Because You Know Its Coming: The Kim Jung Il Conspiracies

LightinDarkness · 18th December 2011, 10:21 PM

You just know the tinfoil hat brigade is going to have a field day with the news about the death of Kim Jung Il. Over on GLP and ATS the kooks are ready dreaming up grand conspiracies, but nothing beyond their normal stupidity so far. If anyone happens to find any of them particularly hilarious and over the top, let us know.

Obviousman · 18th December 2011, 10:27 PM

I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one:

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son

My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless.

They're no fun anymore at BAUT.

JamesB · 18th December 2011, 11:22 PM

He was killed because he demanded too much to be in Team America II.

Obviousman · 18th December 2011, 11:33 PM

fuelair · 19th December 2011, 12:24 AM

No conspiracies so far - well, except for the killed by Team America over the re:boot of their franchise.
But, hey, ding, dong the bitch is dead!!! Good riddance/bad rubbish and may his son and guards go with him soonest!!

Robrob · 19th December 2011, 12:33 AM

Eventually it will be America's fault.

Harpo · 19th December 2011, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by robrob

eventually it will be ~~america's~~ the jews fault.

ftfy

SpitfireIX · 19th December 2011, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Obviousman

I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one:

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son

My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless.

They're no fun anymore at BAUT.

Yeah, I know; that's one of the reasons I don't post there very often anymore.

mercatormac · 19th December 2011, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Obviousman

I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one:

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son

My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless.

They're no fun anymore at BAUT.

Well it doesn't have much to do with astronomy, does it?
You should have suggested that his son bashed in his head with a meteorite.

SpitfireIX · 19th December 2011, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by mercatormac

Well it doesn't have much to do with astronomy, does it?
You should have suggested that his son bashed in his head with a meteorite.

A much better idea: The Chinese whacked him because he found out they're planning to fake a moon mission and they were afraid he'd talk.

Horatius · 19th December 2011, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

A much better idea: The Chinese whacked him because he found out they're planning to fake a moon mission and they were afraid he'd talk.

No, no, he was planning his own fake moon mission, and they didn't want him making mistakes that would be obviously different from the mistakes they planned to make.

When dealing with NK, the crazier, the better.

SpitfireIX · 19th December 2011, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

No, no, he was planning his own fake moon mission, and they didn't want him making mistakes that would be obviously different from the mistakes they planned to make.

When dealing with NK, the crazier, the better.

You're right. That's even better.

coalesce · 19th December 2011, 01:08 PM

It's all Hans Brix's fault, anyway.

Michael

A Laughing Baby · 19th December 2011, 01:24 PM

Since Kim Jong Il was the largest single purchaser of Hennessy, it was a faked death so that he could hang out and drink with Tupac (who also faked his death for Hennessy drinking purposes).

little grey rabbit · 19th December 2011, 02:22 PM

While I don't believe there is a conspiracy about Kim Jung Il's death - speculation on his health have been circulating for several years now.

However, if I were to make a conspiracy theory, I think James has hit the nail on the head

Originally Posted by JamesB

He was killed because he demanded too much to be in Team America II.

News reports indicate that he was on the verge of signing an agreement resolving tensions and accessing increased deliveries of food aid. As North Korea serves a very important functional role in the international system - that of the dangerous unpredictable nuclear power, capable of delivering nuclear missiles to half the world - any signs of a rapprochement to the rest of the world has to be fought.

Even in Australia we use the "threat" of nuclear attack from North Korea to integrate ourselves into America's satellite defence system. The military-industrial complex can not survive without exciting wicked villains and their viability and villain-ness has to be protected at all costs. And any North Korea that shows even the slightest signs of abandoning role assigned to that country must be ruthlessly eliminated - if nothing more than to encourage the others.

Obviousman · 19th December 2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by A Laughing Baby

Since Kim Jong Il was the largest single purchaser of Hennessy, it was a faked death so that he could hang out and drink with Tupac (who also faked his death for Hennessy drinking purposes).

Oooh, I like that one.

Alareth · 19th December 2011, 07:34 PM

He's filming in an undisclosed location:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Sam.I.Am · 19th December 2011, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

While I don't believe there is a conspiracy about Kim Jung Il's death - speculation on his health have been circulating for several years now.

