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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:02 PM   #1
sackett
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A Trump-Positive Thread

There have been complaints about the monotonous anti-Trumpism of most threads here.

All right then, let’s have a thread for substantive discussion of Trump’s actual accomplishments as president. By “substantive,” of course I mean actual measurable, quantifiable achievements -- facts, in a word.

I hope that the discussion can stick to such facts, those stubborn things that don’t go away no matter how we feel about them. In fact, I hope that feelings will have little place in this thread, and that we’ll hear a minimum of yapping, snarking, and snottery.

To start somewhere, here’s a guy in WaPo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.d5581d2b6e15

listing the ten best things Trump did in his first year. Yes, it’s just an editorial, but he seems to cite sources for some of what he opines.

Can any Trump supporters here provide factual support in that vein for what they contend?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:24 PM   #2
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I'm sure there'll be a cure soon for all you Trump-positive people. In the meantime, stay strong.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:36 PM   #3
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Dondon is good friends with Kim Jong-un
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:40 PM   #4
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:55 PM   #5
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He lead America into 2019, the highest year number ever.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:57 PM   #6
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He has destroyed the concept of "American Exceptionalism".

At one point, I had a significant amount of respect for America. Now that I see that almost half of the U.S. will happily elect a bigot, it has opened my eyes, and I no longer see the U.S. as anything special. Just the opposite. They should be looked down on.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 01:58 PM   #7
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This doesn't quite fit with the OP, but:

He won, so he's the Prez.
The economy is going well, apart from the stock market.
He uses social media very well.

I'm struggling a bit now......
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:13 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I'm sure there'll be a cure soon for all you Trump-positive people. In the meantime, stay strong.
It's no longer the barrier to a full and active life that it should be used to be.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 02:58 PM   #9
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I did see an opinion that Trump's egregiously awful attitudes have contributed to some things such as the "me too" movement, increased voter participation by minorities, and so forth, by motivating and unifying opposition. I suppose there's a point to me made there. The objectionable qualities many see him to exemplify have lurked in the body politic for long before he showed up. Sometimes a disease needs a chancre to remind us of its severity.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
There have been complaints about the monotonous anti-Trumpism of most threads here.

All right then, let’s have a thread for substantive discussion of Trump’s actual accomplishments as president. By “substantive,” of course I mean actual measurable, quantifiable achievements -- facts, in a word.

I hope that the discussion can stick to such facts, those stubborn things that don’t go away no matter how we feel about them. In fact, I hope that feelings will have little place in this thread, and that we’ll hear a minimum of yapping, snarking, and snottery.

To start somewhere, here’s a guy in WaPo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.d5581d2b6e15

listing the ten best things Trump did in his first year. Yes, it’s just an editorial, but he seems to cite sources for some of what he opines.

Can any Trump supporters here provide factual support in that vein for what they contend?
Sadly, that article is absurd. It's filled with fabrications and falsehoods.

To start with


10. He enforced President Barack Obama's red line against Syria's use of chemical weapons.

There is significant evidence that Assad's military has continued to use chemical weapons
It's also true that his government has slaughtered countless civilians and the pullout in Syria will leave many at the mercy of the cruel Assad regime.


.9. He has taken a surprisingly tough line with Russia. Trump approved a $47 million arms package for Ukraine, sent troops to Poland's border with Russia and imposed new sanctions on Moscow for violating the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty.

Saying Trump has done this is absurd. Congress did this over his objections,

8. . He recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

It is debatable that this was a good thing


7.He withdrew from the Paris climate agreement.

This too is not a good thing.

6.. He got NATO allies to kick in $12 billion more toward our collective security.

Another half truth. Some have agreed to increase there own military budgets over time. It's quite debatable that they will.

5.He has virtually eliminated the Islamic State's physical caliphate.

Another half truth. But at what cost? How many people are being decimated by Assad, Turkey and the Russian military.

4 He admitted he was wrong on Afghanistan and reversed Obama's disastrous withdrawal.

Very little has changed in Afghanistan. What's notable is that despite that Trump is now talking about withdrawing from Afghanistan which is a quagmire and has been since Bush launched the war there.

3.He enacted historic tax and regulatory reform that has unleashed economic growth. Trump signed the first comprehensive tax reform in three decades and removed the wet blanket of Obama-era regulations smothering our economy. We are now heading into our third consecutive quarter of above 3 percent growth.

Trump inherited a vibrant economy and tossed more fuel on the fire. Fuel in the way of tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans and massive deficits for the nation. And every indication is now is that the bubble is bursting. The stock market saw its worst year in a decade.

Trump's answer now is to cut spending by reducing benefits for the poor and seniors.


I'm not going to address number 2 and number 1 as they too are not what I would call good for the nation.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:30 PM   #11
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uh, and he is on Twitter too
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Old 2nd January 2019, 05:49 PM   #12
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He has greatly lowered the bar for what the public should expect from future Presidential candidates.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 06:16 PM   #13
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Trump has increased interest in American politics much the same way that a friend's unexpected death increases interest in getting life insurance.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 06:23 PM   #14
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Trump can positively go **** himself.

