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Old 29th December 2017, 11:28 PM   #1
Bob001
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Cop kills innocent man after "swatting" call...

Quote:
A police officer in Wichita fatally shot a man while responding to an emergency call that authorities now say was a tragic and senseless prank.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e75668567b68
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/cri...192244734.html

Apparently there are 400+ cases of swatting every year.
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/cri...192156209.html
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:33 PM   #2
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OK, the caller was an ******* who should be prosecuted, but I'm sorry, here we are again with an incompetent cop shooting someone after poorly assessing the situation. They want to blame the caller, and yes he (assuming it is not a she) has some blame. But the primary blame falls on the incompetent cop.

And they always say they thought he was going for a gun. Heard it before, doesn't make the assessment any less wrong.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 29th December 2017 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:40 PM   #3
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Is this really how the cops in the USA understand the words "to protect and to serve"?
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Old 29th December 2017, 11:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
Is this really how the cops in the USA understand the words "to protect and to serve"?
Yes.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:08 AM   #5
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Thank god none of the officers were injured. I know it's easy for us to judge from behind the safety of our keyboards, but I'd wager none of you have ever had to deal with an unarmed man failing to immediately obey a shouted and confusing series of commands under stressful circumstances. A police officer has no choice but to assume that any action by a violent thug is potentially lethal. If you lot came out of your ivory towers for a minute, you'd know that there's a war on cops in this country.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:09 AM   #6
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And, once again, the excuse for killing an unarmed person is that they were "reaching toward their waistband." This **** is supposed to be entirely against reasonable police procedures and thus illegal. Police aren't supposed to have license to shoot citizens because they think they might have a gun; they're supposed to wait to fire until there's an actual threat, e.g., a visible firearm in the hands of a suspect. Even then, until there's a move to point it at someone (or already witnessed shots/threats), seeing a gun should still earn a suspect a warning before opening fire.

They'll go after the people involved in causing and making the phone call, but I'm sure they'll let the murdererofficer off the hook...poor guy was probably scared!
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Old 30th December 2017, 03:58 AM   #7
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Utter madness, by the caller and by the police. Sadly, there will be no learning from instances like this.
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Old 30th December 2017, 04:58 AM   #8
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They've apparently arrested the 25 yr old who made the call:

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Two...467049153.html

He was arrested in 2015 for calling in a bomb threat:

http://www.glendaleca.gov/Home/Compo...News/1533/2129
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Old 30th December 2017, 06:54 AM   #9
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If the police come to your door, open it naked.
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:03 AM   #10
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Wow, state run free hitman service. Just a phone call away.
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
If the police come to your door, open it naked.

Anyone who opens the door to the police naked is clearly mentally unbalanced and therefore an obvious danger.

The threat level is therefore much higher. Shooting them promptly would be the only safe thing to do.
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:17 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Anyone who opens the door to the police naked is clearly mentally unbalanced and therefore an obvious danger.

The threat level is therefore much higher. Shooting them promptly would be the only safe thing to do.

I think that might depend on the sex and appearance of the door opener.
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Old 30th December 2017, 07:28 AM   #13
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I hope there is a threshold of false positives that a reasonable and rational police strategy loses that expectation.
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Old 30th December 2017, 08:11 AM   #14
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BBC put up an article about this shooting.

The article itself was fine, but the headline writers might need a bit of help ...
Quote:
Police shoot dead man after alleged Call of Duty 'swatting' hoax


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Old 30th December 2017, 08:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Degeneve View Post
Is this really how the cops in the USA understand the words "to protect and to serve"?
Pretty much.
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Old 30th December 2017, 08:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Pretty much.
I don't think it's anything to do with 'protect and serve', I really don't think that's what they think they're doing. They don't want to do that.

I think a combination of the 'if it bleeds, it leads' philosophy of major news outlets along with extremely unsuitable training that emphasises testosterone driven authoritarian techniques and a bizarre 'no backwards step' policy has led to a reasonable portion of US police officers dong their job while absolutely grade A ******** themselves terrified like small children being shouted at by scary men.
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Old 30th December 2017, 11:50 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
And, once again, the excuse for killing an unarmed person is that they were "reaching toward their waistband."
.....
The thing that's especially disgusting about that particular excuse is that when a cop stops you, he almost always will ask for your license or ID before anything else. But somebody who anticipates that request and reaches for his wallet will be perceived as "goin' for a gun!" So if this guy saw all the cops in front of his house, his instinct might have been to go out and say "What's up? I live here," and pull out his wallet to prove it. Bang!
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
If the police come to your door, open it naked.

Better to shoot, just to be safe. You might be Jack Harkness.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:20 PM   #19
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Very unfortunate.
I tend to think these sorts of incidents are bound to happen, although they should definitely be used as examples in training to ensure better performance in the future.

