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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:24 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Duffy Moon View Post
Oh right, there might be two types then.
Pretty sure I've seen (in film and TV) American pumps where the driver sticks the nozzle into the car, pulls the trigger and is able to walk away whilst it fills up.

I'm happy be corrected by any USAian posters if that's not the case.


Pump nozzles used to have a flange on them you could flip down to keep the trigger depressed. It was removed for the safety reasons mentioned. Some people would then stick their gas cap in the handle to hold the trigger. Not advisable for the same safety reasons the hold down was eliminated.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:28 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
Interesting. Might it be that the handicapped have a more difficult time in getting drivers' licenses there?
Notwithstanding the fact that it seems harder to get a driving licence in the UK than elsewhere, persons with a certain level of disability can drive at a younger age (16 rather than 17), and there is also government funding to enable them to lease or buy suitably adapted vehicles. They - or their carers - also get disabled parking permits which give them greater flexibility and/or free parking where there would otherwise be restrictions.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:35 AM   #83
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A few notes:
I suspect if they make it legal to have self service station, there will be a rather quick transition from all half service to almost all self service. I've never actually been to a full service station in Oregon. All you get is a person who takes your money and starts the pumps. We live in a time when grocery stores and fast food chains are switching over to self service models and you can't really find anything but self service stations in most of the rest of the country. Hard to imagine if stations are given the choice they'll stick with semi-service stations.

Most US states have pumps with the little clip that holds the switch on to keep pumping while you just stand there watching. CA change their regulations to require a different kind of clip, likely due to lobbying by some company or other but even there most stations have changed to the new style clip. I have no idea where people live that they do not have this feature at most stations.

Regarding the ADA, I used to work at a gas station where we locked the doors at night and did business through the window, I was not allowed to assisted customers at the pumps. This was long after the ADA was passed so I guess under some circumstances, disabled folks are screwed?

Once got into a conversation with a coworker from Oregon who actually thought the law was a good idea, it kept the unemployable employed! I couldn't believe anyone actually thought it was a good idea. Who knew.

Last edited by ahhell; 2nd January 2018 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:50 AM   #84
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In the UK the clerks can barely break off their personal conversations long enough to ring up your transaction. If you suggested they actually attend to a customer by doing more than muttering, "Put ya card in," they would probably resign.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:51 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I have no idea where people live that they do not have this feature at most stations.
New York, no stations have it for long enough that I can't remember when it was discontinued.


In CA looks like it was around 2010.

http://abc7news.com/archive/7725164/

In MA about 2011

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/12/0...p-ban-in-mass/
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:55 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It wasn't a debit card, not even my bank account credit/debit card.

I have gotten said pin numbers with a couple (but not all) of my credit cards. I just never use them here. I don't have those pins memorized because you don't need them here.

Zip code here, yes, but in Iceland they wanted the pin number.
You won't get far in Europe without a PIN for a credit or debit card. It's probably a good 10 years since I had to sign using one of the old manual receipt things, as everywhere is chip and PIN - and increasingly contactless - these days. Even the plumber who came to replace a wash basin tap today had a mobile payment terminal.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:57 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
We can put in the $$ amount. With a bit of math and a calculator you could use that to determine the litres.
Lame old joke:

Person 1: What do you think of the latest hike in gas prices?
Person 2: That doesn't affect me. I always pump $10 worth of gas.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:57 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
I doubt that self-serve will lower the price of gas in Oregon.

As quickie-marts with self-serve gas pumps became ubiquitous and the gas was priced as a come-on to get people to buy the ridiculously overpriced impulse buying stuff in the stores the full-service places were gradually forced to reduce their prices at least a little bit just to stay in business.

Ultimately the only places left with full service pumps (and they generally had pumps labelled both full and self-serve, priced differently accordingly) were the ones with service bays and mechanics that also did repair/service/maintenance on cars. This gave them something to charge a bit more for to defray the cost of cheaper gas.

Even those are fewer and farther between now that large business chains are doing the same work for less. The small, full-service gas station with car repair is a vanishing sign of older times.

I expect you will see the same process play out in Oregon.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 07:59 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Pump nozzles used to have a flange on them you could flip down to keep the trigger depressed. It was removed for the safety reasons mentioned. Some people would then stick their gas cap in the handle to hold the trigger. Not advisable for the same safety reasons the hold down was eliminated.

Most if not all of the pumps around here still have those. There was a period some years ago when some stations were removing them, but they seem to have quit doing that.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:00 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
One thing I'd wish our white-heat of technology petrol stations would adopt is the USA ability to preset how much fuel will be dispensed!
I thought some did have that, but you'd lose the fun of Petrol Pump Roulette in trying to get the exact quantity/cost by hand!
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:03 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Sounds like the perfect recipe for driving off with the handle still in the car if you ask me. In my time as an attendant, the people I had do that were all ones that came in and did stuff while waiting for the tank to fill, and then paid for it without returning to the car to remove the handle. After 2 that I failed to stop and 1 that I managed to get their attention before they did any damage, I started to remind people that did that to remove the handle before getting into their car, and always watched to make sure that they did.

