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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:35 AM   #201
theprestige
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by this, could you expand? Seems specific enough to cast doubt upon my use of the term without actually saying anything productive at all.




Not really, I've met some extremely competent 12 year olds. I've also met plenty of grown adults who think that low paying jobs they've never done are uniformly easy and stress free.
Who said anything about uniformly easy and stress free? How many grown adults have you met who have ever said they think such jobs are uniformly easy and stress free?

Forget about whether it's relevant (something you seem to have given up on). Why is it taking you so long to develop an actual discussable point? I think that the "Socratic" approach of asking a single, open-ended question may not be helping you here. If you have an actual response to an idea posted here, please just post your response already, in its final form, so we can add it to the discussion. Stop beating around the bush.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:48 AM   #202
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Mmm, fun thread. Where I am, you will be hard put to find a gas station where they will fill your car. .. Actually I'm not sure any even exist anymore. The majority of them are entirely unstaffed.

It seems we all manage, although I admit I don't know what disabled people do. I assume that they have others help them. After all, unless you really drive a LOT, a modern car doesn't need refueling that often.

Hans

ETA: Just investigated. A number of filling stations have a shop or kiosk, selling magazines, candy, junk-food, etc . In those, you can get the staff to operate the pump for you.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:50 AM   #203
Klimax
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Here they bring a card machine to the table
Because in Super Advanced States of America they use super technology of magstripes, not one of those outdated ideas like secure Pin and Chip. Customer doesn't need to do anything unlike poor people here in Europe...

===

Anyway, I don't even remember when was last time I saw full-service gas/petrol station. (Maybe late 90s) All of them have one cashier inside and that's it. Not: Pumps themselves DO NOT have card readers! One has to go inside to pay.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 09:51 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Who said anything about uniformly easy and stress free? How many grown adults have you met who have ever said they think such jobs are uniformly easy and stress free?
I think, if you go back over the thread, you'll see how it develops.

You seem to be in a terrible rush to disagree with me, but I'm really not sure about what. I've made my point fairly clearly in post 195. I'm really not sure what further explanation I could give you.


Quote:
Forget about whether it's relevant (something you seem to have given up on). Why is it taking you so long to develop an actual discussable point?
Crikey. No-one's forcing you to participate. If you don't get my point and you don't think there's anything discusable here, then you really don't need to be involved in the dialogue.

Really, I'm not sure what you want from me here. Are you sure you didn't answer a question not directed at oyu just so you could disagree with me on principle?


Quote:
I think that the "Socratic" approach of asking a single, open-ended question may not be helping you here. If you have an actual response to an idea posted here, please just post your response already, in its final form, so we can add it to the discussion. Stop beating around the bush.
I shall present my points how I want, thank you very much. You can choose to respond or not, but you doin't get to dictate how I write.

You can, however, read the entirety of my point in post 195, as I said.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:21 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And modern tech isn't even needed to confuse the untutored.

We have a '90 Miata. Everything was designed to be streamlined and nearly featureless on the outside (think recessed, roll-up headlights). The gas fill cover has no lock on the outside of the car. The release for the gas fill cover is a tiny black lever cleverly placed on the inside rear of the equally small, equally black center console storage box.

Since the console box itself is so small, putting nearly anything in it (like a pair of sunglasses, or maybe a pack of cigarettes, you get the idea) can easily obscure the lever.

If you don't know what you are looking for you could spend hours searching the car dash and interior trying to find some way to open the damned gas cover.
I had the same model, probably. Secondhand, so bought without the manual. I once spent 2 hours trying to figure out why the cluster lights went out (fuse? bulb?) - turns out that mystery toothpick sticking out of the glass was a potentiometer. Just twist it to brighten/dim the cluster lights, and my niece had twisted it all the way down.

Two *********** hours. I bought a Hanes that afternoon.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:27 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Like at a restaurant?
At the restaurants I go to most of the time, they give you a check that you take to the counter, and you pay your bill and leave.

Or they have a little box at the table where you can swipe your card.

