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Old 31st December 2017, 09:46 AM   #1
William Parcher
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Shooting near Denver - multiple cops down

Multiple officers shot, suspect at large, bomb squad, SWAT on scene in Douglas County

Originally Posted by Denver Post
One Douglas County deputy died and four more wounded along with two civilians Sunday morning at a Highlands Ranch apartment complex. The shooter was also shot and is believed dead, the Sheriff’s Office said in a tweet at 9:32 a.m.
Not sure about the confirmed status of the shooter.

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/3...douglas-county
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Old 31st December 2017, 09:59 AM   #2
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Daily event in the US, is it not?
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Old 31st December 2017, 10:05 AM   #3
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Daily event in the US, is it not?
Shootings, yes. Shootings with multiple deputies shot are not so common.
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Old 31st December 2017, 11:46 AM   #4
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One deputy confirmed killed. 6 others (4 police and 2 civilians) reported as wounded.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/31/us/col...red/index.html
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Old 31st December 2017, 12:36 PM   #5
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Odd that there's no confirmation on the shooter. Still saying "believed to be dead".
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Old 31st December 2017, 03:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Odd that there's no confirmation on the shooter. Still saying "believed to be dead".
They won't know for sure until they are done shooting him.
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Old 31st December 2017, 03:43 PM   #7
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Sounds a bit inconsistent to me.

Quote:
The gunman who killed one Douglas County deputy and wounded four others ambushed the law enforcement officers as they responded to a domestic disturbance call at a Highlands Ranch apartment complex, Sheriff Tony Spurlock said Sunday.
Quote:
Four deputies arrived at the gunman’s home in the Copper Canyon Apartments at the same time. They were immediately shot, and they called for backup. All were wearing bulletproof vests but were struck in unprotected parts of their bodies.
First it is called an ambush.
Quote:
The deputies were let into the apartment by one of the two men, who were roommates. The deputies were having a conversation with the two men when the suspect decided to barricade himself in a bedroom and soon after opened fire with the burst that killed Parrish and wounded the other officers, Spurlock said.
Then it is a conversation gone off the rails.

Perhaps the deputies were acting in an threatening manner and he feared for his life.
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Old 31st December 2017, 06:10 PM   #8
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I wouldn't read to much into it. Early reports and reports during the actual event are almost always a mess.

And let's not let emotions from the other thread leak in here okay?

I'm (and I hope everyone else is as well) against people being shot without probable cause, be they civilians or police. Nothing in my opinions about police misconduct in anyway reduces my sadness and sympathy for this event.
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Old 31st December 2017, 06:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
I wouldn't read to much into it. Early reports and reports during the actual event are almost always a mess.

And let's not let emotions from the other thread leak in here okay?

I'm (and I hope everyone else is as well) against people being shot without probable cause, be they civilians or police. Nothing in my opinions about police misconduct in anyway reduces my sadness and sympathy for this event.
Seconded.
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Old 31st December 2017, 09:27 PM   #10
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This isn't even remotely newsworthy. .



https://youtu.be/zZIbpexA4g8


Thats freedom in action baby. This should be the NRA's anthem.

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Old 31st December 2017, 11:12 PM   #11
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Sorry for the cynicism but my reaction at this point:

White guy, after a standoff, opens fire and the cops were caught off guard.

There was an account the standoff lasted 30 minutes, not exactly consistent with how the shots occurred. If it was a standoff, how were the cops ambushed?

Black guys who are unarmed and innocent, no benefit of the doubt, cops shoot first on the flimsiest of movements.

Maybe police training needs a bit more emphasis on innate biases that are getting innocent people and cops killed?

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Old 1st January 2018, 01:21 AM   #12
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It's hardly surprising that, from time to time, members of the death squads police force are going to get some back.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:36 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sorry for the cynicism but my reaction at this point:

White guy, after a standoff, opens fire and the cops were caught off guard.

There was an account the standoff lasted 30 minutes, not exactly consistent with how the shots occurred. If it was a standoff, how were the cops ambushed?

Black guys who are unarmed and innocent, no benefit of the doubt, cops shoot first on the flimsiest of movements.

Maybe police training needs a bit more emphasis on innate biases that are getting innocent people and cops killed?
OK this needs some updating but the main point remains the same, when it's a white guy they aren't ready for being shot at.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Sorry for the cynicism but my reaction at this point:

White guy, after a standoff, opens fire and the cops were caught off guard.

There was an account the standoff lasted 30 minutes, not exactly consistent with how the shots occurred. If it was a standoff, how were the cops ambushed?

Black guys who are unarmed and innocent, no benefit of the doubt, cops shoot first on the flimsiest of movements.

