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Old 11th January 2022, 03:44 AM   #2401
Lukraak_Sisser
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Hello dear friend. If you pay attention, genetics is one of the biological sciences. And I have given your answer in the article on human evolution.
Reminder:Genetics has discovered the structure and functions of each molecule but has not been able to discover the command. This is the great mystery of creation. And it has not been answered yet. Life consists of two subjects, the first is the material structure of the living being and the second is the command in it to find life.
Scientists can make molecules in the laboratory, but how do they make these inanimate molecules alive? This is their knot, and this is the spirit of God who created life. Whatever We Have In Life
The earth we see is the re-creation of the original creation. Not a new creation.
Abiogenesis =/= evolution. Once more you prove you know nothing of this field of science, so why do you use it in your arguments?
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Old 11th January 2022, 04:03 AM   #2402
IanS
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
I:
you are wrong. I do not refer to religious sites for knowledge in the Qur'an. Think realistically.

I do not believe you. Look at your own words above - you are saying that you have not used religious websites for what you believe about the Koran. But I did not ask if you had used those sites for your religious faith in Islam & the Koran...

... what I said is that you are very clearly getting your beliefs about science from religious Islamic Ijaz sources.

The Koran does not contain any description or mention of modern science. But the Islamic Ijaz books and websites do contain all of that, and what you keep claiming about science in the Koran is EXACTLY all the same as those Ijaz books and websites have been claiming and publishing since at least 1976 ... that's almost 50 years before you started to repeat it all here …

… you are now trying to claim that you are the person who discovered “over 100 scientific explanations in the Koran" … but it had all been published in Islamic religious books before you were even born!


You are getting your scientific beliefs from those fundamentalist Islam Ijaz sources. And that is extremely clear!

Last edited by IanS; 11th January 2022 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 11th January 2022, 04:12 PM   #2403
MarkCorrigan
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Heydarian stop ignoring me.
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Old 11th January 2022, 05:26 PM   #2404
abaddon
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Heydarian stop ignoring me.
Fat chance. Heydarian supposes that in lieu of a discussion he can simply blare his crackpot religion and preach at us and somehow we will all convert to islam, because reasons.

But if one takes a moment, one can see what a mess of horror the claimed god is.
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Old 11th January 2022, 09:13 PM   #2405
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Fat chance. Heydarian supposes that in lieu of a discussion he can simply blare his crackpot religion and preach at us and somehow we will all convert to islam, because reasons.

But if one takes a moment, one can see what a mess of horror the claimed god is.

To me the real "mess of horror" is this unbelievably, even inconceivably, muddied and muddled thinking process that is seemingly simply incapable of seeing what is in plain sight and understanding what has been so clearly explained so often. Dishonesty is fine, I mean it's not pretty and might sometimes be evil but deliberate dishonesty one can understand as an unavoidable occasional human trait. But this sheer incapacity to even understand the concept of intellectual integrity, or to even comprehend the most basic principles of a scientific worldview, that darkness of the mind, reduced to incessant sub-human and meaningless gibbering, that to me is the definition of hell. Hell is real enough, and right here. And not just here, unfortunately, although I don't recall having seen such a brazen and, well, distilled example before.

I wonder what the cure to such imbecility might be, generally speaking, or whether the afflicted must necessarily live with this mental fog until they die (by which time they'll have spread the contagion to the next generation). Because this isn't literally imbecility, after all, not actual stupidity, it's something way more different, and twisted, than that.

This thread's good for the lulz, sure, but it's also a deeply disturbing thread. Because this disease seemingly has no cure.
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Old 12th January 2022, 04:19 AM   #2406
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Abiogenesis =/= evolution. Once more you prove you know nothing of this field of science, so why do you use it in your arguments?
Hello dear master. I'm very happy to talk to you. I read the whole abiogenesis article that you said. And I have checked on different sites. In this article, I have fully explained the evolution of living things in this group in 16 messages. As I said, evolution actually started 14 billion years ago during chemical evolution. And in the solar system, and especially the Earth, it has occurred almost 4 billion years ago during various events in the Earth's crust - oceans - atmosphere and ....
In my article, I said that I have referred to the same scientific content of Abiogenesis site. Did you read my article in full? Of course, I'm still looking at other things to do. Although I promised not to "preach" anymore. But I do not give up trying even to understand myself in these beautiful scientific subjects. And I'm always eager to read and learn new science.
In any case, no definitive opinion has yet been made about the life of inanimate matter. And it's an important question that has not been answered. And how inanimate matter came to life is still unknown. I will give you just one example in the following article.

Eugene Koonin said,

Despite considerable experimental and theoretical effort, no compelling scenarios currently exist for the origin of replication and translation, the key processes that together comprise the core of biological systems and the apparent pre-requisite of biological evolution. The RNA World concept might offer the best chance for the resolution of this conundrum but so far cannot adequately account for the emergence of an efficient RNA replicase or the translation system. The MWO ["many worlds in one"] version of the cosmological model of eternal inflation could suggest a way out of this conundrum because, in an infinite multiverse with a finite number of distinct macroscopic histories (each repeated an infinite number of times), emergence of even highly complex systems by chance is not just possible but inevitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
With best regards and good health and success to you and other friends
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:02 AM   #2407
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
I do not believe you. Look at your own words above - you are saying that you have not used religious websites for what you believe about the Koran. But I did not ask if you had used those sites for your religious faith in Islam & the Koran...

... what I said is that you are very clearly getting your beliefs about science from religious Islamic Ijaz sources.

