Continuation Australian Politics - The Morrison Period Part II

[gabeygoat]

There are chaplains in public schools in Australia? Weird stuff to me.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by gabeygoat

There are chaplains in public schools in Australia? Weird stuff to me.

The National School Chaplaincy Programme was started during the Howard government and has received Federal funding since 2011. It has survived two High Court challenges.

[Wildy]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Correct - no, he doesn't understand. He was eventually forced to apologise after Hawaii, but he didn't actually learn the lesson therein. He lacks empathy let alone sympathy. VERY selfish.

I guess that's what happens when you believe in the "I got mine" parts of Christianity.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

The National School Chaplaincy Programme was started during the Howard government and has received Federal funding since 2011. It has survived two High Court challenges.

Well, not really. In both cases the government lost (the cases were about funding the programme). However in both cases the government simply sidestepped the negative decisions using tricksey rewording of regulations and accounting trickery to continue the programme nevertheless.

Really, this is just a means to funnel millions of taxpayer dollars into specific Christian fundamentalist organisations that certain ministers approve of.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Well, not really. In both cases the government lost (the cases were about funding the programme). However in both cases the government simply sidestepped the negative decisions using tricksey rewording of regulations and accounting trickery to continue the programme nevertheless.

That's why I said "survived" rather than "won".

[lionking]

Hunt simply must resign:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...08-p58pv6.html

Quote:

Federal bureaucrats turned down an offer from pharmaceutical giant Pfizer in mid-2020 for a detailed meeting with top executives and the Health Minister about the company’s progress on a coronavirus vaccine, as other countries were already on track to signing deals for millions of doses.

Documents from June and early July last year released under the Freedom of Information Act show the company was eager to meet “at the earliest opportunity”, but received a response from the Department of Health days later offering a meeting with a first assistant secretary instead.

This has been rumoured for months, but the truth is here for all to see. Hunt’s bureaucrats snubbed Pfizer. He must have known, and probably Morrison as well. But even if he didn’t, he still must go. The unavailability of vaccines cost lives.

[arthwollipot]

Documents released under FOI clearly show that the Federal Government dragged its heels over Pfizer in 2020.

Quote:

Labor this afternoon has released documents from a Freedom of Information request relating to the Morrison government’s contacts with pharmaceutical giant Pfizer.

Regular readers will know there has been a running controversy about whether or not the Coalition dragged its heels in signing a deal with the company in 2020.

The documents released are emails between Pfizer and an official from the Department of Health in June and July last year.

The emails suggest the company was keen for a high-level meeting with the government (meaning with the minister).

The company made a request “for a formal (virtual) engagement opportunity with members of the Vaccines Taskforce to be selected at your discretion”.

Pfizer also warned the environment was changing quickly.

“I am able to make senior members of Pfizer’s global leadership team available for this discussion, particularly if the minister and/or departmental leadership can be involved. As the vaccine development landscape is moving swiftly, including through engagements with other nations, I am requesting this meeting occur at the earliest opportunity,” the company said.

The official from health, Lisa Schofield suggested an “introductory/exploratory discussion” with her instead.

Pfizer wanted the commonwealth to sign a confidential disclosure agreement before the meeting. Schofield said she had passed on that information to the health minister Greg Hunt, and she would take the meeting.

Hunt has said repeatedly the government did not drag its heels.

source

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by lionking

Hunt simply must resign:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/f...08-p58pv6.html



This has been rumoured for months, but the truth is here for all to see. Hunt’s bureaucrats snubbed Pfizer. He must have known, and probably Morrison as well. But even if he didn’t, he still must go. The unavailability of vaccines cost lives.

I would ask WHY he delayed and demurred. Was it on the direction of the PM's office? Or was he stupid enough to make the worst decision himself.

And I'm betting he thought this was going to be a nice cushy portfolio with plenty of perks when he took it! He, and Scomo, must go.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

I would ask WHY he delayed and demurred. Was it on the direction of the PM's office? Or was he stupid enough to make the worst decision himself.

And I'm betting he thought this was going to be a nice cushy portfolio with plenty of perks when he took it! He, and Scomo, must go.