Maybe police training needs a bit more emphasis on innate biases that are getting innocent people and cops killed?
I'm really into tactics so I have to ask.

By your statement you know of a safe effective, quick way to breach a barricaded room mid ambush. That is *********** awesome, please explain it, I'd love to know the details.

Otherwise it would seem you are trying to wedge in some racial rant in a situation that has no connection to racial politics.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:53 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
OK this needs some updating but the main point remains the same, when it's a white guy they aren't ready for being shot at.
And how does one become ready in that situation?

Your point would stand if no black man had killed a cop yet. But if you want to open that can of worms, we can.
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Old 1st January 2018, 11:28 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
...
Your point would stand if no black man had killed a cop yet. But if you want to open that can of worms, we can.
Bull.

What I have seen is video after video of cops not shooting white people they encounter, of giving them the benefit of the doubt, and video after video of the cops killing unarmed black men and boys in negligent split second decisions.

Clearly bias is affecting police judgement and everyone, cops and civilians, would be better served if the police would address the bias affecting their assessments.

Not that there aren't exceptions, for example the recent shooting of that poor man who they were shouting confusing instructions to all the while being ******** making unnecessary threats telling the guy his life depended on an absurd deference to police power.

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Old 1st January 2018, 11:40 AM   #17
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Here is the account from the police FB page:
Quote:
Timeline:
Douglas County Dispatch initially received the report of a “verbal disturbance” call at the location at approximately 3:00 a.m. involving two males. Both males were at the apartment, one male said the suspect was acting bizarre and might be having a mental breakdown. Deputies cleared the scene at 3:44 a.m., no crime had been committed at that time. Deputies were called back to the scene at 5:14 a.m. and the first officer arrived on scene at 5:17a.m. Three additional officers also arrived on scene, the last one arriving at 5:35am. One male had left the scene prior to officer’s arrival. The male returned to the scene and gave officers a key and permission to enter the apartment, but then left the scene prior to the shooting. At 5:56 a.m., four officers were hit by rifle rounds from the suspect’s bedroom. Three of the deputies were able to get to safety, however, the fourth officer, Deputy Parrish, was not able to retreat. Due to the amount of gunfire along with sustained injuries, the three injured deputies were not able to get to Parrish for an immediate rescue.
So here you have police that had already been to the apartment once. They go back, use keys to open the door and enter the apartment whereupon the shooting started, an ambush through the bedroom door.

Think of all the shootings we've seen where the police shoot first, or call SWAT in, where they would not have entered that apartment like they did.

Bad decision on the cops' part. I'm not addressing the bias so much as how that bias makes the police less safe as well as young black men.
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Old 1st January 2018, 12:47 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Here is the account from the police FB page:So here you have police that had already been to the apartment once. They go back, use keys to open the door and enter the apartment whereupon the shooting started, an ambush through the bedroom door.

Think of all the shootings we've seen where the police shoot first, or call SWAT in, where they would not have entered that apartment like they did.

Bad decision on the cops' part. I'm not addressing the bias so much as how that bias makes the police less safe as well as young black men.
So the guy is home in bed, minding his own business, gets awoken by somebody claiming to be the police, already in his house.
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Old 1st January 2018, 12:49 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Bull.

What I have seen is video after video of cops not shooting white people they encounter, of giving them the benefit of the doubt, and video after video of the cops killing unarmed black men and boys in negligent split second decisions.

Clearly bias is affecting police judgement and everyone, cops and civilians, would be better served if the police would address the bias affecting their assessments.

Not that there aren't exceptions, for example the recent shooting of that poor man who they were shouting confusing instructions to all the while being ******** making unnecessary threats telling the guy his life depended on an absurd deference to police power.
I don't see how any of that could possible have any selection bias on anybosdy's parts. Nosiree, no selection bias at all. On anybody's parts. Not much. Hardly.
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Old 1st January 2018, 01:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
So the guy is home in bed, minding his own business, gets awoken by somebody claiming to be the police, already in his house.
No.