The Koran does not contain any description or mention of modern science. But the Islamic Ijaz books and websites do contain all of that, and what you keep claiming about science in the Koran is EXACTLY all the same as those Ijaz books and websites have been claiming and publishing since at least 1976 ... that's almost 50 years before you started to repeat it all here …

… you are now trying to claim that you are the person who discovered “over 100 scientific explanations in the Koran" … but it had all been published in Islamic religious books before you were even born!


You are getting your scientific beliefs from those fundamentalist Islam Ijaz sources. And that is extremely clear!
1- I do not understand what you mean by this?


2- No. No, I do not use it at all. Of course there is. You are right. But I do not use. And I do not accept. Rather, I receive scientific content through my own reviews on scientific sites and negotiations with relevant experts. These are new theories about science in the Qur'an. Of course, there is old scientific content on the sites you are talking about. But I rejected them. And I do not refer. Have you seen and seen the comprehensiveness of my article on the religious site of the article "Evolution from the Perspective of the Quran"? If so, tell us its address so we can check.

3- You told a good history. How interesting is my age too! Why not. I do not use. Of course, I've seen almost all of these sites you mention. And I read. I like reading. But I did not like any of them. And I refused. My Quranic theories are new. I have no claim. If you have such scientific material in the Qur'an, bring it.

4- No. My Quranic scientific theories are new. If you have the same content as me, bring it. With his address.
5- No. Give reasons and examples for your claim. You will not find my Quranic scientific content in any religious site. Bring it if you have. I have told this to you and other friends many times. I say it again. My Quranic scientific theories are new. Scorpion gave me good advice: "If these are new and the meaning and interpretation of the day of the Qur'an, be careful not to harm me. " Even in my country. he is right. "Being different is always and everywhere a crime."
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:07 AM   #2408
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
I do not believe you. Look at your own words above - you are saying that you have not used religious websites for what you believe about the Koran. But I did not ask if you had used those sites for your religious faith in Islam & the Koran...

... what I said is that you are very clearly getting your beliefs about science from religious Islamic Ijaz sources.

The Koran does not contain any description or mention of modern science. But the Islamic Ijaz books and websites do contain all of that, and what you keep claiming about science in the Koran is EXACTLY all the same as those Ijaz books and websites have been claiming and publishing since at least 1976 ... that's almost 50 years before you started to repeat it all here …

… you are now trying to claim that you are the person who discovered “over 100 scientific explanations in the Koran" … but it had all been published in Islamic religious books before you were even born!


You are getting your scientific beliefs from those fundamentalist Islam Ijaz sources. And that is extremely clear!
Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Heydarian stop ignoring me.
Hello my dear friend. No. I always think about you. You do not know how much I love you? I want to hug you once. And kiss you. I'm serious.
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:11 AM   #2409
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Hello my dear friend. No. I always think about you. You do not know how much I love you? I want to hug you once. And kiss you. I'm serious.
Well that is both creepy and doesn't answer the question I asked you.
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:14 AM   #2410
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Heydarian stop ignoring me.
Hello my dear friend. I always think about you. And I love you so much. I only think of the existence of pure people. Like you are clean. Believe me, I want to hug and kiss you once.
Believe me, I am your friend. I do not know why you do not want to be my friend ?! Authority with yourself. Of course, do not rush, we will meet very soon.
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:27 AM   #2411
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Oh my Darwin!!!

You may be thinking about porn stars with meteoric careers.
Hi dear friend. Welcome to our discussion. You also mentioned a good point. Well, I'm thinking of these two names. And it is in the Quran as well.
Thanks
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:30 AM   #2412
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
OK, I don't care if you die

Do you think your superstitious nonsense is helping?

Nope. You cannot assume that nobody but you has come close to death. Been there, done that. There is no god.

All of those are lies.

You seem quite comfortable with lying your butt off. How come you get to lie?

They don't have appendages.

Wrong. Totally wrong

Cluster? WTF is that? And Jupiter has 4 famous moons, not three. And none of them is called Cluster.

So you agree. Most of the universe will kill us. Clearly it was not "designed" for us. What an incompetent god you have.

What you are spouting is utter nonsense.
No. Why should anyone waste time on that?

Wallow in your own ignorance if you so wish. Just don't attempt to drag others down to your level.


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Old 12th January 2022, 05:31 AM   #2413
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Again, creepy.

Really really creepy.
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Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:38 AM   #2414
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Again, creepy.

Really really creepy.
Wow! Wow! You do not see the reality? You will not find me kinder than me. I'm serious.
Kindness is just my claim.
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:40 AM   #2415
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
You are going to have to stop this. Your posts are becoming outrageous. What you have done above is to present yourself as an expert on science and quantum theory. But you actually have no education in this at all. Actually what you have done (for about the 100th time here!), is to copy huge sections from Islamic I'jaz propaganda websites, and paste them in here ...

... you are repeatedly using your religious Islamic websites as your source of science. But those websites are pure religious dishonest propaganda. And like a lot of other scientifically uneducated Muslims, you believe it all.

