ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 20th December 2018, 04:16 PM   #41
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 7,025
Trump's sycophant Stephen Miller is actually claiming Mattis didn't quit, but is "retiring".
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 04:41 PM   #42
Minoosh
Philosopher
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,876
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump's sycophant Stephen Miller is actually claiming Mattis didn't quit, but is "retiring".
I can't wait to see how Fox News is going to spin this as a positive.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 04:48 PM   #43
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,938
It is not as simple as our Trump defenders are making it, in that whether or not one things withdrawing is a good idea or not, this withdraw is abjectly moronic.

Obviously those who think pulling out is a bad idea overall obviously are already covered.

Those who are for pulling out of Syria specifically, even doing it now, should still think this specific mechanism is utterly negligent. Without a plan and discussing it with the Pentagon (which was not done, when asked they had no idea what the plan was), will at the very least put our troops in more danger. It isn't as simple as 'alright, everyone get on the plane, don't turn on the movie until we're out of STA missile range'.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 04:49 PM   #44
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 7,025
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I can't wait to see how Fox News is going to spin this as a positive.
I'm thinking the same thing so am switching on Fox.

Brett Baier: "Mattis retiring, but really resigning, if you listen to the resignation letter."

ETA: The Fox Banner says "Mattis to Retire Amid Policy Disagreements with Trump"

Last edited by Stacyhs; 20th December 2018 at 04:55 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 05:20 PM   #45
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It is not as simple as our Trump defenders are making it, in that whether or not one things withdrawing is a good idea or not, this withdraw is abjectly moronic.

Obviously those who think pulling out is a bad idea overall obviously are already covered.

Those who are for pulling out of Syria specifically, even doing it now, should still think this specific mechanism is utterly negligent. Without a plan and discussing it with the Pentagon (which was not done, when asked they had no idea what the plan was), will at the very least put our troops in more danger. It isn't as simple as 'alright, everyone get on the plane, don't turn on the movie until we're out of STA missile range'.

Obviously you obviously have no clue about anything obvious about this obvious mess the obviously illegal US forces in Syria are into. Obviously people who seem to be obvious "Trump defenders" to you are obviously better informed and have better sources to form their less obvious conclusions.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 05:23 PM   #46
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,251
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What exactly is at stake for us in Syria? What would staying accomplish? How much resources (both in lives and money) is it worth to accomplish that? How much resources will it take to accomplish that?

And if staying in Syria is important enough to spend lives and treasure, why hasn't Congress authorized it?

Maybe a good case for staying in Syria can be made. I don't know, it's a messy situation and there's a lot about it which isn't public information. But if we are going to stay, that case needs to be made to the American public. And it hasn't been. I don't know if withdrawal is a good move, but I'm not ready to conclude that it's a bad move.
Well according to the Trump Administration as of Monday, the US was going to remain in Syria even after the last of ISIS was gone so that they could help rebuild the area, train the security forces and work with the Kurds, all to prevent any possibility of a return of fundamentalism in the area, a mission that could take months or even years. The specific quote given was that "it was not the right time to declare mission accomplished and withdraw right now."

According to Republican Senators such as Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, John Cornyn, Jim Banks, and Ben Sasse this is a move that will embolden ISIS and other groups such as Iran and Hezbollah, that it will allow access to Israel for Iran, and allow Russia to take centre stage in the Middle East, all while reflecting poorly on the US for failing to keep its promises and commitments to allies. In a meeting with 40 Republican Senators and VP Pence, it is being reported that, according to Marco Rubio, all but one of the senators, Rand Paul, were against this move and that they sent Pence back to Trump with a strongly worded message against his actions.

Finally the Pentagon and the military advisers to the President are all against this move, so much that the Sec of Defense, Gen Mattis, has now resigned over it, stating that he cannot remain in the job because his views are not able to be aligned with those of the President.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)


Last edited by PhantomWolf; 20th December 2018 at 05:25 PM.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 05:33 PM   #47
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,893
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Mattis resigned. His resignation letter basically declared he didn't agree with Trump on Syria and the treatment of our allies (Kurds) and that Russia and China aren't our friends. Mattis had enough of his idiot boss.
Mattis just proved that he's not "kind of a Democrat" like Trump said. He is a full on Democrat!


The new definition of Democrat is anyone that disagrees with Trump.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 05:54 PM   #48
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,689
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
My thoughts on Syria - on the one hand I care about Syria. On the other I don't really give a damn. I got a busy day.
Thank you for sharing this astute commentary. I'm mean really, give me a break already. What's a couple hundred thousand deaths?A drop in the ocean.

