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Tags anti-semitism charges , Australia elections , Australia politics , Julian Assange , Malcolm Fraser , wikileaks

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Old 16th January 2018, 10:36 AM   #201
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Quote:
Is there some site that compares statistics between how many drone strikes were done up to this point in the Obama administration compared to how many drone strikes have been done up to this point in the Trump administration? I'd be interested to see that.
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...ects/drone-war
That site does not have any information post January 2017, so it can't be used to count the number of drone strikes authorized by Trump.

(I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here. Even if the site is accurate; given your tendency to quote biased and inaccurate sources I am usually skeptical of the references you give.)
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Old 16th January 2018, 11:30 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
That site does not have any information post January 2017, so it can't be used to count the number of drone strikes authorized by Trump.

Of course it has data for 2017. January 2017 is the last date you can chose in the "from" field, while "now" is the last in the "to" field. Check Afghanistan from January 2016 to now and you'll see the difference (spoiler alert: Yes, there's a huge increase under Trump).

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
(I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here. Even if the site is accurate; given your tendency to quote biased and inaccurate sources I am usually skeptical of the references you give.)

Likely another comprehension problem.

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Old 16th January 2018, 01:15 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Okay, interesting. But it doesn't seem to be breaking it down by time. Between Jan 2009 and now, there were 3,911 drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Afghanistan (though for some reason only statistics from 2015 are available for Afghanistan).

What I'm trying to find out is whether the number of those strikes carried out within the last year is proportional to 1/8 of the strikes carried out within the prior eight years.

Perhaps I'm just using the site wrong.

ETA: I tried to set "From Jan 2017 to Now" but it gave me the same number of strikes as the previous total where I had set "Jan 2009 to Jan 2017".
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Old 16th January 2018, 01:22 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
(spoiler alert: Yes, there's a huge increase under Trump).
Yeah, that was what I was trying to determine.

It was in response to Noztradamus who claimed that under the Trump administration, Assange would get a trial, whereas under a Clinton administration he'd get "a droning", implying that "droning" is more likely under the Democrats. I wanted to establish whether that was actually true, or whether drone strikes have actually increased under Trump, thereby rendering it more likely in this hypothetical that if Assange were to receive "a droning" at all, it would be more likely under a Trump administration than it would be under a Clinton administration.

I provide that information to recap the context for this discussion.
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Old 16th January 2018, 01:36 PM   #205
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It should be noted that the US has never carried out a drone attack in Europe. On record so far, Trump is no more likely to drone Assange than any of his predecessors were.

I mean, maybe if Assange gets invited to a Talibani wedding just over the border into Pakistan...
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Old 16th January 2018, 01:40 PM   #206
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America hasn't been involved in a war in Europe since drones were invented. Of course they've never carried out a drone strike in Europe. They've also never carried one out in Australia.
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Old 16th January 2018, 01:50 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Okay, interesting. But it doesn't seem to be breaking it down by time. Between Jan 2009 and now, there were 3,911 drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Afghanistan (though for some reason only statistics from 2015 are available for Afghanistan).

What I'm trying to find out is whether the number of those strikes carried out within the last year is proportional to 1/8 of the strikes carried out within the prior eight years.

Perhaps I'm just using the site wrong.

ETA: I tried to set "From Jan 2017 to Now" but it gave me the same number of strikes as the previous total where I had set "Jan 2009 to Jan 2017".

I'm unsure where you get the 3,911 from. As a whole, they have 4,705 strikes in the database as it says to the left of the form. If you choose Afghanistan from January 2017 to now, it shows 2,605 strikes. You can hoover your mouse over the data points in the chart to see the individual numbers for the month. The peak is April 2017 with 450 confirmed strikes. For the year from January 2016 to January 2017, the database shows 1,027 confirmed strikes, with a peak of 461 in December, but that is a total outlier as the second highest month was October with 175 strikes. 2015 has only 235 strikes in the database (for Afghanistan, which has obviously been the center of the drone war in recent years).

edit: 3,911 is the total number for Afghanistan since January 2015, if you leave the from and to fields as they are by default.

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Old 16th January 2018, 01:55 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It was in response to Noztradamus who claimed that under the Trump administration, Assange would get a trial, whereas under a Clinton administration he'd get "a droning", implying that "droning" is more likely under the Democrats. I wanted to establish whether that was actually true, or whether drone strikes have actually increased under Trump, thereby rendering it more likely in this hypothetical that if Assange were to receive "a droning" at all, it would be more likely under a Trump administration than it would be under a Clinton administration.

There is no way to determine how many drone strikes would have happened under a Killary regime by now. Just saying.
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Old 17th January 2018, 01:52 AM   #209
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There's a bit of a difference.
Afghanistan was an ongoing thing at the start of Obama's presidency.

Assuming the data on the site CE linked is correct, drone strikes ceased mid 2015.

ETA: OK, so that's an inability on my part in reading that page!