All (Well, nearly all. There may be a few hold-overs from earlier times.) the pumps around here let you fill up without having to hold the trigger down. Drive-offs with the hose still in the car don't seem to be a problem.

I wonder what is different about where you are.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:07 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
<snip>

Once got into a conversation with a coworker from Oregon who actually thought the law was a good idea, it kept the unemployable employed! I couldn't believe anyone actually thought it was a good idea. Who knew.

Because all gas pump attendants are exactly like Goober Pyle.

You'd never see anyone working at them as entry-level or after-school jobs.

Obviously.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:09 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
All (Well, nearly all. There may be a few hold-overs from earlier times.) the pumps around here let you fill up without having to hold the trigger down. Drive-offs with the hose still in the car don't seem to be a problem.

I wonder what is different about where you are.
The articles I linked before note spillage (the auto cut off when full doesn't always work) and static charge build up from the person getting back in their car and out again then discharging to the nozzle when grabbed.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:10 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
In the UK the clerks can barely break off their personal conversations long enough to ring up your transaction. If you suggested they actually attend to a customer by doing more than muttering, "Put ya card in," they would probably resign.
Well, that's what you'll get if you shop a Primark!
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:12 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Well, that's what you'll get if you shop a Primark!
Does Primark sell petrol? Aside my my local butcher's, and the corner shop for emergencies, I've never shopped at a physical store for over ten years. Unfortunately one can't order petrol online so I'm forced to interact, if that's not too strong a word, with the aforementioned clerks.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:14 AM   #96
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I don't know how safe auto-pumping is, but setting it to auto-pump has never, in my experience, caused my tank to overflow. If the tank is getting full, the pumps have some sort of sensor that detects this and turns it off. I think what gets people in trouble is that the auto-pump "clicks" off, and the customer, wanting to "top off", keeps pressing the trigger getting small bursts of gasoline as the pump keeps stopping itself. That could certainly lead to overfilling the tank.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:17 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Fizil View Post
I don't know how safe auto-pumping is, but setting it to auto-pump has never, in my experience, caused my tank to overflow. If the tank is getting full, the pumps have some sort of sensor that detects this and turns it off. I think what gets people in trouble is that the auto-pump "clicks" off, and the customer, wanting to "top off", keeps pressing the trigger getting small bursts of gasoline as the pump keeps stopping itself. That could certainly lead to overfilling the tank.

Even while standing there without the auto fill I've had an overflow twice at the same station. I don't go there anymore. After the fact then noticing the absorbent material on the ground it looks like I wasn't the only one.

ETA:

Also there is generally, on modern cars, a carbon filter to trap hydrocarbon gasses from the tank, overfilling can saturate the filter with gasoline. A friend actually had his filter catch fire back in the mid 80's, I suspect he was habitually over filling. I had a similar car I was junking and let him salvage a replacement from that.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:25 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Even while standing there without the auto fill I've had an overflow twice at the same station. I don't go there anymore. After the fact then noticing the absorbent material on the ground it looks like I wasn't the only one.
That is weird. Even when I'm pumping manually the stupid sensors tend to force the pump off when I'm not even close to full at lots of stations near me. This is the most annoying part of these overflow sensors frankly, and the main reason I manually pump most of the time. I have a 12 gallon gas tank, and regularly going from near empty (where the car has detected I have less than 1 gallon of gas left), I have to keep overriding the overflow shutoff while pumping like 5 gallons of gasoline.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:28 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Fizil View Post
I don't know how safe auto-pumping is, but setting it to auto-pump has never, in my experience, caused my tank to overflow. If the tank is getting full, the pumps have some sort of sensor that detects this and turns it off.
For reference on how a gas pump nozzle works:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:29 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Fizil View Post
That is weird. Even when I'm pumping manually the stupid sensors tend to force the pump off when I'm not even close to full at lots of stations near me.
IIRC, that could be indicative of a problem with your fuel tank. It might not be venting properly.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:30 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Does Primark sell petrol?
No, that was what we call a "joke." Some retailers do seem to habitually hire terrible staff, but most don't.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:35 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No, that was what we call a "joke." Some retailers do seem to habitually hire terrible staff, but most don't.
I wasn't joking. I have no idea if Primark sells petrol or not, a lot of big stores do. I don't even know what Primark is, other than a store chain.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:36 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Supermarket Petrol Stations would be an even bigger shock in the USA. The pumps are an't only self service, you pay by card at the pump in advance. No staff at all.
Don't you always have to pay in advance in USA too? I remember doing that in California (I had to guess how much to ask for as I had no idea how much my rented Chrysler Neon's tank would hold "Ermmm...ten..errr...gallons? "). That was a self-pump station.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:40 AM   #104
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In New Jersey many residents claimed that the Full Service requirement led to lower prices (at least they did until Christie had to raise prices .25c a gallon) as the station insurance rates were crucially lower than self-serve locations. Given that in the larger self-serve stations dirve offs with the pump still in the tank are an almost daily event and the anecdotal evidence of my own observations of dirvers happily puffing away on a ciggy butt while pumping gas this may not be too far off the mark.