Well, I reckon this is the biggest political stuff up for at least the past 5 years. People died as a result.

But all we will see is a few bureaucrats thrown under the bus. I doubt this will even lead the news tonight.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by lionking

Well, I reckon this is the biggest political stuff up for at least the past 5 years. People died as a result.

But all we will see is a few bureaucrats thrown under the bus. I doubt this will even lead the news tonight.

Absolutely. Scomo's Strollout. A lesson for the ages - don't EVER mix religion and politics with science and health. The former lose EVERY time.

[The Atheist]

Originally Posted by lionking

Hunt’s bureaucrats snubbed Pfizer.

Except it may have been a wise decision in the long term. Pfizer seems to be the fastest-fading and least-protective vaccine against delta.

[lionking]

[quote=The Atheist;13593404]

Originally Posted by lionking

Hunt’s bureaucrats snubbed Pfizer.

Except it may have been a wise decision in the long term. Pfizer seems to be the fastest-fading and least-protective vaccine against delta.

********. If Morrison and Hunt have done their job half competently the nation would have been fully vaccinated in June-July. Lives have been and still are being lost to covid. Nine deaths in NSW today.

[arthwollipot]

First Dog, as usual, nails it.

[rjh01]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Except it may have been a wise decision in the long term. Pfizer seems to be the fastest-fading and least-protective vaccine against delta.

[quote=lionking;13593408]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

********. If Morrison and Hunt have done their job half competently the nation would have been fully vaccinated in June-July. Lives have been and still are being lost to covid. Nine deaths in NSW today.

They could have said we give the AZ vaccine to everyone over 18. Far fewer people would have died and spent time in hospital with that. As long as everyone got vaccinated. It is all relative risk.

[Wildy]

Australia's FTA with the UK has the climate change rules removed. Of course our coal loving country wants to do such a thing, we have to appease the miners at the expense of the far more valuable tourism industry that kinda requires an environment to work.

We really need to vote in someone who is willing to hold other things than coal.

[psionl0]

In a bizarre ruling, the High Court has decided that anybody who hosts a Facebook page is personally liable for all of the comments posted on that page as if they posted the comments themselves. They said it was a "strict liability" case meaning that whether they knew about the comments or were able to turn comments on or off was irrelevant.

The case started with Dylan Voller who was a detainee in the NT in 2016. The ABC 4 Corners program showed images of him shackled to a chair wearing a spit hood. Mr Voller subsequently launched defamation action in the New South Wales Supreme Court against groups including The Sydney Morning Herald, The Australian and Sky News, over third-party comments about him on their Facebook pages many of which were false and malicious. The media companies argued that they could not control what was posted in a comment on a Facebook page but the High Court in a 5-2 ruling said "nuh-uh".

Quote:

The High Court found that, by running the Facebook pages, the media groups participated in communicating any defamatory material posted by third parties and were therefore responsible for the comments.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...ents/100442626

This ruling doesn't affect just media companies. Any individual who creates a Facebook page or even just a Facebook post could be held personally liable for any comment that a nut case puts on that post and deleting the comment may not be sufficient to protect the Facebook poster.

This even has MPs worried. For example, Victorian MP Brad Battin posted on his Facebook page:

Quote:

The High Court ruling today regarding Facebook comments means I have been forced to place tighter restrictions on what is able to posted on this page.

Whilst this may impact how you express yourself on Facebook, you are still able to express yourself as you wish via email brad.battin@parliament.vic.gov.au or via the comment sections on my website bradbattin.com.au.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid...50220100246311

[rjh01]

Thread on that topic here Media Companies Responsible for Facebook Comments

[arthwollipot]

Quote:

For those in New South Wales seeking some non-Covid news, we can bring you some developments that have taken place in the Christian Democratic Party.

When Fred Nile, founder of the CDP and long-time NSW upper house member, announced earlier this year that he would retire in November, the 86-year-old revealed he had picked Lyle Shelton to replace him.

Shelton, former director of the Australian Christian Lobby and prominent “No” campaigner during the same sex marriage postal survey, lived in Queensland at the time, but had moved to Sydney in anticipation of the political role.

