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Old 1st January 2018, 02:46 PM   #1
JoeMorgue
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Oregon freaking out over the possibility of having to touch a gas pump.

I feel like this is one of those things a lot of people in other countries are gonna think I am making up.

But in America, in two states (well now one) motorist are forbidden from fueling their own vehicles. In New Jersey and (until midnight last night) Oregon vehicle fueling has to be formed by a "trained" attendant by law. In New Jersey fines for attempting to pump your own gas are as high as 250 dollars for the first offense and 500 dollars for the second offense.

Well on midnight of the New Year the law in question was repealed in Oregon (with some restrictions and exceptions). Not everybody is happy about it.

Quote:
"I've lived in this state all my life and I REFUSE to pump my own gas. I had to do it once in California while visiting my brother and almost died doing it. This a service only qualified people should perform. I will literally park at the pump and wait until someone pumps my gas. I can't even," -Mike Perrone

"I don't even know HOW to pump gas and I am 62, native Oregonian.....I say NO THANKS! I don't want to smell like gasoline!" - Sandy Franklin

"No! Disabled, seniors, people with young children in the car need help. Not to mention getting out of your car with transients around and not feeling safe too. This is a very bad idea. Grrr"- Cathy Dahl
http://www.fox8live.com/story/371693...e-gas-stations

An article about the history and cause of bans on self gas pumping for context: http://mentalfloss.com/article/18812...and-new-jersey
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Old 1st January 2018, 02:50 PM   #2
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From the article: ""No! Disabled, seniors, people with young children in the car need help. Not to mention getting out of your car with transients around and not feeling safe too. This is a very bad idea. Grrr"- Cathy Dahl"

I'm posting this to point out that at every gas station I've seen outside of Oregon, there are signs that state that if you're disabled or need assistance, you're to honk your horn and wait for an attendant to come help you out, so I'm not seeing why Oregon couldn't put up similar signs and have the attendants perform similar handicapped-friendly services.


ETA: I've never lived in Oregon but in several states around it and so have traveled through Oregon many times; I frankly find the whole "you cannot pump your own gas" to be really annoying as a matter of fact.

Of course, I was also raised with performing simple maintenance duties and chores regarding cars (like oil changes, filters, spark plugs, fuses, changing flat tires... that sort of thing) by myself which I've used numerous times over the years, so it strikes me as being quite absurd to object to pumping one's own gas.

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Old 1st January 2018, 02:53 PM   #3
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:13 PM   #4
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So overnight the entire state will go from full service to self service? There will be no full service stations whatsoever? I knew the people of Oregon had issues, but this is borderline paranoia. Trained attendant? I worked in full (and self) service stations all through school, I was given more training on how to inventory the candy rack than I was on how to pump gas.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
So overnight the entire state will go from full service to self service? There will be no full service stations whatsoever? I knew the people of Oregon had issues, but this is borderline paranoia. Trained attendant? I worked in full (and self) service stations all through school, I was given more training on how to inventory the candy rack than I was on how to pump gas.
No the law only "allows" gas stations to allow customers to pump their own gas, not require it. Many service stations mentioned in other article have stated they will retain their full service status at least for a time. More than a few quotes from station owners stated that they didn't have payment systems set up at the pumps themselves. And the American with Disabilities Act still requires gas stations to provide assistance to disabled customers.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:24 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
No the law only "allows" gas stations to allow customers to pump their own gas, not require it. Many service stations mentioned in other article have stated they will retain their full service status at least for a time. More than a few quotes from station owners stated that they didn't have payment systems set up at the pumps themselves. And the American with Disabilities Act still requires gas stations to provide assistance to disabled customers.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if you are sufficiently disabled that you can't fill your car, how can you be capable of entering and driving a car?

Yes, I know disabled people can drive cars, but I can't think of a circumstance where said disabled people aren't able to fill their car.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
I feel like this is one of those things a lot of people in other countries are gonna think I am making up.

But in America, in two states (well now one) motorist are forbidden from fueling their own vehicles. In New Jersey and (until midnight last night) Oregon vehicle fueling has to be formed by a "trained" attendant by law. In New Jersey fines for attempting to pump your own gas are as high as 250 dollars for the first offense and 500 dollars for the second offense.

