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Old 3rd January 2019, 09:08 AM   #161
Segnosaur
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So, looks like some mixed messages on the Border wall...

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...sional-leaders
“We’re ready to deal. We have an offer on the table,” Pence said. The White House last week proposed roughly $2.1 billion in wall funding plus hundreds of millions more for general border security, but Democratic leaders did not respond to the proposal. But Trump on Wednesday said that he would not accept that amount, regardless of whether Democrats would. “No, not 2.5, no,” Trump said, adding that “we're asking for 5.6”...


So what does this show?

- Basic chaos within the Trump administration, with inconsistent claims, and a willingness for Trump to throw his people (including Pence) under the bus. You know, I would have sympathy for Pence but, you know, Pence doesn't really deserve any

- Trump is completely unable to actually made a deal
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Old 3rd January 2019, 09:36 AM   #162
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As near as I can figure, Trump is simply waiting for people such as Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter to say something like "This shutdown clearly proves that Trump is not like Obama after all all.". After all, it was people like Limbaugh and Coulter who were recently saying things like "Trump is just like Obama.".

Anyway, once it is clear that the stupid, idiotic, lying right-wing nut commentators are no longer Trump bashing, then Trump will be able to make up his mind as to what he will do next.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 10:53 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
This is irrelevant. If you have to deal with a loss of a couple of weeks of income more often than necessary then you have to make greater provision for that and that costs money.

That is assuming that you have the opportunity to make provision for loss of income.
That's the thing. We had to scale back our Christmas shopping quite a bit, and the shutdown had not even started yet when we were doing our shopping. We scaled back car maintenance, scaled back medical services (I was going to get a CPAP machine, that can wait I suppose). I was going to sign up for language lessons (my foreign born wife no longer wants to live in the U.S., but that's another story), but I cancelled that as well.

We cancelled all of that.

As I said earlier, I have not yet missed a paycheck, but I still need to call my mortgage and car loan people to see if I can get those deferred. I can't wait until I can't make the payment to figure out what to do. I need to see if our bank offers zero interest loans for this (probably not). We don't have much cash savings because we are a middle class family with kids. We already were not sure how to pay for my daughter's braces in a year or two, much less how to make mortgage payments with no paycheck.

The most likely solution may be a home equity loan, although without knowing how long the shutdown will last, it is hard to know how much to borrow. The last resort is to end up charging to credit cards, which would be terrible.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 11:23 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
We don't have much cash savings because we are a middle class family with kids. We already were not sure how to pay for my daughter's braces in a year or two, much less how to make mortgage payments with no paycheck.
Its all your fault for being a middle-class family with kids.

You should have sold your children off for medical experiments. That would have saved you money on child care (as well as providing a source of income.)
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Old 3rd January 2019, 12:34 PM   #165
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From the Tampa Bay Times:

Quote:
Local Coast Guard families decry shutdown’s ‘slap in the face’ as they borrow to pay bills

The White House and Coast Guard found a way to make the Jan. 1 payroll. But as the shutdown drags on, they worry it’s the last one for a while.

With no end in sight for a 10-day-old government shutdown, Coast Guard helicopter mechanic Bradley Jones prepared for an overnight shift on New Year’s Eve worried that his family’s mounting bills won’t get paid.

Like more than 1,100 other Coast Guard personnel living and working in the Tampa Bay area, Jones, 26, got a temporary reprieve when the Trump administration and the service branch came up with a reported $75 million to fund paychecks due Jan 1. But beyond that, there are no guarantees. And for a force whose motto is Semper Paratus — Latin for “always ready” — the financial uncertainty is creating hardship and stress.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 01:04 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by jrhowell View Post
From the Tampa Bay Times:

Local Coast Guard families decry shutdown’s ‘slap in the face’ as they borrow to pay bills
If the shutdown lasts late into January it will start to affect the pay of all members of the armed forces. I think that may be the tipping point. (I doubt any republican wants to risk alienating a group that tends to vote republican on a regular basis.)
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Old 3rd January 2019, 01:16 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To be fair, they probably should have started looking for other jobs the last time this happened. Or the time before that. Or maybe this was the point where they should have started making informed decisions about whether to pursue a career with the federal government.

Or maybe all of this history should have tipped them off.