I think some of the sentiment about the cops being trigger happy, or "******** themselves" with fear, is a little bit misguided. Although I do understand where it comes from, and while I think better training can always mitigate for mistakes, part of problem just comes from the fact that people, cops or otherwise, simply react in high stress situations. And, the human mind has a tendency to fill in visual details that cannot immediately be discerned under such circumstances.
Having good reason to believe this individual might react violently, the officer's mind might have seen gun when his eyes didnt have time to, and he reacted. It happens and it is very unfortunate for everyone involved.

Is there a way to train this out of people 100%
Probably not.
Can we improve? Always.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The thing that's especially disgusting about that particular excuse is that when a cop stops you, he almost always will ask for your license or ID before anything else. But somebody who anticipates that request and reaches for his wallet will be perceived as "goin' for a gun!" So if this guy saw all the cops in front of his house, his instinct might have been to go out and say "What's up? I live here," and pull out his wallet to prove it. Bang!
See, I think the most disgusting thing about this excuse (which is obviously related, but a slightly different perspective) is the idea that even the possibility of a threat is being treated as cause to shoot someone. This is not how it's supposed to work. Police shouldn't be shooting until they've confirmed an actual threat. They're not combatants in a warzone; they're opening fire on people they're literally sworn to protect.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:27 PM   #21
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And this yet again is down to poor training and incompetent management.

In my state of Victoria there are nearly 6 million people with a police force of 15,000 who have millions of interactions with the public each year. There is on average one fatal police shooting a year. Operational Safety Procedures are as follows:

"To achieve this Victoria Police has adopted ten Operational Safety Principles. They are as follows:
1. Safety first – the safety of police, the public and offenders or suspects is paramount.
2. Risk assessment – is to be applied to all incidents and operations.
3. Take charge – exercise effective command and control.
4. Planned response – take every opportunity to convert an unplanned response into a planned operation.
5. Cordon and containment – unless impractical, adopt a ‘cordon and containment’ approach.
6. Avoid confrontation – a violent confrontation is to be avoided.
7. Avoid force – the use of force is to be avoided
8. Minimum force – where use of force cannot be avoided, only use the minimum amount reasonably necessary.
9. Forced entry searches – are to be used only as a last resort.
10. Resources – it is accepted that the ‘safety first’ principle may require the deployment of more resources, more complex planning and more time to complete."

Catch up USA police.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:49 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Very unfortunate.
I tend to think these sorts of incidents are bound to happen, although they should definitely be used as examples in training to ensure better performance in the future.

I think some of the sentiment about the cops being trigger happy, or "******** themselves" with fear, is a little bit misguided. Although I do understand where it comes from, and while I think better training can always mitigate for mistakes, part of problem just comes from the fact that people, cops or otherwise, simply react in high stress situations.
....
But the cops themselves often create or even imagine the "high stress" situation. In this particular case, the cops could have maybe phoned the house from their cars and found a sleepy homeowner who didn't know nuthin'. They could have surrounded the house, and from safe cover gotten on bullhorns and said "come out." If the cops were in safe positions it wouldn't matter where his hands were. There are non-lethal rounds for shotguns. They could have sent a dog to jump on him. Etc., etc. The cops didn't have to put themselves into a position where one could imagine an imminent threat. A cop shouldn't be killing anybody unless he has NO alternative, and he almost always does.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:53 PM   #23
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We need more training. It's outrageous that regular citizens cannot follow simple commands.
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Old 30th December 2017, 12:54 PM   #24
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The home owner probably would have done something bad in the future so he was just caught early, pre-crime and such.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
But the cops themselves often create or even imagine the "high stress" situation.
I'm sure it varies from department to department and from cop to cop, but I've definitely seen this sort of thing before. Some cops do have a strong tendency to escalate and aggravate situations that could be handled more smoothly. Even calm, respectful disagreement with a police officer often leads to officers shouting, cursing and behaving in a generally agitated fashion.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:20 PM   #26
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This is the call to 911

http://www.kansas.com/news/local/cri...192244734.html

Quote:
*constant clicking of keyboard*
- Is it a one-story or two-story house?
- One-story.
The officers obviously didn't stop and wonder why the house on the actual address didn't match the description of an alleged occupant of said house.

This will just be another one for the statistics. Oh wait that's right. Noone in the USA keeps any statistics of how many citizens the police kill.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:24 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
BBC put up an article about this shooting.

The article itself was fine, but the headline writers might need a bit of help ...



It depends, the text includes

Quote:
The call stemmed from a row between two gamers playing Call of Duty online, US media say, although the address raided was apparently unconnected to either.
as I understand it from US news sources this is correct.

Apparently the caller's motivation was a CoD dispute, however he got his would be victim's address wrong. Is the fact that it was that particular game relevant? No more so than which film the Aurora killed shot up, but that doesn't make it wrong (unless I'm missing something obvious?).
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:25 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
The officers obviously didn't stop and wonder why the house on the actual address didn't match the description of an alleged occupant of said house.
We don't know yet if the officers were given a description of the house.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:35 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Apparently the caller's motivation was a CoD dispute, however he got his would be victim's address wrong.
The address was wrong because the would
-be victim intentionally gave a false address to the pranker.

