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Old 29th June 2012, 11:47 AM   #2081
edge
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo
Was that god's doing?



Sure it was and depends on how you look at it.
If we were allowed wisdom since the fall then we are to use what we have which includes prayer or asking for help.
Did God help me through this problem, yes in ways that I wouldn't be able to convince you with.

This last injury was the second injury within a months’ time, the first was even more devastating and was taken away overnight through prayer. The second one was healed through time to a certain point and almost gone with virtually no pain. It was caused by my own strength and pulling power, the last thing that would have fixed it would have been literally to ball up my fist and hit something with it to get it uncompressed, force the bones in my wrist to go out sideways to release two pinched nerves. There were two choices and I choose the wisdom God gave us to heal ourselves. Also by going that way I found another flaw in my health that needs to be addressed that I wouldn’t have known about, I think that is part of his plan in keeping the temple clean, ( My temple specifically) that I am now addressing or face death or a heart attack in the future and still there is no guarantee. To be more right with God and myself I have to fix this problem. Do I blame God? No, there is no blame, it is my entire fault.

Here’s how this played out, before you can go to surgery they check your heart with an EKG to test your heart to see if you can take general anesthesia and they found the same thing they did six years ago when I had the episode. They said I had a heart attack sometime in the past but couldn’t say when exactly. We prayed six years ago for protection and I haven’t had a problem since then except a skip in my heart beat but only when I am ready to fall asleep. I might get a skip one time a minute several times before drifting off. I can stop it simply by falling asleep on my right side. So I had to go to a heart doctor to run a stress test, they found the same thing and I got a go ahead or a cardiac release after a stress test.
While there the doctor was amazed that I had not had any other episodes then the ones I described since part of my heart muscle was as he put it, was dead. I said, well how can that be? He said that the body had a way of compensating and fixing itself. What he doesn’t know is that we prayed about it and at the rate I smoke I should have had another episode. Also my lungs after the amount of time that I smoked are not that bad at all, but I know now it is up to me to fix and correct my habit, with God’s help. All I have to do now is stop smoking cigarettes.

Has that happened you ask? Yes, I now have the tools to quit which I couldn’t afford as you know they are expensive and I haven’t really been able to make any real money for months.
But yet the amazing thing is; I still have my place in these troubled times, the bills are ok and doable, I have upgraded to a newer truck with payments and more insurance that I didn’t have before and all things in my mind are possible and positive and I don’t blame anyone for the bad things I just pray them away. You’ll view this as all coincidental but if it was, chances are, I wouldn’t be here according to what others have gone through, the odds would be against me.
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Old 29th June 2012, 12:06 PM   #2082
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo
Was that god's doing?



[i][color="DarkRed"]Sure it was and depends on how you look at it.
I look at it objectively. How do you look at it?

Quote:
If we were allowed wisdom since the fall then we are to use what we have which includes prayer or asking for help.
Did God help me through this problem, yes in ways that I wouldn't be able to convince you with.
Why did god give you those problems to begin with? What a right bastard *******. How do you know it wasn't god that put you in that position and then how do you know that it was god that helped you out of it? What were the objective criteria you used to decide which things god has a hand in and which he doesn't? This god creature sounds like a psycho that needs to be locked up for the good of mankind. Will you help me find it? Maybe between us we can kill it.

Quote:
This last injury was the second injury within a months’ time, the first was even more devastating and was taken away overnight through prayer.
So your god injured you twice? Why do you worship such a monster?

Quote:
The second one was healed through time to a certain point and almost gone with virtually no pain. It was caused by my own strength and pulling power, the last thing that would have fixed it would have been literally to ball up my fist and hit something with it to get it uncompressed, force the bones in my wrist to go out sideways to release two pinched nerves. There were two choices and I choose the wisdom God gave us to heal ourselves.
So we can heal everything using our wisdom? Why does this piece of **** god do such things to people?

Quote:
Also by going that way I found another flaw in my health that needs to be addressed that I wouldn’t have known about, I think that is part of his plan in keeping the temple clean, ( My temple specifically) that I am now addressing or face death or a heart attack in the future and still there is no guarantee. To be more right with God and myself I have to fix this problem. Do I blame God? No, there is no blame, it is my entire fault.
So on top of the other injuries, god also gave you a bum ticker? What an absolute bastard that god is, huh? Let's hope that humans can correct what god ********** up.