But honestly I always thought it was more the fact that NJ has a lot of the refineries.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:40 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
This was never going to be an exciting thread, but I'm pretty sure descriptions of how people pay for gasoline is rock bottom.
As (presumably) the only member here who can actually prove their experience at the gas pump, I expect everyone to defer to my expertise. Not all gas station tales are boring.

What's the topic again?
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:45 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
New York, no stations have it for long enough that I can't remember when it was discontinued.


In CA looks like it was around 2010.

http://abc7news.com/archive/7725164/

In MA about 2011

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/12/0...p-ban-in-mass/
California has them again.

Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
You won't get far in Europe without a PIN for a credit or debit card. It's probably a good 10 years since I had to sign using one of the old manual receipt things, as everywhere is chip and PIN - and increasingly contactless - these days. Even the plumber who came to replace a wash basin tap today had a mobile payment terminal.
Something that drives me nuts, the US transitions to chip cards(mostly) but don't require the PIN. So the cards can't be copied anymore but they can still be stolen, so marginally more secure?

Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Because all gas pump attendants are exactly like Goober Pyle.

You'd never see anyone working at them as entry-level or after-school jobs.

Obviously.
Not since I was a kid and never in Oregon. Every attendant I've seen in Oregon has been clearly an adult. Aside from that, from what I gather most economists do not think make work laws are a good idea. They distort the markets in not very productive means. This is literally the equivalent as saying all cars require a a buggy whip to ensure whip makers still have jobs.

Edit to add: Goober worked at a full service station, he was also a mechanic. As far as I could tell, Oregon does not have full services stations. In my experience, the attendants do not perform any function they aren't required to by law.

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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:47 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
All (Well, nearly all. There may be a few hold-overs from earlier times.) the pumps around here let you fill up without having to hold the trigger down. Drive-offs with the hose still in the car don't seem to be a problem.

I wonder what is different about where you are.
A few years ago I was getting gas when I was knocked down, into the open car door, by a heavy blow in the back. A car had driven off with the hose in the tank and the hose stretched out until the end of the nozzle snapped off and it snapped back and hit me.

Yes, the hose had a breakaway/shutoff feature where it attached to the pump. It didn't work. Fortunately the pump had already shut off so automatically so there was no significant spillage.

I didn't know the Oregon change was only for smaller counties. That seems silly.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 08:58 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Fizil View Post
That is weird. Even when I'm pumping manually the stupid sensors tend to force the pump off when I'm not even close to full at lots of stations near me. This is the most annoying part of these overflow sensors frankly, and the main reason I manually pump most of the time. I have a 12 gallon gas tank, and regularly going from near empty (where the car has detected I have less than 1 gallon of gas left), I have to keep overriding the overflow shutoff while pumping like 5 gallons of gasoline.
Only times I've had it happen, even having been a station attendant for some time. Again overriding the cut off is not advisable as gas will now most likely remain in the fill tube. Sure you don't just have a typical 10 gallon or so tank but drive around with a gallon or so in your fill tube? Also your car probably has the carbon filter as part of the EGR or environmental control systems. Overfilling can saturate that filter.

ETA:

Diagrams of Evap systems.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...g&action=click
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:20 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
Originally Posted by Fizil View Post
That is weird. Even when I'm pumping manually the stupid sensors tend to force the pump off when I'm not even close to full at lots of stations near me.
IIRC, that could be indicative of a problem with your fuel tank. It might not be venting properly.
I'd have to agree, probably something you should get checked out Fizil.

ETA: Looks the fuel capacity on my car is similar at 12.39 Gal.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:31 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
I'd have to agree, probably something you should get checked out Fizil.
Nah, this isn't car specific. From what I can tell it has something to do with the angle/how far in you shove the spout. Based on that video I think it must have something to do with a certain angle causing the air backflow hole to be obstructed.