However, if I were to make a conspiracy theory, I think James has hit the nail on the head

News reports indicate that he was on the verge of signing an agreement resolving tensions and accessing increased deliveries of food aid. As North Korea serves a very important functional role in the international system - that of the dangerous unpredictable nuclear power, capable of delivering nuclear missiles to half the world - any signs of a rapprochement to the rest of the world has to be fought.

Even in Australia we use the "threat" of nuclear attack from North Korea to integrate ourselves into America's satellite defence system. The military-industrial complex can not survive without exciting wicked villains and their viability and villain-ness has to be protected at all costs. And any North Korea that shows even the slightest signs of abandoning role assigned to that country must be ruthlessly eliminated - if nothing more than to encourage the others.

Uhhh. No. Just no. Best Korea hasn't demonstrated that they have missiles with enough range to even come close to that, much less that they have developed a warhead capable of being mounted on a ballistic missile.

Australia's biggest worry on that front would probably be China (and maybe India although that's not very likely at all), not North Korea. Australia's sphere of influence over the South Pacific and the Indian Ocean are the only reason why they would even be a target in the first place. During the Cold War they were a target of the Soviets only because of their ability to support their allies naval warships not unlike what happened in WWII.

Best Korea has no blue water navy to speak of and other than some oil tankers that skirt through northern Indonesia there's nothing of vital importance to them even close to Australia.

Robrob · 19th December 2011, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

As North Korea serves a very important functional role in the international system - that of the dangerous unpredictable nuclear power, capable of delivering nuclear missiles to half the world

What, by boat?

Scott Sommers · 20th December 2011, 02:19 AM

I have proof that it was inside job. From the NY Times,

Quote:

Kim Jong-il, the enigmatic North Korean leader, died on a train at 8:30 a.m. Saturday in his country. Forty-eight hours later, officials in South Korea still did not know anything about it — to say nothing of Washington, where the State Department acknowledged “press reporting” of Mr. Kim’s death well after North Korean state media had already announced it.

What more proof do you that it was an inside job than when the State Department says they were taken by surprise? In fact, it's the only proof you need. And any other facts that are presented to the contrary are clearly fake.

little grey rabbit · 20th December 2011, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am

Uhhh. No. Just no. Best Korea hasn't demonstrated that they have missiles with enough range to even come close to that, much less that they have developed a warhead capable of being mounted on a ballistic missile.

Australia's biggest worry on that front would probably be China (and maybe India although that's not very likely at all), not North Korea. Australia's sphere of influence over the South Pacific and the Indian Ocean are the only reason why they would even be a target in the first place. During the Cold War they were a target of the Soviets only because of their ability to support their allies naval warships not unlike what happened in WWII.

Best Korea has no blue water navy to speak of and other than some oil tankers that skirt through northern Indonesia there's nothing of vital importance to them even close to Australia.

Well it goes without saying that the threat from North Korea is utterly bogus but the threat that North Korea could launch a nuclear attack on Australia, no matter how ludicrous, has been used to garner popular support for increasing our military alliance with the US. Crazy I know, but a good deal less crazy than flying two drones into your own skyscrapers.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226147302540

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226140385838

Quote:

AUSTRALIA is working with the US on ways to destroy incoming ballistic missiles because of the possibility of North Korea developing a missile that could reach Australia, Defence Minister Stephen Smith says.

"On some calculations, if successful, North Korean ballistic missile delivery systems, at their outer reach, could reach Australia," he told The Australian.

Over the years there have been dozens of such stories. Now I am not disputing for a moment that it is complete nonsense, rather I was saying that the North Korea bogeyman is vital for the smooth functioning of the global post-USSR system of international relations, necessary to allow the uninterrupted expansion of the media-military-industrial complex and an all round a good thing for everybody except the North Koreans (and doubtless a handful of others whom we can safely ignore when we think of all those good American manufacturing jobs they are helping to maintain).

Hence any signs of a rapprochement would have to be snuffed out.

Economically we just can't afford to do without the North Korean threat, unless (hypothetically) we were to invent an invasion fleet of aliens lurking just around the corner.

Obviousman · 20th December 2011, 01:43 PM

The DPRK's Taepo Dong 2 missile probably has the range to hit the northern part of Australia. Depending on the configuration and payload, it would have a probable range up to 10,000 km.

Obviousman · 20th December 2011, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Economically we just can't afford to do without the North Korean threat, unless (hypothetically) we were to invent an invasion fleet of aliens lurking just around the corner.