Quote:
Here’s how this played out, before you can go to surgery they check your heart with an EKG to test your heart to see if you can take general anesthesia and they found the same thing they did six years ago when I had the episode. They said I had a heart attack sometime in the past but couldn’t say when exactly. We prayed six years ago for protection and I haven’t had a problem since then except a skip in my heart beat but only when I am ready to fall asleep. I might get a skip one time a minute several times before drifting off. I can stop it simply by falling asleep on my right side. So I had to go to a heart doctor to run a stress test, they found the same thing and I got a go ahead or a cardiac release after a stress test.
While there the doctor was amazed that I had not had any other episodes then the ones I described since part of my heart muscle was as he put it, was dead. I said, well how can that be? He said that the body had a way of compensating and fixing itself. What he doesn’t know is that we prayed about it and at the rate I smoke I should have had another episode. Also my lungs after the amount of time that I smoked are not that bad at all, but I know now it is up to me to fix and correct my habit, with God’s help. All I have to do now is stop smoking cigarettes.
Why did that son of a bitch god put cigarettes in your path and give you a craving to smoke them? Let's hope with your human willpower and maybe some human inventions like the patch you'll be able to get that god monkey off your back.

Quote:
Has that happened you ask? Yes, I now have the tools to quit which I couldn’t afford as you know they are expensive and I haven’t really been able to make any real money for months.
So your god kept you in poverty on top of screwing with your health? If I ever meet this idiot god person I'll make a citizen's arrest for his crimes against humanity.

Quote:
But yet the amazing thing is; I still have my place in these troubled times, the bills are ok and doable, I have upgraded to a newer truck with payments and more insurance that I didn’t have before and all things in my mind are possible and positive and I don’t blame anyone for the bad things I just pray them away. You’ll view this as all coincidental but if it was, chances are, I wouldn’t be here according to what others have gone through, the odds would be against me.[/color][/i]
Oh, thank goodness you're able to overcome the adversity that bastard god does to you. I can't imagine why a god would allow a child to die of cancer, can you? What a horrible, horrible being this thing must be, if it exists.
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Old 29th June 2012, 12:11 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by catsmate1 View Post
So what is you god's view on the children who die as a result of religiously motivated circumcisions?
I have no Idea? And this:
Originally Posted by Marduk
Quote:
my man, start dealing with the facts, Hitler was a christian who's troops wore Gott Mitt Uns, (god with us) on their belt buckles and Stalin was educated at a seminary. Mein Kampf is full of references to the God of christianity
if you're going to pick atheist dictators, then Mao Tse-tung fits your requirements
though of course he's overshadowed by thousands of Christian leaders who went before him slaughtering their way into power, so you don't really have a point and seeing as your own God allegedly slaughtered everyone on earth except for 8 people you don't really have a case to make in the first place

150,000,000 people died when Christianity discovered America, they all had to die so that you can pretend that Atheists are horrible people, take a look around your property and ask yourself who was responsible for the death of the Indians who used to own it.

Interesting point.
I know that all atheists aren't horrible people.
All I can tell you is this, I will not make those mistakes through the understanding that I have of God's will/plan.
As far as I know the line of people I came into being through haven't done anything horrible and that's why I am probably here.
They have had horrible things done to them.
The Indians had the best way of life on Earth ever and I hope to dance around their camp fires with them on that other side.
Just face it people suck...I feel the same as my guard dog sometimes as I have to explain his aggressiveness away sometimes, Sometimes I am blamed for him going off at black people, that I trained him to do that, which is not true. I haven’t had to train him for protection or that kind of behavior at all, he reads people mostly and most of the time he is right, but he over does it.
Like this: "He's not prejudice he hates everyone equally." If you are to close he is going to go for you.
We don't know why all the things happen the way that they do, but just think if Germany would have discovered America first, where would we be now? They may have wiped them out the Indians totally, who knows.
I got to go agian.

Last edited by edge; 29th June 2012 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 29th June 2012, 12:29 PM   #2084
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"]We don't know why all the things happen the way that they do,[/color][/i]
Then why do you attribute some events to god if you have no way of knowing if it had a hand in them or not? Let's see if I can do it:

That son of a bitch god is burning Colorado off the face of the map! We should hunt him down and cut off his hands until he stops *********** with people! Goddamn!