If you are going to quote science then (a) you need to get it from genuine independent science sources, such as course textbooks or better still you need to do at least a first degree in physics or chemistry. But whatever you do, DO NOT get your science beliefs from thoroughly dishonest religious propaganda websites. & then paste it all in here. And secondly (b) when you produce any copied claims about science here, you must give a proper full reference to where you got/copied those claims from.
Please read message 2406 carefully. You are wrong.
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:43 AM   #2416
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
There is no command. At a certain level of complexity, chemistry becomes biology. There is no sharp divide, and no special extra ingredient that needs to be added. This has been understood for a long time. That you don't, or refuse to, understand it is nobody's problem but yours.
Please read message 2406 carefully. Despite believing in your honesty. And you speak best of all, but ... You are wrong.
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Old 12th January 2022, 06:33 AM   #2417
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Please read message 2406 carefully.
Message 2406 seems to be a layman's attempt to summarise some of the available scientific evidence and speculation about abiogenesis. It's a simplistic summary, but reasonably accurate. It doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know, and it certainly does not support your claim that there is some magic "command" that had to be issued in order for life to begin.

Quote:
Despite believing in your honesty. And you speak best of all, but ... You are wrong.
I'm pretty sure that my understanding of the science is considerably greater than yours.

The comment by Eugene Koonin is about a part of the abiogenesis process that isn't (yet) completely understood. That gap in our understanding is nowhere near big enough for you to insert your God. Precedent strongly suggests that it is science that will fill it, not ignorant superstition.
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Old 12th January 2022, 06:37 AM   #2418
MarkCorrigan
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Why are you refusing to answer my question and just being creepy in response to my posts Heydarian? It's a yes or no question.
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Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data.
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Old 12th January 2022, 05:08 PM   #2419
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Again, creepy.

Really really creepy.
Oh c'mon, Mark. You know how it gets among those hyper-orthodox Muslims.

We don't call 'em a bunch of tight-asses for.nothing.
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Old 13th January 2022, 01:44 AM   #2420
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Oh c'mon, Mark. You know how it gets among those hyper-orthodox Muslims.

We don't call 'em a bunch of tight-asses for.nothing.
The Prophet himself took a young boy as a 'companion': I guess heydarian is just following his example.
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Old 13th January 2022, 04:22 AM   #2421
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
1- I do not understand what you mean by this?


2- No. No, I do not use it at all. Of course there is. You are right. But I do not use. And I do not accept. Rather, I receive scientific content through my own reviews on scientific sites and negotiations with relevant experts. These are new theories about science in the Qur'an. Of course, there is old scientific content on the sites you are talking about. But I rejected them. And I do not refer. Have you seen and seen the comprehensiveness of my article on the religious site of the article "Evolution from the Perspective of the Quran"? If so, tell us its address so we can check.

OK, so above you do admit that you are aware of those Ijaz websites and books. You have read them. And you do know what they say. You admit that.

You therefore know, and everyone here knows, that those Ijaz sources make all the same claims that you have repeatedly made to tell us that the Koran contains scientific descriptions of what a human foetus is like, how God made humans from mud, how it describes the Big bang, quantum theory, neutron stars, Noah and his Arc, human evolution, relativity theory etc. etc., ... those are all the exact same claims that you have made here 100 times or more aren't they? And before you give any other answer, the true answer is "Yes", you most definitely have been repeating all those same claims of "scientific miracles in the Koran".

You claim that you have obtained those same beliefs from some other scientific reviews on some other websites and from some other supposed "scientific experts" ... OK, so why did you not quote who those sources are? What are those sources that you used? Please name the websites, books and so-called "experts". You have the cheek here to demand that I “bring his address” for the Ijaz sources that I mentioned to you (there are many hundreds of them, and you know that very well, despite telling me that I must “bring his address"), and yet you yourself produce no such references or links for what you just claimed to be your other sources!


Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post

3- You told a good history. How interesting is my age too! Why not. I do not use. Of course, I've seen almost all of these sites you mention. And I read. I like reading. But I did not like any of them. And I refused. My Quranic theories are new. I have no claim. If you have such scientific material in the Qur'an, bring it.

There is no such scientific material in your Koran!, and everyone here has been telling you that for hundreds of posts now! So why are you asking me to bring you scientific material from your Koran?

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
4- No. My Quranic scientific theories are new. If you have the same content as me, bring it. With his address.
Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
5- No. Give reasons and examples for your claim. You will not find my Quranic scientific content in any religious site. Bring it if you have. I have told this to you and other friends many times. I say it again. My Quranic scientific theories are new. Scorpion gave me good advice: "If these are new and the meaning and interpretation of the day of the Qur'an, be careful not to harm me. " Even in my country. he is right. "Being different is always and everywhere a crime."

I just explained above that your claims of finding science in the Koran are all exactly the same claims that were made decades ago by Islamic fundamentalists in the so-called Ijaz sources. See below ...

Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
4- No. My Quranic scientific theories are new. If you have the same content as me, bring it. With his address.

OK here is a list of various sites and books that make all the same claims that you have been making -

1 first see this quite general article explaining how various claims that you have made, such as claims about the Big Bang, Quantum Theory, Relativity, Pulsars, Embryology, claims about Noah and his Arc, about human Evolution , Abiogenesis, etc. etc etc., and why such claims are simply part of a widespread bogus attempt within Islam to claim modern science in the 7th*century Koran -

https://www.newstatesman.com/uncateg...lim-scientific

2 next see the link below for a discussion of most (if not all) of the claims you have made about science in the Koran, and here with a long list of links to references and explanations for why all such Islamic claims of science are bogus -

https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/index.htm

3 OK, next here's a link to a YouTube film producing all the same bogus Islamic propaganda as you are claiming about things like the human embryo and the expanding universe etc. … as you must very well know, YouTube is awash with such Ijaz claims of “scientific miracles in the Koran” -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69AmLbNeNf0

The link below is a long YouTube film praising Maurice Bucaille as the 1976 originator of all these Ijaz beliefs about science in the Koran … it also talks a lot about the Egyptian mummy that you also went on about for many pages -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhL6Qal-KY

