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Old 22nd December 2018, 10:32 AM   #161
tyr_13
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
What sort of real expertise have they actually demonstrated? These are the architects of the Iraq war, Libya destabilization, "oops" creation of ISIS via a proxy war in Syria, etc, right?
Oh it probably includes them, but also includes those who have objected to all of the actions you cite, so that is a meaningless metric.

It also includes most anyone who has planned a sucessful camping weekend. There are so many elements of the specifics here that are just stupid that it doesn't matter if you want troops out, that simply is not the question.
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Old 22nd December 2018, 12:00 PM   #162
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US envoy Brett McGurk quits over Trump Syria pullout

Quote:
A top US official in the fight against the Islamic State group has quit over President Trump's decision to pull troops from Syria, reports say.

Brett McGurk, the US special presidential envoy for the Global Coalition to Defeat IS, brought his departure forward from February.

Before Mr Trump's announcement he had insisted that the US would continue working against IS in Syria.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46661384
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Old 22nd December 2018, 01:52 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
There's nothing to apologize for. The German propagandists have invented the term "Putinversteher" ("understander of Putin") as a smear, as if understanding something was bad, I certainly would wear that with pride.
Since you understand him so well, perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why he has stolen $200 billion from Mother Russia.
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Old 22nd December 2018, 05:43 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Since you understand him so well, perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why he has stolen $200 billion from Mother Russia.
For the same reason a dog licks its balls.
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Old 22nd December 2018, 07:16 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
For the same reason a dog licks its balls.
To take away the taste of the dog food?

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Old 22nd December 2018, 08:30 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
Since you understand him so well, perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why he has stolen $200 billion from Mother Russia.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
For the same reason a dog licks its balls.
That's the same reason other criminals commit crimes - because they can.
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Old 22nd December 2018, 08:35 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That was from an event he does once a year answering questions from everybody who wants to ask. It goes several hours. Try to imagine Trump doing such a thing. Or Saint Obama without his two teleprompters. Or a "gangster".
I can easily imagine a criminal answering questions for a few hours a year if it insures him the opportunity to continue to steal hundreds of billions $$$ from Mother Russia.

All the oligarchs lust to rob poor Mother Russia. Apparently, it is easy to get away with. Like mugging an old lady.
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Old 22nd December 2018, 11:27 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That was from an event he does once a year answering questions from everybody who wants to ask people carefully chosen to ask fake questions which Putin knows the answers to beforehand.
These "questions" are written carefully so he can appear to be "honest and open" with his answers and give the appearance of being just a normal sorta guy, shucks. Putin is a pretty skilled purveyor of this sort of propaganda, I'll give him that.

BTW, Russia Today (RT) does this too.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 01:51 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The military has engineers, and the workers would become experienced soon enough.

It's a better idea than them just sitting around in Spain and Germany.
Most USA military in other countries are there for one reason and one reason alone, part of the USA's military strategy, they serve the USA's interests not the host country's. Sometimes the host country also gets a benefit from the USA presence but that is always secondary to the USA's goals.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 01:52 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I think Russia apologist is fine. China white is a form of heroin; it's not called Chinese white.

I don't know if consider yourself a Russia apologist or a Putin apologist. But at least Putin - who I consider a gangster - isn't systematically working to dismantle his own country's strategic influence in global affairs. Even if I agreed with pulling troops out of Syria and Afghanistan, the way Trump is doing it is a slap in the face to his own handpicked security advisers and sends a message not lost on U.S. rivals.
It also redefines allies as rivals.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 02:05 AM   #171
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"Crime is not crime when it's done by Repub politicians".

So say the small gubmint folks.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 02:58 AM   #172
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Childlike Empress - I agree that we should be more sceptical about western politicians. Heck I studied politics for 4 years at university and my biggest takeaway was don't trust any of them! But then , why do you not extend the same scepticism to Putin? From all available evidence he is not an honest actor. He uses threats, intimidation, even murder to promote his agenda. Why do you continue to defend him when he is on the same ladder of bad actions and corruption of the western politicians you so readily attack?
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Old 23rd December 2018, 03:18 AM   #173
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Trump Tweets

Brett McGurk, who I do not know, was appointed by President Obama in 2015. Was supposed to leave in February but he just resigned prior to leaving.
Grandstander?
The Fake News is making such a big deal about this nothing event!
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Old 23rd December 2018, 03:19 AM   #174
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Trump is admitting that he doesn’t know the special US envoy to the coalition in the was against ISIS. Let that sink in and consider this every time he pretends to know what’s going on in the war against ISIS.

