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Tags bullying incidents , bullying issues , Finland incidents , murder incidents

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Old 23rd February 2021, 05:17 AM   #41
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It could be manipulated. For example in the hypothetical school I run, our anti-bullying technique is if someone reports bullying, they get slapped and told to go back to class, wimp.

Reports of bullying are at an all time low!
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Old 23rd February 2021, 05:23 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Do we have any experts who are actually capable of lowering rates of bullying?
Historically school age bullying was like most abuse children suffered not really something to be acknowledged never mind dealt with a systematic manner.

It is only since the 1980s that society has started to acknowledge and attempted to reduce the harm caused by bullying. Indeed I would argue that historically complaining about bullying was seen as a failure of character of the victim, and sadly we still see remnants of that attitude today.

I would assume that there are statistics kept so we can see what effect different strategies have achieved or not. Obviously one of the issues may be that we simply don't have an accurate picture of the level of bullying that does go on.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 05:26 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Historically school age bullying was like most abuse children suffered not really something to be acknowledged never mind dealt with a systematic manner.

It is only since the 1980s that society has started to acknowledge and attempted to reduce the harm caused by bullying. Indeed I would argue that historically complaining about bullying was seen as a failure of character of the victim, and sadly we still see remnants of that attitude today.

I would assume that there are statistics kept so we can see what effect different strategies have achieved or not. Obviously one of the issues may be that we simply don't have an accurate picture of the level of bullying that does go on.
Yeah, I think all of that is accurate, particularly the last sentence.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 06:34 AM   #44
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This seems a good starting point: https://www.ditchthelabel.org/research-papers/

Organisation setup to help reduce bullying for under 25s. Looks like they've been doing regular surveys/research. Their 2020 report: https://www.ditchthelabel.org/resear...g-survey-2020/

The report covers: "THIS REPORT DRAWS ON THE EXPERIENCES OF 13,387 PEOPLE AGED 12-18."

That is secondary education in the UK.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 06:47 AM   #45
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Cool, thanks Darat!

It looks like they've only been doing this survey for 8 years so far, so hard to say much about long term trends, but there could be enough to see something there.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 10:29 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
This seems a good starting point: https://www.ditchthelabel.org/research-papers/

Organisation setup to help reduce bullying for under 25s. Looks like they've been doing regular surveys/research. Their 2020 report: https://www.ditchthelabel.org/resear...g-survey-2020/

The report covers: "THIS REPORT DRAWS ON THE EXPERIENCES OF 13,387 PEOPLE AGED 12-18."

That is secondary education in the UK.
Incredible. How to deal with this:

Quote:
This report highlights that bullying as a whole has increased by 25% year-on-year. It could be argued that political fall-out is a significant contributor, with 1-in-3 of the young people surveyed saying that they believe the behaviour of politicians influences how people treat each other at school.

When asked about loneliness, a quarter of the young people we surveyed told us that they feel lonely all of the time. A sad irony in a society that is apparently “more connected than ever before”.

Is social media really making us happier? Our previous research uncovered that social media was a leading contributor towards low self-esteem and poor body image in young people, this report continues to identify that the half of those bullied felt they were targeted because of attitudes towards their physical appearance. 14% of respondents never like themselves, with a further 24% saying that they do but only rarely.

When asked broadly about their mental health, 42% told us that they have battled with anxiety, 25% with depression and 21% with suicidal thoughts. School pressures, exams, body image, feelings of loneliness and bereavement were referenced as the leading contributors to poor mental health.
You would never guess from the 'happy' images associated with adolescents.

There is a school bully project in Finland called 'Kiva Koulu' (kiva: lovely, nice): = 'Nice Schools', about creating an atmosphere of emotional intelligence. They are now discussing a name change as they believe it promotes a false image of school experience for many schoolkids.

From wiki [Google translate]

Quote:
KiVa School is a program of measures aimed at reducing and preventing school bullying . The program was launched in Finland in autumn 2007, initially in 39 schools (approximately 4,000 students). [1] The project expanded nationwide in the academic year 2009-2010. About 90 per cent of Finnish basic education schools registered as users of the program , [2] but when the program introduced license fees in 2016, slightly less than half of Finnish primary schools participated in 2019. [3]

Preventive measures play an important role in KiVa School. KiVa lessons cover group activities and group pressure, emotions and their regulation, as well as the identification of bullying and the active defense of those who have been bullied. In addition to prevention, the program provides tools for investigating cases of bullying. Fact-finding discussions focus on the discussion with the bully and the bully separately, as well as the organization of follow-up talks to ensure that the bully has actually stopped [4] . The program aims to provide concrete tools to address the issue of bullying in lessons and to address emerging cases of bullying. [2]

The program has been developed at the University of Turku with funding from the Ministry of Education and the current Business Finland under the leadership of Christina Salmivall , Professor of Psychology, and Elisa Poskiparra, a specialist. [3]
Yet we still have something that could come out of Lord of the Flies in Helsinki.
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Old 23rd February 2021, 10:54 AM   #47
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What has shocked people is the fact that the victim was known to have been a target for bullies since kindergarten, often accosted in the school corridors and his school cap thrown about. The KiVa Koulu model, which is also similar to the one in the UK and elsewhere, is a type of counselling, where an investigation is carried out, the bully apologises for his or her behaviour and everybody is happy. However, it doesn't appear to solve much and now it is being suggested that any violence, assault or robbery of school bags, sports gear, vandalism, defacing the victim's property, should automatically be reported to the police instead, for the older age groups.