Well on midnight of the New Year the law in question was repealed in Oregon (with some restrictions and exceptions). Not everybody is happy about it.



http://www.fox8live.com/story/371693...e-gas-stations

An article about the history and cause of bans on self gas pumping for context: http://mentalfloss.com/article/18812...and-new-jersey
How did mike perrone survive the Oregon trail? I can't even.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Maybe I'm missing something, but if you are sufficiently disabled that you can't fill your car, how can you be capable of entering and driving a car?

Yes, I know disabled people can drive cars, but I can't think of a circumstance where said disabled people aren't able to fill their car.
Wheelchair users have hand levers for the usual pedals and getting out of a vehicle and into a wheelchair and then around to the pump and the gasoline port and being able to maneuver it all properly is not an easy task; it's doable by some, but it could easily take more than twenty minutes to perform the complete function. To note, I was wheelchair bound for about five years so I'm speaking from experience.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:29 PM   #9
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There is an argument against the loss of jobs.

The rest: people resist change but they'll get over it. It's annoying to drive in OR because you want to get out and get that pump going and you have to wait for the attendant.

As for the disabled or un-abled, in states with self serve gas there are still stations with attendants.

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Old 1st January 2018, 03:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Wheelchair users have hand levers for the usual pedals and getting out of a vehicle and into a wheelchair and then around to the pump and the gasoline port and being able to maneuver it all properly is not an easy task; it's doable by some, but it could easily take more than twenty minutes to perform the complete function. To note, I was wheelchair bound for about five years so I'm speaking from experience.
Fair enough. The wheelchair drivers I've seen have been able to get out of their cars about as quickly as I can, but, yes, there would be a range of inconveniences.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
So overnight the entire state will go from full service to self service? There will be no full service stations whatsoever? I knew the people of Oregon had issues, but this is borderline paranoia. Trained attendant? I worked in full (and self) service stations all through school, I was given more training on how to inventory the candy rack than I was on how to pump gas.

Way back when the only pump training I got was from other attendants on how to "hang" the pumps. Someone would come and get a dollar or so of gas you would "hang" the pump, place the nozzle back without turning the reset arm. Later someone comes in for a fill up you use that pump and it already starts at the dollar or so where it was. I can't recall ever doing it myself but knew people who did and that was the extent of my pump training as a gas station attendant.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:50 PM   #12
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Up until now, drivers in Oregon could not pump themselves (like in most states), now they can. Like everywhere else they have a choice. Self-serve is usually cheaper around here.

Stupid article.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:51 PM   #13
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Growing up with pump attendants, the first time I stopped to fill up in the UK I sat and fumed at how crappy and slow the service was.

Until someone pulled up behind me and started to DIY.

And it sunk in.

I still miss the whole check the tyres and oil while I sit in comfort thing.
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Old 1st January 2018, 03:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post

I still miss the whole check the tyres and oil while I sit in comfort thing.
We still have places that do all of this (except they only check tires). You pay a bit more, as you should.
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:31 PM   #15
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Not gonna lie, when I was in Oregon & an attendant had to pump my gas I had a bit of a freak out because I'd never used full service before, & the lady ninja'd her way up to my door while I was distracted & scared the crap out of me.
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:46 PM   #16
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Full service would be good. I don't think I ever used a petrol station that had any kind of service here in the UK.
It would be good to be able to stand and have a smoke while someone else fileld the tank.
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:48 PM   #17
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Supermarket Petrol Stations would be an even bigger shock in the USA. The pumps are an't only self service, you pay by card at the pump in advance. No staff at all.
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Old 1st January 2018, 04:57 PM   #18
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Finally.

I have been a fugitive for so long.

There's amnesty, isn't there?
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Old 1st January 2018, 05:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Full service would be good. I don't think I ever used a petrol station that had any kind of service here in the UK.
It would be good to be able to stand and have a smoke while someone else fileld the tank.
What's funny (to me at least, being an Oregon resident) is that for all these years, here in Oregon "full service" meant clean the windshield, check the wiper fluid, check the tire pressure, and check the oil - extremely rare since about the mid 80s.