I look forward to learning the myriad of other things you don't care about. And having seen your withering complaints about the level of discourse on ISF, this object lesson is much needed!
Thank you again!!
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 06:00 PM   #49
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
btw, the full-blown lunatic "representative for Syria" Trump has domesticated stayed away from his UN meetings likely crying in the basement the whole day.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 06:23 PM   #50
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 19,950
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Thank you for sharing this astute commentary. I'm mean really, give me a break already. What's a couple hundred thousand deaths?A drop in the ocean.

I look forward to learning the myriad of other things you don't care about. And having seen your withering complaints about the level of discourse on ISF, this object lesson is much needed!
Thank you again!!
Needs magenta.

__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 06:23 PM   #51
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,938
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Obviously you obviously have no clue about anything obvious about this obvious mess the obviously illegal US forces in Syria are into. Obviously people who seem to be obvious "Trump defenders" to you are obviously better informed and have better sources to form their less obvious conclusions.
Completely wrong and doesn't even attempt to address my major point, but I did say 'obviously' twice in one sentence, so there is that.

No, they don't know better, do not have better sources, and the experts with actual working knowledge who don't hate the US agree with me, so there is that.

Hey Zigg and theprestige, how does it feel to have Childlike Empress on your side?
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 06:39 PM   #52
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 33,244
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Completely wrong and doesn't even attempt to address my major point, but I did say 'obviously' twice in one sentence, so there is that.

No, they don't know better, do not have better sources, and the experts with actual working knowledge who don't hate the US agree with me, so there is that.

Hey Zigg and theprestige, how does it feel to have Childlike Empress on your side?
About the same as not having her on my side?

This must be one of those things like Fox News, that the progressives here care about way more than the conservatives do.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 06:44 PM   #53
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,938
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
About the same as not having her on my side?

This must be one of those things like Fox News, that the progressives here care about way more than the conservatives do.
I do care about huge red flags.

When most all the people and groups whose interests and values align with the US, or care about the US, find a move deplorable and dangerous, but a ton of groups whose interests are directly counter to the US, have values counter to the US, and actively hate the US not only agree with me but are making the same arguments I'm making, that's going to make me go back over my reasoning very closely.

If you think being wary of those who actively hate the US is a progressive thing, well, alright?
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

Last edited by tyr_13; 20th December 2018 at 06:46 PM.
tyr_13 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 06:50 PM   #54
zorro99
Muse
 
zorro99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 733
Trump surrenders to ISIS. Putin will give him a medal.
__________________
There is nothing as deceptive as an obvious fact.
zorro99 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 07:03 PM   #55
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 20,698
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Trump's sycophant Stephen Miller is actually claiming Mattis didn't quit, but is "retiring".
Because that's what Trump himself said. Miller will probably be the next SecDef, unless someone else happens to pass by Trump's office first.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 07:14 PM   #56
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 7,025
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Because that's what Trump himself said. Miller will probably be the next SecDef, unless someone else happens to pass by Trump's office first.
Miller already has a job: Secretary of Rectal Habitation.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 07:14 PM   #57
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
About the same as not having her on my side?

This guilt-by-association (Kontaktschuld) game is just so ingrained into collectivist commie psyche that it isn't even funny anymore, or is it?
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 07:26 PM   #58
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 19,543
Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Mattis just proved that he's not "kind of a Democrat" like Trump said. He is a full on Democrat!


The new definition of Democrat is anyone that disagrees with Trump.
Well, it does have "rat" in it!
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 07:54 PM   #59
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 33,244
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I do care about huge red flags.

When most all the people and groups whose interests and values align with the US, or care about the US, find a move deplorable and dangerous, but a ton of groups whose interests are directly counter to the US, have values counter to the US, and actively hate the US not only agree with me but are making the same arguments I'm making, that's going to make me go back over my reasoning very closely.

If you think being wary of those who actively hate the US is a progressive thing, well, alright?
Your analysis seems to depend on two things: Taking Putin's public statements at face value, and taking CE's body of work seriously at all. Since I don't share your dependencies, I don't see why I should share your conclusions.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 07:54 PM   #60
W.D.Clinger
Illuminator
 
W.D.Clinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,560
According to an official press briefing put out by the US State Department just over a week ago, on Tuesday, 11 December, the Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS had this to say:

Originally Posted by Brett McGurk
Even as the end of the physical caliphate is clearly now coming into sight, the end of ISIS will be a much more long-term initiative. We’ve talked about that many times. Nobody working on these issues day to day is complacent. Nobody is declaring a mission accomplished. Defeating a physical caliphate is one phase of a much longer-term campaign.

...snip...

And if we’ve learned one thing over the years, enduring defeat of a group like this means you can’t just defeat their physical space and then leave; you have to make sure the internal security forces are in place to ensure that those gains, security gains, are enduring. So the enduring defeat of ISIS means not just the physical defeat, but make sure that we are training local security forces. So that will take some time.