The next YouTube link is from an Islamic fundamentalist like yourself, claiming to refute what various other non-Muslims have shown as bogus claims of science in the Koran (it should be obvious that the Muslim guy in this film is completely unconvincing and a demented nutty religious fanatic … but look also below the video at the long list of comments from delusional Muslims nutcases praising the guy in the film as a brilliant revealer of Islamic truth) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6gKNtKoAOM

Next YouTube link below is from an ex-Muslim explaining why 43 different claims of science in the Koran are clearly bogus fundamentalist religious nonsense -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677lMXleqWI

Below is a link to an Amazon page produced by simply typing a search term for “science in the Quran” (if you go to Islamic bookshops you can find hundreds of such books, videos and DVD's etc., proclaiming all the same untrue religious nonsense about “scientific miracles in the Quran”, ie all the exact same claims that you have been flooding this forum with for months -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=science...ref=nb_sb_noss

If the above links, references, citations (ie “his address” in your language) are not clear enough for you, then below is a quote from Wikipedia on this subject of claimed miraculous science in the Koran, followed by a long list of links to references and articles making all the exact same claims that you have been making -


Here are a few Ijaz sources -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_miracles
Ijaz movement[edit]
Further information:*Quran and miracles §*Claimed scientific miracles
Starting the 1970s and 80s a "popular literature known as*ijaz" and often called "Scientific miracles in the Quran", argued that the Quran abounds with "scientific facts" centuries before their discovery by science and thus demonstrating that the Quran must be of divine origin.[27]*Among these miracles alleged by enthusiasts of the movement to be found in the Quran are "everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells".[4]*"Widespread and well-funded"[28]*with "millions" from Saudi Arabia,[4]*the literature can be found in Muslim bookstores and on websites and television programs of Islamic preachers.[4]*According to author*Ziauddin Sardar, the movement has created a "global craze in Muslim societies".[4]

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientifi...s_in_the_Quran
1.2Philosophical concerns with methodology
2Purported scientific miracles
2.1Quranic Miracle: Universe is steadily expanding
2.1.1Criticism
2.1.2Universe consists of "Space", while Quranic heaven is a solid canopy which could not expand
2.2The Big Bang
2.3A universe from smoke
2.4Black holes and pulsars
2.5The speed of light
2.6Seven heavens, seven earths
2.7The descent of Iron
2.8Chest-tightening in hypoxic environments
2.9Mountains stabilize the Earth
2.10Diminishing land
2.11Clay humans
2.12Semen production
2.13Embryology
2.14All things in pairs
2.15Lying forelocks
2.16Fresh water-salt water barriers


https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientifi...yAAEgKfm_D_BwE
Contents
1Astronomy
1.1Geocentricism
1.2Setting and rising place of the sun
1.3Earth and heavens created in six days
1.4Earth created before stars
1.4.1Earth and heavens torn apart
1.4.2Heaven made from smoke
1.5Seven Earths
1.6Seven heavens
1.7Similar size and distance of the sun and moon
1.8Moon split in two
1.9Nature of the moon's light
1.10Meteors as stars fired at devils
1.11The sky/heaven as a ceiling
1.12The sky as a guarded ceiling
1.13The sky as something that can fall
1.14Heavens to be rolled up
1.15Stars as something that fall
1.16The cause of shadows changing length
1.17Disregard of North and South Poles
2Biology
2.1Evolution
2.1.1Humans created from clay
2.1.2Adam and Eve
2.2Embryology
2.2.1Sperm originating between the backbone and ribs
2.2.2Embryo forming from semen
2.2.3Disregard of female ovum
2.2.4Humans created from a clot of blood
2.2.5Gender decided at clot stage
2.2.6Bones formed before flesh
2.3All organisms created in pairs
2.4Fetus in three layers of darkness
2.5Functions of the heart
2.6Source and purity of Milk
3Geology and meteorology
3.1Flat Earth
3.1.1Facing toward Mecca
3.1.2Fasting and prayer requirements near the Poles
3.1.3Earth as spread out and flat
3.1.4Earth as like carpet
3.1.5Earth as like a couch
3.1.6Earth as like a bed
3.1.7Earth stretched out
3.1.8Earth as a level plain
3.2Permanent barrier between fresh and salt water
3.3Mountains prevent the earth from shaking
3.4Mountains cast upon Earth
3.5Chests contract with altitude
3.6Earthquakes as a punishment
3.7Disregard of evaporation in water cycle
3.8Mountains of hail in the sky
3.9Allah smites with thunderbolts
4Zoology
4.1Ants converse and recognize humans
4.2Four types of cattle
4.3Horses created as transportation
4.4All animals live in communities
4.5Bird flight as a miracle
5History
5.1Massive wall of iron
5.2Mary as part of the Trinity
5.3Mary as Miriam
5.4Ezra as the son of God in Jewish doctrine
5.5David invented coats of mail
5.6Crucifixions in ancient Egypt
5.7The singular Pharaoh
5.8Samaritans in ancient Egypt
5.9Noah's worldwide flood
5.10Flood waters boiled from an oven
5.11Noah's ark holding every species
6Sociology
6.1Linguistics
6.2Arabic as eminently accessible
7Miracles and myths
7.1Humans turned apes
7.2Mooing statue
7.3Hordes trapped by iron wall
7.4Supernatural food
7.5Stick turned serpent
7.6Army of genies and birds
7.7Living inside a big fish
7.8Buraq, the winged horse
7.9Speaking body parts
7.10Sea split in half
7.11Manipulating the wind
7.12Testimony of a dead man
7.13Mountains and birds sing psalms
8Other
8.1Nonmathematical hereditary laws
8.2Lying forelocks
9See Also
10References