Unless part of their savings strategy was to set aside money specifically as a hedge against this kind of job uncertainty, in which case everything is going pretty much as planned for them, and when the shutdown ends they'll start replenishing their contingency fund.


I've been without income for a while. I have nothing but sympathy for people who are stuck in a crap job they can't get out of. We should definitely help those people.
If we use your reasoning, which companies and industries have such a level of stability that people shouldn't be looking for a new job?
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Old 3rd January 2019, 01:19 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And not all government employees are paid at the same time. There are different agencies, including those that are quasi-government-- not actual civil service, but in technically civilian companies that just happen to act like the civil service in some respects. They still get shut down during crap like this, though.
And private contractors won't be getting paid, supplier for perhaps toilet rolls to the FBI won't be being paid.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 01:26 PM   #169
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This isn't about "placating an idiot", it's about border security. That is the only argument I've seen here in the last few pages...they shouldn't "give in" because Trump. How childish.

What is the Dem alternative?

We know what the left wants because they are already getting it. Sanctuary cities, drivers licenses, and yes illegals can even vote in SF now.

Dems aren't signing up because they have a different agenda. They don't care about the wall itself really, they want illegals to keep coming in (see previous paragraph) and they hate Trump. Doesn't matter if it's a wall, more border patrol, cameras or anything else. They don't want it and they will vote against all of it, especially if Trump is for it.

Five billion is not a lot of money people, it's like 10 miles of high speed rail here in Cali What a laugh. It's pocket change.

I don't care who pays for it and whether it is a wall or something else, but something needs to be done. Sick of the bullcrap from both sides. Republicans have had plenty of chances to do something too.

Government shutdown, a wall, or millions of illegals - all of these cost money. I wonder which one hurts us the most long term?

As far as government paychecks go - just remember all the great benefits that the gov likes to hand out. Crazy pensions, great salary, awesome health care. And you will get paid.

I can lose my job any day and for no reason. But good luck trying to get a state or federal worker fired, or (lol) laid off. Almost impossible. My sister and an in-law both work for the state and they have stories to tell.

I mean y'all got a paid day off to mourn Bush's death. I'm sure everyone stayed home and cried.

I do actually care about people having financial problems over this. I'm just sick of the stupidity here. Write your congresspersons. Tell them to start giving a crap about you.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 01:29 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I haven't read all 3 pages of this thread yet but a couple things stood out to me in just the first page:

1. The expected defense of Trump and the attempted minimization of the effect of this shutdown on the country by the usual suspects.

2. "And most people, given the opportunity to work for such a dysfunctional organization, quite reasonably decline and seek employment elsewhere." (The prestige, post #3)

A good example of this is the many positions still not filled by the Trump Administration, including WH Chief of
Staff and Secretary of Defense.

3. Those not being paid cannot even claim unemployment as they are technically employed.

4. The number of people on furlough and not being paid: 350,000 .
The number of people working but not being paid: 420,000 (Washington Examiner).
I suppose these 770,000 people could all quit and go look for a more stable boss, but I have a sneaking
suspicion this just might negatively affect everyone in the country.
And who is this more stable boss?
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:00 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This isn't about "placating an idiot", it's about border security. That is the only argument I've seen here in the last few pages...they shouldn't "give in" because Trump. How childish.

What is the Dem alternative?

We know what the left wants because they are already getting it. Sanctuary cities, drivers licenses, and yes illegals can even vote in SF now.

Dems aren't signing up because they have a different agenda. They don't care about the wall itself really, they want illegals to keep coming in (see previous paragraph) and they hate Trump. Doesn't matter if it's a wall, more border patrol, cameras or anything else. They don't want it and they will vote against all of it, especially if Trump is for it.

Five billion is not a lot of money people, it's like 10 miles of high speed rail here in Cali What a laugh. It's pocket change.

I don't care who pays for it and whether it is a wall or something else, but something needs to be done. Sick of the bullcrap from both sides. Republicans have had plenty of chances to do something too.

Government shutdown, a wall, or millions of illegals - all of these cost money. I wonder which one hurts us the most long term?

As far as government paychecks go - just remember all the great benefits that the gov likes to hand out. Crazy pensions, great salary, awesome health care. And you will get paid.

I can lose my job any day and for no reason. But good luck trying to get a state or federal worker fired, or (lol) laid off. Almost impossible. My sister and an in-law both work for the state and they have stories to tell.