A little freak-out about the change to self-service is to be expected. It's new, it's less convenient (at least at stations where one can pay without getting out of the car), and jobs will be lost. We'll get over it.
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Old 1st January 2018, 05:30 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Supermarket Petrol Stations would be an even bigger shock in the USA. The pumps are an't only self service, you pay by card at the pump in advance. No staff at all.
Pay at the pump via card reader has been standard here in southern New England since the end of the last century. Even the nearby full service only station (the owner likes to employ retirees and school kids) has pay at the pump so the attendant doesn't have to go inside to use the credit card terminal.
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Old 1st January 2018, 05:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Supermarket Petrol Stations would be an even bigger shock in the USA. The pumps are an't only self service, you pay by card at the pump in advance. No staff at all.
Having encountered that type of filling station in California long before first seeing any in the UK, I suspect they might not be all that shocked in many states of the union.

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Old 1st January 2018, 05:55 PM   #22
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I think he may be referring to the "no staff" part of the whole deal. At least, that's how I read it.
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Old 1st January 2018, 06:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Wheelchair users have hand levers for the usual pedals and getting out of a vehicle and into a wheelchair and then around to the pump and the gasoline port and being able to maneuver it all properly is not an easy task; it's doable by some, but it could easily take more than twenty minutes to perform the complete function. To note, I was wheelchair bound for about five years so I'm speaking from experience.
This made me think (hold the sarcasm). In the UK pretty much every petrol station I have seen in my life has been self service and many of them only have one member of staff at a time (sometimes none) yet I cannot recall ever seeing someone in a wheel chair get out to fill their car or an attendant come out and do it.
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Old 1st January 2018, 06:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
This made me think (hold the sarcasm). In the UK pretty much every petrol station I have seen in my life has been self service and many of them only have one member of staff at a time (sometimes none) yet I cannot recall ever seeing someone in a wheel chair get out to fill their car or an attendant come out and do it.
Interesting. Might it be that the handicapped have a more difficult time in getting drivers' licenses there? As another poster pointed out, it's part of the American With Disabilities Act (the ADA) that businesses provide certain services to assist those with disabilities and our gas stations fall under those provisions (some buildings don't, for example, and there are other various exceptions which I had remained entirely ignorant of until I was unable, for a time, of actually going to stores in a wheelchair that I could access while walking.

Believe me, it sucked. I had at least insisted on a manual wheelchair and not electric so for a while I got pretty buff, upper-body wise!
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Old 1st January 2018, 06:22 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There is an argument against the loss of jobs.

The rest: people resist change but they'll get over it. It's annoying to drive in OR because you want to get out and get that pump going and you have to wait for the attendant.

As for the disabled or un-abled, in states with self serve gas there are still stations with attendants.
I was just in OR a couple of days ago and had to get gas. I don't mind not pumping it myself, but it bothers me to hand my credit card over to some minimum wage flunky. Which I do frequently in restaurants without worrying.

My cousin in Portland is going to have difficulty with this. I'm pretty sure he's never pumped gas in his life. It'll take a while, but the non-self-service stations will be going away.

The talk of "Full Service" reminds me of back in the late '60's when I drove a Corvair. It was always amusing to watch them try to figure out how to open the front to check the oil. Then I'd tell them it was in the back but don't bother. The car used cooling air for the heater. Every drop of spilled oil was fumes in the cabin come winter time.
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Old 1st January 2018, 07:51 PM   #26
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Damn, I'm feeling old. When I was a kid full service was the norm.
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:16 PM   #27
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When I was in Brazil 10 years ago we couldn't pump our own gas. Is it really that unusual around the world?

I was telling a kid I know that when I started driving you didn't have to pay first. There was no such thing. He was shocked.

That's when the world started falling apart.
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:21 PM   #28
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I live right across the river from New Jersey. I HATE getting gas there. In the amount of time it takes to wait for an attendant to even start fueling, I could be done and on my way. It is such a giant waste of time, and that's just when its not busy. When a gas station gets busy, long lines form quickly and the problems just compound on each other. If the station had been self serve, a line that was 6 cars deep would be maybe 1 car deep. So much waste.