There are one or two that still take your card from you.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:30 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I had the same model, probably. Secondhand, so bought without the manual. I once spent 2 hours trying to figure out why the cluster lights went out (fuse? bulb?) - turns out that mystery toothpick sticking out of the glass was a potentiometer. Just twist it to brighten/dim the cluster lights, and my niece had twisted it all the way down.

Two *********** hours. I bought a Hanes that afternoon.
Sometimes that control will click when you turn it all the way down, which disables the interior lighting...
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:43 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Everything you do undermines jobs, or did at some point. Why do you go to the supermarket at all, instead of hiring a grocery delivery service?

Why do you drive your own car, or take public transportation, instead of calling a taxi or a rideshare?

Why do you travel on commercial airlines, instead of chartering a private flight?

These are serious questions. I believe they have serious and thought-provoking answers. We'll find out if I'm right when you answer them.


I bet you pump your own gas though, instead of paying extra for "full service."

And of course you're not "unpaid" at all in these scenarios. You're getting compensated in goods and services. The specifics of the business arrangement naturally require some division of labor between you and the seller, and that dividing line is going to shift around a bit over time. It's not a nefarious plot to cheat you out of your hard-earned money. It's a value proposition the seller hopes will satisfy your requirements for the transaction.


I bet as soon as self-scanning solutions become just a little bit easer and more reliable to use, your other rationales will vanish (just like they're already missing from the vast majority of other efficiencies you take for granted in your business transactions), and you'll think no more of it than of pumping your own gas--undermining jobs be damned.
You provided the answer to your questions to me in your own post. The decisions I make reflect my own evaluation of the specifics of the business arrangement and the division of labor between me and the seller. In terms of off-loading the work performed by the checker on to me- I find that an unacceptable re-locating of the dividing line. My view is not purely mathematical but very human, indeed emotional in its origins:

(1) To use the automated checkouts in my supermarket I would need to walk past the human checkers. People who I know and to whom I've talked countless times. I would be making a decision that undercuts their job security in their very presence, in essence telling them that "tough luck, you've been displaced by automation and frankly I don't care. Go find something else to earn a living- if you can."

(2) Making the decision to use an automated checker represents a change from a pre-existing standard. Most people never chartered their own airline flights. Most people never used taxis exclusively (perhaps with the exception of the very wealthy in NYC). Most people never used home delivery of groceries (at least not in my lifetime). Since I began driving most service stations had no full service. Therefore these aspects never represented a decision to change from a routine behavior of mine that provided a job to individuals I knew and liked to one that eliminated their jobs.

So yes, it is easy to list all the ways one could provide additional employment to more individuals. Hell, I could just stand on a street corner and hand out $100 bills (until I ran out or my wife killed me) but I am focusing on decisions that cause the loss of jobs that already exist and that impact me in a very personal way. It is emotional and perhaps even illogical, but I never said otherwise.

As to your statement "And of course you're not "unpaid" at all in these scenarios. You're getting compensated in goods and services." Exactly how am I being compensated for the effort and time I expend at self-check stands compared to what I am currently offered by human checkers? Efficiency? Once one reaches the checkout stand itself, an experienced human checker is much more efficient than the typical shopper. Plus the human checkers I deal with often provide useful information ("Oh, these are on special- two for the price of one; do you want to go get another one?" "If you forgot something I'll just hold your purchases here until you can come back and complete your checkout." "Oh, this milk container is leaking- I get Sam to get you another one.").

One might argue that the self-check stands save money that will be reflected in cheaper food prices. Maybe. Or just in greater profits for the store owners. I know which I suspect will be true.