So that piece of **** god allowed 4 year old Carnel Chamberlain to be abused and murdered and buried under a porch. What kind of a low-life god would allow that to happen? Goddamn!

Hey, it works! You just attribute random things to a god!
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Old 29th June 2012, 04:21 PM   #2085
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Originally Posted by edge View Post

We don't know why all the things happen the way that they do

<snip>

And yet you claimed you did in your OP. It is all God's plan, did you forget, or did you change your mind?

Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad.
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Old 29th June 2012, 05:08 PM   #2086
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It is still a big big puzzle how of all the types of gods one could believe in, they buy into the god of the bible, one of the biggest, most worthless etc etc etc there is.

Paul

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Old 29th June 2012, 06:56 PM   #2087
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo
Was that god's doing?



Sure it was and depends on how you look at it.
If we were allowed wisdom since the fall then we are to use what we have which includes prayer or asking for help.
Did God help me through this problem, yes in ways that I wouldn't be able to convince you with.

This last injury was the second injury within a months’ time, the first was even more devastating and was taken away overnight through prayer. The second one was healed through time to a certain point and almost gone with virtually no pain. It was caused by my own strength and pulling power, the last thing that would have fixed it would have been literally to ball up my fist and hit something with it to get it uncompressed, force the bones in my wrist to go out sideways to release two pinched nerves. There were two choices and I choose the wisdom God gave us to heal ourselves. Also by going that way I found another flaw in my health that needs to be addressed that I wouldn’t have known about, I think that is part of his plan in keeping the temple clean, ( My temple specifically) that I am now addressing or face death or a heart attack in the future and still there is no guarantee. To be more right with God and myself I have to fix this problem. Do I blame God? No, there is no blame, it is my entire fault.

Here’s how this played out, before you can go to surgery they check your heart with an EKG to test your heart to see if you can take general anesthesia and they found the same thing they did six years ago when I had the episode. They said I had a heart attack sometime in the past but couldn’t say when exactly. We prayed six years ago for protection and I haven’t had a problem since then except a skip in my heart beat but only when I am ready to fall asleep. I might get a skip one time a minute several times before drifting off. I can stop it simply by falling asleep on my right side. So I had to go to a heart doctor to run a stress test, they found the same thing and I got a go ahead or a cardiac release after a stress test.
While there the doctor was amazed that I had not had any other episodes then the ones I described since part of my heart muscle was as he put it, was dead. I said, well how can that be? He said that the body had a way of compensating and fixing itself. What he doesn’t know is that we prayed about it and at the rate I smoke I should have had another episode. Also my lungs after the amount of time that I smoked are not that bad at all, but I know now it is up to me to fix and correct my habit, with God’s help. All I have to do now is stop smoking cigarettes.

Has that happened you ask? Yes, I now have the tools to quit which I couldn’t afford as you know they are expensive and I haven’t really been able to make any real money for months.
But yet the amazing thing is; I still have my place in these troubled times, the bills are ok and doable, I have upgraded to a newer truck with payments and more insurance that I didn’t have before and all things in my mind are possible and positive and I don’t blame anyone for the bad things I just pray them away. You’ll view this as all coincidental but if it was, chances are, I wouldn’t be here according to what others have gone through, the odds would be against me.
Why didn't god give you a truck.
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Old 29th June 2012, 07:16 PM   #2088
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
What he doesn’t know is that we prayed about it and at the rate I smoke I should have had another episode. Also my lungs after the amount of time that I smoked are not that bad at all, but I know now it is up to me to fix and correct my habit, with God’s help. All I have to do now is stop smoking cigarettes.

Has that happened you ask? Yes, I now have the tools to quit which I couldn’t afford as you know they are expensive and I haven’t really been able to make any real money for months.

Funny. I decided to quit smoking, and I quit. Didn't ask for any help. Didn't spend a dime. I just stopped smoking. Your god must be some kind of pussy if he can't disappear your smoking habit. Thousands of people quit without the intervention of invisible magical beings. I guess those mere mortal humans are more powerful than your puny weakling god.

Quote:
But yet the amazing thing is; I still have my place in these troubled times, the bills are ok and doable, I have upgraded to a newer truck with payments and more insurance that I didn’t have before and all things in my mind are possible and positive and I don’t blame anyone for the bad things I just pray them away.

Bad things come and go in the lives of people who don't pray, too.