Unless you are suggesting that I just happen to have had half a dozen new and used cars which just happened to have the same serious gas tank problem.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:36 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Fizil View Post
Unless you are suggesting that I just happen to have had half a dozen new and used cars which just happened to have the same serious gas tank problem.
Multiple cars? WTF are you doing when you try to fill your tank?
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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:47 AM   #112
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Having an attendant pump the gas for you was by far the standard method in the USA for many, many decades. Gas stations changed to self-serve to maximize their profits. A few places, such as Oregon, resisted not because their citizens were too squeamish to touch the nozzles but largely as a job retention concept, and as a safety issue. Gasoline is potentially more dangerous than most people think, although much to my surprise fewer people blow themselves up with it than I would expect. Also having the right air pressure, oil level, and a clean windshield do add somewhat to driving safety (especially before cars had tire pressure monitoring and windshield washers). In many places in California one can still get an attendant to pump your cash if you pay a lot more per gallon (or everywhere at not extra cost if you are disabled).

That said self-service is hardly a macho thing- it just is the way things work now-a-days. And I suspect the quotes in the OP were specifically chosen for the purposes of ridiculing people in Oregon as effete. BTW- coastal Oregon may be a liberal cappuccino-sipping bastion, but inland Oregon is pretty conservative, gnarly, and chews their coffee beans along with their salmon jerky!

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Old 2nd January 2018, 09:48 AM   #113
The Man
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Originally Posted by Fizil View Post
Nah, this isn't car specific. From what I can tell it has something to do with the angle/how far in you shove the spout. Based on that video I think it must have something to do with a certain angle causing the air backflow hole to be obstructed.

Unless you are suggesting that I just happen to have had half a dozen new and used cars which just happened to have the same serious gas tank problem.
Nope not suggesting that and am quite willing to accept operator dysfunction as the cause. However, as the old joke goes when the patient says to the doctor "Doc, it hurts when I do this". The doctor replies "Well, don't do that".

Yep, had that happen myself a time or few, shoved in too far and the tip resting against the side wall of the fill tube will restrict the flow of gas away from the tip tripping the cut off prematurely. Seems as though you might have identified the problem but.....what? Would just rather live with it?
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:02 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
When I was in Brazil 10 years ago we couldn't pump our own gas. Is it really that unusual around the world?

I was telling a kid I know that when I started driving you didn't have to pay first. There was no such thing. He was shocked.

That's when the world started falling apart.
You know you're really out in the boonies when you find a gas station that trusts you to pay after you pump your gas.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:06 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
New York, no stations have it for long enough that I can't remember when it was discontinued.


In CA looks like it was around 2010.

http://abc7news.com/archive/7725164/

In MA about 2011

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/12/0...p-ban-in-mass/
While that article is from 2011 the ban is far older.

Gas pump clips now legal, but may take months to appear
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business...zdJ/story.html
Quote:
Although a handful of gas stations have illegally kept the clips on their nozzle handles, they have been banned in Massachusetts since the 1970s
The law was repealed effective Jan. 2015 so many stations have added clips again.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:14 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
You know you're really out in the boonies when you find a gas station that trusts you to pay after you pump your gas.
Or in the UK, Europe, Africa, SE Asia, Australasia.....
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:16 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Nope not suggesting that and am quite willing to accept operator dysfunction as the cause. However, as the old joke goes when the patient says to the doctor "Doc, it hurts when I do this". The doctor replies "Well, don't do that".

Yep, had that happen myself a time or few, shoved in too far and the tip resting against the side wall of the fill tube will restrict the flow of gas away from the tip tripping the cut off prematurely. Seems as though you might have identified the problem but.....what? Would just rather live with it?
It is just one of those things where I don't drive much, so I only need to refill my tank once or twice a month. So even though I've identified what I am doing wrong, every time I get out and pump the gas I just forget, until the pump clicks off and I say to myself "Argh! Don't shove the nozzle in so far, you know this!!!" Then three or so weeks go by, and the same thing will happen.... I simply don't pump gas enough for the habit of shoving the nozzle all the way in to get displaced by negative reinforcement
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:20 AM   #118
Fizil
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
You know you're really out in the boonies when you find a gas station that trusts you to pay after you pump your gas.
I almost mentioned this, but I wasn't sure if this was common in urban areas before the advent of pay-at-the-pump systems, since I started driving in rural Northern Michigan before they were common, and only started driving in urban environments after they had become common. Where I grew up, you pumped the gas, then paid. It was only when I moved to the Metro Detroit area that I discovered every gas station was pre-pay or pay-at-the-pump.
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:25 AM   #119
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it's cold here.
and it rains here.

pump my own gas???

NO! You can't make me! <stomps foot>
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Old 2nd January 2018, 10:28 AM   #120
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I once observed a couple of very young ladies on a saturday night, dressed to kill and with full war paint, trying to gas up daddy's Mercedes. Eventually they turned to me for help. Problem: they did not know how to open the lid with the key! Priceless
On some Vauxhall/Opels you need to unlock twice on the keyfob to open the fuel cover. I had to show a youngster at the pump next to me once. I would have felt smugger about it if someone hadn't had to show me a week before when I picked mine up! (To be fair the last car I had owned was ten years before and only got remote locking when I had an after market alarm fitted).
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