ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 10th January 2019, 02:16 PM   #441
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,581
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Save a little face for whom? Who in the world will say, "Hey everyone maybe Trump's not so bad after all" if he gives in on anything? His base? The Democrats? The media? No.
The media falls over themselves to find reasons to call him "presidential" or to say, yet again, that he has "pivoted".

And establishment Dems are desperate to have sort of a return to "normalcy". They want "the system" to work so badly.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 02:19 PM   #442
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,523
I truly think that Trump would have a much easier time dealing with Dems than with McConnell: they will let him have all kinds of vanity projects in return for substantive migration, healthcare, labor and tax reform.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 02:26 PM   #443
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,581
Hell, they won't even need to pay anything. Just show up weekly and tell him how smart and handsome he is.
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 02:36 PM   #444
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,876
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Save a little face for whom? Who in the world will say, "Hey everyone maybe Trump's not so bad after all" if he gives in on anything? His base? The Democrats? The media? No.
Face for him. This all about Trump's narcissistic and fragile ego. More than anything, he doesn't want to appear weak. But even he has to see that he looks like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum to the majority of Americans.

A million people that work for the government will not receive a paycheck in a week. Secret Service is not getting paid. TSA is not getting paid. This brinkmanship tactic is not good.
__________________
ď A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. Ē
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 02:51 PM   #445
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,995
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
A million people that work for the government will not receive a paycheck in a week. Secret Service is not getting paid. TSA is not getting paid. This brinkmanship tactic is not good.
Trump has taken it over the brink by not dealing. He will find it hard to get back now beyond taking a fall.

Also, I'm pretty sure he is simply not canny enough personally to work tactics like this. He has been just wise enough to have "advisors". In the past, it was his dad's clever-clogs accountants who dreamed up the schemes of ripping off everyone legally (OK, semi-legally). More recently, it has been a team of staff whispering in his ear - Bannon, Miller, etc. Given Trump's day-to-day problems with speaking rationally (!!), his public failures to elucidate the issues properly, and even the incapacity to write tweets in even semi-sensible English, I doubt seriously he can figure out these complex high-level legal maneuvers himself. This whole episode is all someone else's idea. I'm guessing it's Miller. He's that sort of prick.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 03:19 PM   #446
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Face for him. This all about Trump's narcissistic and fragile ego. More than anything, he doesn't want to appear weak. But even he has to see that he looks like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum to the majority of Americans.

A million people that work for the government will not receive a paycheck in a week. Secret Service is not getting paid. TSA is not getting paid. This brinkmanship tactic is not good.
No, he doesn't. And that's the problem. His narcissism makes it impossible for him to see himself as anything other than right. That's why he is so intractable.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 03:28 PM   #447
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,876
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
No, he doesn't. And that's the problem. His narcissism makes it impossible for him to see himself as anything other than right. That's why he is so intractable.
Yea, but pretty soon those unpaid Secret Service Agents will be pointing those Sigs at him.
__________________
ď A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. Ē
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 03:47 PM   #448
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yea, but pretty soon those unpaid Secret Service Agents will be pointing those Sigs at him.
Don't give me false hope. It's cruel.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 04:21 PM   #449
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 77,129
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
1) Long term Dreamer protection (possible path to citizenship)

2) Medicare for All

3) protection for Mueller

4) Pence resigns

Those 4 things would be acceptable as a trade off. And it has to be all 4.
Why Pence?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 04:41 PM   #450
Leftus
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 951
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Here's a question...

With the shutdown, many workers are furloughed and/or working without pay. Now, since they're laid off they still officially have a job.

What if the shutdown lasts longer and an employee decides to quit so they can find a better job. Is there anything they can do to obtain severance pay? Has anyone ever tried?
No such thing as severance pay for federal employees.

I've thought about it a bit. I can't quit because I'd have to log in to quit and logging in is technically illegal. Also, there is nobody there to process it, so yeah.