Did I do it right?
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Old 2nd January 2019, 06:38 PM   #15
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Take anything you think is positive that was done. Complete this sentence (this also works if he hypothetically supported a position you like)....

And Trump based that decision on....


I don't think you are going to give an answer that suggests he is qualified for the office.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 07:00 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
There have been complaints about the monotonous anti-Trumpism of most threads here.

All right then, let’s have a thread for substantive discussion of Trump’s actual accomplishments as president. By “substantive,” of course I mean actual measurable, quantifiable achievements -- facts, in a word.

I hope that the discussion can stick to such facts, those stubborn things that don’t go away no matter how we feel about them. In fact, I hope that feelings will have little place in this thread, and that we’ll hear a minimum of yapping, snarking, and snottery.

To start somewhere, here’s a guy in WaPo

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.d5581d2b6e15

listing the ten best things Trump did in his first year. Yes, it’s just an editorial, but he seems to cite sources for some of what he opines.

Can any Trump supporters here provide factual support in that vein for what they contend?
It's not "just an editorial". It an opinion piece(not disputing that that's an editorial... read on) by WaPo's resident right wing columnist. He's a member of the American Enterprise Institute, a former Bush(W) speech writer and well-rounded hawk.

Nothing wrong with citing him, but it really ought to be considered as "here's conservative Marc Thiessen on the topic" because we all know the WaPo is a liberal rag and people automatically assume a WaPo piece is from the liberal media. Not arguing the content, it's just that this is something I see Real Clear Politics doing to pretend they're even-handed. If you scroll through the list linked "news" articles you'll see a more-balanced looking list than the reality actually shows. Their links to articles in the LA Times, WaPo, NYT, Globe, Post-Dispatch, etc.... are usually guest commentators, token conservatives, on the Op Ed page.

Here's the same authors Ten Worst list, from yesterday.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.44cc206c276b
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 07:10 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
He lead America into 2019, the highest year number ever.
The Chinese are currently in year number 4716.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 07:55 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by jeremyp View Post
The Chinese are currently in year number 4716.
A noted Hebrew scholar has pointed out that it must actually be much earlier than that, as the Jewish year is currently 5779 and there's no way we could've survived for a thousand years without Chinese food.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 08:07 AM   #19
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George W Bush now looks like a proper statesman.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 08:22 AM   #20
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I often hear conservatives complain that people on the left ought to give Trump positive credit for the things he does well. That failure to do so is a serious breach of... something.

There's a metaphor that occurred to me early in the presidency, that comes to mind every time I hear this plea.

Imagine that your house has been broken into. That you and your family have been tied to chairs. He rapes your wife and shoots your child in the head. Then, the intruder goes to your kitchen and makes some sandwiches and brings them to you. They aren't bad. Should you really be expected to praise him for the quality of the sandwiches? That seems Kafkaesque to me.

Like the intruder in the metaphor:
  • Trump has gotten in illegally.
  • He then proceeded to plunder the place and hurt people terribly.
  • He plans to do things far worse.

The fact that he can manage to not F up some tasks while in office doesn't seem even worthy of comment. If you survive the home intruder, I don't think the quality of the sandwiches is going to make it into the police report.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 08:35 AM   #21
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The best thing that Trump has done is to provide a voluminous amount of raw material for the political comedians to work with.

I have not seen political comedy flying so high ever since the days of the Clinton/Lewinsky Affair.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 08:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
The best thing that Trump has done is to provide a voluminous amount of raw material for the political comedians to work with.

I have not seen political comedy flying so high ever since the days of the Clinton/Lewinsky Affair.
Nah, he's made all the comedians lazy. Trump is stupid, trump is ugly, trump is mean.....That's pretty much the punch line of every joke these days.


Trump remains not nearly as bad as I expected and not nearly as bad as folks like to claim, or at least not really that different from previous administrations in action while remaining even worse in words than anyone had hoped.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 09:15 AM   #23
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He has raised awareness about just how corrupt and cowardly the GOP is.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 09:29 AM   #24
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Quote:
A Trump-Positive Thread
I'm sure he's tested Positive at some point.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 09:37 AM   #25
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Trump positive sounds like a disease diagnosis, which is appropriate.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 09:53 AM   #26
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How is this thread getting so many posts?
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Old 3rd January 2019, 10:24 AM   #27
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What Trump has accomplished is going to be a matter of opinion and whether or not you agree with his and the GOP policies. As such, I don’t see this thread as particularly useful because, given the demographics of this forum, it will devolve (indeed, already has) into yet another I Hate Trump thread.

For example, one could argue that he’s been pretty successful on ileegal immigration issues . . . unless, of course, you disagree with him. Getting rid of the ACA’s individual mandate could be seen as an achievement . . . unless, of course, you were a big fan of the ACA. What about withdrawing troops from Syria and Afghanistan? Apparently very bad even though it’s something the other side has been arguing for years.