It appears Nile has now dis-endorsed Shelton as his pick for successor, reports Eternity news. The news is the latest blow to the stability of the party – which holds just one seat in the NSW legislative assembly – after it entered receivership earlier this year.

While the CDP’s state council must still vote on the appointment, Shelton has released a statement in response to losing the support of the CDP chief.

Source, including the complete statement

[Norman Alexander]

Not all is well in paradise?

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Not all is well in paradise?

Nile is a vile, evil piece of excrement.

When are states going to rid themselves of upper houses with vermin like him sometimes having the balance of power? Qld seems to get by without such “unrepresentative swill” to repeat Keating’s ever accurate words.

Yes I know it won’t happen because the electorate will be swayed by “out of control government” rhetoric, but I’m allowed to dream

[Orphia Nay]

Just seen on Facebook: Australian Electoral Commission ad for election day jobs.

An announcement can't be too far away.

[novaphile]

Originally Posted by lionking

Nile is a vile, evil piece of excrement.

When are states going to rid themselves of upper houses with vermin like him sometimes having the balance of power? Qld seems to get by without such “unrepresentative swill” to repeat Keating’s ever accurate words.

Yes I know it won’t happen because the electorate will be swayed by “out of control government” rhetoric, but I’m allowed to dream

Probably the biggest lie that ever sprouted from Keating's lips.

Since the upper houses are elected through proportional representation, they are MORE representative, not less.

Off course Tweedle Lib and Tweedle Lab hate anything that weakens their current two-party stranglehold on power.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by novaphile

Probably the biggest lie that ever sprouted from Keating's lips.

Since the upper houses are elected through proportional representation, they are MORE representative, not less.

Off course Tweedle Lib and Tweedle Lab hate anything that weakens their current two-party stranglehold on power.

We are fortunate in WA that the Court government in the 1970s amended the state constitution so that the upper house can't be abolished without a referendum first. Otherwise, with the McGowan government's stranglehold on power, the upper house would be gone in a puff of smoke. Of course Mark McGowan knows that no referendum to abolish the upper house will ever pass.

Originally Posted by lionking

Qld seems to get by without such “unrepresentative swill”

I'm sure that Joh Bjelke Petersen would have agreed with you.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by novaphile

Probably the biggest lie that ever sprouted from Keating's lips.

Since the upper houses are elected through proportional representation, they are MORE representative, not less.

Off course Tweedle Lib and Tweedle Lab hate anything that weakens their current two-party stranglehold on power.

Complete nonsense. When Tasmania has the same number of Senators as NSW there is nothing proportional or fair about the upper house. You do know that some senators are elected, through dodgy preference deals, with only a handful of primary votes, don’t you?

[Wildy]

Originally Posted by lionking

Complete nonsense. When Tasmania has the same number of Senators as NSW there is nothing proportional or fair about the upper house. You do know that some senators are elected, through dodgy preference deals, with only a handful of primary votes, don’t you?

This complaint mostly boils down to complaining that the Senate doesn't work the same way the House of Reps works. The Senate is quite literally designed to be disproportionate in power because Senators are representatives of the states, not the people. Each state is considered equal in the Federation so they get an equal amount of representation in the Senate.

The quota system of electing Senators allows for a more proportional representation of parties because the "electorate" is the entire state so smaller parties have a greater chance of getting enough votes to be elected.

[lionking]

Originally Posted by Wildy

This complaint mostly boils down to complaining that the Senate doesn't work the same way the House of Reps works. The Senate is quite literally designed to be disproportionate in power because Senators are representatives of the states, not the people. Each state is considered equal in the Federation so they get an equal amount of representation in the Senate.

The quota system of electing Senators allows for a more proportional representation of parties because the "electorate" is the entire state so smaller parties have a greater chance of getting enough votes to be elected.

I understand all that and how Federation came about, but I have difficulty with the “will of the people” being dictated by micro parties like One Nation other associated loonies which have the balance of power.

If I had supreme power I would give the Senate a ceremonial role only.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by lionking

Complete nonsense. When Tasmania has the same number of Senators as NSW there is nothing proportional or fair about the upper house. You do know that some senators are elected, through dodgy preference deals, with only a handful of primary votes, don’t you?