More will come out about the earlier call to the house and his social media rants.
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Old 1st January 2018, 01:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I don't see how any of that could possible have any selection bias on anybosdy's parts. Nosiree, no selection bias at all. On anybody's parts. Not much. Hardly.
Your sarcasm confuses your point. I'm not sure which part of my post you are objecting to.
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:25 PM   #22
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http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/01/us/col...ord/index.html

Law school graduate. Uh huh....
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Old 1st January 2018, 05:01 PM   #23
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Heavy has some information on the killer. They include some of his YouTube videos. Self-declared libertarian and aspiring politician. Apparently had some alt-right stuff on his facebook page.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Your sarcasm confuses your point. I'm not sure which part of my post you are objecting to.
I think the point he was aiming for, and missing, was that you failed to take into account that the reason you see videos of black people getting shot is not that it occurs more often, but that those are the videos that people are more likely to post. The Selection Bias is created by those who posts the videos themselves because videoes of white guys getting shot simply aren't going to get the outrage and thus the hits, so aren't posted.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think the point he was aiming for, and missing, was that you failed to take into account that the reason you see videos of black people getting shot is not that it occurs more often, but that those are the videos that people are more likely to post. The Selection Bias is created by those who posts the videos themselves because videoes of white guys getting shot simply aren't going to get the outrage and thus the hits, so aren't posted.
Uhhh, I don't think that was it.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:37 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think the point he was aiming for, and missing, was that you failed to take into account that the reason you see videos of black people getting shot is not that it occurs more often, but that those are the videos that people are more likely to post. The Selection Bias is created by those who posts the videos themselves because videoes of white guys getting shot simply aren't going to get the outrage and thus the hits, so aren't posted.

The thing is, I'm perfectly prepared to believe the worst as there simply are no official figures.

My suspicious side leads me to think that the opposition to collection of official statistics in this area is because lots of people are fairly sure what they'll find and they think it will look very, very bad for many police forces in the US.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 05:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Uhhh, I don't think that was it.
add your selective memory pf what you have and have not seen.

You are doing "skepticism by crowd", exactly anti-skept.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:40 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
The thing is, I'm perfectly prepared to believe the worst as there simply are no official figures.

My suspicious side leads me to think that the opposition to collection of official statistics in this area is because lots of people are fairly sure what they'll find and they think it will look very, very bad for many police forces in the US.
I don't agree, mostly because when people outside the police force have put together the data, it shows that by far, most of those shot were shot while they, or someone nearby, was endangering people's lives with weapons or by other means.

You start to find that those that are in the "Unarmed" Category includes people who were in vehicles with active shooters, or who were trying to drown the cop that shot them, or were attacking the cop with a tree branch (yep, that counts as unarmed to some lists) or sadly happen to be be in the wrong place when a bullet fired at an active shooter passed through a wall and hit them.

The main reason that most police departments don't want to release the data is that 1) It's a lot more paper work they don't want, and 2) there are a lot of people that would argue any police shooting as the cops fault, even if the cop was ambushed in his vehicle and shot seven times before he shot the shooter it's still be his fault for simply being there and provoking the attack.

Why do they need to expose their people to a bunch of armchair detectives and Monday morning Quarterbacks who would have done it all so much better and demand the heads of any cop involved in a shooting?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:47 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I don't agree, mostly because when people outside the police force have put together the data, it shows that by far, most of those shot were shot while they, or someone nearby, was endangering people's lives with weapons or by other means.

You start to find that those that are in the "Unarmed" Category includes people who were in vehicles with active shooters, or who were trying to drown the cop that shot them, or were attacking the cop with a tree branch (yep, that counts as unarmed to some lists) or sadly happen to be be in the wrong place when a bullet fired at an active shooter passed through a wall and hit them.

The main reason that most police departments don't want to release the data is that 1) It's a lot more paper work they don't want, and 2) there are a lot of people that would argue any police shooting as the cops fault, even if the cop was ambushed in his vehicle and shot seven times before he shot the shooter it's still be his fault for simply being there and provoking the attack.

Why do they need to expose their people to a bunch of armchair detectives and Monday morning Quarterbacks who would have done it all so much better and demand the heads of any cop involved in a shooting?
You seem privy to a lot of statistics regarding these kinds of issue. Would you care to share, because statistics are hard to come by.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:51 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You seem privy to a lot of statistics regarding these kinds of issue. Would you care to share, because statistics are hard to come by.
Bollocks, there have been at least four of them linked to in various posts on this board over the past year, including one by the Washington Post!
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:26 AM   #31
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Things I learned in this thread. Every interaction between a person of color and police ends up with a dead person of color. Police would rather get shot than shoot a white person. Every single police department is full of racists.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:40 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Things I learned in this thread. Every interaction between a person of color and police ends up with a dead person of color. Police would rather get shot than shoot a white person. Every single police department is full of racists.
I don't understand how you could have learned that, because that's not what anyone has said, but if it helps you dismiss the concerns raised, go for it.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 05:44 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I don't understand how you could have learned that, because that's not what anyone has said, but if it helps you dismiss the concerns raised, go for it.
You must be reading a different thread. All have been implied.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 06:16 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
You must be reading a different thread. All have been implied.
Yes, that must be it. Alternate realities and all that.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:30 AM   #35
William Parcher
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The shooter was the one who initially called the police about a domestic incident between him and his gay partner.