Quote:
It was not known at SCHOOL that the victim had begun to move with a group of friends, including three boys now suspected of murder. The two suspects had attended the same primary school with the victim, but at school they had not moved together.

- If we had known who the victim was dealing with, we would have intervened. We knew two of the factors. They were very different with the victim, the interviewee says.

According to the school staff member, the victim's close relatives would also have intervened in this “friendship” if they had known about it.

According to police, the role of the victim in the group of friends was to be the target of bullying. The bullying turned violent. Eventually, it got the hallmarks of sadistic violence.

- The victim has been considered a “guy” but at the same time bullied in different ways. When I use the term bullying, I mean repeated and systematic activity that can have serious physical and mental consequences for the victim, Investigation Director Marko Forss stated earlier in a police release.

According to the school staff interviewed, the victim's self-esteem was very low for many reasons. It could have contributed to a situation in which he has succumbed to horrific bullying.

- The victim obeyed his bullies to the last. How does this feel? Shocking.
Ilta-Sanomat [google translate]
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Old 24th February 2021, 02:51 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Perhaps I'm misreading this, but you seem awfully disappointed that it turned out the perpetrators were white.
Apropos of this, here's the type of stuff the far right put out:

Quote:
Koskelan tapauksessa murhasta epäillyt ovat joidenkin asiantuntijoiden mukaan somalitaustaisia, käräjäoikeuden juttulistassa olleiden nimien perusteella. Mitenkähän uhri, oliko hänkin?

[google translate]: In the case of Koskela, the suspects in the murder are, according to some experts, of Somali background, based on the names on the district court's list of cases. Anyway, the victim, was he too?
https://twitter.com/truthcommissio/s...391327235?s=20

It seems Somalis are the scapegoat for the racists, including Kookemus candidate (conservatives) Miia Autero, of Espoo, who had a rant about how she didn't mind her daughter mixing with children of Estonian or Russian background but the Somalis were disruptive etc., etc [insert your own racist stereotype] so her daughter took her dad to school in order that the Somali children could see that he was big and strong and that they were not to mess with her.

Pathetic, isn't it?
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Old 24th February 2021, 11:32 AM   #49
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In Cold Blood

Pretrial material released on Monday in Helsinki to the press is designed to consider whether the killing of the 15-year-old victim by two 16-year-olds and one 15-16 year-old (the date of the killing was 4 Dec 2020, his birthday) was premeditated. The prosecution are arguing, it was a cold-blooded premeditated murder citing:
  • text messages between the three planning the crime in advance
  • the plan was to invite the victim to the youngest suspect's 16th birthday party under the guise of friendly celebration
  • they planned to buy some Captain Morgan Whisky and cans of beer
  • they planned to get the young victim drunk and then beat him to death (although they didn't use those words)
  • After chatting together in a friendly way, the assault began, with Birthday Boy kicking the victim, A, in the legs
  • the other two joined in raining punches to his face and body
  • when he fell to the ground the bullies forced his mouth open and poured whisky in it, to the victim's protests
  • one of the bullies had to leave the scene for a while; the other two sent him Snap Chat pictures of them beating him
  • Whilst the victim was on the ground, the oldest boy kicked him in the head
  • They dragged him to his feet and led him to the park by the hospital where he was found
  • they then continued the assault by hitting him with a metal bar over the head and ribs
  • the boy who had left, received the messages and returned, immediately twice hitting the victim in the face with his fists
  • the oldest boy stood on the nearby stage and jumped on to the victim's head several times from a height
  • the victim's sports trousers were torn off and a firework inserted between his buttocks
  • the bullies set light to this firework and filmed it on Snap Chat. The older boy told police the three then shook hands with each other after the explosion.
  • the three of them urinated on the victim's head
  • they had thrown empty beer cans at his head, the oldest boy throwing a full one
  • he was beaten, kicked and hit in the ribs, and his genitals trampled on
  • when the boys had finished they left him and confirmed he was still moving
  • despite being badly injured and the intervening night very cold, they did nothing to fetch help
  • the older boy said he didn't want to tell his mother until after the weekend
  • the three then sent some messages expressing remorse which one of the boys confirmed had been written to make them look better (knowing that the police would see them, thus manipulatiing the police perception aftermath)
  • the same boys and one other had also robbed and assaulted the boy three or four times previously since August 2020

Quote:
The pre-trial material on the Koskela murder shows what kind of communication the boys accused of the murder had before they met the victim killed on 4 December.

The boys ’Snapchat picture chat conversations show that young people are considering ways to get alcoholic beverages. Among other things, the talk was about "biss" or beer and "morgan" or Captain Morgan's branded rum.

At the same time, there was a discussion about how the victim should be beaten again.

- Iha hies. Begin to sit beating * the victim's name * ku it is almost a plot of its liquor, one of the accused writes.