We had the same situation with Obama but in reverse. We are so polarized that “the bad guys” can’t do anything right, even when they do.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 10:25 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Nah, he's made all the comedians lazy. Trump is stupid, trump is ugly, trump is mean.....That's pretty much the punch line of every joke these days.


Trump remains not nearly as bad as I expected and not nearly as bad as folks like to claim, or at least not really that different from previous administrations in action while remaining even worse in words than anyone had hoped.
This.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 11:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
How is this thread getting so many posts?
Dope springs eternal.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 11:58 AM   #30
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Trump has propped up and reinforced the false beliefs of his base. Primary among these are climate change denialism. For this, a future generation may declare him a pariah who cannot be forgiven.

Perhaps they will erect a monolith on Trump's grave, emblazoned with the words:

"If any have ears, let them hear: Those who lead into catastrophe shall go into catastrophe, and end in condemnation. Their final resting places shall be emblazoned with their crimes, and they shall be despised by all generations, for as long as humanity may persist. May the monoliths weigh heavy upon their remains."

Or something to that general effect.

So, in the very long run, Trump's careless, narcissistic hedonism may inadvertently cause his grave to become a rallying point for future generations in their struggles to moderate the damage he will have caused.

Sorry, but that's the only possible positive I can see coming from him. Yes, it's a long shot, but it's the only way.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 01:45 PM   #31
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Those of us who hate America think Trump is doing a wonderful job!
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Old 3rd January 2019, 02:21 PM   #32
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He has finally put a nail in the coffin that there is some kind of objective reality and all it really is subjective. The truth is what he declares it to be.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 03:58 PM   #33
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I'm almost positive he's a human being.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:43 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm almost positive he's a human being.
And if you have any doubts, he's got a doctor's letter to support that hypothesis.
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 4th January 2019, 10:46 PM   #35
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Trump helped us learn something for certain about the GOP and parts of the country that so far we only suspected.
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Old 6th January 2019, 11:41 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
What Trump has accomplished is going to be a matter of opinion and whether or not you agree with his and the GOP policies.
Did you even read the OP? It calls for facts. Facts aren't debatable nor are they simply an opinion.

If you have them, present them. Of course, if you continue presenting legitimate complaints against Trump as merely opinion, however... well, it's obvious why you'd wish to do that.


Quote:
We had the same situation with Obama but in reverse. We are so polarized that “the bad guys” can’t do anything right, even when they do.
We agree then that the Republicans were doing nothing but partisan obstructionism and are only reaping what they have sown. Cool! i knew that there would be something we could find some common ground on!
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Old 6th January 2019, 12:04 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And if you have any doubts, he's got a doctor's letter to support that hypothesis.
I've seen a pic of the doctor, I'm not sure he is human.
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Old 6th January 2019, 06:58 PM   #38
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Okay, I'm going to try very hard to come up with things I think he did correctly:

1. He recognized Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. If you're an American diplomat and you need to meet with the Israeli Prime Minister, you go to Jerusalem. The Israeli congress meets in Jerusalem. It's silly to pretend otherwise.

(Although, it might have been nice if he'd reaffirmed some sort of recognition of the Palestinians at the same time. Or, you know, if he'd done it for any reason other than to appease the small but very, very rich minority of Orthodox Jews who support him.)

2. Federal Sentencing Reform. It's not nearly enough, wildly benefits wealthy, white-collar criminals over the poor, and once again happened to have been directed by Jared Kushner. Still, it's a step in the right direction.

I wouldn't give Trump credit for anything else. Nor, for that matter, do I believe he did either of the above for the right reasons. I'd be surprised if he were able to even articulate a reason, let alone a good one.
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Old 6th January 2019, 08:00 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Okay, I'm going to try very hard to come up with things I think he did correctly:

1. He recognized Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. If you're an American diplomat and you need to meet with the Israeli Prime Minister, you go to Jerusalem. The Israeli congress meets in Jerusalem. It's silly to pretend otherwise.

(Although, it might have been nice if he'd reaffirmed some sort of recognition of the Palestinians at the same time. Or, you know, if he'd done it for any reason other than to appease the small but very, very rich minority of Orthodox Jews who support him.)

2. Federal Sentencing Reform. It's not nearly enough, wildly benefits wealthy, white-collar criminals over the poor, and once again happened to have been directed by Jared Kushner. Still, it's a step in the right direction.

I wouldn't give Trump credit for anything else. Nor, for that matter, do I believe he did either of the above for the right reasons. I'd be surprised if he were able to even articulate a reason, let alone a good one.
Why give Trump credit for the FSR Act when it was a bipartisan bill? Every Democrat voted for it while 12 Republicans voted against it. This was not Trump's baby, it was Congress'. They could have passed it with a super-majority even without Trump's support.
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:15 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Why give Trump credit for the FSR Act when it was a bipartisan bill? Every Democrat voted for it while 12 Republicans voted against it. This was not Trump's baby, it was Congress'. They could have passed it with a super-majority even without Trump's support.

Well, otherwise my list would only have one item. And even then, it's not much of one.
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