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Tags doctor who , Nick Fletcher , Tories , uk politics

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Old 27th November 2021, 11:08 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Well...

Funnily enough, Peterson came up because apparently he gives the advice we should stroke more cats which is something I'd certainly do and I suspect you would too
So did The Lancet IIRR.

I have a cat occupying the sofa with my SOs, having banished me to an armchair. They're sharing a blanket and are very cosy.
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Old 27th November 2021, 01:22 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Which was when?
About 25 years ago

Last edited by Manger Douse; 27th November 2021 at 01:24 PM. Reason: I'm older than I thought
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Old 27th November 2021, 01:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
So did The Lancet IIRR.

I have a cat occupying the sofa with my SOs, having banished me to an armchair. They're sharing a blanket and are very cosy.
It's good advice (currently kitten sitting and fingers are for nibbling at this age, not for strokes) but along with tidying your room, it's not what I'd call esoteric knowledge but to these lads, it seemed Peterson's advice was
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Old 27th November 2021, 01:42 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Really? What would be your understanding of the context?
It's the same old culture wars debate, and the same old argument that lack of good male role models in popular culture contributes to male violence etc. Not particularly about the latest Who causing young male criminality.
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Old 27th November 2021, 02:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's the same old culture wars debate, and the same old argument that lack of good male role models in popular culture contributes to male violence etc. Not particularly about the latest Who causing young male criminality.
That's why in Canada we idolize ice hockey players.
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Old 27th November 2021, 04:58 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I never understood the idea of a "role model". Do people actually look at part of what they think they know about someone else, even when it's a fictional character, and decide to try to act like them? That sounds crazy.
It may sometime be crazy, but it's certainly true. Children copy the behavior of adults and their depictions in fiction. Fictional role models are often more consistent and easier to emulate than real people - by design. They are the people we want to be.

So you can imagine why a misogynist would be concerned about young boys treating a female character as a role model. Just imagine how they might start behaving! They might get the idea that women and men can be equals, that violence is not the answer to every problem, or that it's OK to show emotion!
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Old 28th November 2021, 11:15 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I never understood the idea of a "role model". Do people actually look at part of what they think they know about someone else, even when it's a fictional character, and decide to try to act like them?
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Children copy the behavior of adults and their depictions in fiction. Fictional role models are often more consistent and easier to emulate than real people - by design.
Children's imitation of adults is automatic & subconscious, not by choice. And most do find it most natural to imitate adults of their own gender. But the "role model" concept is still a bad way to describe it because it narrows down the range of people to talk about kids imitating to only as many as you can think of and list on the spur of the moment, and that's not how it normally works. Kids don't just imitate one or two or a few individual adults of their gender. They imitate the general concept of adults of their gender. And there is a real problem with our culture having a general concept of masculinity that consists almost entirely of negatives. But the "role model" concept is the wrong way to talk about that because no set of a few names could ever be adequate for talking about the general concept.
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Old 28th November 2021, 12:46 PM   #48
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More commentary.
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Old 28th November 2021, 08:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
I approve that psot!!

(Other than the fact that its is written by Marie Le Conte, a French journalist .)

I think I have a quote from Samuel Johnson around here somewhere.
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Old 28th November 2021, 11:51 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's the same old culture wars debate, and the same old argument that lack of good male role models in popular culture contributes to male violence etc. Not particularly about the latest Who causing young male criminality.
Oh...so the Jordan Peterson whine. So, how does that make sense?
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Last edited by Susheel; 28th November 2021 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 29th November 2021, 12:10 AM   #51
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Wait, did he just say that James Bond was a good role model? James Bond?
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Old 29th November 2021, 12:25 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Wait, did he just say that James Bond was a good role model? James Bond?
From his standpoint, absolutely. What's not to like about a misogynist, white, male, upper middle class, psychopath ?
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Old 29th November 2021, 03:27 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
That's why in Canada we idolize ice hockey players.
He is the head boy at the school
He is the captain of the team
He is so gay* and fancy free
And I wish I could be like David Watts
And all the girls in the neighbourhood
Try to go out with David Watts
They try their best but can't succeed
For he is of pure and noble breed