Originally Posted by Denver Post
According to the recording, the suspect can be heard warning deputies: “Go away! Go away! Don’t come in! I warn you!”

He then yells “Identify! What’s your name?”

Almost immediately a fusillade of gunshots could then be heard on the recording. He would eventually fire more than 100 shots at officers Sunday morning. A smoke alarm also can be heard.

“What? Get the (expletive) out of here… Get out! Leave me alone! Why are you here? You don’t have a warrant. Go away. Leave me alone. Go! Get out!,” Riehl shouts before firing another round of shots.

“They broke my door! They broke my door! They broke my door! They broke my door! They broke my door in! Oh my God. Why? Why? Why?” shouts Riehl. “Leave me alone!”...

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/0...es-to-his-door
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:00 AM   #36
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I predict an out of court settlement to who ever files a wrongful death suit on behalf of Reihl's estate.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:47 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Why do they need to expose their people to a bunch of armchair detectives and Monday morning Quarterbacks who would have done it all so much better and demand the heads of any cop involved in a shooting?
Maybe because they *********** work for us? Possibly? And are not held to any reasonable standard that I've seen in the past thirty years?

And as to paperwork...? You really think that's a legitimate argument against police being more accountable? First take the onerous paperwork requirements off of nurses, doctors, and other health care workers and then maybe we can all discuss it.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:00 PM   #38
Darat
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Maybe because they *********** work for us? Possibly? And are not held to any reasonable standard that I've seen in the past thirty years?

And as to paperwork...? You really think that's a legitimate argument against police being more accountable? First take the onerous paperwork requirements off of nurses, doctors, and other health care workers and then maybe we can all discuss it.
Given the small size of many USA police forces I can see the onerous paperwork requirement,...

Charlene: Bob how many people have you killed this month?
Bob: Shucks Charlene how do you expect me to keep a count? Put down 3 or 4.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 04:29 PM   #39
The Norseman
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Given the small size of many USA police forces I can see the onerous paperwork requirement,...

Charlene: Bob how many people have you killed this month?
Bob: Shucks Charlene how do you expect me to keep a count? Put down 3 or 4.
lol Thank you!

I mean, yeah, everyone pretty much complains about too much paperwork, so I presume it's similar to coppers in the UK. And still, they manage to do that onerous paperwork and simultaneously managing not to kill too many unarmed civilians.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:37 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Maybe because they *********** work for us?
Except that they don't work for you. In the US, they work for the County, the State, the City, or the Federal Government. They don't work for you.

Quote:
And are not held to any reasonable standard that I've seen in the past thirty years?
At least not held accountable to your standard, right?

Quote:
And as to paperwork...? You really think that's a legitimate argument against police being more accountable?
I don't see how having to file federal paperwork on every shooting incident will make them more accountable that having the City or State investigate the shooting as is done now.

The reality of things is that previously those that investigated police shootings were seeing what Juties now are because DA's are bringing the cases to court under public pressure to "do something". Previously there would have been a recommendation not to charge, now the Juries are seeing the facts as giving not guilty verdicts, but that's not enough for some. Let's get honest here. What you and a lot of others really want is a bunch of kangaroo courts that will ignore any exculpatory evidence and find the charged cops guilty because you and your ilk believe that any cop that discharges his gun is automatically guilty.

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
I predict an out of court settlement to who ever files a wrongful death suit on behalf of Reihl's estate.
Case in point....

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Given the small size of many USA police forces I can see the onerous paperwork requirement,...

Charlene: Bob how many people have you killed this month?
Bob: Shucks Charlene how do you expect me to keep a count? Put down 3 or 4.
Very funny, but you know as well as I do that when it comes to the Feds, that isn't what they would be demanding from each department.

Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
I mean, yeah, everyone pretty much complains about too much paperwork, so I presume it's similar to coppers in the UK. And still, they manage to do that onerous paperwork and simultaneously managing not to kill too many unarmed civilians.
Or perhaps the situation in the UK is rather different with strict gun control meaning that they don't generally have to worry about a domestic abuse call turning into the shoot-out at the OK Coral with over 100 shots being fired through a closed door at them. Perhaps UK cops don't have to worry that a suspect reaching into the waistband of his pants is trying to locate and pull a firearm on them. Perhaps UK Cops don't have to worry that suspects at traffic stops are reaching into their glove compartments or central consoles for a loaded .45. Maybe UK Cops don't have to worry about 12 and 13 year olds in the local park actually shooting real guns at people!

Just perhaps....
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