I mean y'all got a paid day off to mourn Bush's death. I'm sure everyone stayed home and cried.

I do actually care about people having financial problems over this. I'm just sick of the stupidity here. Write your congresspersons. Tell them to start giving a crap about you.
Oh that's ****** nonsense.

I got news for you. This won't make America more secure.

You're just spouting xenophobic bull-crap. You buy Trump's bull-******? Illegal immigration is at an all time low and it was ﹰﹰBEFORE Trump took office. The idea that this is some massive problem is idiotic and appeals to people that are simply afraid of foreigners. They are just people. They are not any more likely to be drug dealers or criminals than your neighbor American born citizen.

My biggest problem with a wall is it is stupid, stupid,stupid! As General Patton said 'fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man'.

A wall only stops people at a specific location. People simply go another way. Like the Germans going around the Maginot Line. Like the Allies and Hitler's Atlantic Wall.

Like through ports of entry. There are far too many ways of entering the country.
Most illegal immigrants come into the country as visitors and overstay their visas.

And I'll take ten miles of high speed rail then one mile of a dumb ass wall that people will simply find a way around.

And OH BTW, I thought Trump said Mexico would pay for the DUMB ASS WALL? Tell stupid lying POS Trump that he can pay for the wall, but quit asking Americans to pay!
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:06 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This isn't about "placating an idiot", it's about border security.
No, it is about placating an idiot.

A wall is not an effective method for border control. (Most illegal immigrants arrive legally and then overstay their welcome, and most drugs come through legal points of entry.) And even if it was, the number of illegal aliens has been dropping for years, and those in the U.S. are less likely to commit crimes than natural born Americans. So no, its not about 'border security'. Its about placating an idiot president who is having a temper tantrum because he can't get a useless wall funded (which he said would be paid for by Mexico.)
Quote:
That is the only argument I've seen here in the last few pages...they shouldn't "give in" because Trump. How childish.
Then you're not looking very hard.

I've posted several reasons why the wall is a bad idea and should be opposed, not just 'Because Trump wants it'.... costs to the taxpayer, expropriation (read "stealing") of land, environmental harm.
Quote:
What is the Dem alternative?
Increased electronic monitoring. Better training for agents. Charges against those employing illegal aliens (to remove the incentive for them to go to the U.S.). Improve the plight of people in other countries so that they don't feel the need leave.
Quote:
Five billion is not a lot of money people, it's like 10 miles of high speed rail here in Cali What a laugh. It's pocket change.
The total cost of the wall is expected to be well over $20 billion (with some estimates putting it over $70 billion).

That's over $100 taken out of the pocket of each and every taxpayer in the United states. Not sure about you, but that's a bit more than what I keep as 'pocket change'.
Quote:
Government shutdown, a wall, or millions of illegals - all of these cost money. I wonder which one hurts us the most long term?
Not sure why you are considering 'a wall' and 'millions of illegals' as separate options, since a wall will be pretty useless in stopping illegal immigration. So the option should read "a wall which will still allow millions of illegal immigrants".
Quote:
As far as government paychecks go - just remember all the great benefits that the gov likes to hand out. Crazy pensions, great salary, awesome health care. And you will get paid.
Whether a person gets paid more working for the private or public sector depends on the job. While some lower-level workers earn more working for the government, skilled workers often fare better in the private sector.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:14 PM   #173
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Split the difference. It's about placating an idiot who's 100% wrong about border security.

Also why does Trump and all the "Protect our borders!" people forget we have two borders?
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:20 PM   #174
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Even if Trump got his wall funding today, then it would still take years to actually build his wall.

After all, there are quite a few of important issues that need to be resovled before such a large scale project can be started. Here are a few that come to my mind:

No decisions have been made as to what type of wall to build.
No decisions have been made as to just where the wall where the wall will be built.
No decisions have been made concerning when the wall will be built.
No environmental studies have been made concerning the installation of the wall.
No properties have been acquired to build the wall.
No construction bids for building the wall have been submitted.

Furthermore, Trump wants about 5.5 billion dollars to build this wall, but I would expect that the final total for the wall would be at least twice this value since there are invariably cost over-runs, materials shortages, additional studies that need to be completed, changes to the project, and so on.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:32 PM   #175
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Quote:
No environmental studies have been made concerning the installation of the wall.
Which is irrelevant because Trump will just ignore any environmental impact (which the government can do).
Quote:
No properties have been acquired to build the wall.
Work has already begun on that.