So what I would do is take a day off my new job when the government returns, quit my government job, and get my backpay. I'm not sure how legal that would be, or even ethical, but that would be my plan. After all I didn't quit my government job until they let me.
Leftus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 05:56 PM   #451
Arcade22
Illuminator
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 4,821
Shutdown struggles: 'My son wants to sell art to pay our bills'

It's truly the end of days when government employees children feel the need to try and sell Undertale fan art to help their struggling families. Since the drawing was almost as awful as the art in the game i feel a need to help them. They should set up an account at patreon.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 05:58 PM   #452
commandlinegamer
Philosopher
 
commandlinegamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mazes of Menace
Posts: 8,809
An increase in vandalism has been reported in at least one National Park, Joshua Tree, including trees being damaged and possibly felled in order to create new "roads" in the park.

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.or...-illegal-roads

It may not be possible to say definitively the shutdown is the reason for the destruction here, but a reduction in the security provision in areas of natural beauty and/or species are endangered where deliberate damage already occurs can hardly be of benefit.
__________________
He bade me take any rug in the house.
commandlinegamer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 06:44 PM   #453
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,995
Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
An increase in vandalism has been reported in at least one National Park, Joshua Tree, including trees being damaged and possibly felled in order to create new "roads" in the park.

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.or...-illegal-roads

It may not be possible to say definitively the shutdown is the reason for the destruction here, but a reduction in the security provision in areas of natural beauty and/or species are endangered where deliberate damage already occurs can hardly be of benefit.
Trump doesn't go there so he doesn't give a ****.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 06:45 PM   #454
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,619
Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
An increase in vandalism has been reported in at least one National Park, Joshua Tree, including trees being damaged and possibly felled in order to create new "roads" in the park.

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.or...-illegal-roads

It may not be possible to say definitively the shutdown is the reason for the destruction here, but a reduction in the security provision in areas of natural beauty and/or species are endangered where deliberate damage already occurs can hardly be of benefit.
Is it Happy Hour? Have a nice shot of your favorite libation and read the comments. Trumpettes are outnumbered but damned if they don't show up anywhere, making up "facts" the way their leader does.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 06:57 PM   #455
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,995
Trump, on whether he has the right to declare a National Emergency:
Quote:
I would almost say definitely...
Almost say? Is there a sliding scale of "definitely" in your language? Is that like being a little bit dead?
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 07:44 PM   #456
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Trump, on whether he has the right to declare a National Emergency:Almost say? Is there a sliding scale of "definitely" in your language? Is that like being a little bit dead?
I think Trump may actually be "a little bit dead"...as in brain dead.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 08:19 PM   #457
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,619
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The House passes (with all House Democrats and 8 House Republicans voting for) a bill that would restore funding to key government financial services; most notably the IRS and Treasury Department. The White House is expected to veto it.
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Will he even see it. No way it gets past the turtle.
Called it!
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 09:33 PM   #458
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,995
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Called it!
I'm pretty sure the Dems knew it would get stalled outside the turtle-shell. In fact, depended on it. Because they can then point to the increasing pile of legislation that would end the shutdown and say it is all McConnell's fault, not ours, that this isn't progressing. Doesn't matter what he says about "not passing anything Trump won't sign". The ball is firmly back with McConnell.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 09:43 PM   #459
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,523
It's a kind of ursurping of power for McConnell to assume what Trump would and wouldn't sign - it's his job to send legislation to the White House, and it's arrogant for him to presume to know the President's mind.
As I mentioned, this is most likely deliberate sabotage of Trump by Mitch.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.

Last edited by The Great Zaganza; 10th January 2019 at 09:49 PM.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 09:46 PM   #460
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,995
Is Mitch, then, derelict in his duty as a US senator to NOT do his job?
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th January 2019, 10:10 PM   #461
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,812
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Trump spewed lies, but so weakly (and with such apparent effort to maintain reading and speaking simultaneously!) that I didn't even get all riled up at it.