...snip...

We have obviously learned a lot of lessons in the past, so we know that once the physical space is defeated, we can’t just pick up and leave.

Now, a sign of that: areas that we have cleared of ISIS, they have not returned or actually seized physical space. There’s clandestine cells. Nobody is saying that they are going to disappear. Nobody is that naive. So we want to stay on the ground and make sure that stability can be maintained in these areas.
My conclusion: the State Department has been referring to the President of the United States as "Nobody".

Last edited by W.D.Clinger; 20th December 2018 at 07:56 PM. Reason: capitalization
W.D.Clinger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 08:12 PM   #61
Norman Alexander
Illuminator
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,941
Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
According to an official press briefing put out by the US State Department just over a week ago, on Tuesday, 11 December, the Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS had this to say:...
I wonder if this unlucky recipient of a Trump position is going to resign as well. What's the point of him doing all that work only to have The Boss ignore and crap on him from a height.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 09:36 PM   #62
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 72,849
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
If there were such a thing as a place that takes bets on the existence of a piss tape, the odds would sharply change today.
Interesting point.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 10:03 PM   #63
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,893
It's cute that the Trumpanzees are trying to spin this as anything but Trump giving deference to Russia and Turkey for personal gain.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th December 2018, 10:19 PM   #64
Polaris
Penultimate Amazing
 
Polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,359
Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
According to an official press briefing put out by the US State Department just over a week ago, on Tuesday, 11 December, the Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS had this to say:


My conclusion: the State Department has been referring to the President of the United States as "Nobody".
Next he'll declare victory over the cyclops.
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar

"Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.
Polaris is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 12:17 AM   #65
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 72,849
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What exactly is at stake for us in Syria? What would staying accomplish? How much resources (both in lives and money) is it worth to accomplish that? How much resources will it take to accomplish that?

And if staying in Syria is important enough to spend lives and treasure, why hasn't Congress authorized it?

Maybe a good case for staying in Syria can be made. I don't know, it's a messy situation and there's a lot about it which isn't public information. But if we are going to stay, that case needs to be made to the American public. And it hasn't been. I don't know if withdrawal is a good move, but I'm not ready to conclude that it's a bad move.
Remind me what the point of going into Afghanistan was after 9/11?

ISIS
Taliban
al Qaeda

I wish this country had an actual plan what to do about this actual terrorism threat instead of the hap-hazard way of going at it. Obama wasn't great. Trump's actions by the seat-of-his-ignorant-narcissistic-pants is a nightmare.

The Kurds would be important allies if we actually supported them instead of caving to Turkey and the remnants of Iraq.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 21st December 2018 at 12:20 AM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 01:00 AM   #66
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
It bears repeating that everything the US did and does in Syria is illegal under international law. Pseudo-leftists who recently have warmed up to the goodness of Bush the Elder should remember this in their "analysis". Events in Syria are none of your business. The great young people Trump is calling home now (symbolically, none of those low thousands actually in Syria are either young or great) should rebuild your third world infrastructure instead of meddling in the affairs of folks on the other side of the planet.

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 21st December 2018 at 01:01 AM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 01:10 AM   #67
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,085
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It bears repeating that everything the US did and does in Syria is illegal under international law. Pseudo-leftists who recently have warmed up to the goodness of Bush the Elder should remember this in their "analysis". Events in Syria are none of your business. The great young people Trump is calling home now (symbolically, none of those low thousands actually in Syria are either young or great) should rebuild your third world infrastructure instead of meddling in the affairs of folks on the other side of the planet.
How dare The US be there illegally trying to prevent ISIS from illegally torturing and slaughtering thousands, illegally trying to prevent Turkey from illegally slaughtering the Kurds, Illegally trying to prevent Assad from illegally slaughtering his opponents, If they keep this up they might get ideas about trying to illegally deter China from illegally annexing the South China Sea, or illegally criticise Russia for illegally invading the Ukraine. Yup you sure picked the right criminals to oppose.

Last edited by Hungry81; 21st December 2018 at 01:11 AM.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 01:35 AM   #68
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How dare The US be there illegally...

Because they have had an ideology of being the exceptional nation with a mission to form the planet in their image. And had a quarter of a century to show us how capable they are. Which brought us to this place. Too dumb to rule the world. Apparently the current president sees this and wants to focus on the country itself, where focus belongs. And everybody is cheering because the stuff Yankistan did and does overseas is illegal under international law which was formed to prevent that what happened in WWII does happen again.