You are apparently unaware that this system was ended several elections ago.

No longer is the distribution of preferences for the Senate up to the party anymore (via the "preference whisperers)"). People voting above the line now get to allocate their own preferences. States like WA and Victoria are yet to get rid of the preference whisperers though.

And last I checked, Fred Nile is a member of the NSW upper house and not the Senate so your diatribe is OT.

[rjh01]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Just seen on Facebook: Australian Electoral Commission ad for election day jobs.

An announcement can't be too far away.

The AEC must be ready for an election at any time. Them advertising for jobs is not evidence that an election is going to happen soon. In fact, an announcement of an election could happen any time between now and April 2022.

Going back to Covid 19.
In the week ending 12 September, NSW is starting to control the outbreak. The number of new cases is steady at about 1780 per day. Victoria is in trouble, the number of new cases is doubling every week or less, though they are far behind NSW. The number of new cases in the ACT has been slowly decreasing over the last two weeks.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by rjh01

The AEC must be ready for an election at any time. Them advertising for jobs is not evidence that an election is going to happen soon. In fact, an announcement of an election could happen any time between now and April 2022.

Morrison is quite determined to see out his full term.

[rjh01]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Morrison is quite determined to see out his full term.

That is a reasonable thought.
- His Facebook page's comments contain many critical comments
- He stuffed up many times.

However
- Labor's leadership is not very good.
- We are in the middle of a major disaster.
- Right-wing press are still on his side.

[arthwollipot]

More agreement with what I've been saying for ages:

Is Scott Morrison really the accidental Prime Minister? A new biography details his ascent to the top job as anything but accidental

Quote:

Much has been made of how Scott Morrison unexpectedly became Prime Minister at the end of that week of Liberal Party turmoil in August 2018.

How he was, just like Australian Olympic skater Steven Bradbury, the last man standing in a contest that had seen the other competitors fall over before the finish line.

But, as political journalist Annika Smethurst notes in her absorbing biography of Morrison, The Accidental Prime Minister, that would be to overlook a few things.

Just like the surprise gold medallist in the 2002 Winter Olympics, the man from The Shire had spent many years preparing to be in a position to succeed when his competitors tumbled.

...

There are friends who talk about the loveable suburban dad; a man lacking in pretense who has an innate understanding of how "ordinary" Australians think.

Then there are the political colleagues who take aim at the ruthlessness and scheming they insist marked his rise in Canberra.

In the words of one unnamed minister quoted in the book, Scott Morrison is "volatile, sly and untrustworthy".

...

Smethurst then proceeds to chart what she describes as a "relentless pursuit of power" that took Morrison all the way from the backbench to The Lodge.

Not formally aligned with any particular Liberal Party faction, Morrison always favoured pragmatism over ideology as he climbed through the ranks.

But underlying it all was a ruthless streak that sometimes got him into trouble.

...

There were also questions over how Morrison reconciled this hard-line stance in opposition, and later as immigration minister, with his Christian faith.

We learn, through confidants, how Morrison first raised the idea of getting rid of Tony Abbott within 12 months of the Coalition's 2013 election win, and how he clashed with Treasurer Joe Hockey.

One long-serving Liberal minister describes Morrison as a "predator intent on dominance".

Morrison threw his support behind Malcolm Turnbull because it would give him the best chance of taking over from Hockey and move him "one step closer to the prime ministership".

At the risk of being accused of trolling psionl0, this is textbook dominionism. That's how I reconcile his hard-line stance with his Christian faith. I think if more people knew about dominionism, more people would be worried about it.

Also, there's this:

Quote:

Smethurst – who has worked with News Corp and now the Nine newspapers — also gives us some revealing insights into Morrison's working relationships with women.

She says a "common sentiment expressed by female colleagues was that they felt excluded, overlooked and even ignored while Morrison was in the room".

One female Coalition frontbencher goes as far as describing the Prime Minister as a "deeply ingrained chauvinist".