I thought that seemed odd.

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Old 17th January 2018, 02:45 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US has for years given every indication that they don't think Assange is worth the trouble of pursuing.

The idea that Assange is on the run from the US is a myth. The idea of a fair trial in the US is a red herring. The only country with a current interest in detaining him or putting him on trial is Sweden.
I think you are wrong on both counts. One possible charge is out of time by Swedish law, and the other isn't being persued.

Yet it seems the Grand Jury against him is still in place. I can't find anything to contradict this.

Is Assange faced trial in the US it would be a kangaroo court to beat all others.
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Old 17th January 2018, 03:33 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm unsure where you get the 3,911 from. As a whole, they have 4,705 strikes in the database as it says to the left of the form. If you choose Afghanistan from January 2017 to now, it shows 2,605 strikes. You can hoover your mouse over the data points in the chart to see the individual numbers for the month. The peak is April 2017 with 450 confirmed strikes. For the year from January 2016 to January 2017, the database shows 1,027 confirmed strikes, with a peak of 461 in December, but that is a total outlier as the second highest month was October with 175 strikes. 2015 has only 235 strikes in the database (for Afghanistan, which has obviously been the center of the drone war in recent years).

edit: 3,911 is the total number for Afghanistan since January 2015, if you leave the from and to fields as they are by default.
Sure. I was probably using the tool wrong.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
There is no way to determine how many drone strikes would have happened under a Killary regime by now. Just saying.
Absolutely. All we have to go on is the record under the Obama administration, which by your own statement launched fewer drone strikes than the Trump Administration has up to this point.

I'm not sure where you're getting "Killary" from. Ms Clinton, so far as I am aware, has never killed anybody (unlike Ted Cruz, who as we all know is the Zodiac Killer). So far as I can tell, you're using this derogatory epithet under the assumption that she would have killed millions if only she had the chance.

I don't think this assumption is warranted. I don't know why you use this term. It doesn't seem to make sense to me.
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Old 17th January 2018, 03:39 AM   #212
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Why didn't the US extradite him while he was in Sweden or in custody in the UK before he ran in to the embassy? They have shown no interest in him.

If he came out now I the only charges he would face would be for skipping bail in the UK.
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Old 17th January 2018, 03:45 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Sure. I was probably using the tool wrong.

Segnosaur, you, Tolls. At least you're not alone. Frankly it baffles me how anyone can fail to use that simple form properly.

Anyway, back to Mr. Assange's adventures.
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Old 17th January 2018, 03:58 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Segnosaur, you, Tolls. At least you're not alone. Frankly it baffles me how anyone can fail to use that simple form properly.

Anyway, back to Mr. Assange's adventures.
I've worked with computers literally for 25 years. In all that time, I can count the number of times I've had to call the help desk for a password reset on one hand. And yet, we get people calling up several times a week to have their passwords reset.

I could say that it baffles me how anyone can fail to remember a basic network password, but I won't because I recognise that everyone has a different skill set and that things that seem easy to me might not be as simple for other people.

At least I'm sophisticated enough not to passively-aggressively disparage people who can't do something that I find quite straightforward.
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Old 17th January 2018, 04:21 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US has for years given every indication that they don't think Assange is worth the trouble of pursuing.

The idea that Assange is on the run from the US is a myth. The idea of a fair trial in the US is a red herring. The only country with a current interest in detaining him or putting him on trial is Sweden.
Come off it.
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Old 17th January 2018, 04:25 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Segnosaur, you, Tolls. At least you're not alone. Frankly it baffles me how anyone can fail to use that simple form properly.
In my case I wasn't expecting it to default the country selection to a random country rather than "all". So all I did was shift the dates to ones I was interested in.

They clearly hold all the data (since that's what's in the pink box on the left), but for some reason you can't search on it all at once. As someone who actually works in IT and develops apps, this was not something I expected.
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Old 17th January 2018, 12:43 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Come off it.
Come off telling the truth? Why?
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Old 17th January 2018, 04:56 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Come off telling the truth? Why?
The Grand Jury? If it has been discharged, I'd appreciate knowing so, but while it is in place Assange is indeed under threat.
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Old 19th January 2018, 08:01 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The Grand Jury? If it has been discharged, I'd appreciate knowing so, but while it is in place Assange is indeed under threat.
Other than some unverifiable claims, what proof is that that one even existed in the first place?
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Old 19th January 2018, 09:15 PM   #220
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https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobi...leaks.amp.html

The NYT says that evidence against Assange was brought to a Grand Jury by the Justice Department.
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Old 20th January 2018, 03:51 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Come off telling the truth? Why?

The truth is that Assange is in grave peril. Clinton kept moaning about so-called Russian Wikileaks with nothing to back it up. Trump has done nothing to release the innocent Jeffrey MacDonald after the biased American judge and jury in that case. The Press is not much help. Mrs. May is not going to stiffen her back about the matter and she will give way when she should stand firm.