~ Ray Davies

*in Ye Olde English sense, I believe.
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Old 29th November 2021, 03:35 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
Children's imitation of adults is automatic & subconscious, not by choice. And most do find it most natural to imitate adults of their own gender. But the "role model" concept is still a bad way to describe it because it narrows down the range of people to talk about kids imitating to only as many as you can think of and list on the spur of the moment, and that's not how it normally works. Kids don't just imitate one or two or a few individual adults of their gender. They imitate the general concept of adults of their gender. And there is a real problem with our culture having a general concept of masculinity that consists almost entirely of negatives. But the "role model" concept is the wrong way to talk about that because no set of a few names could ever be adequate for talking about the general concept.
Is it nature or nurture? Who knows if it is to do with copying those in one's environment. I was once a wimminslibber and went to 'conscious raising' groups (this was great fun as we brought along a picnic) refused to play the housewife role, etcetera. However, once I reached <whisper it> middle age I realised I actually LIKED knitting, cooking and baking and all of those little acts of creativity such as making curtains and sheets from lovely fabrics and textiles. I know some men knit, too, but that seems to be more for therapeutic measures, such as relaxation.
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Old 29th November 2021, 11:09 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He is the head boy at the school
He is the captain of the team
He is so gay* and fancy free
And I wish I could be like David Watts
And all the girls in the neighbourhood
Try to go out with David Watts
They try their best but can't succeed
For he is of pure and noble breed

~ Ray Davies

[hilite]*in Ye Olde English sense, I believe.
[/HILITE

Are you sure about that? "pure and noble breed"? Euphemisms-r-Us?
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Old 29th November 2021, 11:14 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post

Are you sure about that? "pure and noble breed"? Euphemisms-r-Us?
Indeed.
Courtesy of Wikipedia

Quote:
As Ray Davies confirmed in The Kinks: The Official Biography by Savage, "David Watts is a real person. He was a concert promoter in Rutland." Ray goes on to relate how the real Watts was gay and demonstrated an obvious romantic interest in brother Dave Davies. In this light, lines such as "he is so gay and fancy free" and "all the girls in the neighbourhood try to go out with David Watts... but can't succeed" provide a second level of interpretation based on this ironic in-joke.
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Old 29th November 2021, 11:19 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Indeed.
Courtesy of Wikipedia
The Internet World is a wonderfully amazing place.
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Old 29th November 2021, 11:45 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Oh...so the Jordan Peterson whine. So, how does that make sense?
The debate about role models in popular culture did not originate with Jordan Peterson. The complaint about role models makes sense in the context of that debate.

I think the question of role models in popular culture is a worthwhile topic of discussion. I don't necessarily agree that the lady Doctor is (a big) part of the problem, though.
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Old 29th November 2021, 04:50 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The debate about role models in popular culture did not originate with Jordan Peterson. The complaint about role models makes sense in the context of that debate.

I think the question of role models in popular culture is a worthwhile topic of discussion. I don't necessarily agree that the lady Doctor is (a big) part of the problem, though.
It's a little ironic though.

"Can we have some black role models in the media?"

"Shut up wokesters! Your role models should be your parents...ah! Now I see the problem!"

Followed by...

"Oh, the wokesters have stolen our role models! Now boys will grow up criminals!"
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Old 30th November 2021, 05:45 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Oh...so the Jordan Peterson whine. So, how does that make sense?
I have no idea why the guy gets any traction. He is plainly a wingnut and his claims are...well, doesn't matter really. They will all be different tomorrow anyway..
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Old 30th November 2021, 08:22 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I never understood the idea of a "role model". Do people actually look at part of what they think they know about someone else, even when it's a fictional character, and decide to try to act like them? That sounds crazy.
It only sounds crazy, maybe you were just not that type of boy. When I was young we all wanted to be Fonzie when we grew up. We dressed real sharp too.
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Old 30th November 2021, 09:47 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I have no idea why the guy gets any traction. He is plainly a wingnut and his claims are...well, doesn't matter really. They will all be different tomorrow anyway..
Exactly. However he appeals to a certain mindset.
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Old 3rd December 2021, 09:53 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I never understood the idea of a "role model". Do people actually look at part of what they think they know about someone else,... and decide to try to act like them? That sounds crazy.
Not even if it's Truman Capote?
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Old 3rd December 2021, 11:35 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Not even if it's Truman Capote?
The youngest daughter on Family Matters?
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Old 4th December 2021, 03:14 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
When I was young we all wanted to be Fonzie when we grew up.

Short and bald?!
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Old 10th December 2021, 06:57 AM   #66
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No, the toughest and coolest guy in the world, obviously.
Why do you hate short bald people?
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