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

More agreement with what I've been saying for ages:

Is Scott Morrison really the accidental Prime Minister? A new biography details his ascent to the top job as anything but accidental

At the risk of being accused of trolling psionl0, this is textbook dominionism. That's how I reconcile his hard-line stance with his Christian faith. I think if more people knew about dominionism, more people would be worried about it.

Also, there's this:

Funny how you are determined to bring that word in every time. For any other politician doing the same thing it would be called "political ambition" (assuming there is any truth to this speculative article).

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by psionl0

Funny how you are determined to bring that word in every time. For any other politician doing the same thing it would be called "political ambition" (assuming there is any truth to this speculative article).

Other politicians are not strongly affiliated with a church that is known to teach dominionism.

Other church denominations do not specifically teach "we must get our people into positions of temporal power for the good of the world and because God commands it". Pentecostalism has been known to. The church that Morrison belongs to and which holds such a self-admittedly high place in his life has been known to preach this.

We've been through this before. You didn't believe me then and I very much doubt you'll believe me now, but it's true. Putting your head in the sand won't change that.

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Other politicians are not strongly affiliated with a church that is known to teach dominionism.

So what? The ambitious ones all do the same thing.

Your theory that Scumo is "altruistically" being ruthless for the sake of his "dominionist" beliefs instead of satisfying his naked lust for power (as other politicians would do) has zero foundation. It is pure "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" fantasizing.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by psionl0

So what? The ambitious ones all do the same thing.

Your theory that Scumo is "altruistically" being ruthless for the sake of his "dominionist" beliefs instead of satisfying his naked lust for power (as other politicians would do) has zero foundation. It is pure "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" fantasizing.

Then why aren't there books about these other politicians that all do the same thing? I'll tell you why: because Morrison is unusual. He's unusual enough for it to be notable. He's not like other ambitious politicians, and it has been noticed.

Sure - I do not know for sure that his unusually notable ambition is due to dominionist beliefs. It may be, it may not. But I think that there is enough correlation there for it to be plausible. He is a member of a church that has been known to teach dominion theology - a belief system that is not taught in Catholic or Anglican churches by the way, which account for pretty much every other religious politician in the country today.

I'm not sure that "altruistically" was the word you were looking for there, by the way.

[Norman Alexander]

It's the Church of Scomoism. It is what he and T**** have in common: Self-interest alone drives him.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

It's the Church of Scomoism. It is what he and T**** have in common: Self-interest alone drives him.

No, I disagree. If I am right about his beliefs, the Kingdom of God is what drives him. He is not, like the ex-President, a pathological narcissist - or rather, he does not appear to show the same diagnostic criteria.

[Norman Alexander]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

No, I disagree. If I am right about his beliefs, the Kingdom of God is what drives him. He is not, like the ex-President, a pathological narcissist - or rather, he does not appear to show the same diagnostic criteria.

Hmmm, I would tend to think that Scomo likes that his church doctrine supports his own belief that anything and everything goes when clawing his way over the bodies of others to the top of the greasy pole. It gives him religious license to advance his own predilections to treat others so badly.

[arthwollipot]

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Hmmm, I would tend to think that Scomo likes that his church doctrine supports his own belief that anything and everything goes when clawing his way over the bodies of others to the top of the greasy pole. It gives him religious license to advance his own predilections to treat others so badly.

Wikipedia says that he was raised Presbyterian, which partly merged into the Uniting church when he was a child, but that he later turned Pentecostal. It doesn't say when he did that. Since the Uniting church is the socially progressive one that I have friends in, it may be that Morrison switched to the Pentecostal church because it more supported and fostered his agenda.

Incidentally, Wikipedia also supports some of the things I've been saying about Pentecostalism:

Quote:

Morrison is Australia's first Pentecostal prime minister. He thinks misuse of social media is the work of "the evil one" and practises the Christian tradition of the "laying on of hands" while working. He said in a speech to the Australian Christian Churches conference in April 2021 that he believes he was elected to do God's work, although he later said that his comments were mischaracterised and that they were meant to reflect his belief that "whatever you do every day ... is part of your Christian service".

[psionl0]

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Then why aren't there books about these other politicians that all do the same thing?