The other party to the conversation confirmed the same plans and notes that the victim is "being beaten to beat". He tells his friend to hit the victim with a "straight face" if this doesn't bring a "gift" to the meeting. The gift apparently refers to the alcohol the boys are supposed to consume during the evening.
MTV - google translate

The defence are claiming that the boys had not intended to kill the victim. However, they cannot claim the boy died of hypothermia as it has been established that the cause of death was as a result of the multiple injuries (a page long list) that was sustained during the attack.

Quote:
Rib fractures, cerebral hemorrhage and contusion are officially the cause of death
At least another lung had erupted.
The cause of muscle death has been fractures of several ribs, a cerebral concussion, and small subarachnoid hemorrhages caused by an injury.
A builder only found the body by chance on Monday as he went over by the park to relieve himself but saw the corpse on the ground by the stage, naked from the waist down.

Two of the three boys had returned on Saturday morning to clear away the beer cans and exchange more messages, yet just left the victim there the way he was found.

The oldest boy is also accused of assaulting the two younger ones.

The parents seem to include a teacher, a physiotherapist, an actress and a well-known business guru.

The mother of the boy who didn't want to ruin his weekend but told her he had 'done something terrible' also rang the police and thus the three were arrested and charged. A fourth boy was arrested and charged for his participation in the earlier incidents.
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Old 26th February 2021, 12:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Pretrial material released on Monday in Helsinki to the press is designed to consider whether the killing of the 15-year-old victim by two 16-year-olds and one 15-16 year-old (the date of the killing was 4 Dec 2020, his birthday) was premeditated. The prosecution are arguing, it was a cold-blooded premeditated murder citing:
  • text messages between the three planning the crime in advance
  • the plan was to invite the victim to the youngest suspect's 16th birthday party under the guise of friendly celebration
  • they planned to buy some Captain Morgan Whisky and cans of beer
  • they planned to get the young victim drunk and then beat him to death (although they didn't use those words)
  • After chatting together in a friendly way, the assault began, with Birthday Boy kicking the victim, A, in the legs
  • the other two joined in raining punches to his face and body
  • when he fell to the ground the bullies forced his mouth open and poured whisky in it, to the victim's protests
  • one of the bullies had to leave the scene for a while; the other two sent him Snap Chat pictures of them beating him
  • Whilst the victim was on the ground, the oldest boy kicked him in the head
  • They dragged him to his feet and led him to the park by the hospital where he was found
  • they then continued the assault by hitting him with a metal bar over the head and ribs
  • the boy who had left, received the messages and returned, immediately twice hitting the victim in the face with his fists
  • the oldest boy stood on the nearby stage and jumped on to the victim's head several times from a height
  • the victim's sports trousers were torn off and a firework inserted between his buttocks
  • the bullies set light to this firework and filmed it on Snap Chat. The older boy told police the three then shook hands with each other after the explosion.
  • the three of them urinated on the victim's head
  • they had thrown empty beer cans at his head, the oldest boy throwing a full one
  • he was beaten, kicked and hit in the ribs, and his genitals trampled on
  • when the boys had finished they left him and confirmed he was still moving
  • despite being badly injured and the intervening night very cold, they did nothing to fetch help
  • the older boy said he didn't want to tell his mother until after the weekend
  • the three then sent some messages expressing remorse which one of the boys confirmed had been written to make them look better (knowing that the police would see them, thus manipulatiing the police perception aftermath)
  • the same boys and one other had also robbed and assaulted the boy three or four times previously since August 2020

MTV - google translate
There are no words to adequately describe the pure evil of these three. IMO they can never be rehabilitated from that level of depravity

They knew exactly what they were doing - they planned and carried out an execution by a purposefully violent, excruciatingly painful means. Lock them up, throw away the key and forget about them. Let them rot away for the rest of their lives in jail - the public at large will never be safe if they are allowed out.
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Old 26th February 2021, 01:05 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
There are no words to adequately describe the pure evil of these three. IMO they can never be rehabilitated from that level of depravity

They knew exactly what they were doing - they planned and carried out an execution by a purposefully violent, excruciatingly painful means. Lock them up, throw away the key and forget about them. Let them rot away for the rest of their lives in jail - the public at large will never be safe if they are allowed out.

My thoughts exactly. There appears to be no motive at all other than sadistic cruelty. I understand that one of them comes from a wealthy family with a big house and wears the latest designer clothes. One has a father who is said to be a journalist at YLE (the Finnish equivalent of BBC).

How can the parents be so unaware?
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Old 26th February 2021, 02:17 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Let them rot away for the rest of their lives in jail - the public at large will never be safe if they are allowed out.
Not happening in Finland, the maximum penalty for murder is 12yrs as they are underage and the custom is to serve only a certain proportion of that time. As a general principle I totally support our mild sentences and leniency especially for 1st time offenders. This case sounds like there is one person that is pretty much permanently irredeemable likely to due to a combination of genetics and circumstances who should probably never be let back to society and then two followers that might be able to be saved. Anyway, I know that this way too liberal thinking for most people.