One might argue that the self-check stands frequently have less of a wait than the human checker lines. When so, that is both artificial and temporary. Artificial because it reflects the choice of the store owner as to how many checkout stands should be "manned" for a given number of customers and how long a wait is "acceptable." They are knowing pushing people to the self-check aisle. And temporary because as self-check stands eliminate human checkers the wait at the self-check will inevitably increase. And because the typical shopper will take a lot longer to successfully navigate the self-check compared to the human check stand, the waits will actually become longer. I don't see this changing with experience either- someone who self-checks one a week will never be as fast as someone who checks out 10 to 20 customers and hour day after day.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:44 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Have you ever done any of these jobs?
Yes, all three listed, and more like it... landscaping, for example. I have a very long CV, and cut 95% of my work history, but it's all still there in the rough version, mostly for posterity I guess.

And this may relate to the thread subject. My parents didn't give me an allowance... they wanted me to work when I was a kid. Landscaping, odd jobs like moving dirt, bagging mushroom manure, babysitting, pool cleaning, newspaper delivery, car washing, dog washing... later when I was in highschool I worked in a marina (where I gas jockeyed at the fuel float, did maintenance/repairs, and crewed boats to/from other marinas), then in restaurants, starting as a dishpig, then busboy, food carrier, did some kitchen line cooking, but found I was better on the floor, so ultimately worked my way up to head waiter in a silver service restaurant (Joe Fortes, which is still around).

One of the long term benefits of a diverse work history is that I'm not intimidated by the prospect of learning new skills, and at the same time, I have a good perspective about being incompetent at them until I get more experience at it. Pumping gas into an ordinary car is not an advanced skill.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:48 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Yes, all three listed, and more like it... landscaping, for example. I have a very long CV, and cut 95% of my work history, but it's all still there in the rough version, mostly for posterity I guess.

And this may relate to the thread subject. My parents didn't give me an allowance... they wanted me to work when I was a kid. Landscaping, odd jobs like moving dirt, bagging mushroom manure, babysitting, pool cleaning, newspaper delivery, car washing, dog washing... later when I was in highschool I worked in a marina (where I gas jockeyed at the fuel float, did maintenance/repairs, and crewed boats to/from other marinas), then in restaurants, starting as a dishpig, then busboy, food carrier, did some kitchen line cooking, but found I was better on the floor, so ultimately worked my way up to head waiter in a silver service restaurant (Joe Fortes, which is still around).
My thanks for your response.

Quote:
One of the long term benefits of a diverse work history is that I'm not intimidated by the prospect of learning new skills, and at the same time, I have a good perspective about being incompetent at them until I get more experience at it. Pumping gas into an ordinary car is not an advanced skill.
The putting the nozzle in the hole and pulling the trigger, no. Dealing with the general public and the tendency of some people to bring their whole slew of personal problems into every interaction of their day can be bloody tricky.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:53 AM   #211
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Quite a few cars no longer have gas caps, so you have nothing to wedge in the pump handle.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:53 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by skbuncks View Post
Some are even contactless too.
Pretty much every fleet station I've used was unmanned, cashless, and tap to pay (often with dedicated account cards).

(we call them "cardlocks")
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Old 3rd January 2018, 10:57 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I had the same model, probably. Secondhand, so bought without the manual. I once spent 2 hours trying to figure out why the cluster lights went out (fuse? bulb?) - turns out that mystery toothpick sticking out of the glass was a potentiometer. Just twist it to brighten/dim the cluster lights, and my niece had twisted it all the way down.

Two *********** hours. I bought a Hanes that afternoon.
What drives (no pun initially intended but I will gleefully use it now that I realize it) me crazy is how all the cars now use symbols instead of words on the control buttons and levers. I spent two weeks trying to puzzle out a button in my car labeled with a wavy line over a crescent (or some such). I know there are official glossaries, but it is not so easy to start with an unknown symbol and look up its meaning.

More and more I find the same on GUIs on computers- symbols rather than words. One example: file saving/opening often uses a symbol of a floppy disk, of all things! Just one more example: Microsoft Powerpoint uses an enormous amount of screen real-estate to provide bizarre and puzzling symbols just to indicate the different available forms of animation. If you want an explanation in words you have to hover your cursor over each symbol.