Good god, you really don't know anything about Australian defence doctrine, do you?

little grey rabbit · 20th December 2011, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Obviousman

Good god, you really don't know anything about Australian defence doctrine, do you?

You mean our defence doctrine ALREADY revolves around an alien invasion fleet lurking just around the corner!!!!!??

Of course it wouldn't surprise me, but I haven't seen any positive evidence of it in the public sphere.

Although I should point out the economics of the necessity of retaining the North Korean threat really applies to the USA, the Australian economy is differently constructed.

akama1 · 20th December 2011, 07:42 PM

All I would say is Birthers, truthers, "insertwordhere'ers, watch out, In one Year Obama has bumbed off Osama, Gadaffi, and now little Kim*. thats a trifecta of Awesome.

* yes, he was only responsible for one of the three, but thats what "they" want you to think

BaaBaa · 20th December 2011, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by SpitfireIX

A much better idea: The Chinese whacked him because he found out they're planning to fake a moon mission and they were afraid he'd talk.

He already faked a moon landing. Six times.

angrysoba · 20th December 2011, 09:09 PM

In fact, you can probably count on it. There was a conspiracy theory that Kim Il-Sung had been knocked off by his son because Kim Sr had decided to reform North Korea and open up to the West after the Soviet Union collapsed.

Anyway, he had a heart attack or a stroke, IIRC while he was in some remote location and the helicopter (s?) sent to rescue him crashed.

And then apparently the rescue operations were hugely delayed or something like that and Kim Jong-il benefitted so he must have done it.

The counter-argument is that he was an 80-something year old ailing man who smoke and drank and he lived in a country where almost nothing works properly thanks to his misrule.

theprestige · 21st December 2011, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Obviousman

I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one:

http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son

My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless.

They're no fun anymore at BAUT.

You got shut down at BAUT because your CT had nothing to do with space programs or UFOs.

You make it sound like you never actually read the rules or requirements of that forum.

madfoot · 21st December 2011, 01:05 AM

What do you consider a conspiracy theory? We literally have no idea if Kim Jong-Il died the way they said he did. For all we know, this is a coup on the part of Chang Sung-taek or the North Korean military. Surely the skeptic community isn't taking a KCNA report at face value, are they?

Scott Sommers · 21st December 2011, 06:00 AM

Quote:

madfoot
This message is hidden because madfoot is on your ignore list.

Just to let you know that I'm not being rude, but I don't read anything you post.

But the real point of this is to say...courtesy of our Canadian Truther hero Joshua Blakeney,
Benjamin Fulford: Kim Jong-il Murdered as Part of Major Asian Power Battle

timhau · 21st December 2011, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Obviousman

The DPRK's Taepo Dong 2 missile probably has the range to hit the northern part of Australia. Depending on the configuration and payload, it would have a probable range up to 10,000 km.

It may have the range, but does it have the accuracy? If my memory serves, the success of their test launches has not been exactly glorious.

timhau · 21st December 2011, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by madfoot

What do you consider a conspiracy theory? We literally have no idea if Kim Jong-Il died the way they said he did.

No, we don't. However, in this particular case, we also don't have anything that tells us he didn't die of natural causes.

Originally Posted by madfoot

For all we know, this is a coup on the part of Chang Sung-taek or the North Korean military. Surely the skeptic community isn't taking a KCNA report at face value, are they?

As long as a) what they report is possible (and not even very surprising, considering that we know Kim Jong has not been Wel lately) and b) there is no credible conflicting information, then yes, we can take their report as a reasonable starting point -- for now. We'll certainly reassess probabilities if the military top brass disposes of Kim 3.0 and declares rule by a junta, if Kim Jong Il walks to his own funeral on the 28th and KCNA claims he was resurrected, or if he's found on a remote Caribbean island playing poker with Elvis. Being a skeptic doesn't mean you think everyone's trying to BS you all the time.

LightinDarkness · 21st December 2011, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

No, we don't. However, in this particular case, we also don't have anything that tells us he didn't die of natural causes.

As long as a) what they report is possible (and not even very surprising, considering that we know Kim Jong has not been Wel lately) and b) there is no credible conflicting information, then yes, we can take their report as a reasonable starting point -- for now. We'll certainly reassess probabilities if the military top brass disposes of Kim 3.0 and declares rule by a junta, if Kim Jong Il walks to his own funeral on the 28th and KCNA claims he was resurrected, or if he's found on a remote Caribbean island playing poker with Elvis. Being a skeptic doesn't mean you think everyone's trying to BS you all the time.