This is what I wrote in my blog inspired by this case and the tabloid and social media storm of moral righteousness surrounding it:

I think I have had now my fill of that debased and sadistic - even more sadistic than the original - semi-Victorian morality that oozes from almost every pore of this primitive and cruel society. There is no right to moral righteousness for anyone. When we see monsters, we see ourselves. We all would do unspeakable things in right circumstances. Not in identical circumstances depending on our luck of birth and genetics. Some are damaged from birth, fatally inverted already then. By far more have their inversions later as basically demanded by the hateful structures of society and civilization and the individual circumstance rising from these primitive structures. This is not to say that many people would not be permanently deformed. There are many such irredeemable people and they should have no access ever to the general society. But no "punishments", no moral superiority, just as humane precautions as possible. And no right whatsoever to righteousness.
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Old 26th February 2021, 02:57 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Not happening in Finland, the maximum penalty for murder is 12yrs as they are underage and the custom is to serve only a certain proportion of that time. As a general principle I totally support our mild sentences and leniency especially for 1st time offenders. This case sounds like there is one person that is pretty much permanently irredeemable likely to due to a combination of genetics and circumstances who should probably never be let back to society and then two followers that might be able to be saved. Anyway, I know that this way too liberal thinking for most people.

This is what I wrote in my blog inspired by this case and the tabloid and social media storm of moral righteousness surrounding it:

I think I have had now my fill of that debased and sadistic - even more sadistic than the original - semi-Victorian morality that oozes from almost every pore of this primitive and cruel society. There is no right to moral righteousness for anyone. When we see monsters, we see ourselves. We all would do unspeakable things in right circumstances. Not in identical circumstances depending on our luck of birth and genetics. Some are damaged from birth, fatally inverted already then. By far more have their inversions later as basically demanded by the hateful structures of society and civilization and the individual circumstance rising from these primitive structures. This is not to say that many people would not be permanently deformed. There are many such irredeemable people and they should have no access ever to the general society. But no "punishments", no moral superiority, just as humane precautions as possible. And no right whatsoever to righteousness.
First of all, the boy who was the most violent, is not necessarily the boy who was the worst. In law it is to do with intentionality. There is the other boy who was popular and who seems to have planned it, with the other two boys vying for his approval. For the other two boys, he seems to have been their only friend. One boy didn't even know the victim (the most violent one). However, it was the victim's oldest friend from early childhood - their parents may have been in business together - who started the violence and even as he forcibly poured strong alcohol into the victim's mouth, tried to persuade (deceive) him that, 'I am on your side...'

The chattering classes are focussed on the 'lack of empathy'. How much of it is due to the mindless violence in young adult Netflix series or computer games, not to mention the fashion of capturing everything on Snap Chat? These boys thought beating up a 'friend' made for good social media sharing.

Which one of the boys is the true psychopath, too dangerous to ever be let out except under heavy licence in perhaps old age?

The one who - like perhaps Charles Manson - manipulated young teenage naive minds into doing his cold-blooded will? The one who was happy to use a metal rod in an obscene way to a boy one year younger - whom he hardly knew - and then strike him hard with it (having brought it along in advance)? Or the one who was a friend from childhood who betrayed him by pretending to be a friend and inviting him to join him in his sixteenth birthday celebration? This latter boy seems to have been seeking the approval of the first, Alpha, boy, with he, too, almost a year younger than the other two. It is said this was the boy who told his (single) mum the following Monday.

Two of these boys would do it again.
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Old 26th February 2021, 03:09 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
First of all, the boy who was the most violent, is not necessarily the boy who was the worst. In law it is to do with intentionality. There is the other boy who was popular and who seems to have planned it, with the other two boys vying for his approval. For the other two boys, he seems to have been their only friend. One boy didn't even know the victim (the most violent one).
Well, at the moment versions and interpretations vary. In the well known Heino case where teenage boys murdered a married couple, it was widely seen that there was one quite psychopathic manipulator and two weak followers, and based on media many people seem to think that this pattern was repeated here. Though it might be that this disgusting, totally abhorrent deed was the result of all three meeting. Quite possibly, with any of the three missing, the end result would not have been a murder.
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Old 27th February 2021, 03:32 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Well, at the moment versions and interpretations vary. In the well known Heino case where teenage boys murdered a married couple, it was widely seen that there was one quite psychopathic manipulator and two weak followers, and based on media many people seem to think that this pattern was repeated here. Though it might be that this disgusting, totally abhorrent deed was the result of all three meeting. Quite possibly, with any of the three missing, the end result would not have been a murder.

The main perp in the Heino case - who was the only one convicted of murder and appears to be already out of prison - was motivated by money and revenge for a perceived slight (in being ripped off over mobile phone sell and buy), not to mention the fact his family are millionaires. Certainly, that guy shows clear psychopathic symptoms: manipulative of others, machiavellian, cunning and calculating (disposing of the bodies in suticases and throwing them in the sea), getting two gullible young lads to do the actual killing, no doubt in thrall of his wealth and popularity, not to mention educated charm and good manners.

There is another case of a 15-year-old girl in Seinäjoki who, in a fit of insane jealously over a boy she was infatuated with, stabbed another girl over sixteen times in the chest, in 2015. She got just nine years and seems to be already out of prison, as youth offenders only have to do two-thirds, by law. Looking at the details of her crime, one could say there are clear signs of psychosis to let jealousy lead you to the slaying of another innocent young girl, yet, she was imprisoned, not hospitalised.