Although I understand the concept of symbols making the GUI more international, this appears to me to forget something essential- IT IS A COMPUTER, damn it! The OS always asks at setup "What language do you wish to use?" Once one enters that, every single feature in every single program should be labeled IN THAT LANGUAGE! Easy.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:00 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Not really, I've met some extremely competent 12 year olds. I've also met plenty of grown adults who think that low paying jobs they've never done are uniformly easy and stress free.
Ah, I think this is why you were asking if I had actually done any of those jobs. Bussing tables, for example, I would not describe as stress free. It was actually very stressful, although partly because I was young, which makes the customers more confident about being abusive.

But training-wise, it wasn't complicated, is the thing.

Heck, forget 12 year olds. My dad smoked, so I was the one filling the tank back then. (he wanted to stand waaaaaay back from the pumps.) I could have been as young as six. So when an adult says this is too dangerous or complicated, I feel they have no perspective or are shockingly incompetent.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:04 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Ah, I think this is why you were asking if I had actually done any of those jobs. Bussing tables, for example, I would not describe as stress free. It was actually very stressful, although partly because I was young, which makes the customers more confident about being abusive.
Exactly that. My apologies. I get a little riled at those who, never having done a job, proclaim that job x is incredibly simple. I stress that it wasn't intended to be an accusation.


Quote:
But training-wise, it wasn't complicated, is the thing.

Heck, forget 12 year olds. My dad smoked, so I was the one filling the tank back then. (he wanted to stand waaaaaay back from the pumps.) I could have been as young as six. So when an adult says this is too dangerous or complicated, I feel they have no perspective or are shockingly incompetent.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 11:21 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Weird idea. I understand that tire technology has vastly improved over the years so maybe they once leaked many times faster than they do now, but there's no way those other things would need to be done so amazingly often. It sounds like they were just trying to give the impression of providing a service to people who didn't realize how pointless it was without actually needing to do any serving.
I think a big reason for the decline in spot checks was the change in the business model that diversified 'service stations' from standalone 'gas stations'. "You need an oil change," used to be a salespitch, but it could only be monetized at a location with an empty service bay.

With real estate prices climbing, those idle service bays became too expensive to maintain just in case a random car came in for gas and was identified as needing a tuneup. They also started getting intense competition from tuneup specialists...

"You need a lube job," OK, customer says thanks and makes an appointment at Mr. Lube.
"You need a new muffler," OK, customer says thanks and makes an appointment at Speedy Muffler.
Labour cost spent, but no sale, the business model evaporated.



Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
It reminds me of that thing I've heard of but never seen in real life about poor/unemployed/homeless people hanging out at major intersections to suddenly appear in front of stopped cars and wipe their windshields and then ask for payment for doing so.
Ugh. These are very, very real. Possibly only a feature of larger cities. I commute by bus mostly, but when I occasionally rent a car2go for food days, I can confirm that my route goes through three of these intersections. Squeegie kids, and also panhandlers who walk among the cars, knocking on the glass. Vancouverites have perfected the art of staring blankly at their dashboard during red lights.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:27 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Ugh. These are very, very real. Possibly only a feature of larger cities.
In my neighborhood, after a snow storm we get people who will come by and shovel your sidewalk without asking and then demand payment, regardless of how much or little snow there was. In the summer, they're known to go around and paint your house number on the curb and then demand payment for doing so.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:43 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
What drives (no pun initially intended but I will gleefully use it now that I realize it) me crazy is how all the cars now use symbols instead of words on the control buttons and levers. I spent two weeks trying to puzzle out a button in my car labeled with a wavy line over a crescent (or some such). I know there are official glossaries, but it is not so easy to start with an unknown symbol and look up its meaning.

More and more I find the same on GUIs on computers- symbols rather than words. One example: file saving/opening often uses a symbol of a floppy disk, of all things! Just one more example: Microsoft Powerpoint uses an enormous amount of screen real-estate to provide bizarre and puzzling symbols just to indicate the different available forms of animation. If you want an explanation in words you have to hover your cursor over each symbol.