To add to this (not that we need to), many news agencies have been in the country as late as 2010 (I can think of CNN off the top of my head, and there were a few others) and reported at that time that all things considered the country seemed to be remarkably stable. There just isn't any evidence - from anyone - that anyone in the regime with he capacity to carry a conspiracy type coup out would do so. Most of the people with any amount of power are all in the family and a handful of 80 year old generals - which one of the is going to make a move that could involve giving up the highly luxurious lifestyle they currently live in.

BaaBaa · 21st December 2011, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Scott Sommers

Just to let you know that I'm not being rude, but I don't read anything you post.

But the real point of this is to say...courtesy of our Canadian Truther hero Joshua Blakeney,
Benjamin Fulford: Kim Jong-il Murdered as Part of Major Asian Power Battle

Ah....White Dragon Society, so we meet again!

Scott Sommers · 21st December 2011, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by BaaBaa

Ah....White Dragon Society, so we meet again!

You actually read the thing! Wow...I just posted the link. Just think of all that time you wasted reading the conspiracy drivel. And you'll never get it back - ever.

LSSBB · 21st December 2011, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

In fact, you can probably count on it. There was a conspiracy theory that Kim Il-Sung had been knocked off by his son because Kim Sr had decided to reform North Korea and open up to the West after the Soviet Union collapsed.

Anyway, he had a heart attack or a stroke, IIRC while he was in some remote location and the helicopter (s?) sent to rescue him crashed.

And then apparently the rescue operations were hugely delayed or something like that and Kim Jong-il benefitted so he must have done it.

The counter-argument is that he was an 80-something year old ailing man who smoke and drank and he lived in a country where almost nothing works properly thanks to his misrule.

They gotta fit Joooos in somehow. I say he had a pacemaker and Israel killed it with a new version of Stuxnet, so NK couldn't supply Israel's enemies with weapons.

Oops, I've said too much again.

LSSBB · 21st December 2011, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Scott Sommers

Just to let you know that I'm not being rude, but I don't read anything you post.

But the real point of this is to say...courtesy of our Canadian Truther hero Joshua Blakeney,
Benjamin Fulford: Kim Jong-il Murdered as Part of Major Asian Power Battle

I swear to Jehova that website has to be a big Poe. The hubcap UFO is a dead giveaway.

LightinDarkness · 21st December 2011, 12:54 PM

Isn't Benjamin Fulford the same conspiracy kook that says the Illuminati uses genetically engineered ninja's to carry out their plans...yes, I'm serious.

Scott Sommers · 21st December 2011, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by LSSBB

I swear to Jehova that website has to be a big Poe. The hubcap UFO is a dead giveaway.

It's a really weird cite. The 'staff' page look really strange.
http://the2012scenario.com/about/
but the owner, Steve Beckow, has a Facebook account with over 500 notes on it. There are zillions of interviews with him on other whack job websites, as well. Even keeping this running as a joke would be a full-time job.

His bio states,

Quote:

Steve has written around 20 books

which is strange. How many is it? I can't seem to find any of them, either, unless he means these book-length web posting.

BaaBaa · 21st December 2011, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Sommers

You actually read the thing! Wow...I just posted the link. Just think of all that time you wasted reading the conspiracy drivel. And you'll never get it back - ever.

Naw, I skimmed it, just to see the dramatis personae.

18th December 2011, 10:21 PM	#1
LightinDarkness Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,583	Because You Know Its Coming: The Kim Jung Il Conspiracies You just know the tinfoil hat brigade is going to have a field day with the news about the death of Kim Jung Il. Over on GLP and ATS the kooks are ready dreaming up grand conspiracies, but nothing beyond their normal stupidity so far. If anyone happens to find any of them particularly hilarious and over the top, let us know.

18th December 2011, 10:27 PM	#2
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one: http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless. They're no fun anymore at BAUT.
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	__________________ Any time it can be proved that one of my studies is wrong, I am more eager than anyone to acknowledge AND CORRECT IT. Jack White Little White Lies.......

18th December 2011, 11:22 PM	#3
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,152	He was killed because he demanded too much to be in Team America II.
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,152	__________________ I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago. -David Ray Griffin-

18th December 2011, 11:33 PM	#4
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	__________________ Any time it can be proved that one of my studies is wrong, I am more eager than anyone to acknowledge AND CORRECT IT. Jack White Little White Lies.......