Quote:
You’ll view this as all coincidental but if it was, chances are, I wouldn’t be here according to what others have gone through, the odds would be against me.

No. I view it as a failure of your invisible magical pal to actually have the power to do the magic tricks you believe he can do.
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Old 29th June 2012, 10:41 PM   #2089
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
While there the doctor was amazed that I had not had any other episodes then the ones I described since part of my heart muscle was as he put it, was dead. I said, well how can that be? He said that the body had a way of compensating and fixing itself. {emphasis Mine} What he doesn’t know is that we prayed about it...
You think it was your prayers. I think that the doctor is more accurate: Your body possesses the ability to compensate for damaged tissues. Do you have any way of empirically demonstrating that it was divine intervention that did the trick?

Quote:
But yet the amazing thing is; I still have my place in these troubled times, the bills are ok and doable, I have upgraded to a newer truck...
Unless I actually needed a vehicle in order to work, this is exactly what I would not do in a wobbly economy while dealing with health and employment uncertainties. I'd be practising selective austerities (but with occasional, low-cost treats like a movie or book or bottle of wine), clearing outstanding debts and trying to build up savings equal to 3-6 months' take-home pay.

Quote:
You’ll view this as all coincidental but if it was, chances are, I wouldn’t be here according to what others have gone through, the odds would be against me.
I can't speak to the actual mortality statistics relevant to your demographic, Edge, but heart disease isn't as black-and-white as that. There are a lot of people walking around with significant health conditions, and a good many of them will keep going for years with proper medical supervision.

I also have no idea what kind of heart muscle damage you actually suffered (might not have been a myocardial infarction; could have been myocarditis, for instance), but the fact that you did survive it does make one think that it poses long-term rather than imminent risk.

Regardless of how you got to this point, work hard and consistently on smoking cessation. If it helps you to use religious imagery, pretend that the cigarettes are money-changers and mentally chase them out of your temple... But gently. No running around maniacally, yelling or overturning tables.

(Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. Please consult with your medical professional of choice.)
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Old 30th June 2012, 05:32 AM   #2090
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About 11 to 12 million (Jews and others) were killed in The Holocaust alone in WWII, of course none of them prayed to any god. About 50 million more died before their time in WWII and of course none of them prayed too.


The power of prayer.................. no better then chance.


Paul


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Old 30th June 2012, 07:53 AM   #2091
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Edge, what plans does god have for dealing with liars?
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Old 1st July 2012, 05:21 AM   #2092
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Edge, what plans does god have for dealing with liars?
The question is not about liars, it is about what is his god's plans for people that fool themselves into believing in said god being anything they want it to be. Oh wait a minute, never mind.

Paul

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Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
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Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 1st July 2012, 07:15 AM   #2093
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Edge, what plans does god have for dealing with liars?
Nothing if you ask for forgiveness.
Same if you are moral, but not sure in your case or Paul’s’. It's funny that someone who won't talk directly to me; how often that person posts here.

Astreja gave advise
:
Quote:
Unless I actually needed a vehicle in order to work, this is exactly what I would not do in a wobbly economy while dealing with health and employment uncertainties. I'd be practicing selective austerities (but with occasional, low-cost treats like a movie or book or bottle of wine), clearing outstanding debts and trying to build up savings equal to 3-6 months' take-home pay.
There was a need so I could make all my appointments and knowing what would happen not to mention I have faith that it was the right call. When I said this; "Did God help me through this problem, yes in ways that I wouldn't be able to convince you with".
I already knew that. But thanks for the advice but I see a much bigger picture of why I had to go through this and the good that came from my tribulation.
This is also something you won’t be convinced of and I’ll leave it at that.
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Old 1st July 2012, 07:21 AM   #2094
edge
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Originally Posted by Paulhoff View Post
About 11 to 12 million (Jews and others) were killed in The Holocaust alone in WWII, of course none of them prayed to any god. About 50 million more died before their time in WWII and of course none of them prayed too.


The power of prayer.................. no better then chance.


Paul


In yellow: How would you know! Link or proof please or are you just talking out your Arse as usual? Seems like my people were praying as they told me this fact and not mentioning the proof they received. Oh ya you’re not talking to me, cowardice at its finest I forgot.
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Old 1st July 2012, 07:25 AM   #2095
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"]Nothing if you ask for forgiveness.
Why do people have to ask for forgiveness? What kind of bastard is this god who murders children and then demands that good people have to beg his forgiveness?