Erdogan Called on Trump to Fire Special Envoy Brett McGurk in May 2017... I guess Trump knew who he was after all...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-anti-is-envoy

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Old 23rd December 2018, 05:21 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Parsman View Post
Why do you continue to defend him when he is on the same ladder of bad actions and corruption of the western politicians you so readily attack?
You really have to ask?

And as bad as Western politicians mostly are, I have hard time believing in them rather routinely assasinating domestic journalists or stealing billions of dollars from their own population. Millions in many cases, certainly, but everything some of them do, Putin does thousand times more and then some. There is no rational doubt about that.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 06:07 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
These "questions" are written carefully so he can appear to be "honest and open" with his answers and give the appearance of being just a normal sorta guy, shucks. Putin is a pretty skilled purveyor of this sort of propaganda, I'll give him that.

BTW, Russia Today (RT) does this too.

You just have to read the transcript to know that this is not true.

To the others: You are not taking all available evidence into account, you rely on one side only. And again, I'm not "defending" or "apologizing". I'm shaking my head in disbelief about how well this constant propaganda still works in times when everybody can see through it if they want. And they should want if they consider themselves "skeptics".

Anyway, Putin has, contrary to the laughable thread title, almost nothing to do with the topic, to discuss which I am here. Get over your conditioning.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 06:10 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You just have to read the transcript to know that this is not true.

To the others: You are not taking all available evidence into account, you rely on one side only. And again, I'm not "defending" or "apologizing". I'm shaking my head in disbelief about how well this constant propaganda still works in times when everybody can see through it if they want. And they should want if they consider themselves "skeptics".

Anyway, Putin has, contrary to the laughable thread title, almost nothing to do with the topic, to discuss which I am here. Get over your conditioning.
This is projection on steroids.

IF we take your advice, old Vlad the poisoner will be all up in our heads.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 06:44 AM   #178
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The latest by excellent and well-connected analyst Elijah Magnier makes it seem like all is going in the right direction generally.

Originally Posted by Elijah Magnier
Following President Trump’s decision to withdraw US forces from occupied northeast Syria, the Kurds of al-Hasaka have for the last two days been negotiating with the government of Damascus on how to spare the province from a possible Turkish invasion. Syrian General Ali Mamlouk, the Syrian president’s special security advisor, says that “he is talking with the Kurdish delegation to find a way for the Syrian army to deploy its forces along the borders with Turkey and, in consequence, stop a possible Turkish invasion of Northeast Syria”, confirmed a decision-maker source in the Syrian capital, Damascus.

According to the Source, at the start of the negotiation the Kurdish delegation repeated their familiar mantra—asking for the Syrian Arab Army to protect Syrian borders from the Turks, while allowing the Kurdish YPG to maintain their separate military organization inside the province of al-Hasaka. Damascus rejected this proposal and instead proposed a special status for the Kurdish administration within Syria, opening the road for members of the YPG to join the Syrian Army in a special Kurdish and Arab contingent. [...]
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Old 23rd December 2018, 06:48 AM   #179
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It feels wrong saying trump's "decision." He has shown extremely limited capability to shepherd something extremely complicated to completion. He may be inlucl given the amount of decision making that can be done at the pentagon (as opposed to pushing through legislation which often requires the president to convince people). But I'm not getting excited until it starts.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 07:19 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The reason it is treated differently is track record. To paraphrase a joke I heard recently, there is a big difference between your mom telling you she fed your baby while you were out and Gary busey saying he fed your baby.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 07:53 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The reason it is treated differently is track record. To paraphrase a joke I heard recently, there is a big difference between your mom telling you she fed your baby while you were out and Gary busey saying he fed your baby.
An even more compelling reason is that the secretary of defense and the envoy in charge of the destruction of ISIS have both resigned in protest. Both have provided compelling reasons why they cannot go along with it.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:02 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
An even more compelling reason is that the secretary of defense and the envoy in charge of the destruction of ISIS have both resigned in protest. Both have provided compelling reasons why they cannot go along with it.
I do not find them compelling.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:12 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I thought Obama got a lot of flak when he pulled out of Iraq even-though he had no choice because the Iraqi's wouldn't allow them to stay unless they were subject to Iraq's legal system (which was completely unacceptable to the US). Basically everyone with a clue wanted there to be a residual force on the ground.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:25 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
It feels wrong saying trump's "decision." He has shown extremely limited capability to shepherd something extremely complicated to completion. He may be inlucl given the amount of decision making that can be done at the pentagon (as opposed to pushing through legislation which often requires the president to convince people). But I'm not getting excited until it starts.
This post, and another one a couple of weeks back where you suggested Trump shouldn't be subject to some law or another because he's mentally handicapped, takes the Bob cake. And that's saying something!