In this current Koskela case, one of the boys, the golden 'popular' boy B (not boy A, the rich violent one) actually texted to boy C, the youngest, the victim's oldest friend, 'We're in Finland so we can get away with it', or words to that effect. Machiavellian, or what?! He knows two of them will get just two to three years and hopes that Boy A will get the twelve years for murder, out in nine.*

What has Finland become when teenage thrill killers know they will be treated with gentle kid gloves? There was a time murderers were executed by an axe to the neck!


*Boy B has been caught scheming with Boy C in the aftermath to put all the blame on Boy A. This is because these messages are afterwards, designed for police eyes, yet Boy B and Boy C managed to block boy A and remove the locations immediately after, so they knew how to 'get rid'. As a measure of how cold-bloodedly calculating this boy B is, he claims he is only responsible for punching the victim in the face twice and his interrogation interview is said to be full of 'I don't recall', 'I don't remember', or 'I don't know', in comparison to Boy A, who has tried to be as full and and helpful as possible to the police, giving them a detailed description.**

**Notandum: Disclaimer: this is just internet chatter and might be complete ********.
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:03 AM   #56
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Trial Resumes Monday 1 Mar 2021

So today the hearing resumes.

Quote:
The trial of Helsinki's Koskela teenage death ends this week. The district court will hear the oldest teenage boy on Monday and will still meet for final statements on Wednesday.

Monday's session began in camera.

- The hearing will probably take hours, regional prosecutor Satu Pomoell estimates in the district court.
The prosecutors are aiming to prove the minimal level of probability: that the accused ought to and should have been aware that the level of violence they used against the victim very likely would have led to his death.

Quote:
In addition to the unity of the act, it is crucial in the trial whether the defendants intentionally killed the victim. The prosecutor confirmed on Monday morning that the trial was about so-called probabilistic intent .

- Of course, it is the core issues, which has been their purpose. The thing is probably around proving the lowest degree of intent.

The statement means that the prosecutor does not allege that the boys had an explicit intention to die the victim. According to the prosecutor, the boys must have understood that death was a fairly probable consequence of their actions. The premise is sufficient to prosecute murder.

The prosecutor's claim of direct intent to kill would not necessarily succeed in court. Among other things, the boys have said that the victim was left alive at the crime scene. In the case, some respondents admit, for example, aggravated assault and aggravated death.
One of the boys or more claims to have seen the victim's hand move (one hand was deliberately broken by boy A, the one who barely knew the victim but did know boy B from riippukoulu (confirmation class for sixteen-year-olds)). Boy B, seems to be at the centre of the Venn diagram, knowing all three of the boys, the victim and his best friend Boy C, from primary school. That the victim's hand moved could easily have been an after death movement, which is not at all uncommon. In any case, as of the time the defendants walked off, leaving the victim out in the freezing 3°C temperature, the victim had had his personal bodily region so badly mutilated his testicles would have had to have been removed even had the boys attempted to save him.

The stunning part is, that 6th Dec, just after the 4 Dec 2020 slaying, was Finland's biggest day of the year, after Christmas, Independence Day, where traditionally everybody stocks up on food to watch television all evening as the movers and shakers, together with the war time veterans, all dressed in their finest clothes shake hands with the President or are honoured with medals and awards. So, the Boy who waited until AFTER the weekend before telling his mother, really didn't care, callously and coldly deciding he'd enjoy the national holiday instead, first, whilst his victim lay in the cold and dark, with his arms spread out, as reported by the builder who discovered him on the Monday.

There have been no applications for bail, which would have been refused anyway, due to the aggravated nature of the crime and no objection to the order for a psychological assessment of the defendants.

Quote:
By Monday morning, two of the victim’s childhood friends had shared their views of what was happening in the hall. The pre-trial report revealed that one of them had burst into tears after the act when he told about the events. The boys still deny the murder and their involvement in the most serious violence in general.

- Respondents were willing to find out and did well given their age and level of development. I am satisfied with the way the process has proceeded, the prosecutor said.
ILTA-LEHTI [Google translate]


Of course, one does have to bear in mind that these are still growing adolescents. Their ability to grasp the enormity of what they did would not be at the same level of a worldly wise adult who does understand the meaning of consequences and the permanence of death, together with the deep sense of loss experienced by the deceased's nearest and dearest. The boys likely saw it as a huge joke, even, although of course, many criminals who go on to be psychopathic cold-blooded killers did shows signs of sadism and cruelty in childhood. For example, poisoner Graham Young, or child killer Mary Bell, who strangled pigeons. So we do have to realise that these are undeveloped young adults with an ipso facto flawed sense of responsibility and balance it against an incredibly sadistic act against a 'friend' and to ensure justice for the victim as well as making allowances for them.
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:24 AM   #57
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Reading about the mutilations, I suffered a fantasy of a feral pack of drink-maddened little bastards using their puukkot on a lone and helpless child.

No more details, please.
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Old 1st March 2021, 09:03 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Reading about the mutilations, I suffered a fantasy of a feral pack of drink-maddened little bastards using their puukkot on a lone and helpless child.