Quote:
Same if you are moral, but not sure in your case or Paul’s’. It's funny that someone who won't talk directly to me; how often that person posts here. :boggled:
That sentence doesn't parse into English.

Quote:
Astreja gave advise[/color][/i]:
[i][color="DarkRed"]There was a need so I could make all my appointments and knowing what would happen not to mention I have faith that it was the right call. When I said this; "Did God help me through this problem, yes in ways that I wouldn't be able to convince you with".
Why did the bastard god give you the problem to begin with?

Quote:
I already knew that. But thanks for the advice but I see a much bigger picture of why I had to go through this and the good that came from my tribulation.
This is also something you won’t be convinced of and I’ll leave it at that.
[/color][/i]
I'm convinced that if your god exists, he should be hunted down and put on trial for crimes against humanity. You'll be called as a witness for the prosecution.

Last edited by RoboTimbo; 1st July 2012 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 1st July 2012, 07:27 AM   #2096
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"] In yellow: How would you know![/color][/i]
How would you know indeed? What are the objective criteria you use to know when an event is your god's doing versus the event being random chance? Please don't cowardly avoid the question again and not talk to me.
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Old 1st July 2012, 07:42 AM   #2097
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So let's make two assumptions:
1) God is not a total and utter [four letter word]
2) God is at least as smart as your average guy who saw Terminator.

Now with those in mind what use is it to try and work out Gods plans. And especially what good is it toassume those plans are in the book of revelations. Assuming god is in any way reasonable or compassionate he wont care which path to enlightment you choose. He will recognise believing in him is not enough to make you good, and believing in something else not enough to mean you are evil. This means any plan that relies on the rapture, the end of days, or punishments to the masses big or small areworthless. If god knows the devil is going to send a false prophet claiming to be nice, and has planned accordingly it makes no sense to include that, and the suffering of millions, in the plan. Not when as omniscient as he is, he could send JC down BEFORE the false prophet is due.

More to the point, if the whole of creation is planned why would we need forgiveness for playing our part? If everything happens because god wills it, for his purpose, then we have no free will. We are all working to his plan, events are controlled and we should not be expected to enslaved and then to beg.

If on the other hand there is no plan, no prophecy and we do have free will, then god is reactive. It is morally superior to the alternative, but means even if you believe in god you can not assume all events are to his plan. You have to take your own responsibility.

It is very hard to both eat the cake and have it for later.
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Old 1st July 2012, 08:02 AM   #2098
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
How would you know indeed? What are the objective criteria you use to know when an event is your god's doing versus the event being random chance? Please don't cowardly avoid the question again and not talk to me.
How would I know?
Because people who I know who were put into the camps told me.


Quote:
Why did God give you the problem to begin with?
Fixed it for you. You're not going to get to me by writing crap like that.
I already told you before it was me not God.
You are not capable of reading in English is what I get from your posts. My problem was almost completely gone and I take responsibility for the shape I am in since I wasn't born with these little problems. Go back and read what I wrote when I did answer you. People with reading comprehension problems in here wow! Go and figure the twisted minds that exist in here, where’s your fridge, game room ect…
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Old 1st July 2012, 08:11 AM   #2099
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"]How would I know?
Because people who I know who were put into the camps told me.[/color][/i]
People in the camps told you what the objective criteria are for knowing whether an event was caused by god versus when it was caused by random chance? Great! What are those criteria? Why won't you tell me?

Quote:
[i][color="darkred"]Fixed it for you. You're not going to get to me by writing crap like that.
I already told you before it was me not God.
You are not capable of reading in English is what I get from your posts. My problem was almost completely gone and I take responsibility for the shape I am in since I wasn't born with these little problems. Go back and read what I wrote when I did answer you. People with reading comprehension problems in here wow! Go and figure the twisted minds that exist in here, where’s your fridge, game room ect…[/color][/i] :rolleyes:
What exactly did you fix other than editing out the things you have no answer for? Yes, you told me it was you and not your god. You didn't tell me how you know, though. That's what I asked. I asked what are the objective criteria you use to know whether something is god's doing or your own or random chance. Why won't you tell me? Why did god give you the desire to start smoking? What a right bastard he is.
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Old 1st July 2012, 08:24 AM   #2100
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
So let's make two assumptions:
1) God is not a total and utter [four letter word]
2) God is at least as smart as your average guy who saw Terminator.

