25,926	Originally Posted by Radrook Study of ark dimentions in relation to seaworthiness Anyone have a different result from a similar or identical test? Another detailed study about the Ark's seaworthiness http://www.biblicalcreation.org.uk/b...es/bcs043.html TalkOrigins disagrees: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH508.html To date no one has been able to build an all wooden boat anywhere near as large as the ark. Given the number of fundamentalist Christian millionaires, one wonders why they haven't built an ark to the dimensions in the Bible to show that it would hold up against the twisting and bending forces that would occur on a vessel that large.
	__________________ I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.