19th December 2011, 12:24 AM	#5
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,992	No conspiracies so far - well, except for the killed by Team America over the re:boot of their franchise. But, hey, ding, dong the bitch is dead!!! Good riddance/bad rubbish and may his son and guards go with him soonest!!
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 57,992	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

19th December 2011, 12:33 AM	#6
Robrob Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5,497	Eventually it will be America's fault.
Robrob Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5,497

19th December 2011, 05:54 AM	#7
Harpo Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,236	Originally Posted by robrob eventually it will be ~~america's~~ the jews fault. ftfy
Harpo Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,236	__________________ "This statement cannot be proved" Kurt Gödel (paraphrased)

19th December 2011, 10:46 AM	#8
SpitfireIX Illuminator TLA Winner Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA Posts: 4,515	Originally Posted by Obviousman I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one: http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless. They're no fun anymore at BAUT. Yeah, I know; that's one of the reasons I don't post there very often anymore.
	__________________ Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

19th December 2011, 10:58 AM	#9
mercatormac Thinker Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 136	Originally Posted by Obviousman I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one: http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless. They're no fun anymore at BAUT. Well it doesn't have much to do with astronomy, does it? You should have suggested that his son bashed in his head with a meteorite.
mercatormac Thinker Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 136

19th December 2011, 11:30 AM	#10
SpitfireIX Illuminator TLA Winner Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA Posts: 4,515	Originally Posted by mercatormac Well it doesn't have much to do with astronomy, does it? You should have suggested that his son bashed in his head with a meteorite. A much better idea: The Chinese whacked him because he found out they're planning to fake a moon mission and they were afraid he'd talk.
	__________________ Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

19th December 2011, 12:51 PM	#11
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 26,835	Originally Posted by SpitfireIX A much better idea: The Chinese whacked him because he found out they're planning to fake a moon mission and they were afraid he'd talk. No, no, he was planning his own fake moon mission, and they didn't want him making mistakes that would be obviously different from the mistakes they planned to make. When dealing with NK, the crazier, the better.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

19th December 2011, 12:52 PM	#12
SpitfireIX Illuminator TLA Winner Join Date: May 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA Posts: 4,515	Originally Posted by Horatius No, no, he was planning his own fake moon mission, and they didn't want him making mistakes that would be obviously different from the mistakes they planned to make. When dealing with NK, the crazier, the better. You're right. That's even better.
	__________________ Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims: 1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage 2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli 3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

19th December 2011, 01:08 PM	#13
coalesce Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,662	It's all Hans Brix's fault, anyway. Michael
coalesce Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 4,662	__________________ "I want the kids in bed by nine, the dog fed, the yard watered and the gate locked. And get a note to the milkman NO MORE CHEESE!" “Of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been.”

19th December 2011, 01:24 PM	#14
A Laughing Baby A baby. Goo goo ga ga Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 2,987	Since Kim Jong Il was the largest single purchaser of Hennessy, it was a faked death so that he could hang out and drink with Tupac (who also faked his death for Hennessy drinking purposes).
	__________________ Plorate, omnes virgines!!

19th December 2011, 02:22 PM	#15
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,164	While I don't believe there is a conspiracy about Kim Jung Il's death - speculation on his health have been circulating for several years now. However, if I were to make a conspiracy theory, I think James has hit the nail on the head Originally Posted by JamesB He was killed because he demanded too much to be in Team America II. News reports indicate that he was on the verge of signing an agreement resolving tensions and accessing increased deliveries of food aid. As North Korea serves a very important functional role in the international system - that of the dangerous unpredictable nuclear power, capable of delivering nuclear missiles to half the world - any signs of a rapprochement to the rest of the world has to be fought. Even in Australia we use the "threat" of nuclear attack from North Korea to integrate ourselves into America's satellite defence system. The military-industrial complex can not survive without exciting wicked villains and their viability and villain-ness has to be protected at all costs. And any North Korea that shows even the slightest signs of abandoning role assigned to that country must be ruthlessly eliminated - if nothing more than to encourage the others.