https://islamhouse.com/en/category/2...eos/showall/1/
Click the video links in that above reference.
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Old Today, 03:28 AM   #2422
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
To me the real "mess of horror" is this unbelievably, even inconceivably, muddied and muddled thinking process that is seemingly simply incapable of seeing what is in plain sight and understanding what has been so clearly explained so often. Dishonesty is fine, I mean it's not pretty and might sometimes be evil but deliberate dishonesty one can understand as an unavoidable occasional human trait. But this sheer incapacity to even understand the concept of intellectual integrity, or to even comprehend the most basic principles of a scientific worldview, that darkness of the mind, reduced to incessant sub-human and meaningless gibbering, that to me is the definition of hell. Hell is real enough, and right here. And not just here, unfortunately, although I don't recall having seen such a brazen and, well, distilled example before.

I wonder what the cure to such imbecility might be, generally speaking, or whether the afflicted must necessarily live with this mental fog until they die (by which time they'll have spread the contagion to the next generation). Because this isn't literally imbecility, after all, not actual stupidity, it's something way more different, and twisted, than that.

This thread's good for the lulz, sure, but it's also a deeply disturbing thread. Because this disease seemingly has no cure.
Hello dear professor. Haven't you been for a while ?! We miss you. I read your beautiful text in full. Your comment is a bit harsh for criticizing ideas, Master. Of course, I still do not know if you mean this message of our friend Abaddon or me. If you mean me, I must say; This is my opinion about God and the Qur'an. My opinion is different. Is it wrong to have different opinions with others ?! Don't we live in a free global village? I think we should allow everyone to express their ideas completely freely. Is not that right, Master?
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Old Today, 03:45 AM   #2423
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Why are you refusing to answer my question and just being creepy in response to my posts Heydarian? It's a yes or no question.
Hi dear friend. which question?! I do not see a question! I advise you to get rid of fear. Nothing in the world is scary and everything is beautiful. The only thing that can be scary is inside us. The only way to not be afraid of ourselves is to control and monitor it. Be mindful of ourselves. Everything is beautiful. If I think like you, because I am a Muslim and I speak only among hundreds of infidels and I fully express my beliefs, I should be afraid of you. But I have no fear.
And I see you as a friend. Really friend. We only have a slight difference of opinion. We can get along if we want to. Is not that so? Let's put aside a little bit of bias. I do not see the point of collision between you and me. We walk in parallel. And this is a beautiful thought. Is not that so?
Never be afraid. Be brave. Stand like a mountain.
These were not sermons or advices. Just a friendly chat. My arms are open to everyone.
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Old Today, 04:15 AM   #2424
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Message 2406 seems to be a layman's attempt to summarise some of the available scientific evidence and speculation about abiogenesis. It's a simplistic summary, but reasonably accurate. It doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know, and it certainly does not support your claim that there is some magic "command" that had to be issued in order for life to begin.


I'm pretty sure that my understanding of the science is considerably greater than yours.

The comment by Eugene Koonin is about a part of the abiogenesis process that isn't (yet) completely understood. That gap in our understanding is nowhere near big enough for you to insert your God. Precedent strongly suggests that it is science that will fill it, not ignorant superstition.
Hello dear pixel42. Your opinion is completely respected. You mentioned good points. Thank you.
- But .... science has not yet given an answer to how inanimate matter came to life. God claims in the Qur'an that My command has revived inanimate matter. (Approximately 3 billion years ago in low-potency hot pottery Low water) We do not yet have a second claim for this claim.Finally, or should we wait to see if science can answer this question? Or accept God's claim. I personally accept and love God's claim. I have seen things that you and no one else has seen.
- I assure you that you are absolutely right about this. Because I see you only scientifically capable. And your scientific understanding is higher than mine. I'm proud of you too.
- I advise you to be patient in judging only on the basis of science. And do not rush. Should we wait to see if science will fill this gap? Of course, rest assured, I fully accept science and the advancement of science. And I'm proud of that. But I am not in a hurry to find and see the answer to these two important questions in the universe. (The Revive of inanimate matter - the creation of the single from nothing - is both claimed by God to be my work. And I accept God's claim. But I am waiting for scientific proof. Will science be able to answer these two questions? There is no answer yet )
And I will not judge soon. At the same time, I firmly stand on the answer to these two questions. Unless science proves otherwise to me. I have no prejudice.
Good luck

Last edited by heydarian saeed; Today at 04:27 AM.
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Old Today, 04:30 AM   #2425
Pixel42
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Should we wait to see if science can answer this question? Or accept God's claim the claim of some guy who wrote a book centuries ago.
In the words of Sir David Attenborough: "The correct scientific response to anything that is not understood is always to look harder for the explanation, not give up and assume a supernatural cause".

Our ancestors didn't understand why the rains sometimes failed so they assumed a supernatural cause and did rain dances to please the the rain God. Were they right?

Our ancestors didn't understand why the nearby mountain rumbled so they assumed a supernatural cause and sacrificed goats to the volcano God. Were they right?