From: https://www.businessinsider.com/gove...n-where-2018-6
The federal government is moving to seize private land in a section of southern Texas to make room for President Donald Trump's border wall. The land seizures would take place in the Rio Grande Valley...

I'm sure all the pro-Trump libertarians will be quite happy to see people lose their property. After all, isn't that one of the basic tenants of libertarianism? That the government can take your stuff?
Quote:
Furthermore, Trump wants about 5.5 billion dollars to build this wall, but I would expect that the final total for the wall would be at least twice this value since there are invariably cost over-runs, materials shortages, additional studies that need to be completed, changes to the project, and so on.
Twice that? Try 4 times that amount. Most estimates put the cost of a border wall at over $20 billion. Some go as high as $70 billion.

Trump is definitely low-balling things. Not sure if he plans to build part of the wall and stop, or its his way to get a foot in the door.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:38 PM   #176
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Trump, show us your business plan. Cost of wall vs capturing and deporting aliens without wall.
I thought so. No plan. ”We want 5 point x billion!”
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:39 PM   #177
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Apparently Trump's so desperate to avoid being shown up by the Democrats passing a budget on their first day that he's personally giving a press briefing for the first time in office.

[ETA] And is refusing to take questions from the press. What a putz.

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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:44 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Also why does Trump and all the "Protect our borders!" people forget we have two borders?
Plus all that coast. Luckily nobody's pissing off the Coast Guard by not paying them...oh, wait.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 03:26 PM   #179
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I work for a Federal contractor. We have a couple weeks’ more funding on our program, but can’t go on site, so I have to (get to) work remotely. Which is really quite lucky for me personally. Then I can use up my remaining leave - I’m fortunate to have leave to take. Then my employer will let me go negative on my time card for a week or so and make it up later. Then I have resources to fall back on, could look for other work, etc. So I’m in considerably better shape than many people.

None of which excuses this idiocy caused by Trump and his screeching sycophants, and enabled by corrupt and cynical quislings in the GOP Congress.

There are a number of small restaurants right outside our facility, which do a lot of lunch business from my civil servant and contractor colleagues. No one’s going to repay them for their wholly unnecessary loss of income. Trump and the GOP’s message to these small businessmen: “Sorry, you’re screwed.” Except they’re not sorry.

This isn’t “Congress’ fault”. This is specifically and wholly the fault of Trump - he even explicitly said so - and his Republican accomplices, willing to hold a whole lot of people hostage for Trump’s ego and their hardcore and xenophobic base. This isn’t about real border security, only the Trumpist cargo-cult fantasy version, patrolled by an army of GOP strawmen. And no, I’m not a Democrat, but this both-sides crap is ridiculous.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 03:36 PM   #180
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The next few week are going to be... interesting!
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Old 3rd January 2019, 04:42 PM   #181
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The US government shuts down every time someone throws their dolly out of their pram.

So is it any surprise that Donald Trump is on his 3rd government shutdown in two years ?

An infant's gotta do what an infant's gotta do....

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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:06 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If a mob boss points a gun at your father's head and tells you to embezzle hundreds of thousands of dollars to line the mob boss's pockets, do you reward that sort of behavior, etc.?
Guys, it's not a good sign when even a Trump apologist thinks THIS is appropriately analogous to our current president.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:14 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
If we use your reasoning, which companies and industries have such a level of stability that people shouldn't be looking for a new job?
I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be some kind of Socratic teaching method?

Answer your own questions.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:44 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be some kind of Socratic teaching method?

Answer your own questions.
The question is based on YOUR premise, which is YOURs to defend.

If you can't defend it, we'll understand....
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:50 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
This isn't about "placating an idiot", it's about border security. That is the only argument I've seen here in the last few pages...they shouldn't "give in" because Trump. How childish.
No, it's about placating an idiot who thinks that an impossible 2000 mile concrete wall (or is it 'slats' now? It keeps changing) is synonymous with border security. It isn't. As has been repeatedly stated both here and by experts, Trump's wall will not address the actual problem of illegal immigration. It's a simple fix for simple minds who think walls are 100% effective and that walls and wheels don't improve with time.