19th December 2011, 02:42 PM	#16
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	Originally Posted by A Laughing Baby Since Kim Jong Il was the largest single purchaser of Hennessy, it was a faked death so that he could hang out and drink with Tupac (who also faked his death for Hennessy drinking purposes). Oooh, I like that one.
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	__________________ Any time it can be proved that one of my studies is wrong, I am more eager than anyone to acknowledge AND CORRECT IT. Jack White Little White Lies.......

19th December 2011, 08:55 PM	#18
Sam.I.Am Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,627	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit While I don't believe there is a conspiracy about Kim Jung Il's death - speculation on his health have been circulating for several years now. However, if I were to make a conspiracy theory, I think James has hit the nail on the head News reports indicate that he was on the verge of signing an agreement resolving tensions and accessing increased deliveries of food aid. As North Korea serves a very important functional role in the international system - that of the dangerous unpredictable nuclear power, capable of delivering nuclear missiles to half the world - any signs of a rapprochement to the rest of the world has to be fought. Even in Australia we use the "threat" of nuclear attack from North Korea to integrate ourselves into America's satellite defence system. The military-industrial complex can not survive without exciting wicked villains and their viability and villain-ness has to be protected at all costs. And any North Korea that shows even the slightest signs of abandoning role assigned to that country must be ruthlessly eliminated - if nothing more than to encourage the others. Uhhh. No. Just no. Best Korea hasn't demonstrated that they have missiles with enough range to even come close to that, much less that they have developed a warhead capable of being mounted on a ballistic missile. Australia's biggest worry on that front would probably be China (and maybe India although that's not very likely at all), not North Korea. Australia's sphere of influence over the South Pacific and the Indian Ocean are the only reason why they would even be a target in the first place. During the Cold War they were a target of the Soviets only because of their ability to support their allies naval warships not unlike what happened in WWII. Best Korea has no blue water navy to speak of and other than some oil tankers that skirt through northern Indonesia there's nothing of vital importance to them even close to Australia.
Sam.I.Am Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,627	__________________ "Swift, silent and deadly" was a part of my job description Upon hearing me say that my friend asked me "So you're a fart?"... About my avatar.

19th December 2011, 09:19 PM	#19
Robrob Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5,497	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit As North Korea serves a very important functional role in the international system - that of the dangerous unpredictable nuclear power, capable of delivering nuclear missiles to half the world What, by boat?
Robrob Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5,497

20th December 2011, 02:19 AM	#20
Scott Sommers Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,859	I have proof that it was inside job. From the NY Times, Quote: Kim Jong-il, the enigmatic North Korean leader, died on a train at 8:30 a.m. Saturday in his country. Forty-eight hours later, officials in South Korea still did not know anything about it — to say nothing of Washington, where the State Department acknowledged “press reporting” of Mr. Kim’s death well after North Korean state media had already announced it. What more proof do you that it was an inside job than when the State Department says they were taken by surprise? In fact, it's the only proof you need. And any other facts that are presented to the contrary are clearly fake.
	__________________ I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.

20th December 2011, 03:34 AM	#21
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,164	Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am Uhhh. No. Just no. Best Korea hasn't demonstrated that they have missiles with enough range to even come close to that, much less that they have developed a warhead capable of being mounted on a ballistic missile. Australia's biggest worry on that front would probably be China (and maybe India although that's not very likely at all), not North Korea. Australia's sphere of influence over the South Pacific and the Indian Ocean are the only reason why they would even be a target in the first place. During the Cold War they were a target of the Soviets only because of their ability to support their allies naval warships not unlike what happened in WWII. Best Korea has no blue water navy to speak of and other than some oil tankers that skirt through northern Indonesia there's nothing of vital importance to them even close to Australia. Well it goes without saying that the threat from North Korea is utterly bogus but the threat that North Korea could launch a nuclear attack on Australia, no matter how ludicrous, has been used to garner popular support for increasing our military alliance with the US. Crazy I know, but a good deal less crazy than flying two drones into your own skyscrapers. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226147302540 http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226140385838 Quote: AUSTRALIA is working with the US on ways to destroy incoming ballistic missiles because of the possibility of North Korea developing a missile that could reach Australia, Defence Minister Stephen Smith says. "On some calculations, if successful, North Korean ballistic missile delivery systems, at their outer reach, could reach Australia," he told The Australian. Over the years there have been dozens of such stories. Now I am not disputing for a moment that it is complete nonsense, rather I was saying that the North Korea bogeyman is vital for the smooth functioning of the global post-USSR system of international relations, necessary to allow the uninterrupted expansion of the media-military-industrial complex and an all round a good thing for everybody except the North Koreans (and doubtless a handful of others whom we can safely ignore when we think of all those good American manufacturing jobs they are helping to maintain). Hence any signs of a rapprochement would have to be snuffed out. Economically we just can't afford to do without the North Korean threat, unless (hypothetically) we were to invent an invasion fleet of aliens lurking just around the corner.