History is one example after another of people assuming supernatural causes for anything they didn't understand, and eventually being proved wrong. The chances of this being the first time in history where those who opt to accept the supernatural explanation are finally proved right is so small as to be negligible. The smart money is always on science.
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Old Today, 04:33 AM   #2426
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Hello dear professor. Haven't you been for a while ?! We miss you. I read your beautiful text in full. Your comment is a bit harsh for criticizing ideas, Master. Of course, I still do not know if you mean this message of our friend Abaddon or me. If you mean me, I must say; This is my opinion about God and the Qur'an. My opinion is different. Is it wrong to have different opinions with others ?! Don't we live in a free global village? I think we should allow everyone to express their ideas completely freely. Is not that right, Master?
I am not and will never be "your friend". Do not ever again make any such claim.
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Old Today, 05:11 AM   #2427
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by IanS View Post
OK, so above you do admit that you are aware of those Ijaz websites and books. You have read them. And you do know what they say. You admit that.

You therefore know, and everyone here knows, that those Ijaz sources make all the same claims that you have repeatedly made to tell us that the Koran contains scientific descriptions of what a human foetus is like, how God made humans from mud, how it describes the Big bang, quantum theory, neutron stars, Noah and his Arc, human evolution, relativity theory etc. etc., ... those are all the exact same claims that you have made here 100 times or more aren't they? And before you give any other answer, the true answer is "Yes", you most definitely have been repeating all those same claims of "scientific miracles in the Koran".

You claim that you have obtained those same beliefs from some other scientific reviews on some other websites and from some other supposed "scientific experts" ... OK, so why did you not quote who those sources are? What are those sources that you used? Please name the websites, books and so-called "experts". You have the cheek here to demand that I “bring his address” for the Ijaz sources that I mentioned to you (there are many hundreds of them, and you know that very well, despite telling me that I must “bring his address"), and yet you yourself produce no such references or links for what you just claimed to be your other sources!





There is no such scientific material in your Koran!, and everyone here has been telling you that for hundreds of posts now! So why are you asking me to bring you scientific material from your Koran?






I just explained above that your claims of finding science in the Koran are all exactly the same claims that were made decades ago by Islamic fundamentalists in the so-called Ijaz sources. See below ...




OK here is a list of various sites and books that make all the same claims that you have been making -

1 first see this quite general article explaining how various claims that you have made, such as claims about the Big Bang, Quantum Theory, Relativity, Pulsars, Embryology, claims about Noah and his Arc, about human Evolution , Abiogenesis, etc. etc etc., and why such claims are simply part of a widespread bogus attempt within Islam to claim modern science in the 7th*century Koran -

https://www.newstatesman.com/uncateg...lim-scientific

2 next see the link below for a discussion of most (if not all) of the claims you have made about science in the Koran, and here with a long list of links to references and explanations for why all such Islamic claims of science are bogus -

https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/index.htm

3 OK, next here's a link to a YouTube film producing all the same bogus Islamic propaganda as you are claiming about things like the human embryo and the expanding universe etc. … as you must very well know, YouTube is awash with such Ijaz claims of “scientific miracles in the Koran” -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69AmLbNeNf0

The link below is a long YouTube film praising Maurice Bucaille as the 1976 originator of all these Ijaz beliefs about science in the Koran … it also talks a lot about the Egyptian mummy that you also went on about for many pages -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhL6Qal-KY

The next YouTube link is from an Islamic fundamentalist like yourself, claiming to refute what various other non-Muslims have shown as bogus claims of science in the Koran (it should be obvious that the Muslim guy in this film is completely unconvincing and a demented nutty religious fanatic … but look also below the video at the long list of comments from delusional Muslims nutcases praising the guy in the film as a brilliant revealer of Islamic truth) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6gKNtKoAOM

Next YouTube link below is from an ex-Muslim explaining why 43 different claims of science in the Koran are clearly bogus fundamentalist religious nonsense -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=677lMXleqWI

Below is a link to an Amazon page produced by simply typing a search term for “science in the Quran” (if you go to Islamic bookshops you can find hundreds of such books, videos and DVD's etc., proclaiming all the same untrue religious nonsense about “scientific miracles in the Quran”, ie all the exact same claims that you have been flooding this forum with for months -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=science...ref=nb_sb_noss

If the above links, references, citations (ie “his address” in your language) are not clear enough for you, then below is a quote from Wikipedia on this subject of claimed miraculous science in the Koran, followed by a long list of links to references and articles making all the exact same claims that you have been making -


Here are a few Ijaz sources -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_miracles
Ijaz movement[edit]
Further information:*Quran and miracles §*Claimed scientific miracles
Starting the 1970s and 80s a "popular literature known as*ijaz" and often called "Scientific miracles in the Quran", argued that the Quran abounds with "scientific facts" centuries before their discovery by science and thus demonstrating that the Quran must be of divine origin.[27]*Among these miracles alleged by enthusiasts of the movement to be found in the Quran are "everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells".[4]*"Widespread and well-funded"[28]*with "millions" from Saudi Arabia,[4]*the literature can be found in Muslim bookstores and on websites and television programs of Islamic preachers.[4]*According to author*Ziauddin Sardar, the movement has created a "global craze in Muslim societies".[4]

