ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 

Notices


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Emmanuel Macron , France issues , France politics , media issues

Reply
Old 3rd January 2018, 12:11 PM   #1
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,185
Macron proposes new law against fake news

French President Emmanuel Macron will propose new rules cracking down on fake news during elections this year, he said in an annual speech to the press today.

https://www.politico.eu/pro/macron-p...nst-fake-news/




Yummy, truth tribunals
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd January 2018, 01:44 PM   #2
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,252
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
French President Emmanuel Macron will propose new rules cracking down on fake news during elections this year, he said in an annual speech to the press today.

https://www.politico.eu/pro/macron-p...nst-fake-news/



Yummy, truth tribunals

Huh, what could go wrong?
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 02:37 AM   #3
JJM 777
Illuminator
 
JJM 777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,054
Philosophically taken, does the concept of "freedom of speech" and "freedom of conscience" exclude the right to lie?
JJM 777 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 09:12 AM   #4
Henri McPhee
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,690
Macron tried to prevent RT from reporting the French elections. RT has useful and pointed criticism, and even elicits the truth. I suppose when the Russians prevent French, or even American journalists, from reporting the Russian elections then that's supposed to be Russian aggression. I used to watch Aljazeera in English, which I admit is controlled by the government of Qatar, until it became unavailable on British Freeview. There were interesting historical documentaries on aljazeera which never get shown on the BBC or ITV or Sky News.
Henri McPhee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 09:44 AM   #5
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 24,967
Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Macron tried to prevent RT from reporting the French elections.
Utter rubbish - as usual. Macron did exclude Sputnik and RT from his own events but he never tried to stop them reporting.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There were interesting historical documentaries on aljazeera which never get shown on the BBC or ITV or Sky News.
...presumably because they don't have the rights to show them. No doubt there's a lot of BBC and ITV output that never sees the light of day on Aljazeera.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 09:47 AM   #6
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 27,799
Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
Philosophically taken, does the concept of "freedom of speech" and "freedom of conscience" exclude the right to lie?
I dunno. What do you think?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 10:15 AM   #7
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,185
Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
Philosophically taken, does the concept of "freedom of speech" and "freedom of conscience" exclude the right to lie?
Lying and deception are biologically beneficial and will never go away
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 10:35 AM   #8
ServiceSoon
Graduate Poster
 
ServiceSoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,326
My gut reaction is that the implementation of these laws designed to fight fake news are causing the form of governance in those societies to more closely align with less democratic societies. Russia is being blamed for the dissemination of fake news and the response is to create rules and laws that more closely resemble the type of governance in Russia.
ServiceSoon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 11:51 AM   #9
Civet
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,598
I'm trying to think of a way to come up with a way to formulate laws against fake news that would be useful (not too easy to circumvent) without infringing on free speech/press (taking into account a dangerous chilling effect). I'm failing to do so.
Civet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 11:53 AM   #10
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 3,251
Next up: thoughtcrime!
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 12:00 PM   #11
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,140
Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I'm trying to think of a way to come up with a way to formulate laws against fake news that would be useful (not too easy to circumvent) without infringing on free speech/press (taking into account a dangerous chilling effect). I'm failing to do so.

I don't think it can be done. I have a solution though.

Massive investment in education that will allow a large enough percentage of the population to accurately assess the source and purpose of news, fake or otherwise. Then the idiots can be drowned out by the majority of the population who are able to discern fake from real.

Of course, this will cost a fortune....


Is fake news an issue in, say, Norway, which seems to value education for all much more highly than, for example, the UK.
__________________
Up the River!
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 12:01 PM   #12
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,959
Originally Posted by JJM 777 View Post
Philosophically taken, does the concept of "freedom of speech" and "freedom of conscience" exclude the right to lie?
Newspapers and television stations are businesses not human beings, in other contexts (such as advertising) we don't give corporations the right to lie.

The devil is in the details, but in theory I'm not sure that I'm against punishing media outlets that knowingly publish outright lies (or disseminate lies without performing basic fact checking).
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 12:15 PM   #13
Civet
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,598
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Newspapers and television stations are businesses not human beings, in other contexts (such as advertising) we don't give corporations the right to lie.

The devil is in the details, but in theory I'm not sure that I'm against punishing media outlets that knowingly publish outright lies (or disseminate lies without performing basic fact checking).
Even that could get messy. A lot of fake news makes the rounds through social media outlets owned by big corporations but with content being passed around by individual users. Do we really want to punish Facebook or Twitter, for example, just because they don't do a good job of proactively stopping users from telling lies? I don't. You also get guys like Alex Jones who blur the lines. Infowars is clearly an established media outlet now, but where precisely do we draw the line between Alex Jones the unusually prolific loudmouth and Alex Jones the businessman? I'm not crazy about the government making those types of distinctions when regulating speech/press issues unless it's absolutely necessary.
Civet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th January 2018, 01:52 PM   #14
ServiceSoon
Graduate Poster
 
ServiceSoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,326
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
...
Massive investment in education that will allow a large enough percentage of the population to accurately assess the source and purpose of news, fake or otherwise. Then the idiots can be drowned out by the majority of the population who are able to discern fake from real.

Of course, this will cost a fortune....
This is already the case in the USA; the majority of the population can discern between fake and real news and make informed decisions on how they want to be governed.
ServiceSoon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th January 2018, 09:09 AM   #15
Henri McPhee
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,690
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Utter rubbish - as usual. Macron did exclude Sputnik and RT from his own events but he never tried to stop them reporting.
It's Macron who is spreading the fake news, not RT. It's true that Russia may prefer Trump over Clinton, and Macron might not be Russia's choice but there is no law against that. This is part of RT's response:

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/386329-fr...-lepen-macron/
Henri McPhee is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:01 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.