No more details, please.
Putki in this case, not puukko.

Pictured: released police photo of the supposed metal rod used in the crime.
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Old 1st March 2021, 09:40 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Reading about the mutilations, I suffered a fantasy of a feral pack of drink-maddened little bastards using their puukkot on a lone and helpless child.

No more details, please.
I said please, now didn't I?

I meant it.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 04:06 AM   #60
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Wednesday 3 March 2021 - Final Day of Trial: Final Submissions

The court in the Koskela killing case winds up today with the Defence and the Prosecution giving their closing statements. The Prosecutor demands long prison sentences (12 years is the maximum for this age group, so they will still only be 29 on release if this is happens). The Defence demands immediate release - presumably on bail whilst the judges deliberate for a few weeks in a reserved judgment and sentencing - which has been summarily rejected. Problem is the boys will be in danger from an angry public so are likely safer inside.

Quote:
Prosecutor demands long prison sentences for Koskela teen murder defenders - one of the boys demanded his immediate release, the court refused

A cruel crime that attracted a lot of attention took place in Koskela, Helsinki, at the beginning of December.

All the accused were 16 years old at the time of the crimes, but some of them have turned 17 so far.
MTV

This is a difficult one because one of the boys committed the worst violence, boy A. One of them used deception and betrayal to lure the victim, boy C - a friend from early childhood - to the planned attack, and which was planned by the boy who used the least violence, boy B. Boy B knew from a previous assault on the victim that the more violent boy, Boy A, was capable of extreme aggression, so you could say Boy A was invited by svengali Boy B, to do the worst. Does his make boy B less culpable than Boy A or even boy C?

I am not sure if today's session is open to the public or closed again. Surely it is in the public interest to hear due process.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 04:39 AM   #61
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Good account of the hearing today by ILTA-LEHTI.

To sum up, the verdict and sentencing will be on 24 March 2021. The prosecutor demands 9years and six months for Boy B, 12 years for Boy A, and 11 years for Boy C.

Here are some excerpts of the legal arguments here:


Quote:
At 9:15 the session begins

At the beginning of the hearing, the alternative charges presented by the prosecutor and the answers to them are read.
Alternative charges include aggravated assault and aggravated death penalty. Alternative charges for one boy include aiding and abetting murder and aiding and abetting abuse.


9:20 a.m. Closing remarks begin

The final statements will now be read. Beginning deals with assault charges related to the other two accused violence perpetrated by the eldest boy. Evidence of this is, among other things, messages between the accused and medical statements.


9:30 a.m .: The prosecutor explains the consensus

The prosecutor is now going through a consensual process. Consensus can also be formed during the course of action. Central to this is knowledge of the crimes that are going to be committed. The prosecutor brings up the term "domination of the act," which means that everyone has been involved in the act and in control of the situation. In the opinion of the prosecutor, everyone has contributed to the act.

9:35 a.m .: Prosecutor presents messages

So now we are dealing with a murder charge. The prosecutor, on the other hand, reads messages between the accused, in which, according to the prosecutor, violence and watering of the victim are planned. The posts talk about beating and beating. The prosecutor describes the use of the words "beat" and "hack" in the messages, which means that the violence has been serious.

"Niidii will beat (the victim) tomorrow," one message said, among other things.

The messages also talked about the victim's "coldness", which, according to the prosecutor, indicates that the perpetrators knew that the victim had had a cold in the past because of light clothing. The prosecutor notes that despite this, the defendants left the victim lying out in the cold air in an uninformed state.
9:45 a.m .: The prosecutor explains why the act is murder

Quote:
The prosecutor now explains why he thinks the act is murder. The key is that the act is particularly cruel and cruel to the prosecutor.
The prosecutor again describes the violence inflicted on the victim and its seriousness.
The prosecutor talks about the probability of probability, ie that the prosecutor believes that the perpetrators must have considered the death of the victim as a probable consequence. The prosecutor does not claim that this was intentional, that is, that the killing was the express intention of the accused.

9:54 a.m .: Loud defense of the victim's relatives

The victim's assistant agrees with the prosecutors' allegations. He stresses that all the boys were involved in the violence. Without their actions, the victim would not have died. Everything the respondents themselves have said is very serious violence and clear humiliation. In addition, the victim was left alone to die.

“The allegations that it would not have been entirely clear that the victim would die in that situation are utterly outrageous,” the relatives ’legal counsel says.

10 a.m.: Respondents' final statements

We now turn to the final statements of the respondents. First up is the defense of the youngest boy. His lawyer Jarkko Jaatela wants to present in the final statement something related to health information that is confidential. Therefore, the sound will be cut off at some point in the media hall when these things come up.

The defense reiterates that the boy admits an alternative charge, namely aggravated assault and aggravated death.

The boy largely accepts the prosecutor's description of the violence he committed. However, the defense argues that the eldest boy was responsible for the most serious violence, and the youngest boy also sometimes tried to reassure the eldest. According to the defense of the youngest boy, it is a question of whether the youngest boy can also be held responsible for the violence perpetrated by the eldest boy. It is undisputed that the eldest boy committed the most serious violence against the victim.