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientifi...s_in_the_Quran
1.2Philosophical concerns with methodology
2Purported scientific miracles
2.1Quranic Miracle: Universe is steadily expanding
2.1.1Criticism
2.1.2Universe consists of "Space", while Quranic heaven is a solid canopy which could not expand
2.2The Big Bang
2.3A universe from smoke
2.4Black holes and pulsars
2.5The speed of light
2.6Seven heavens, seven earths
2.7The descent of Iron
2.8Chest-tightening in hypoxic environments
2.9Mountains stabilize the Earth
2.10Diminishing land
2.11Clay humans
2.12Semen production
2.13Embryology
2.14All things in pairs
2.15Lying forelocks
2.16Fresh water-salt water barriers


https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientifi...yAAEgKfm_D_BwE
Contents
1Astronomy
1.1Geocentricism
1.2Setting and rising place of the sun
1.3Earth and heavens created in six days
1.4Earth created before stars
1.4.1Earth and heavens torn apart
1.4.2Heaven made from smoke
1.5Seven Earths
1.6Seven heavens
1.7Similar size and distance of the sun and moon
1.8Moon split in two
1.9Nature of the moon's light
1.10Meteors as stars fired at devils
1.11The sky/heaven as a ceiling
1.12The sky as a guarded ceiling
1.13The sky as something that can fall
1.14Heavens to be rolled up
1.15Stars as something that fall
1.16The cause of shadows changing length
1.17Disregard of North and South Poles
2Biology
2.1Evolution
2.1.1Humans created from clay
2.1.2Adam and Eve
2.2Embryology
2.2.1Sperm originating between the backbone and ribs
2.2.2Embryo forming from semen
2.2.3Disregard of female ovum
2.2.4Humans created from a clot of blood
2.2.5Gender decided at clot stage
2.2.6Bones formed before flesh
2.3All organisms created in pairs
2.4Fetus in three layers of darkness
2.5Functions of the heart
2.6Source and purity of Milk
3Geology and meteorology
3.1Flat Earth
3.1.1Facing toward Mecca
3.1.2Fasting and prayer requirements near the Poles
3.1.3Earth as spread out and flat
3.1.4Earth as like carpet
3.1.5Earth as like a couch
3.1.6Earth as like a bed
3.1.7Earth stretched out
3.1.8Earth as a level plain
3.2Permanent barrier between fresh and salt water
3.3Mountains prevent the earth from shaking
3.4Mountains cast upon Earth
3.5Chests contract with altitude
3.6Earthquakes as a punishment
3.7Disregard of evaporation in water cycle
3.8Mountains of hail in the sky
3.9Allah smites with thunderbolts
4Zoology
4.1Ants converse and recognize humans
4.2Four types of cattle
4.3Horses created as transportation
4.4All animals live in communities
4.5Bird flight as a miracle
5History
5.1Massive wall of iron
5.2Mary as part of the Trinity
5.3Mary as Miriam
5.4Ezra as the son of God in Jewish doctrine
5.5David invented coats of mail
5.6Crucifixions in ancient Egypt
5.7The singular Pharaoh
5.8Samaritans in ancient Egypt
5.9Noah's worldwide flood
5.10Flood waters boiled from an oven
5.11Noah's ark holding every species
6Sociology
6.1Linguistics
6.2Arabic as eminently accessible
7Miracles and myths
7.1Humans turned apes
7.2Mooing statue
7.3Hordes trapped by iron wall
7.4Supernatural food
7.5Stick turned serpent
7.6Army of genies and birds
7.7Living inside a big fish
7.8Buraq, the winged horse
7.9Speaking body parts
7.10Sea split in half
7.11Manipulating the wind
7.12Testimony of a dead man
7.13Mountains and birds sing psalms
8Other
8.1Nonmathematical hereditary laws
8.2Lying forelocks
9See Also
10References

https://islamhouse.com/en/category/2...eos/showall/1/
Click the video links in that above reference.
- Hi Professor. Thank you very much for your efforts in providing these Islamic Quranic sites. I have seen almost all of this. But it is old and it has been said according to the old perception. And in some places it is like superstition. And has not been thoroughly investigated. That's why I do not choose these sites.
- I said in a message after the article "Proof of the supernatural based on the Qur'an": I am correcting many of my views on scientific content in the Qur'an. The most important thing is that there is no supernatural in the Qur'an. In the Qur'an, he only talks about matter and the material world. We have only one more universe. What is said in the Qur'an about the Day of Judgment and the Hereafter and other things beyond is all in this world.
- Fixed and ground axis are obsolete. And it is not in the Quran. All the scientific contents of the Qur'an should be examined on the basis of modern science. For example, Doomsday, the Hereafter, Hell, and Heaven can all be examined in terms of quantum physics. And it is in the Quran. All the sites you mentioned are based on theoretical physics and are not responsive.
- I mentioned the address of one of the scientific sites I used on "Evolution from the Perspective of the Qur'an" in message 2406.
- Do you have enough fluency in Arabic and Quran? To see the scientific content in the Qur'an, you must be familiar with the Arabic and Qur'anic languages, as well as the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an. If you have, then you can see science well in the Qur'an.
- Up-to-date scientific content in the Qur'an is not a claim. There really is. But unfortunately, these sites that you provided have not been studied according to modern science and accuracy. That's why I did not choose. Updated scientific sites and all in Latin. And then it is examined and interpreted with Quranic words in the relevant verse and surah. Rest assured that everything I say is according to the knowledge of the day and the study in the Qur'an. And the Qur'an confirms it. This is a new kind of interpretation according to modern science. You have not seen it anywhere and therefore you do not know and it is strange to you. You are right. Because it's weird. The Quran is a book of wonders. Be sure.
Thank you very much for your efforts.
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Old Today, 05:19 AM   #2428
heydarian saeed
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
I am not and will never be "your friend". Do not ever again make any such claim.
Your gaze is short, my dear friend. Look away. Your horizon is close.
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Old Today, 05:24 AM   #2429
abaddon
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
Your gaze is short, my dear friend. Look away. Your horizon is close.
Incoherent.
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Old Today, 05:27 AM   #2430
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
In the words of Sir David Attenborough: "The correct scientific response to anything that is not understood is always to look harder for the explanation, not give up and assume a supernatural cause".