<snip>

It's hard to get riled up about Trump trying to sight-read (badly) the very same tired old lies that he tweets over and over.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th January 2019, 03:38 AM   #462
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 77,129
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Is Mitch, then, derelict in his duty as a US senator to NOT do his job?
Oh, he's doing worse than that.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 05:59 AM   #463
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,555
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/polit...ion/index.html

It seems entirely clear now that the shutdown has nothing to do with the wall. This is yet another attempt to distract from the now several Russia investigations. Only problem is that the stories are getting bigger than the shutdown story.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 06:32 AM   #464
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 26,130
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Face for him. This all about Trump's narcissistic and fragile ego. More than anything, he doesn't want to appear weak. But even he has to see that he looks like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum to the majority of Americans.

A million people that work for the government will not receive a paycheck in a week. Secret Service is not getting paid. TSA is not getting paid. This brinkmanship tactic is not good.
Well, I guess the president has an inkling of a belief that this brinkmanship tactic is not good. After all he tried to get people to call it a strike instead of a shutdown. But he really doesnít have the disposition and personality to do anything except repeat his demands while making up new lies to support his case; so the shutdown will continue.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 11:13 AM   #465
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 22,883
From WaPo:
Quote:
Before lawmakers left Washington Friday, House Minority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.) attempted to make a similar point as Trump did Saturday about the 2016 election in a floor exchange with Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.).

“He was elected by the American people as president to carry out border security and build a wall,” Scalise said. “It was part of the national debate. I know some people on your side don’t even want to recognize that that election occurred and the result. But it happened.”

Replied Hoyer, “Oh no, I think there was an election, and he did raise that question. And as I recall, that’s why I’m the majority leader and you’re the minority whip.”
Hoyer seriously nailed Scalise's ass.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 02:22 PM   #466
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,538
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It's a kind of ursurping of power for McConnell to assume what Trump would and wouldn't sign - it's his job to send legislation to the White House, and it's arrogant for him to presume to know the President's mind.
As I mentioned, this is most likely deliberate sabotage of Trump by Mitch.
I don't think the word "arrogant" is appropriate, stupid is the word I'd have used.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 03:23 PM   #467
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 19,550
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I don't think the word "arrogant" is appropriate, stupid is the word I'd have used.
Kind of a false dichotomy, that.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 04:28 PM   #468
Brainache
Nasty Brutish and Tall
 
Brainache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 17,134
Is there some kind of time limit on how long a shut-down can continue?

Can a President be removed from office for failing to fulfil his oath?
Originally Posted by Trump
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Is he faithfully executing the Office of President if he refuses to maintain basic government services?

He has shut down the government to further his personal political agenda. That doesn't look like someone faithfully executing the office of President to me.

Maybe he is preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution to the best of his abilities. I'm no expert on the US Constitution, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lawyer could find multiple examples of Trump breaching this part of the oath.

Is "Breach of Oath" still a thing?
Brainache is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 05:37 PM   #469
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,812
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/polit...ion/index.html

It seems entirely clear now that the shutdown has nothing to do with the wall. This is yet another attempt to distract from the now several Russia investigations. Only problem is that the stories are getting bigger than the shutdown story.

From the article;
Quote:
FBI agents and senior officials began to suspect connections between Trump and Russia during the 2016 campaign but pushed off an investigation partially because they were unsure how to execute such a massive and sensitive operation, sources told the Times.

But when Trump then tied Comey's firing to the Russia investigation two separate times, the FBI opened the probe, the people said to the Times.

Unsurprisingly, it was Trump's own mouth that got him.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 05:47 PM   #470
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 22,812
Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
Is there some kind of time limit on how long a shut-down can continue?

The time limit is how long it takes the GOP ( which, keep in mind, is now the Trump Party) to quit walking in lockstep with him.

Quote:

Can a President be removed from office for failing to fulfil his oath?

<snip>

Is "Breach of Oath" still a thing?

Same answer. Congress can impeach and convict him on pretty much any grounds they want to. There is no schedule of impeachable offenses.

But the GOP isn't going to let that happen, and they control the Senate, which does the trial and convicting part of the process.
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 07:13 PM   #471
Brainache
Nasty Brutish and Tall
 
Brainache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 17,134
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The time limit is how long it takes the GOP ( which, keep in mind, is now the Trump Party) to quit walking in lockstep with him.