Now with those in mind what use is it to try and work out Gods plans. And especially what good is it to assume those plans are in the book of revelations. Assuming god is in any way reasonable or compassionate he won’t care which path to enlightenment you choose. He will recognize believing in him is not enough to make you good, and believing in something else not enough to mean you are evil. This means any plan that relies on the rapture, the end of days, or punishments to the masses big or small are worthless. If god knows the devil is going to send a false prophet claiming to be nice, and has planned accordingly it makes no sense to include that, and the suffering of millions, in the plan. Not when as omniscient as he is, he could send JC down BEFORE the false prophet is due.

More to the point, if the whole of creation is planned why would we need forgiveness for playing our part? If everything happens because god wills it, for his purpose, then we have no free will. We are all working to his plan, events are controlled and we should not be expected to enslaved and then to beg.

If on the other hand there is no plan, no prophecy and we do have free will, then god is reactive. It is morally superior to the alternative, but means even if you believe in god you can not assume all events are to his plan. You have to take your own responsibility. It is very hard to both eat the cake and have it for later.
In yellow: I think God did that himself when he gave us the grace of Jesus sacrifice and when he said, "I have come here so all can be saved".
I think that the plan can change to some extent or to be hidden as was the case when Jesus was hidden on occasions.
He seems to be reactive in many ways as I wrote above, for hope, but yet to continue faith. The devil can read and knows this too so the question is, will God let the devil mess up the plan?
No, but it is hard to see that in today's world.
What I have found out is not all the answers are in the Bible and things are a little different than all we can know that is in the bible about God. God may be reviling himself in many other ways as I have observed. The problem is in our ability to recognize when he does.


You said this:
Quote:
He will recognize believing in him is not enough to make you good, and believing in something else not enough to mean you are evil.
I am sure of this as I said and copied this before, (Lets look at this:“Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.” As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.[Ezekiel 9:3-6]

You might even have the mark and don't know it.
If you obey man’s laws you obey Gods laws if they are just, which is what I gave you above.
If you are moral then you have the mark of God already and not of the beast.
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Old 1st July 2012, 08:31 AM   #2101
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
People in the camps told you what the objective criteria are for knowing whether an event was caused by god versus when it was caused by random chance? Great! What are those criteria? Why won't you tell me?


What exactly did you fix other than editing out the things you have no answer for? Yes, you told me it was you and not your god. You didn't tell me how you know, though. That's what I asked. I asked what are the objective criteria you use to know whether something is god's doing or your own or random chance. Why won't you tell me? Why did god give you the desire to start smoking? What a right bastard he is.
Again you want to twist it to fit your criteria of dis-belief. is your name Paul now.
The answer I gave was to Paul not you and as I said read back in the thread and stop your incessant confusion.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...20#post8415720
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Old 1st July 2012, 08:50 AM   #2102
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"]Again you want to twist it to fit your criteria of dis-belief. is your name Paul now.
The answer I gave was to Paul not you and as I said read back in the thread and stop your incessant confusion.[/color][/i]http://www.internationalskeptics.com...20#post8415720
In that post, Paul wasn't talking to you.

What are the objective criteria you use to know whether an event is caused by god versus being caused by man or by random chance? Have I been applying your criteria correctly?
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Old 1st July 2012, 09:27 AM   #2103
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Funny isn’t it, how he doesn't see the obvious dig at him, it is his prayers that count but people’s prayers that are about to be killed don’t.

As to the people not praying, of course many, if not all of them did, but death isn't important to the god of the bible so millions died, it is all part of the big plan you know. The only thing important to that god is to let someone think that their prayers for healing count, but in fact he only goes on with his so-called plans and just lets their bodies do their own healing and also he lets others help but none of that gets any credit, only he does.

Paul

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Old 1st July 2012, 09:50 AM   #2104
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
In yellow: I think God did that himself when he gave us the grace of Jesus sacrifice and when he said, "I have come here so all can be saved".
I think that the plan can change to some extent or to be hidden as was the case when Jesus was hidden on occasions.
He seems to be reactive in many ways as I wrote above, for hope, but yet to continue faith. The devil can read and knows this too so the question is, will God let the devil mess up the plan?
No, but it is hard to see that in today's world.
What I have found out is not all the answers are in the Bible and things are a little different than all we can know that is in the bible about God. God may be reviling himself in many other ways as I have observed. The problem is in our ability to recognize when he does.