Our ancestors didn't understand why the rains sometimes failed so they assumed a supernatural cause and did rain dances to please the the rain God. Were they right?

Our ancestors didn't understand why the nearby mountain rumbled so they assumed a supernatural cause and sacrificed goats to the volcano God. Were they right?

History is one example after another of people assuming supernatural causes for anything they didn't understand, and eventually being proved wrong. The chances of this being the first time in history where those who opt to accept the supernatural explanation are finally proved right is so small as to be negligible. The smart money is always on science.
- Exactly. We must not give up. We must continue our scientific research to get the correct and complete answer.
- No. It is a superstition. I do not accept at all.
- No. It is a superstition. I do not accept at all.
- There is no supernatural. Whatever is in the material world. God is also in the material world. I do not seek God in the skys. This is a superstition. God is here. And closer to us than the jugular vein !!!
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Old Today, 05:31 AM   #2431
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Incoherent.
Please rest. You need to rest. I also went to rest. Bye
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Old Today, 05:40 AM   #2432
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
- Exactly. We must not give up. We must continue our scientific research to get the correct and complete answer.
- No. It is a superstition. I do not accept at all.
- No. It is a superstition. I do not accept at all.
- There is no supernatural. Whatever is in the material world. God is also in the material world. I do not seek God in the skys. This is a superstition. God is here. And closer to us than the jugular vein !!!
Your god is a superstion no different from the rest.
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Old Today, 06:37 AM   #2433
IanS
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
- Hi Professor. Thank you very much for your efforts in providing these Islamic Quranic sites. I have seen almost all of this. But it is old and it has been said according to the old perception. And in some places it is like superstition. And has not been thoroughly investigated. That's why I do not choose these sites.
- I said in a message after the article "Proof of the supernatural based on the Qur'an": I am correcting many of my views on scientific content in the Qur'an. The most important thing is that there is no supernatural in the Qur'an. In the Qur'an, he only talks about matter and the material world. We have only one more universe. What is said in the Qur'an about the Day of Judgment and the Hereafter and other things beyond is all in this world.
- Fixed and ground axis are obsolete. And it is not in the Quran. All the scientific contents of the Qur'an should be examined on the basis of modern science. For example, Doomsday, the Hereafter, Hell, and Heaven can all be examined in terms of quantum physics. And it is in the Quran. All the sites you mentioned are based on theoretical physics and are not responsive.
- I mentioned the address of one of the scientific sites I used on "Evolution from the Perspective of the Qur'an" in message 2406.
- Do you have enough fluency in Arabic and Quran? To see the scientific content in the Qur'an, you must be familiar with the Arabic and Qur'anic languages, as well as the translation and interpretation of the Qur'an. If you have, then you can see science well in the Qur'an.
- Up-to-date scientific content in the Qur'an is not a claim. There really is. But unfortunately, these sites that you provided have not been studied according to modern science and accuracy. That's why I did not choose. Updated scientific sites and all in Latin. And then it is examined and interpreted with Quranic words in the relevant verse and surah. Rest assured that everything I say is according to the knowledge of the day and the study in the Qur'an. And the Qur'an confirms it. This is a new kind of interpretation according to modern science. You have not seen it anywhere and therefore you do not know and it is strange to you. You are right. Because it's weird. The Quran is a book of wonders. Be sure.
Thank you very much for your efforts.

No, absolutely not! Those references that I just listed for you, make all the same claims that you have made, about all the same things you have claimed as science in the Koran. You are just copying them.

There is no science in the Koran. And you have not shown any science in the Koran.

All you have done is claimed that ordinary sentences with ordinary words in the Koran, actually mean all sorts of modern science ... but you have no justification, no evidence, & no scientific education for any of your claims at all except your fanatical religious belief.

Can you produce any genuine scientific research paper from any genuine science journal, where the paper claims that the 7th century Koran describes any of the science that you have claimed (e.g. black holes, pulsars, evolution, relativity theory, quantum theory, 900 year old Noah, Arc at the top of a mountain etc. etc.)?

Why are none of your claims ever reported in any real genuine science research papers claiming to show that the Koran described the science 1400 years ago? It's not there, none of it! None of your claims are supported anywhere in any of the very science papers that have studied all these things.

The reason it's not there is because it's not true. None of your claims about science in the Koran are true. They are just the same old ravings of Islamic religious fanatics who desperately want to show a reason to believe in their invisible God.
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Old Today, 07:04 AM   #2434
Pixel42
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Originally Posted by heydarian saeed View Post
- No. It is a superstition. I do not accept at all.
- There is no supernatural. Whatever is in the material world. God is also in the material world.
God is a supernatural explanation of natural phenomena, whether that natural phenomenon be rain, volcanos or the Big Bang. If you reject superstition and the supernatural then you reject any and all gods.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural

Quote:
Definition of supernatural

1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe
especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
When we have a natural explanation of a phenomenon we have no need to imagine the existence of a god to explain it.
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Old Today, 07:10 AM   #2435
MarkCorrigan
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
This is gibberish.

Do you think biological evolution has an end goal?
This was my question. You kept ignoring it.
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Old Today, 08:45 AM   #2436
Mojo
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Once more you prove you know nothing of this field of science…

Of course he knows nothing about science, he gets his information about it from the Quran.
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