Although I understand the concept of symbols making the GUI more international, this appears to me to forget something essential- IT IS A COMPUTER, damn it! The OS always asks at setup "What language do you wish to use?" Once one enters that, every single feature in every single program should be labeled IN THAT LANGUAGE! Easy.
During my first experience with a Mac about 30 years ago, I suddenly realized that sometimes a word is worth a thousand pictures.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 12:59 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Because in Super Advanced States of America they use super technology of magstripes, not one of those outdated ideas like secure Pin and Chip. Customer doesn't need to do anything unlike poor people here in Europe...

===

Anyway, I don't even remember when was last time I saw full-service gas/petrol station. (Maybe late 90s) All of them have one cashier inside and that's it. Not: Pumps themselves DO NOT have card readers! One has to go inside to pay.
Oh? Here virtually all pumps have card readers. ... Well not the pumps as such, there is a terminal for a group of pumps (for different fuels).

Hans
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:00 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
... And?
You put your card in the slot, and select, the account preferred, the tip amount or percent, enter your pin, wait 8 seconds and put you card back in your pocket.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:03 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by skbuncks View Post
It's happened to me, once, in Bradford, UK. Some young Polack girl jumped out with a bucket and squidgy. I was so shocked I let her clean my windscreen. Cost me a quid.
Is that necessary?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:03 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In my neighborhood, after a snow storm we get people who will come by and shovel your sidewalk without asking and then demand payment, regardless of how much or little snow there was. In the summer, they're known to go around and paint your house number on the curb and then demand payment for doing so.

That's a new one on me.

They'd have to paint it on the grass around here, or the street asphalt. Aside from downtown, sidewalks and curbs are few and far between in the residential areas.

I'd never pay someone for that sort of unsolicited effort. It is nothing but a (very) thinly disguised form of intimidation.

And it would be rude to assume that their goal was to intimidate. I'd have to assume that they did it out of the kindness of their hearts as good Samaritans and would be insulted by the idea of a reward.

I wouldn't want to insult them.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:05 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Oh? Here virtually all pumps have card readers. ... Well not the pumps as such, there is a terminal for a group of pumps (for different fuels).

Hans

Around here even the little tire air kiosks that you used to have to shove quarters in are starting to sprout card readers.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:06 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Is that necessary?

Depends on how dirty his windshield was.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:07 PM   #225
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The last time I saw a full service station outside the trip to New Jersey...I can't remember.

Long time ago.

It's also been a very long time since I have seen a gas pump without it's own card reader.

I did go with a friend in Virginia a few years ago to a station/garage that had the very old gas pumps with the rolling numbers, where you have to reset the pump first with the handle on the side, and the numbers all rotate back around to zero, then you can pump your gas.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:07 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In my neighborhood, after a snow storm we get people who will come by and shovel your sidewalk without asking and then demand payment, regardless of how much or little snow there was. In the summer, they're known to go around and paint your house number on the curb and then demand payment for doing so.
No curbs on my street .. and I'm 100% sure it's against the law here to paint anything on the curbs.

Also I have a sign on my door that indicates not to knock on the door for any reason ... (people I know will always text message me before coming over) ... if for some reason someone DOES knock ... nobody will answer the door anyway.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:15 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Around here even the little tire air kiosks that you used to have to shove quarters in are starting to sprout card readers.
Oh? Ours are all free.

Hans
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:18 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
In my neighborhood, after a snow storm we get people who will come by and shovel your sidewalk without asking and then demand payment, regardless of how much or little snow there was. In the summer, they're known to go around and paint your house number on the curb and then demand payment for doing so.
And you pay them? Why??

Hans
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:24 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
And you pay them? Why??

Hans
I never would, most people don't. But there are some people who are easily intimidated and will just pay rather than risk a confrontation.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:33 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Oh? Ours are all free.

Hans
Well, they are paid for somehow.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 01:34 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Faydra View Post
by the way, NOBODY I know is freaking out.