However, the youngest boy does not admit that it was an intentional act. According to the defense, he did not accept or be involved in the most serious violence perpetrated against the victim. In addition, the boy's defense notes that the victim did not die until several hours after the accused left the scene
.

10:19 a.m .: The defense of the youngest boy continues

The defense of the youngest boy is still in the voice. He points out that when considering what the perpetrator should have understood from the consequences of the act, the young age of the accused must also be taken into account.

The defense also takes the view that it has not emerged that such serious violence was intended to be directed at the victim in advance.

The defense also alleges that the youngest boy tried to reassure the oldest boy but failed. The seriousness of the violence came as a surprise to the youngest boy, according to the defense. The defense therefore considers that there was no consensus, as an attempt was made to prevent and reassure the eldest boy.


10:58 a.m .: The session resumes

The sitting is resumed. The defense of the second eldest boy now gets into the voice. So this is a boy who has only admitted beating. He is defended by lawyer Dani Palviainen. He emphasizes that defendants cannot be required to understand an adult - let alone a criminal lawyer - about the consequences of the serious violence in question. According to him, the respondents have thought that the victim will at least get up on his own and go home.

The defense argues that the serious violence began after the second eldest boy had left the scene.

The defense reiterates its claim that the boy had hit the victim twice when he returned to the scene, and he is innocent of all other violence.
According to the defense, the boy has not played any part in the violence that has caused the death of the victim.
"Nothing he has done since arriving at the scene has contributed to the crime."

According to the defense, the real state of the matter only became clear to the boy the next morning when he listened to the voice message sent by the youngest boy. The youngest boy had visited the scene and realized the victim was dying.


11:20 a.m.: The eldest boy's defense out loud

The defense of the eldest boy can now give his final statement. The eldest boy is defended by lawyer Seppo Heikkilä.
He points out that other defendants have shifted responsibility to the oldest accused. Against this background, he believes that the accusations of the eldest boy of assaulting the other two boys should be rejected. There is a word against the word.

Then we talk about the murder charge. According to the defense, the beating with an iron pipe has come to light as told by the co-defendants, ie the two younger defendants. The defense of the eldest boy calls into question the reliability of these accounts precisely because, he says, an attempt has been made to roll the blame on the necks of the eldest boy.

"It is reasonable to think that my principal has been causing major injuries. It is not really possible to know whether they have all been caused by my principal," the lawyer says.

The defense's view is that no act has been used in the act in such a way that the defendant would have understood in the circumstances that the events would lead to death.


11:41 a.m .: Prosecutors' Sanctions Statement

Final statements have been received. The following is a discussion of punitive sanctions and prescribing for a state of mind examination.

Prosecutors point out that the accused could be sentenced to up to 15 years in prison. Under the age of 18, the penalty for murder is 2 to 12 years. However, this twelve-year limit may be exceeded by three years in the case of a joint offense involving several offenses.

Second, the prosecutor demands a term of imprisonment of at least 9 years and 6 months for the second eldest boy, a term of imprisonment of at least 12 years for the eldest boy, and a term of imprisonment of at least 11 years for the youngest boy. The prosecutor demands that the defendants remain detained.

11:53 a.m .: Defensive Sentences

Secondly, the defense of the eldest boy considers that the period of pre-trial detention already completed could possibly be sufficient to punish the boy for the act. The defense demands the second eldest boy be released from pre-trial detention. The eldest boy’s defense does not oppose being held captive.
The final discussion will now turn to prescribing a state of mind survey. This section is reviewed without being present in the audience.
12:10 pm: The sitting will continue in public

The sitting will continue in public. The session is followed immediately by a 10-minute break. During the break, the court is likely to consider a request for the release of at least one boy. It is not known whether a decision will be made to order a state of mind survey today.
12:21: Solution coming 24.3.

The judge says that the solution in the case will not be given today, but on March 24. It remains unclear whether this is a final decision or an interlocutory decision ordering a mental health test.
All respondents are still being held in custody.

So, it looks as though Boy A will likely get 12 years, Boy B, 9.5 years and Boy C, 11 years, if found guilty of murder. It will be a lot less if aggravated assault is accepted instead and/or manslaughter (second degree murder). On the other hand, even if the verdict and sentences are the maximum or the lesser ones, a further three years can be added on due to joint enterprise to commit the crime by more than one person (conspiracy). So Boy A could be looking at 15 years maximum, Boy B, 12 years six months and Boy C, 14 years.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 05:47 AM   #62
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So the following defence demand might possibly be the cheekiest, most arrogant, most deluded ever, in the annals of crime history:
Quote:
At 11.56 a.m. the second-eldest defendant's lawyer says his principal's sentence must be significantly shorter than 9.5 years in prison.
According to lawyer Dani Palviainen , an appropriate punishment for this boy would be less than two years' probation. If that was not enough, the boy could be additionally sentenced to surveillance and juvenile punishment.
According to Palviainen, the court must consider whether the three-month pre-trial detention has already served as a sufficient punishment for this accused. This of the boys is the one who wasn’t there all night in Koskela Park and he only hit the victim a couple of times that night. He admits he was only guilty of assault.
The boy has now been remanded in custody for three months, which, according to the lawyer, equates to 9 months in prison as a young person.
Palviainen is demanding the release of the boy from pre-trial detention now as soon as the trial is over.
MTV

Signs of a real sociopath: narcissistic belief he can get away with anything, self-entitlement and a failure to accept responsibility for his actions. Boy B, unlike Boy A, has admitted to nothing apart from the bare minimum of a couple of punches and the fortuitous fact he had to leave the scene for a while for a hospital appointment for his diabetes. Boy A, the one with the designer parents, at least attempted to be as candid as possible and admitted his role in the crime, although, of course he denies murder.