Same answer. Congress can impeach and convict him on pretty much any grounds they want to. There is no schedule of impeachable offenses.

But the GOP isn't going to let that happen, and they control the Senate, which does the trial and convicting part of the process.
Thanks for that.

I still think that it's odd for the President to swear an oath of office if there is no penalty for breaching that oath.

I suppose people could argue that the oath has not been breached, but if it has could a President be charged with perjury, or something? Lying under oath? Dereliction of duty? Reckless endangerment? Criminal negligence?

Square-dancing in a round house???
Brainache is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 07:20 PM   #472
Tero
Graduate Poster
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 1,329
I almost gave 10 dollars to the Dump Mitch campaign today.
Tero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th January 2019, 09:07 PM   #473
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 6,495
Originally Posted by Tero View Post
I almost gave 10 dollars to the Dump Mitch campaign today.
We've both probably wasted more money than that on less worthy causes.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2019, 12:46 PM   #474
Leftus
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 951
Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
I still think that it's odd for the President to swear an oath of office if there is no penalty for breaching that oath.
Separation of powers. Who would get to decide when the oath was breached? FBI? Every Federal law enforcement agency is under the executive branch, headed by the president. The only real enforcement action that can be undertook would be impeachment. So we are back to where we are at now.
Leftus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2019, 08:15 PM   #475
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,995
Anyone taking bets on how long before Mitch caves? Or his own party tell him to quit being a stupid prick and get the ball rolling again so they have a chance in 2020?
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2019, 10:12 PM   #476
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,523
Mitch won't cave, since he wants Trump to crash and burn in the eyes of Americans whilst Republicans look like nothing more than "too loyal to the President" but get little direct blame.
Only if Trump signals an end to the shutdown will he do something.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2019, 10:57 PM   #477
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 3,995
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Mitch won't cave, since he wants Trump to crash and burn in the eyes of Americans whilst Republicans look like nothing more than "too loyal to the President" but get little direct blame.
Only if Trump signals an end to the shutdown will he do something.
Mitch's party might step in and tell him to extract digit before he crashes the GOP with Trump at the controls. Most thinking Americans can see that Trump is out of control now. And Mitch pandering to the lunatic's childish whims is hardly a "good look" for the GOP.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015

Last edited by Norman Alexander; 13th January 2019 at 10:59 PM.
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2019, 11:42 PM   #478
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,619
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Mitch's party might step in and tell him to extract digit before he crashes the GOP with Trump at the controls. Most thinking Americans can see that Trump is out of control now. And Mitch pandering to the lunatic's childish whims is hardly a "good look" for the GOP.
Well, Mitch would have to have a two falls out of three deathmatch to move to the sensible ground. Ol' Lindsay is at it again, suggesting that Donnie Johnny agree to open a few departments for a week to ease some of the Trump created hardships. He'll be back having lunch with Trump and kissing his ass again real soon but they are starting to read the polls and Trump's hold over his key demographic is now slipping.....

Every education category now rates higher as "Disapprove". The overall "Non-College Grad" now disapproves Trump by 15 points. Even taking out those pesky darker-hued individuals, White Non-College Grads" now show a minus two. Those same demographics are both harsher on him and go easier on him, respectively, as to the responsibility for the shutdown. Overall non grads say "Trump Is" by 18 points but white non-grads say it's the Dems in Congress by six points.

I still predict the polls will be the impetus to reopen the government. I'm still not betting on whether it will be by fiat caused by the made-up Emergency/Crisis or if it will be some little victory he can claim while caving on everything else.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th January 2019, 11:51 PM   #479
Brainache
Nasty Brutish and Tall
 
Brainache's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 17,134
I think its a shame that you guys can't just dissolve the government and hold a snap election, like they do in civilised countries...
Brainache is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th January 2019, 12:03 AM   #480
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,523
Originally Posted by Brainache View Post
I think its a shame that you guys can't just dissolve the government and hold a snap election, like they do in civilised countries...
Wasn't that the plot of Designated Survivor?
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isnít.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:59 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.