Not even a little bit.
My husband said the talk in his office this morning was more about how the legislature has cast aside 4 different ballots by the population of Oregon voting NO on self-serve gas. Everyone voting NO in the past for their own reasons, but this decision isn't very popular.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:12 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
During my first experience with a Mac about 30 years ago, I suddenly realized that sometimes a word is worth a thousand pictures.
That's why on windows beside pictograms there were always words. Don't know about other systems...

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Oh? Here virtually all pumps have card readers. ... Well not the pumps as such, there is a terminal for a group of pumps (for different fuels).

Hans
I suspect fees for each terminal are quite high. (A lot of shops don't take cards and few even stopped accepting them due to them) And station can't have reduction in profits. (Also it would require two terminals - one for regular cards and one special business cards)
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:22 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Around here even the little tire air kiosks that you used to have to shove quarters in are starting to sprout card readers.
Last time I used the one near me it was 20p, now it's owned and managed by a different company. I was in a hurry and feeling lazy the other day, knew my tires were low and needed petrol anyway so I was going to use it. £1.50!

At that point I went home and pulled out my compressor.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:33 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Last time I used the one near me it was 20p, now it's owned and managed by a different company. I was in a hurry and feeling lazy the other day, knew my tires were low and needed petrol anyway so I was going to use it. £1.50!

At that point I went home and pulled out my compressor.
That was true in California but the State now requires that if you purchase gas they must provide you with air for free. Considered a safety and fuel economy issue.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:49 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Well, they are paid for somehow.
Well, of course. Except you can go into a filling station, top up your tires, and leave. But, sure ... no free lunch. BTW, where I live, even the vacuum cleaner is free (not directly payed). I think that the cost of charging for these small services would be higher than the income.

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Old 3rd January 2018, 02:52 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
That's why on windows beside pictograms there were always words. Don't know about other systems...



I suspect fees for each terminal are quite high. (A lot of shops don't take cards and few even stopped accepting them due to them) And station can't have reduction in profits. (Also it would require two terminals - one for regular cards and one special business cards)
MMm, the cost of a terminal is, of course, considerable. Here, we have a common national charge card (practically everybody has one) and they are not allowed to charge for its use. International credit cards are the same terminal, but they charge you (a little) for using them.

Hans
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:16 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Well, of course. Except you can go into a filling station, top up your tires, and leave. But, sure ... no free lunch. BTW, where I live, even the vacuum cleaner is free (not directly payed). I think that the cost of charging for these small services would be higher than the income.
Yep. I did an analysis once for the air machine in a PetroCan that my friend's mom managed.

The air machine was probably 40 years old, so essentially zero overhead for that.

The calculation was to compare the cost of installing a meter versus the potential revenue. I estimated that the meter would pay for itself in 10 years, assuming it was never damaged by a theft attempt. She decided against installing.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:17 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Well, of course. Except you can go into a filling station, top up your tires, and leave. But, sure ... no free lunch. BTW, where I live, even the vacuum cleaner is free (not directly payed). I think that the cost of charging for these small services would be higher than the income.

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The Shell gas stations in the Netherlands charge 50 cents for the use of the toilet, but then the toilet gives a ticket. If you afterwards go to the cash register to pay for your gas, or for a candy bar, you can hand in the ticket and get the 50 cents back.
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:22 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Yep. I did an analysis once for the air machine in a PetroCan that my friend's mom managed.

The air machine was probably 40 years old, so essentially zero overhead for that.

The calculation was to compare the cost of installing a meter versus the potential revenue. I estimated that the meter would pay for itself in 10 years, assuming it was never damaged by a theft attempt. She decided against installing.
Right. Also, of course, there is the competition side: If most stations provide free air, people will go to them when they need air, and if they also need fuel, they will then buy it there. You generally can't charge for something others provide for free.

Hans
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Old 3rd January 2018, 03:32 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Right. Also, of course, there is the competition side: If most stations provide free air, people will go to them when they need air, and if they also need fuel, they will then buy it there. You generally can't charge for something others provide for free.

Hans
Fuel prices at gas stations near where I live vary by up to 10 cents/liter. The 50 cents most of them charge for the air for tyres evaporates compared to that.
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