20th December 2011, 01:43 PM	#22
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	The DPRK's Taepo Dong 2 missile probably has the range to hit the northern part of Australia. Depending on the configuration and payload, it would have a probable range up to 10,000 km.
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	__________________ Any time it can be proved that one of my studies is wrong, I am more eager than anyone to acknowledge AND CORRECT IT. Jack White Little White Lies.......

20th December 2011, 01:45 PM	#23
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Economically we just can't afford to do without the North Korean threat, unless (hypothetically) we were to invent an invasion fleet of aliens lurking just around the corner. Good god, you really don't know anything about Australian defence doctrine, do you?
Obviousman Muse Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 652	__________________ Any time it can be proved that one of my studies is wrong, I am more eager than anyone to acknowledge AND CORRECT IT. Jack White Little White Lies.......

20th December 2011, 01:54 PM	#24
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,164	Originally Posted by Obviousman Good god, you really don't know anything about Australian defence doctrine, do you? You mean our defence doctrine ALREADY revolves around an alien invasion fleet lurking just around the corner!!!!!?? Of course it wouldn't surprise me, but I haven't seen any positive evidence of it in the public sphere. Although I should point out the economics of the necessity of retaining the North Korean threat really applies to the USA, the Australian economy is differently constructed.
	Last edited by little grey rabbit; 20th December 2011 at 01:56 PM.

20th December 2011, 07:42 PM	#25
akama1 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 285	All I would say is Birthers, truthers, "insertwordhere'ers, watch out, In one Year Obama has bumbed off Osama, Gadaffi, and now little Kim. thats a trifecta of Awesome. yes, he was only responsible for one of the three, but thats what "they" want you to think
akama1 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 285

20th December 2011, 08:07 PM	#26
BaaBaa Semi-literate hench-person Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,457	Originally Posted by SpitfireIX A much better idea: The Chinese whacked him because he found out they're planning to fake a moon mission and they were afraid he'd talk. He already faked a moon landing. Six times.
	__________________ "Damn, i think you are illeterate"

20th December 2011, 09:09 PM	#27
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 24,424	In fact, you can probably count on it. There was a conspiracy theory that Kim Il-Sung had been knocked off by his son because Kim Sr had decided to reform North Korea and open up to the West after the Soviet Union collapsed. Anyway, he had a heart attack or a stroke, IIRC while he was in some remote location and the helicopter (s?) sent to rescue him crashed. And then apparently the rescue operations were hugely delayed or something like that and Kim Jong-il benefitted so he must have done it. The counter-argument is that he was an 80-something year old ailing man who smoke and drank and he lived in a country where almost nothing works properly thanks to his misrule.
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

21st December 2011, 12:53 AM	#28
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 31,722	Originally Posted by Obviousman I got shut down at BAUT for suggesting one: http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....led-by-his-son My theory isn't even that far-fetched, just baseless. They're no fun anymore at BAUT. You got shut down at BAUT because your CT had nothing to do with space programs or UFOs. You make it sound like you never actually read the rules or requirements of that forum.

21st December 2011, 01:05 AM	#29
madfoot Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 367	What do you consider a conspiracy theory? We literally have no idea if Kim Jong-Il died the way they said he did. For all we know, this is a coup on the part of Chang Sung-taek or the North Korean military. Surely the skeptic community isn't taking a KCNA report at face value, are they?
madfoot Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 367

21st December 2011, 06:00 AM	#30
Scott Sommers Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,859	Quote: madfoot This message is hidden because madfoot is on your ignore list. Just to let you know that I'm not being rude, but I don't read anything you post. But the real point of this is to say...courtesy of our Canadian Truther hero Joshua Blakeney, Benjamin Fulford: Kim Jong-il Murdered as Part of Major Asian Power Battle
	__________________ I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world. Last edited by Scott Sommers; 21st December 2011 at 06:40 AM.