You said this:
I am sure of this as I said and copied this before, (Lets look at this:“Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.” As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.[Ezekiel 9:3-6]

You might even have the mark and don't know it.
If you obey man’s laws you obey Gods laws if they are just, which is what I gave you above.
If you are moral then you have the mark of God already and not of the beast.
Oh goody. You chose a single sentence to hilight and discuss?

Never mind that what you say here contradicts the rest of your input. Or relies on your subjective interpetation of a book that may not be the accurate translation of the actual word of god.

If you want to talk about one sentence, fine:

Do we have freewill, or is there a plan, or is there some compromise?
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Old 1st July 2012, 10:14 AM   #2105
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
Do we have freewill, or is there a plan, or is there some compromise?
If there is a plan, Freewill is a joke.

Paul

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Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
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Old 1st July 2012, 10:40 AM   #2106
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Edge - The plans of god ...... ?

Kenya church attacks 'kill 15' in Garissa.

"Gunmen shot two policemen outside one of the churches, and grenades were then thrown inside. As the panicked congregation rushed to escape, gunmen fired on them, police said. At least 10 people died.

In the second - apparently co-ordinated - attack at a Catholic church, two grenades were thrown inside the church. One failed to go off, but police say three people were injured by the other one."

From the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18662975

Why would your god kill people praying to it on it's official day of rest and prayer?

Oh, wait, it was part of the plan and for their own good wasn't it!?



IBT
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Old 1st July 2012, 02:35 PM   #2107
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
How would I know?
Because people who I know who were put into the camps told me.
The people told you. Fair enough. What were the objective criteria they explained to you, which led them think it was god's doing?
To put it another way: why did you believe them, and not me when I tell you it was not god's doing?
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Old 1st July 2012, 04:20 PM   #2108
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God's loving plan...........

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE




Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 1st July 2012, 04:48 PM   #2109
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We have, in many ways, say this about believers and their god..........

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

Last edited by Paulhoff; 1st July 2012 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 1st July 2012, 09:27 PM   #2110
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Nothing if you ask for forgiveness.
Same if you are moral, but not sure in your case or Paul’s’. It's funny that someone who won't talk directly to me; how often that person posts here.

It must be great having the ultimate "get out of jail free" card up your sleeve
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Old 2nd July 2012, 01:30 AM   #2111
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If everything has been planned by god, then not only is free will a cruel joke, but life and love are a cruel joke. It means people were expected to fall in love, raise children, care for their friends and think they might be happy, and the whole time the plan is to suffer loss and destruction.

Who would include meaningless pain in a grand plan? Who would let you love just to make you feel the loss?
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Old 2nd July 2012, 04:58 AM   #2112
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
In that post, Paul wasn't talking to you.

What are the objective criteria you use to know whether an event is caused by god versus being caused by man or by random chance? Have I been applying your criteria correctly?
Paul has a big mouth and made a statement on my thread.
But has yet brought up proof about his statement when he said none of the captives prayed.
Insetead he puts up movies with those that are reaching for their goal.
Don't worry Gloria will show up sooner or later.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 05:34 AM   #2113
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"]Paul has a big mouth and made a statement on my thread.
Your phrasing is dishointed and illogical and you made a statement in JREF's thread. You have no standing to determine who posts in it or who those posts are directed to.

Quote:
But has yet brought up proof about his statement when he said none of the captives prayed.
You missed the sarcasm in the post. He was saying that the ones who died must not have prayed to the god of Abraham. If they had, the god of Abraham would have saved them from the Christian Hitler. Obviously, they did pray and just as obviously, they died just the same. Was that event controlled by your god? What are the objective criteria you use to determine whether an event is caused by god, by random chance or simply by people acting on their own motivation?

Quote:
Insetead he puts up movies with those that are reaching for their goal.
Don't worry Gloria will show up sooner or later.[/color][/i]
Gloria from Modern Family? Awesome! Is Sofia Vergara an act of a god or is she random chance or is she the result of two people who love each other very much for 30 minutes? What objective criteria did you use to arrive at your answer?
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Old 2nd July 2012, 05:38 AM   #2114
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Originally Posted by InkBlotTest View Post
Edge - The plans of god ...... ?