The boys were present in court with their chaperones. None looked at the other. Two of the mothers were there. They offered condolences to the victim's parents. So perhaps one parent was missing, or maybe declined to make a statement.
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Old 3rd March 2021, 06:14 PM   #63
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Thanks for the updates on the trial. Looking at it from Canada, it was very speedy. Had the crime been committed here at the same time (December 2020), I wouldn't expect a trial until 2021 at least and probably 2022.

I know the court is referring to the defendants as boys A, B, and C, but given that their names are already public, could you provide a cross-reference for us? (e.g. "Boy A is <name>, age <age>")?
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Old 3rd March 2021, 10:54 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So the following defence demand might possibly be the cheekiest, most arrogant, most deluded ever, in the annals of crime history:
Well, the defence attourneys are just doing their work - obviously that's a really unpleasant and disingenious demand, but based on an interpretation of the law. I totally understand why people despise defence lawyers but they still do a really valuable service in keeping the prosecutors and the police honest. When the defendants had next to no rights and no defenders the justice system was a total corrupt travesty - and would be again. Such is human nature.
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Old 4th March 2021, 12:46 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by llwyd View Post
Well, the defence attourneys are just doing their work - obviously that's a really unpleasant and disingenious demand, but based on an interpretation of the law. I totally understand why people despise defence lawyers but they still do a really valuable service in keeping the prosecutors and the police honest. When the defendants had next to no rights and no defenders the justice system was a total corrupt travesty - and would be again. Such is human nature.
The guy is acting for the Boy B and it is testimony to this Boy B's lack of self-awareness/arrogance that the other two Boys have accepted at least some responsibility, albeit not murder itself, and expressed remorse (even if only for the benefit of the court and saving their own skin). For Boy B to demand 'two years probation' and to walk free because he had already been on remand three months is shocking. Maybe now he can sit in his cell and reflect on why he hasn't been released, no doubt to hide away in his parents summer cottage somewhere remote, but somehow is still in custody! How can this be? I am betting it is his mother who begged the court for the verdict to be 'fair'; i.e., 'Let my little darling go.'
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Old 4th March 2021, 12:51 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Thanks for the updates on the trial. Looking at it from Canada, it was very speedy. Had the crime been committed here at the same time (December 2020), I wouldn't expect a trial until 2021 at least and probably 2022.

I know the court is referring to the defendants as boys A, B, and C, but given that their names are already public, could you provide a cross-reference for us? (e.g. "Boy A is <name>, age <age>")?
It's extremely speedy even for Finland See post no. 10, these are supposedly the culprits, in chronological order. The oldest two are born within a couple of weeks of each other, the third almost a year younger.
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Old 4th March 2021, 01:53 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So today the hearing resumes.

[...]

One of the boys or more claims to have seen the victim's hand move (one hand was deliberately broken by boy A, the one who barely knew the victim but did know boy B from riippukoulu (confirmation class for sixteen-year-olds)). Boy B, seems to be at the centre of the Venn diagram, knowing all three of the boys, the victim and his best friend Boy C, from primary school.

[...]

Hi Vixen, is there a Venn diagram you can link? If there is, I'd love to see how the information was presented.

I wasn't sure if there's an actual Venn diagram, or if you used the phrase "Boy B, seems to be at the centre of the Venn diagram," figuratively?

Thank you for your detailed coverage.
I've read some of the articles you linked with google translate.
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Old 5th March 2021, 02:17 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
Hi Vixen, is there a Venn diagram you can link? If there is, I'd love to see how the information was presented.

I wasn't sure if there's an actual Venn diagram, or if you used the phrase "Boy B, seems to be at the centre of the Venn diagram," figuratively?

Thank you for your detailed coverage.
I've read some of the articles you linked with google translate.
Yes, I was being figurative. However, I have sketched a diagram for you, as I see it.

So, despite Boy B claiming he had very little to do with it at all, he is obviously the ringleader AFAICS.
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Old 5th March 2021, 08:44 AM   #69
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I get that the ring around A, B and C shows that they knew each other, and the ring round B, C and D shows that they knew each other, and consequently there was no connection between A and D.

But what does the ring around Boy B alone indicate?
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Old 6th March 2021, 06:44 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I get that the ring around A, B and C shows that they knew each other, and the ring round B, C and D shows that they knew each other, and consequently there was no connection between A and D.

But what does the ring around Boy B alone indicate?
Less confusing than a big circle.
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Old 7th March 2021, 05:09 AM   #71
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The big circle is less confusing than a big circle?

Not following.
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