Quote:
We know what the left wants because they are already getting it. Sanctuary cities, drivers licenses, and yes illegals can even vote in SF now.
Oh, dear, the typical right wing response: fear, fear, and misinformation.
The vast majority of illegal immigrants are honest, hard working families who only want a safe place to live and a better life for themselves and their children. Are there some criminals? Sure. But criminality among illegal immigrants is actually lower than among the citizen population. Yet, to listen to Trump, they're all members of MS13, drug dealers, rapists and/or carrying diseases into the country to infect all us good Amuricans.

Illegals in SF can ONLY vote in a local school board election. Your claims implies far more than that. As Shamann Walton, the San Francisco Unified School District commissioner who introduced a resolution to the school board said “At the end of the day, for me it’s important that families who have children in our schools … have a say.”
And why shouldn't they? Most illegals pay taxes that support public schools.

Maybe if people stop buying into all the fear mongering Trump spouts, they'd see the vast majority of immigrants as people just trying to lead a better life instead of an evil 'horde' out to get them.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:53 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be some kind of Socratic teaching method?

Answer your own questions.
Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
The question is based on YOUR premise, which is YOURs to defend.

If you can't defend it, we'll understand....
Perfect example of the "the best defense is a good offense" tactic. The trouble with this tactic is that it only works when it's use isn't recognized. Which you did.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 07:22 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Apparently Trump's so desperate to avoid being shown up by the Democrats passing a budget on their first day that he's personally giving a press briefing for the first time in office.

[ETA] And is refusing to take questions from the press. What a putz.
That was a Trunt (Trump Stunt). He's in Donnie Johnny is Loved mode sitting around with some of his yes-men from Homeland Security, Border Protection, MAGA Space Force or whatever and decided the press needed to see these brave Trall supporters. So he sent an announcement out that Huckleberry Sanders would have a briefing "in fifteen minutes". The press corps was all over the city and rushed back to hear her say, "I have someone who'd like to address you..." and Dumplethinskin addressed them on his glorious wall and then turned around and walked out.

It's his narcissism kicking in. He thinks he should be followed by cameras or at least have fifteen or twenty of them waiting within a few feet so that he can self-glorify at any moment. In his dim little brain he's thinking "See? These people love me! The world needs to see this so everyone gets the same warm-and-fuzzies that I get."
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Old 3rd January 2019, 07:39 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
That was a Trunt (Trump Stunt). He's in Donnie Johnny is Loved mode sitting around with some of his yes-men from Homeland Security, Border Protection, MAGA Space Force or whatever and decided the press needed to see these brave Trall supporters. So he sent an announcement out that Huckleberry Sanders would have a briefing "in fifteen minutes". The press corps was all over the city and rushed back to hear her say, "I have someone who'd like to address you..." and Dumplethinskin addressed them on his glorious wall and then turned around and walked out.

It's his narcissism kicking in. He thinks he should be followed by cameras or at least have fifteen or twenty of them waiting within a few feet so that he can self-glorify at any moment. In his dim little brain he's thinking "See? These people love me! The world needs to see this so everyone gets the same warm-and-fuzzies that I get."
The media was giving full attention to the seating of the Democrat controlled House and Pelosi's Speaker position being voted on. He needed to get it back where it belongs: on him.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 07:43 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post

It's his narcissism kicking in. He thinks he should be followed by cameras or at least have fifteen or twenty of them waiting within a few feet so that he can self-glorify at any moment. In his dim little brain he's thinking "See? These people love me! The world needs to see this so everyone gets the same warm-and-fuzzies that I get."


All right, Mr. Hannity, I'm ready for my close-up.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 07:45 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
That was a Trunt (Trump Stunt). He's in Donnie Johnny is Loved mode sitting around with some of his yes-men from Homeland Security, Border Protection, MAGA Space Force or whatever and decided the press needed to see these brave Trall supporters. So he sent an announcement out that Huckleberry Sanders would have a briefing "in fifteen minutes". The press corps was all over the city and rushed back to hear her say, "I have someone who'd like to address you..." and Dumplethinskin addressed them on his glorious wall and then turned around and walked out.

It's his narcissism kicking in. He thinks he should be followed by cameras or at least have fifteen or twenty of them waiting within a few feet so that he can self-glorify at any moment. In his dim little brain he's thinking "See? These people love me! The world needs to see this so everyone gets the same warm-and-fuzzies that I get."
It failed miserable not only because he was orchestrating it, but also because it wasn't Chopper Cam time.
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Old 4th January 2019, 12:09 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be some kind of Socratic teaching method?