I dislike the jobs argument because I dislike silly laws that are in place just to keep people employed. As for the "but what about disabled people?/I don't want to pump my own gas!" There's a simple solution, just require stations to have at least one full service pump
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
As for the "but what about disabled people?/I don't want to pump my own gas!" There's a simple solution, just require stations to have at least one full service pump
And again this already covered under the ADA*

From the Official ADA webpage: https://www.ada.gov/gasserve.htm (bolding mine)

Quote:
Americans with Disabilities Act: Assistance at Self-Serve Gas Stations

People with disabilities may find it difficult or impossible to use the controls, hose, or nozzle of a self-serve gas pump. As a result, at stations that offer both self and full service, people with disabilities might have no choice but to purchase the more expensive gas from a full-serve pump. At locations with only self-serve pumps, they might be unable to purchase gas at all.

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) requires self-serve gas stations to provide equal access to their customers with disabilities. If necessary to provide access, gas stations must -

Provide refueling assistance upon the request of an individual with a disability. A service station or convenience store is not required to provide such service at any time that it is operating on a remote control basis with a single employee, but is encouraged to do so, if feasible.

Let patrons know (e.g., through appropriate signs) that customers with disabilities can obtain refueling assistance by either honking or otherwise signaling an employee.

Provide the refueling assistance without any charge beyond the self-serve price.

*For my foreign peep the American with Disabilities Act, a broad and sweeping 1990 civil rights law here in the states requiring "reasonable accommodations" for people with disabilities in public activities and places.
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:37 PM   #30
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"Fake news"; They made up those quotes and the people they claimed to get them from. There's no way they found any actual people who seriously want this absurd "service" of having some creepy character emerge from hiding and start hanging out right next to your vehicle demanding money for the "service" of getting in your way while you're trying to get stuff done.

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Supermarket Petrol Stations would be an even bigger shock in the USA. The pumps are an't only self service, you pay by card at the pump in advance. No staff at all.
Why don't other countries have those, and why would they be shocking to a foreign visitor to the USA, instead of just slightly unexpected?

Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
"full service" meant clean the windshield, check the wiper fluid, check the tire pressure, and check the oil - extremely rare since about the mid 80s.
Weird idea. I understand that tire technology has vastly improved over the years so maybe they once leaked many times faster than they do now, but there's no way those other things would need to be done so amazingly often. It sounds like they were just trying to give the impression of providing a service to people who didn't realize how pointless it was without actually needing to do any serving. It reminds me of that thing I've heard of but never seen in real life about poor/unemployed/homeless people hanging out at major intersections to suddenly appear in front of stopped cars and wipe their windshields and then ask for payment for doing so.
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Weird idea. I understand that tire technology has vastly improved over the years so maybe they once leaked many times faster than they do now, but there's no way those other things would need to be done so amazingly often. It sounds like they were just trying to give the impression of providing a service to people who didn't realize how pointless it was without actually needing to do any serving. It reminds me of that thing I've heard of but never seen in real life about poor/unemployed/homeless people hanging out at major intersections to suddenly appear in front of stopped cars and wipe their windshields and then ask for payment for doing so.
It sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about, which wouldn't be surprising if you're relatively young. These various services wouldn't automatically happen (as parodied in the movie Back to the Future). The attendant would ask if you wanted to have particular services performed. This is one reason "gas stations" used to be called "service stations" (it's also because most used to also have a garage and a car mechanic available).

Also, you should be checking your tire pressure about every month or two. Automobile tires lose pressure over time even here in the amazing 21st century.
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Old 1st January 2018, 08:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I was just in OR a couple of days ago and had to get gas. I don't mind not pumping it myself, but it bothers me to hand my credit card over to some minimum wage flunky. Which I do frequently in restaurants without worrying.

My cousin in Portland is going to have difficulty with this. I'm pretty sure he's never pumped gas in his life. It'll take a while, but the non-self-service stations will be going away.

The talk of "Full Service" reminds me of back in the late '60's when I drove a Corvair. It was always amusing to watch them try to figure out how to open the front to check the oil. Then I'd tell them it was in the back but don't bother. The car used cooling air for the heater. Every drop of spilled oil was fumes in the cabin come winter time.
Your cousin in Portland won't notice, as the law isn't changing there. Only counties with less than 40,000 people are affected (the same ones that were allowed to go to self-serve from 10:00 to 06:00 back in 2015).