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 21st December 2018 at 01:37 AM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 01:47 AM   #69
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 14,236
Bunch of ill informed ignorant libtards. If the commander in chief, in possession of the full facts, decides that the best thing for America is to become a Russian vassal state you should shut up and accept the decision of your superior.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 01:56 AM   #70
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Bunch of ill informed ignorant libtards. If the commander in chief, in possession of the full facts, decides that the best thing for America is to become a Russian vassal state you should shut up and accept the decision of your superior.

I'd recommend Comic Sans to really bring across the point.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 02:03 AM   #71
Lothian
should be banned
 
Lothian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 14,236
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'd recommend Comic Sans to really bring across the point.
I thought about using green 'ink'.
Lothian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 02:09 AM   #72
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
I thought about using green 'ink'.

Here:

Now try to focus on the 21st century, which isn't the "New American Century".

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 21st December 2018 at 02:13 AM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 02:58 AM   #73
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,101
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
It bears repeating that everything the US did and does in Syria is illegal under international law. Pseudo-leftists who recently have warmed up to the goodness of Bush the Elder should remember this in their "analysis". Events in Syria are none of your business. The great young people Trump is calling home now (symbolically, none of those low thousands actually in Syria are either young or great) should rebuild your third world infrastructure instead of meddling in the affairs of folks on the other side of the planet.
Russian apologist talking about law as if the word meant anything to them. Pathetic.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 05:09 AM   #74
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 24,028
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Without a plan and discussing it with the Pentagon (which was not done, when asked they had no idea what the plan was), will at the very least put our troops in more danger.
He also didn't discuss it with the US's allies. UK officials only found out about it through Trump's tweet.

I don't pretend to know enough bout the situation there to have an informed opinion, and I've heard reasoned pro and anti arguments from informed people on both sides of the political spectrum, but I'm definitely cognisant of the fact that this announcement was welcomed by Putin and caused the US Secretary of Defence to be the first in history to resign in protest, and did so specifically citing his decades of experience in matters such as these. At the very least that strikes me as indicating that more thought should be applied.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 06:25 AM   #75
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 12,689
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Thank you for sharing this astute commentary. I'm mean really, give me a break already. What's a couple hundred thousand deaths?A drop in the ocean.

I look forward to learning the myriad of other things you don't care about. And having seen your withering complaints about the level of discourse on ISF, this object lesson is much needed!
Thank you again!!
The last time I'll post from a phone.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 07:38 AM   #76
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 19,950
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
The last time I'll post from a phone.
It's ok, we already thought you were really mean anyway.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 07:48 AM   #77
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,101
Quote:
JERUSALEM — The American decision to withdraw from Syria has abruptly scrambled the geopolitics of the Middle East, clearing the way for Iran to expand its influence across the region, leaving Israel virtually alone to stop it, and raising the prospect that thousands of Islamic State prisoners could be set free.

...

To Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, Mr. Trump’s decision came as a deep embarrassment heading into an election year in which his national-security credentials, closeness with Mr. Trump and obsessive focus on stopping Iranian expansion were central to his argument for another term. Mr. Netanyahu said he learned of the withdrawal decision in talks with Mr. Trump on Monday.

“This caught the Israeli government by surprise,” said Ofer Zalzberg, an Israeli analyst at International Crisis Group. “I don’t know whether indeed Trump called Netanyahu two days ago or not, but that’s a very short time between two close allies. That’s barely a heads-up.”
The US troops were not just there to help defeat Isis, they were also there to try and check Iran's expansion into Syria. If Israels relations with Russia continue to deteriorate it's quite possible that Iran will establish a strong military presence along the Syrian border much like the one Israel now has with Lebanon.

The situation in Yemen could also grow even worse if the Saudi's decide to compensate with increased aggression.
__________________
Freedom you all want, you want freedom. Why then do you haggle over a more or less? Freedom can only be the whole of freedom; a piece of freedom is not freedom. You despair of the possibility of obtaining the whole of freedom, freedom from everything - yes, you consider it insanity even to wish this? - Well, then leave off chasing after the phantom, and spend your pains on something better than the - unattainable. - Max Stirner
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 08:10 AM   #78
SuburbanTurkey
Graduate Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 1,431
The Kurds are learning the true value of allying with America.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 08:15 AM   #79
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,251
And it gets worse. Putin suggests in his annual speech that the US should get out of Afghanistan too, and immediately Trump announces that he's pulling most of the troops out of there too, despite the fact that the Taliban have been making a major come back.

But hey, Putin says jump, Trump asks how high.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st December 2018, 08:28 AM   #80
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 16,638
Great news: Erdogan puts invasion plans on hold, "could happen in the next months". Before the US withdrawal, he threatened to invade "any moment now".

The clueless should know that the US hawks had planned to form a 40,000 men army out of the kurdish-dominated SDF, which was a very serious security concern for the Turks, even without Erdogan's megalomania and cruelty. So there's more hope now that this will lead to a good end.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:32 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.