What do you mean by "it"? What do you mean by "feels"? What do you mean by "wrong"? (These are rhetorical questions. Rhetorical questions don't require a response. A non-response would be appreciated actually.)
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:29 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
This post, and another one a couple of weeks back where you suggested Trump shouldn't be subject to some law or another because he's mentally handicapped, takes the Bob cake. And that's saying something!

What do you mean by "it"? What do you mean by "feels"? What do you mean by "wrong"? (These are rhetorical questions. Rhetorical questions don't require a response. A non-response would be appreciated actually.)
Why does it take the cake?
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:30 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Most USA military in other countries are there for one reason and one reason alone, part of the USA's military strategy, they serve the USA's interests not the host country's. Sometimes the host country also gets a benefit from the USA presence but that is always secondary to the USA's goals.
It seems to me like the biggest part of the strategy is simply "busywork" - something for the troops to do while we wait for the next ground war/invasion, and it gives the soldiers a break from being in the dangerous places like Afghanistan.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:48 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Why does it take the cake?
Why would you ask that? (Sorry, couldn't resist!)
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:51 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Why would you ask that? (Sorry, couldn't resist!)
Because I don't understand the phrase.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 08:59 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I do not find them compelling.
Well then. That's all that matters.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 09:18 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
A "gangster". LOL. I quoted him with the snippet on the topic thrown around by the pre$$titutes, adding the whole quote. That was from an event he does once a year answering questions from everybody who wants to ask. It goes several hours. Try to imagine Trump doing such a thing. Or Saint Obama without his two teleprompters. Or a "gangster". Now, if you have the time you can read or skim the transcript at the Kremlin site and try to understand the nature of his more or less spontaneous, free talk answers. Maybe it helps.
I see no reason why being an intelligent plunderer of public resources would be inconsistent with an ability to talk at length and seemingly candidly. I'm not insulting his intelligence or speaking ability. My basic assumption is that he's pretty rich for a career public servant. I don't have any way to independently confirm that he's a billionaire, though.

"Apologist" doesn't necessarily denote a smear. Maybe it has come to mean that, on this board or elsewhere, but in English it hasn't traditionally meant apologizing for anything.

I consider Angela Merkel pretty smart. She can do business with Putin while still understanding Russia's desire to remain/become a world power in the post-Soviet world. She may well trust Putin more than Trump at this point, because Putin, for better or worse, is probably a rational actor and competent businessman. Trump meanwhile is a loose cannon who runs enterprises into the ground.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 09:25 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Because I don't understand the phrase.
Are you not a native speaker?
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Old 23rd December 2018, 09:26 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Are you not a native speaker?
None of your business.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 09:30 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post

"Apologist" doesn't necessarily denote a smear. Maybe it has come to mean that, on this board or elsewhere, but in English it hasn't traditionally meant apologizing for anything.
The only context I've ever heard it not be a smear in is in referring to religious apologetics.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 09:55 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The only context I've ever heard it not be a smear in is in referring to religious apologetics.
That's really the prime example I was thinking of. Dictionary definitions don't put the smear connotations for first usage.

ETA: "Denote" vs. "connote," if that still means anything.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 10:11 AM   #196
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Another little timely hint to the clueless:

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Old 23rd December 2018, 10:16 AM   #197
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Trump Tweets

I just had a long and productive call with President @RT_Erdogan of Turkey. We discussed ISIS, our mutual involvement in Syria, & the slow & highly coordinated pullout of U.S. troops from the area. After many years they are coming home. We also discussed heavily expanded Trade.
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Old 23rd December 2018, 10:22 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

I just had a long and productive call with President @RT_Erdogan of Turkey. We discussed ISIS, our mutual involvement in Syria, & the slow & highly coordinated pullout of U.S. troops from the area. After many years they are coming home. We also discussed heavily expanded Trade.
"Highly coordinated" with what, Trump's alimentary canal?
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Old 23rd December 2018, 10:23 AM   #199
llwyd
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
None of your business.
Well, I googled it for you: https://www.macmillandictionary.com/.../take-the-cake
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Old 23rd December 2018, 11:00 AM   #200
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,458
Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Then I'm confused because I said trump is bad at his job. That is generally non offensive.
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