More accurate, if less clickable sources:
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-no...as_statio.html
https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/480.341
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:01 PM   #33
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Anyone not up to the job of pumping their own fuel, outside of disability status, is probably not competent enough to be trusted with operating a motor vehicle.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:29 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
.... I dislike the jobs argument because I dislike silly laws that are in place just to keep people employed. ...
There're two sides to that coin. It's not that the law exists to keep people employed. It's that changing the law in this case will displace thousands of employees.

If a society is going to do that with a change in the law that will benefit people, there ought to be consideration for shifting those displaced employees into other jobs.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:33 PM   #35
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Only in 'merica!

Meanwhile, here in the land of commonsense, gas stations are installing credit/debit card enabled prepay pumps so that motorists can have the option of filling up or pumping a predetermined amount of gas without leaving the forecourt.




1. Insert your card and enter your PIN
2. Pump your gas
3. Remove your card and drive away
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Last edited by smartcooky; 1st January 2018 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:46 PM   #36
JoeMorgue
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Only in 'merica!

Meanwhile, here in the land of commonsense, gas stations are installing credit/debit card enabled prepay pumps so that motorists can have the option of filling up or pumping a predetermined amount of gas without leaving the forecourt.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7fwek8pwpu...Fuel.jpg?raw=1


1. Insert your card and enter your PIN
2. Pump your gas
3. Remove your card and drive away
It's like this in 48 of the 50 states. Only Oregon and New Jersey are the outliers.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:52 PM   #37
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Only in 'merica!

Meanwhile, here in the land of commonsense, gas stations are installing credit/debit card enabled prepay pumps so that motorists can have the option of filling up or pumping a predetermined amount of gas without leaving the forecourt.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7fwek8pwpu...Fuel.jpg?raw=1


1. Insert your card and enter your PIN
2. Pump your gas
3. Remove your card and drive away
Yeah, ran into one of those in Iceland. I never use a pin number with my credit card, you don't need to here in the US. A pin number was required, I didn't have one and there was no one around, card wouldn't work, couldn't get gas. Fortunately we found another station.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:04 PM   #38
TheGoldcountry
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Only in 'merica!

Meanwhile, here in the land of commonsense, gas stations are installing credit/debit card enabled prepay pumps so that motorists can have the option of filling up or pumping a predetermined amount of gas without leaving the forecourt.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7fwek8pwpu...Fuel.jpg?raw=1


1. Insert your card and enter your PIN
2. Pump your gas
3. Remove your card and drive away
Exactly the same as here in California.

Please don't make statements about "merica" when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:04 PM   #39
quadraginta
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yeah, ran into one of those in Iceland. I never use a pin number with my credit card, you don't need to here in the US. A pin number was required, I didn't have one and there was no one around, card wouldn't work, couldn't get gas. Fortunately we found another station.

Most of the ones I've run into only ask for a PIN if you are using a debit card. (Or using your credit card as a debit card for those places that don't take credit cards but do take debit cards. Some pumps will let you choose to use your credit card as either one.) You might well have a PIN for your credit card and not know it. They have taken to assigning PINs when the cards are issued instead of letting you choose one on your own, and the negligible paperwork enclosed with the card when you get it in the mail isn't always real clear about that.

When the card is used as a regular credit card the gas pumps around here ask for your ZIP code as an ID confirmation.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 1st January 2018 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 1st January 2018, 10:08 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Most of the ones I've run into only ask for a PIN if you are using a debit card (or using your credit card as a debit card for those places that don't take credit cards but do take debit cards). You might well have a PIN for your credit card and not know it. They have taken to assigning PINs when the cards are issued, and the negligible paperwork enclosed with the card when you get it in the mail isn't always real clear about it.

When the card is used as a regular credit card the gas pumps around here ask for your ZIP code as an ID confirmation.
It wasn't a debit card, not even my bank account credit/debit card.

I have gotten said pin numbers with a couple (but not all) of my credit cards. I just never use them here. I don't have those pins memorized because you don't need them here.

Zip code here, yes, but in Iceland they wanted the pin number.
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