Answer your own questions.
I see you've realised the poor reasoning you used would provide a rather silly answer.
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Old 4th January 2019, 08:21 AM   #192
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So Trump is refusing to sign the funding bill because of "border security."

Well E-Verify, the actual system that employers use to verify whether or not a potential employee is in the country illegally been taken off line because of the shutdown.

We've officially drilled holes in the bottom of the boat to let the water that wasn't there out.
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Old 4th January 2019, 09:55 AM   #193
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The government shutdown is no big deal folks.

What is a big deal is AOC dancing in a video in college. Dancing is from the devil!
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Old 4th January 2019, 10:20 AM   #194
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President Trump will speaking in the Rose Garden this afternoon in what two unnamed White House aids are calling "the final word" on the shutdown, according to CNN. (Running news ticker, no link yet)
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Old 4th January 2019, 10:27 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
The question is based on YOUR premise, which is YOURs to defend.

If you can't defend it, we'll understand....
There's nothing to defend against.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.


If you think you see a flaw in my reasoning, spell it out and explain why you think so. We can continue the discussion from there.
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 12.

Last edited by zooterkin; 7th January 2019 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 4th January 2019, 12:43 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That is an excellent question that everybody involved should probably have asked themselves before they got into this game of chicken. Congress could have safeguarded the financial stability (and indeed the lives) of millions of Americans simply by approving a bill they knew the President would sign. Instead, they chose to play a game of brinkmanship with an a naive and self-centered idiot. What could go wrong, indeed?
The Senate thought that he would sign what they passed before the end of the year. I don't think that McConnell thought that he was choosing to play a game of brinksmanship, given that he never brings anything to the floor that won't be signed.
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Old 4th January 2019, 01:37 PM   #197
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Well, at least it is finally becoming obvious as to what Trump wants in regards to his shutdown of the government.

In this case, Trump would rather have the government shutdown than have to deal with the news coverage of his various scandals.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/polit...osi/index.html

Trump confirms he said he could keep shutdown going for months or years

...

Trump "said he'd keep the government closed for a very long period of time -- months or even years," according to Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer, who spoke to reporters in the White House driveway.

"Absolutely I said that," Trump affirmed from the Rose Garden shortly afterward. "I don't think it will, but I'm prepared."

...

And McConnell has insisted he will not bring for a vote any measure that Trump will not sign. The White House issued a veto threat late Thursday for the package of bills passed by the House.

...

Even inside the West Wing, the President's senior aides have not counseled him to accept Democratic proposals that would end the shutdown, believing that having the border security fight in the headlines is more preferable than the special counsel's Russia investigation or Michael Cohen's prison sentence.

...
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Old 4th January 2019, 01:41 PM   #198
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But Pence, the Cabinet, and senior White House officials will get raises if the shutdown continues.

Don't worry, Trump is considering asking them to turn down the raises, while workers don't get paid and had their salaries frozen for 2019.

Quote:
Vice President Mike Pence and senior political aides may see their paychecks go up soon if Congress does not pass legislation that would extend a pay freeze for those officials, according to documents from the Office of Personnel Management.
"Unless extended by new legislation, the pay freeze will end on the last day of the last pay period that begins in calendar year 2018," Margaret Weichert, the agency's acting director, wrote in a memo last week.
The memo notes the pay freeze would therefore end effectively on Saturday if no legislative action occurs.
President Donald Trump was asked during a news conference Friday afternoon if he would ask his Cabinet members, vice president and other senior administration officials who are due to receive the raise not to accept it because of the shutdown.

"Well, I might consider that. That's something I might consider," he said.
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Old 4th January 2019, 01:54 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Guys, it's not a good sign when even a Trump apologist thinks THIS is appropriately analogous to our current president.
You should probably know that I'm the person who vehemently believes that arguments from analogy always fail. I don't think this analogy - or any other - is appropriate, and that if you want to argue a thing, you should argue the thing its own terms. If you think this analogy is appropriate, then I think you're wrong and confused.
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Old 4th January 2019, 01:57 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
The Senate thought that he would sign what they passed before the end of the year. I don't think that McConnell thought that he was choosing to play a game of brinksmanship, given that he never brings anything to the floor that won't be signed.
Fair enough.
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