It has been said that he gave an address near where he lives but not his actual home address. The pranker thought he had given his true address during their online dispute.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
We don't know yet if the officers were given a description of the house.

Why would the operator ask for information they don't plan on passing to the responding officers?

Clearly there were failures on multiple levels here.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Why would the operator ask for information they don't plan on passing to the responding officers?

Clearly there were failures on multiple levels here.
Maybe, but it makes absolutely no difference what the operator passed on to police when it comes to the murder. Hell, it barely matters that someone made a false report. A police officer murdered an unarmed citizen because of an overactive imagination.

Hypothetical time: Let's say someone made a perfectly legitimate call that the murdered citizen had been waving a gun around and making threats. Upon the arrival of the police, that citizen answers the door and very wisely leaves his gun behind when he does so. Would it be any more right for a police officer to shoot him despite not seeing a gun?

Last edited by Babbylonian; 30th December 2017 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Why would the operator ask for information they don't plan on passing to the responding officers?

Clearly there were failures on multiple levels here.
The pranker caller gave an exact address. A description of the house isn't necessary to find it. However, the caller said that he was armed and had killed his father and was holding family members hostage and wouldn't put the gun down and wanted police there right away.

I suspect that the question of how many floors was to find out if the officers would encounter multiple floors and then ask the caller which floor he is on. When it becomes known that there is only one floor then the officers do not need to be directed to a particular floor to find the gunman. The dispatcher doesn't need to say it's a single floor home because the officers are going to see that when they arrive.
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Old 30th December 2017, 01:59 PM   #33
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The pranker said that he was holding family hostage inside a closet at gunpoint and that he had spread gasoline through the house and was ready to burn it down.
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Old 30th December 2017, 02:04 PM   #34
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Excerpt from 911 call:

Quote:
“They were arguing and I shot him in the head, and he’s not breathing anymore,” the caller said.

Asked if he had any weapons on him, the caller said, “Yeah I do.”

He then said he was standing by his mother’s closet holding a black handgun.

I’m just pointing the gun at them, making sure they stay in the closet,” the caller said.

When the dispatcher asked if he could put the gun down, he said no. He then made further threats.

I already poured gasoline all over the house, I might just set it on fire,” he told the dispatcher. “Do you have my address correct?”
Who again is responsible for this incident?

The guy tells cops he shot his dad, is holding his family hostage at gunpoint, will not drop the gun and may burn the house down (which could kill neighbors).

Not claiming the cops did everything correct (or not) but this was no normal call. The person who made the call is 99% 100% of the problem here.

Last edited by mgidm86; 30th December 2017 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 30th December 2017, 02:05 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Thank god none of the officers were injured. I know it's easy for us to judge from behind the safety of our keyboards, but I'd wager none of you have ever had to deal with an unarmed man failing to immediately obey a shouted and confusing series of commands under stressful circumstances. A police officer has no choice but to assume that any action by a violent thug is potentially lethal. If you lot came out of your ivory towers for a minute, you'd know that there's a war on cops in this country.
Does not matter- if the police kill an innocent civilian who is trying to follow instructions they should face jail, the department should face a major lawsuit and lose a ******** of funds and the specific shooter should be fired and be tried for, at least, manslaughter and get jail time!!!!
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Old 30th December 2017, 02:07 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
BBC put up an article about this shooting.

The article itself was fine, but the headline writers might need a bit of help ...


Agreed on the titling problem!!!!!!!
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Old 30th December 2017, 02:08 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Excerpt from 911 call:



Who again is responsible for this incident?

The guy tells cops he shot his dad, is holding his family hostage at gunpoint, will not drop the gun and may burn the house down (which could kill neighbors).

Not claiming the cops did everything correct (or not) but this was no normal call. The person who made the call is 99% of the problem here.
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Old 30th December 2017, 02:11 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
A police officer murdered an unarmed citizen because of an overactive imagination.
There is a bodycam video of the encounter and shooting but I haven't watched it.

It's reported that when Finch opened the front door he was ordered to raise his hands and walk out. He did that. Then he stopped and put his hands to his waistband. Then he was ordered to raise his hands again. He did and then put them back down to his waistband again. He did that up-down thing at least twice before he was shot because the officer thought he had pulled the gun on the last placement of hands to belt area.
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Old 30th December 2017, 02:13 PM   #39
mgidm86
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Yaaaaa okay.

Thread title should be "Prankster gets neighbor killed"
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Old 30th December 2017, 02:15 PM   #40
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Excerpt from 911 call:
The pranker didn't call 911. He called City Hall in Wichita. It's speculated that he did that because he's in Los Angeles and a call to 911 would connect him to LA police instead of Wichita.
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