There is background to the matter at this website:

http://theindicter.com/december-2015...-human-rights/

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Old 20th January 2018, 07:08 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobi...leaks.amp.html

The NYT says that evidence against Assange was brought to a Grand Jury by the Justice Department.
Federal grand juries are standing bodies that consider every case that comes up during their term.
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Old 20th January 2018, 02:28 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Federal grand juries are standing bodies that consider every case that comes up during their term.
Well then it seems Assange's case is still being considered as I have seen no report of a decision by that jury.
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Old 20th January 2018, 04:10 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Well then it seems Assange's case is still being considered as I have seen no report of a decision by that jury.
Why would you expect to see a report?

Besides, grand juries don't consider cases indefinitely. It's not like they're sitting around, asking each other, "it's been over five years; have we reached a decision on Wikileaks yet?"

No, the prosecutor presents the case he has, and the grand jury reviews it and tells him whether it's strong enough to move forward. It's been over five years with no movement, with no interest. There's no indication that the US currently has any desire to prosecute (or even persecute) Julian Assange.
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Old 20th January 2018, 04:18 PM   #225
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I find the idea that a Grand Jury means a kangaroo court would happen to be a bit odd.
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Old 20th January 2018, 04:56 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I find the idea that a Grand Jury means a kangaroo court would happen to be a bit odd.
The US is one of only two nations that still use grand juries. I don't blame our Kiwi friends for not understanding them.
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Old 20th January 2018, 05:42 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US is one of only two nations that still use grand juries. I don't blame our Kiwi friends for not understanding them.
You know I should take that as an insult.

You are correct that I am not familiar with the detail of how grand juries work, but I have read that they can find accusations unfounded. If this was the case with the Grand Jury set up to consider charges against Assange (as was reported in the NYT) surely there would be some recording of this. How do you know that charges are not still under consideration?
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Old 20th January 2018, 06:32 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US is one of only two nations that still use grand juries. I don't blame our Kiwi friends for not understanding them.
I'm disappointed no one has risen to the bait yet.




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Old 21st January 2018, 03:45 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The US is one of only two nations that still use grand juries. I don't blame our Kiwi friends for not understanding them.
These grand juries in America do not have any defence lawyers, or opposing counsel. If there has been an indictment of Assange it has not been reported by the 'keeping it dark' mainstream media, perhaps for legal reasons. There is a similar sort of thing and reporting restrictions in the family courts in the UK which the Daily Mail newspaper keeps moaning about. I agree that there are sensitive and personal considerations involved, but justice needs to be seen and seem to be done. If there has been an indictment, Assange is in trouble.

In the Jeffrey MacDonald case in about 1975 the transcripts are all on the internet. In the JonBenet Ramsey case Grand Jury, where there was no indictment of the Ramseys the transcripts are still secret, and not on the internet. The laws are probably different in different states of the United States, and New York is probably secret.

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Old 22nd January 2018, 02:51 AM   #230
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One of my brothers works as an expert witness in these Family Courts, which often involves children, and he says the judges there ae either very good or very bad. That is the sort of thing Assange is up against.

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Old 22nd January 2018, 07:08 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
One of my brothers works as an expert witness in these Family Courts, which often involves children, and he says the judges there ae either very good or very bad. That is the sort of thing Assange is up against.
Except that Assange isn't up against anything like that at all.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 09:17 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Except that Assange isn't up against anything like that at all.
That's a ridiculous thing to say. British judicial lawyers have said publicly that Assange is a fugitive from justice. Clinton is still going around in America talking about Russian WikiLeaks and about Russian collusion in her election defeat. Assange is in grave peril of spending the rest of his life in prison in America thanks to American judicial lawyers. I think it's unfair on people who still believe in plain speaking.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...gal-conference
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Old 22nd January 2018, 09:54 AM   #233
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He is a fugitive from justice.
British justice, not US.
He jumped bail.

It has sod all to do with "plain speaking".
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Old 25th January 2018, 09:36 PM   #234
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How is his run for Senate working out?
That's the title of this thread.
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Old 26th January 2018, 12:07 AM   #235
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I'm pretty sure he holds foreign citizenship...
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Old 7th February 2018, 03:43 PM   #236
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Assange... still wanted by the U.K. after his arrest warrant for skipping bail was upheld.

From: https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...-warrant-valid
... a judge ruled that the arrest warrant against the WikiLeaks founder was still valid.
...
Summers had argued to the court last month that since the Swedish case against Assange had been dropped, the warrant had “lost its purpose and its function”....But Arbuthnot rejected that argument on Tuesday, saying: “I’m not persuaded that the warrant should be withdrawn.” She said Assange not surrendering to bail was an offence in its own right.
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Old 7th February 2018, 04:46 PM   #237
theprestige
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Shoulda just stayed in Sweden and gotten it over with.
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