Kenya church attacks 'kill 15' in Garissa.

"Gunmen shot two policemen outside one of the churches, and grenades were then thrown inside. As the panicked congregation rushed to escape, gunmen fired on them, police said. At least 10 people died.

In the second - apparently co-ordinated - attack at a Catholic church, two grenades were thrown inside the church. One failed to go off, but police say three people were injured by the other one."

From the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-18662975

Why would your god kill people praying to it on it's official day of rest and prayer?

Oh, wait, it was part of the plan and for their own good wasn't it!?



IBT
So now God is a al-Shabab Islamic militant?
Sounds like cultural bias to me and that God is on their side doesn't it?
How fast you forget that there are two principalities at work in the world but you will discount that fact and the reason it is the way it is by what is known and even stated.


"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat.” (Luke 22:31)

Eph. 6

Put on the armor of God so that you may be able to stand firm against the tactics of the devil. [12] For our struggle is not with flesh and blood but with the principalities, with the powers, with the world rulers of this present darkness, with the evil spirits in the heavens.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 05:48 AM   #2115
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"]So now God is a al-Shabab Islamic militant?
Sounds like cultural bias to me and that God is on their side doesn't it?[/color][/i]
How do you know your god isn't? Sounds like cultural bias to me that god is on your side, doesn't it?

Maybe if you had some objective criteria that you used to explain how you know one way or the other.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 05:58 AM   #2116
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Your phrasing is dishointed and illogical and you made a statement in JREF's thread. You have no standing to determine who posts in it or who those posts are directed to.


You missed the sarcasm in the post. He was saying that the ones who died must not have prayed to the god of Abraham. If they had, the god of Abraham would have saved them from the Christian Hitler. Obviously, they did pray and just as obviously, they died just the same. Was that event controlled by your god? What are the objective criteria you use to determine whether an event is caused by god, by random chance or simply by people acting on their own motivation?


Gloria from Modern Family? Awesome! Is Sofia Vergara an act of a god or is she random chance or is she the result of two people who love each other very much for 30 minutes? What objective criteria did you use to arrive at your answer?
Gloria is God in one of those U-tube links that paul posted.
in Yellow; lets look at that:
Definition of SARCASM
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
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Old 2nd July 2012, 05:59 AM   #2117
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Given time, it has been shown time and time again that no god is needed to explain anything that happens. Just because many people need some answer doesn’t make it the real one.

The old idea of a god was to have someone on your side that could do something when asked. When there were many gods and one of them wasn’t working out, you just moved on to the next temple. Now all we ever hear is apologies for this one god and they have no else to go to. Of course they will point to Jesus but they are just conveniently forgetting that he is also the same god, but he isn’t, but he is, but…..

They love to think that because this all doesn’t make sense that they are thinking on a higher level without doing the hard work of LEARNING.

Paul


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Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 2nd July 2012, 06:04 AM   #2118
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
How do you know your god isn't? Sounds like cultural bias to me that god is on your side, doesn't it?

Maybe if you had some objective criteria that you used to explain how you know one way or the other.
The bible shows that he only knows fear and death when he deals with people, you know, with the ones he loves so much.

Unlike them, I expect so much more from a god.

And what the hell is all this learning here on earth for if this heaven isn't the same and the rules are all different.

Paul

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For our money "IN WHICH GOD DO YOU TRUST"
Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
A society fails when ignorance outweighs knowledge
Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing
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Old 2nd July 2012, 06:04 AM   #2119
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Gloria is God in one of those U-tube links that paul posted.
in Yellow; lets look at that:
Definition of SARCASM
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
So now you have the definition of sarcasm, you can re-read Paulhoff's post and, this time, understand the meaning.

Last edited by Mashuna; 2nd July 2012 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 2nd July 2012, 06:07 AM   #2120
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
[i][color="DarkRed"]Gloria is God in one of those U-tube links that paul posted.
in Yellow; lets look at that:[/color][/i]Definition of SARCASM
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
2a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often [b]ironic language that is usually directed against an individual[/b]
Yep, #2 that was the point. You missed it. That's why I had to explain it to you. Isn't that ironic?

It's also a pity you didn't address the question I keep asking about your cultural bias. You instead chose to edit it out. You still have no sensible or logical answer for it?
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