21st December 2011, 07:21 AM	#31
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 13,018	Originally Posted by Obviousman The DPRK's Taepo Dong 2 missile probably has the range to hit the northern part of Australia. Depending on the configuration and payload, it would have a probable range up to 10,000 km. It may have the range, but does it have the accuracy? If my memory serves, the success of their test launches has not been exactly glorious.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

21st December 2011, 07:34 AM	#32
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 13,018	Originally Posted by madfoot What do you consider a conspiracy theory? We literally have no idea if Kim Jong-Il died the way they said he did. No, we don't. However, in this particular case, we also don't have anything that tells us he didn't die of natural causes. Originally Posted by madfoot For all we know, this is a coup on the part of Chang Sung-taek or the North Korean military. Surely the skeptic community isn't taking a KCNA report at face value, are they? As long as a) what they report is possible (and not even very surprising, considering that we know Kim Jong has not been Wel lately) and b) there is no credible conflicting information, then yes, we can take their report as a reasonable starting point -- for now. We'll certainly reassess probabilities if the military top brass disposes of Kim 3.0 and declares rule by a junta, if Kim Jong Il walks to his own funeral on the 28th and KCNA claims he was resurrected, or if he's found on a remote Caribbean island playing poker with Elvis. Being a skeptic doesn't mean you think everyone's trying to BS you all the time.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips Last edited by timhau; 21st December 2011 at 07:35 AM.

21st December 2011, 07:47 AM	#33
LightinDarkness Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,583	Originally Posted by timhau No, we don't. However, in this particular case, we also don't have anything that tells us he didn't die of natural causes. As long as a) what they report is possible (and not even very surprising, considering that we know Kim Jong has not been Wel lately) and b) there is no credible conflicting information, then yes, we can take their report as a reasonable starting point -- for now. We'll certainly reassess probabilities if the military top brass disposes of Kim 3.0 and declares rule by a junta, if Kim Jong Il walks to his own funeral on the 28th and KCNA claims he was resurrected, or if he's found on a remote Caribbean island playing poker with Elvis. Being a skeptic doesn't mean you think everyone's trying to BS you all the time. To add to this (not that we need to), many news agencies have been in the country as late as 2010 (I can think of CNN off the top of my head, and there were a few others) and reported at that time that all things considered the country seemed to be remarkably stable. There just isn't any evidence - from anyone - that anyone in the regime with he capacity to carry a conspiracy type coup out would do so. Most of the people with any amount of power are all in the family and a handful of 80 year old generals - which one of the is going to make a move that could involve giving up the highly luxurious lifestyle they currently live in.

21st December 2011, 08:07 AM	#34
BaaBaa Semi-literate hench-person Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,457	Originally Posted by Scott Sommers Just to let you know that I'm not being rude, but I don't read anything you post. But the real point of this is to say...courtesy of our Canadian Truther hero Joshua Blakeney, Benjamin Fulford: Kim Jong-il Murdered as Part of Major Asian Power Battle Ah....White Dragon Society, so we meet again!
	__________________ "Damn, i think you are illeterate"

21st December 2011, 08:12 AM	#35
Scott Sommers Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,859	Originally Posted by BaaBaa Ah....White Dragon Society, so we meet again! You actually read the thing! Wow...I just posted the link. Just think of all that time you wasted reading the conspiracy drivel. And you'll never get it back - ever.
	__________________ I've seen it here and in several other places that there is no Illuminati. That doesn't even make sense. There's a Wikipedia entry that talks about it. I'm not saying that everything on Wikipedia is true, but if you read it, it's just really clear how the Illuminati controls the world.

21st December 2011, 09:27 AM	#36
LSSBB Devilish Dictionarian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery Posts: 19,950	Originally Posted by angrysoba In fact, you can probably count on it. There was a conspiracy theory that Kim Il-Sung had been knocked off by his son because Kim Sr had decided to reform North Korea and open up to the West after the Soviet Union collapsed. Anyway, he had a heart attack or a stroke, IIRC while he was in some remote location and the helicopter (s?) sent to rescue him crashed. And then apparently the rescue operations were hugely delayed or something like that and Kim Jong-il benefitted so he must have done it. The counter-argument is that he was an 80-something year old ailing man who smoke and drank and he lived in a country where almost nothing works properly thanks to his misrule. They gotta fit Joooos in somehow. I say he had a pacemaker and Israel killed it with a new version of Stuxnet, so NK couldn't supply Israel's enemies with weapons. Oops, I've said too much again.
	__________________ "You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles