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Tags celebrity incidents , Christiano Ronaldo , rape cases , rape incidents

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Old 2nd October 2018, 03:26 PM   #41
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
So far we only have a newspaper stating that her [i]lawsuit - not evidence in court - states that the man admitted he had sex over her protestations. In fact the newspaper treats it as only an allegation because - surprise surprise - it is only an allegation in a lawsuit at this time.
Here is what the newspaper states:
After the attack, according to the lawsuit, Ronaldo apologized, "stating he was sorry, he was usually a gentleman.The lawsuit alleges that Ronaldo told his representatives that "she said 'no' and 'stop' several times.

Repeat after me: Allegations
This particular "allegation" happens to be a description of a signed document...
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Old 2nd October 2018, 03:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This particular "allegation" happens to be a description of a signed document...


Seriously?????

A lawsuit alleges something exists and you jump to the conclusion that someone has verified that the documents exist and are not false?
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt
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Old 2nd October 2018, 05:03 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It can breed extortion. The victim could continue to demand more and more from the perp to keep quiet. This situation can lead down a very bad road.

It would certainly be on a case by case basis.

Overall, it just seems like a bad idea to allow felons to keep out of jail by paying off their victims.
I'm all for the victim extorting the offender, if they didn't want to be extorted, then they shouldn't have offended.

The big problem with you idea is that it puts the victim in a position where if they take the money during what is a vulnerable time, they are locked into never being able to speak out because if they do, they can go to jail themselves.
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Old 2nd October 2018, 05:13 PM   #44
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Did she hire Avenatti to represent her?
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Old 2nd October 2018, 08:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
The world is full of people making false allegations against famous/wealthy people or companies and getting a payday because the time/effort/distress/bad publicity that such allegations incur are far more than the paltry sums paid to make the false allegations go away.
Prove it.
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Old 3rd October 2018, 04:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Prove it.
The willingness of humans to commit fraud for self gain is a matter of public record.
It is generally agreed that the number of false reports of rape in the US is as high as 10%.
Educate yourself starting here: Lisak, David; Gardinier, Lori; Nicksa, Sarah C.; Cote, Ashley M. (2010). "False Allegations of Sexual Assualt [sic]: An Analysis of Ten Years of Reported Cases" (PDF). Violence Against Women.
https://icdv.idaho.gov/conference/ha...llegations.pdf
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt

Last edited by rockinkt; 3rd October 2018 at 05:13 PM. Reason: expanded with cite
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Old 3rd October 2018, 05:14 PM   #47
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Here's a video of an alleged real life event that must have really happened because I saw it in a lawsuit and we all know that anything alleged in a lawsuit must be true!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNRlcjz3acU
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt
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Old 3rd October 2018, 08:55 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
No. In no case can a civil settlement ever prevent authorities from filing charges if they receive a complaint. But in some cases where victims accepted settlements that included non-disclosure clauses and then later decided to go to the police anyway - or answered truthfully when police came to them for whatever reason - perpetrators in the past have tried to punish them after the fact by suing them for breach of contract (arguing that talking to the police violates the non-disclosure clause). I don't know how successful such lawsuits have been historically - but California has eliminated the problem altogether by making non-disclosure clauses illegal in sex-abuse settlements.
I'd seriously question whether it's reasonable to specifically make an exception for "sex abuse" than just making any such clause illegal irrespective of what type of crime one has been a victim off.

I wouldn't be surprised if the importance kind of agreements could be completely negated if people cant bring civil suits demanding compensation from damage caused by criminal acts. Instead victims compensation would come exclusively as a consequence of a guilty verdict in a criminal trial. That's at least how it works in Sweden and this is completely unheard of here.
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Old 5th October 2018, 01:18 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Seriously?????

A lawsuit alleges something exists and you jump to the conclusion that someone has verified that the documents exist and are not false?
According to the Der Spiegel article, it (the magazine) has obtained copies of the documents - and others, for instance such as the police and hospital examination reports from the day after the incident, and it notes that the case number on the police report matches one mentioned in the settlement documents. The magazine also claims to have discovered via investigation that the settlement money to the victim was paid out of a British Virgin Islands-based account that all of Ronaldo's sponsorship money is paid into. All of this was in the article.
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Old 5th October 2018, 07:07 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
According to the Der Spiegel article, it (the magazine) has obtained copies of the documents - and others, for instance such as the police and hospital examination reports from the day after the incident, and it notes that the case number on the police report matches one mentioned in the settlement documents. The magazine also claims to have discovered via investigation that the settlement money to the victim was paid out of a British Virgin Islands-based account that all of Ronaldo's sponsorship money is paid into. All of this was in the article.


Neither party is denying that she went to the police and the hospital all the while refusing to cooperate with the police or hospital and tell them who she was accusing. The fact that she obviously did that to have proof of sex with the man and then lawyered up to start the shake down was not lost on the police officer.

Neither party are denying a settlement was negotiated with a third party mediator so who cares if that was verified by the newspaper? Der Spiegel only did that to try and lend credence to the important stuff that they did not investigate!

Speaking about stuff that they did not investigate...
Again, regarding the man's supposed statements and questionnaire responses - there is only reporting of what the newspaper Der Spiegel claims to have seen on another website! There is no verified evidence brought forward that the documents that they are reporting on actually exist and have been proven to be authentic. Der Spiegel do not have the original documents to even attempt this!

Taking a break from my role of Devil's Advocate...
One thing that has a very important bearing on this case is that those documents between the man's lawyers and himself are totally useless of any evidentiary value in any court in the US. Even if there was some way of verifying that the documents quoted are true and ignoring the fact that they were obviously illegally obtained - legal professional privilege protects all communications between a professional legal adviser (a solicitor, barrister or attorney) and his or her clients from being disclosed without the permission of the client.
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"I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." Townes Van Zandt

Last edited by rockinkt; 5th October 2018 at 07:10 AM. Reason: underline "all communications"
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Old 5th October 2018, 07:14 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I'm all for the victim extorting the offender, if they didn't want to be extorted, then they shouldn't have offended.

The big problem with you idea is that it puts the victim in a position where if they take the money during what is a vulnerable time, they are locked into never being able to speak out because if they do, they can go to jail themselves.
AFAIK, extortion is already very illegal, even extortion of a criminal.

I would think that the victim could simply take the bribe/offer to the police as more evidence that the crime occurred. By going to the police, you'd eliminate any possibility of being accused of asking for a payoff, or of accepting one to be quiet.
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Old 5th October 2018, 10:49 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Taking a break from my role of Devil's Advocate...
One thing that has a very important bearing on this case is that those documents between the man's lawyers and himself are totally useless of any evidentiary value in any court in the US. Even if there was some way of verifying that the documents quoted are true and ignoring the fact that they were obviously illegally obtained - legal professional privilege protects all communications between a professional legal adviser (a solicitor, barrister or attorney) and his or her clients from being disclosed without the permission of the client.
That doesn't matter in this case because the documents were leaked by an uninvolved third party first, putting them into the public domain and rendering privilege moot. Investigators are not allowed to seek those materials from the source in the course of an investigation but that doesn't mean they have to close their eyes and pretend not to see documents posted by someone else on the web for all to see, illegally-obtained or not.

For what's it's worth, "illegally obtained" isn't even important when the person doing the obtaining isn't a police officer. If police recover a stolen computer and the thief alerts police to the fact that there's child pornography on it that predates the theft, the owner of the computer is getting charged - the fact that police only found out about it because the computer was stolen makes no difference.
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Old 5th October 2018, 06:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That doesn't matter in this case because the documents were leaked by an uninvolved third party first, putting them into the public domain and rendering privilege moot. Investigators are not allowed to seek those materials from the source in the course of an investigation but that doesn't mean they have to close their eyes and pretend not to see documents posted by someone else on the web for all to see, illegally-obtained or not.

For what's it's worth, "illegally obtained" isn't even important when the person doing the obtaining isn't a police officer. If police recover a stolen computer and the thief alerts police to the fact that there's child pornography on it that predates the theft, the owner of the computer is getting charged - the fact that police only found out about it because the computer was stolen makes no difference.

Yes, the investigators can use all sorts of information to obtain evidence to bring to court.

It is the court that decides if the evidence is admissible .

I am not an expert on American law so I could be mistaken. That being said - I will ask you to please provide a United States Supreme Court Ruling where the so-called attorney\client privilege is waived when illegally obtained lawyer/client privileged information is brought before the court as evidence because it was published somewhere. Remember that the discussions regard a possible criminal offence in this case so the attorney/client privilege is of the highest order. (There are many exceptions to other types of privilege)

Continuing with my argument...
IMHO - your computer analogy does not hold for two major reasons:
1)The computer is the direct, original source of the evidence and therefore police easily have the means to authenticate and corroborate their evidence. That mean they can establish the fact that there is indeed X type of porn and Y amount of porn without doubt.
2)If the police can show that there has been no tampering with the computer since it left the defendant's sole possession and if the warrants issued to the internet provider show that the illegal porn was downloaded during the time of the defendant's possession and that he/she had sole access to the computer - then they have a case that will stand on its merits before any judge.

In the case we are discussing, where the difference lies as far as points 1&2 above is that they cannot do that with the alleged documents because they do not have access to the originals. They cannot obtain the originals because they are privileged communication and no warrant to obtain such privileged documents will ever be granted. Good luck trying to prove something is a true representation of a real document without an original if the originators of the document are denying the authenticity and you have no way to corroborate your assertions!

BTW - thank you for your even keeled and well thought out points in this debate.
Discussions like this are why I originally came to this board but they are seemingly happening less and less.
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Old 6th October 2018, 12:07 AM   #54
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To some it up:
There are two equally valid scenarios:
1) She got raped and accepted money and signed piece of paper. Then 9 years later she suddenly had change of mind and started round 2.

2)They had sex. There was blackmail for large sum of money. 9 years alter money ran out and there was cause to abuse. Round 2: Attention seeking and blackmail.

It wouldn't surprise me if 2 option was the case, there are too many gold diggers. as it is...

ETA: And it is first option, then she is idiot, because her failure means that there won't be any evidence left.
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Old 6th October 2018, 12:13 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I am not an expert on American law so I could be mistaken. That being said - I will ask you to please provide a United States Supreme Court Ruling where the so-called attorney\client privilege is waived when illegally obtained lawyer/client privileged information is brought before the court as evidence because it was published somewhere. Remember that the discussions regard a possible criminal offence in this case so the attorney/client privilege is of the highest order. (There are many exceptions to other types of privilege)
There doesn't appear to be any USSC ruling on this matter at all, so unfortunately I can't link to such a decision. You may be correct in that some of the leaked documents may be inadmissible in court.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean they're inadmissible for the purposes of our discussion here. The form of your original objection was,

Quote:
Seriously?????

A lawsuit alleges something exists and you jump to the conclusion that someone has verified that the documents exist and are not false?
Der Spiegel is not a tabloid; when they say their own journalists have investigated and confirmed that a payout from a specific one of Ronaldo's managed accounts was made to the victim, we at the very least have no positive reason to suspect them of completely fabricating that detail, and so we can consider that the fact the settlement exists is reasonably corroborated. Further, since the victim's attorneys are currently filing civil actions to have the settlement declared void, and will certainly be submitting settlement-related documents her attorneys had access to at the time of the settlement as part of the record in the civil case, we can be reasonably confident those particular documents aren't fake because submitting fake documents to a court would be a crime (not saying it can't happen, just that it's unlikely enough we can be reasonably, if tentatively, sure they are genuine), and beyond that it simply wouldn't make sense to spend time and money to ask a court to nullify a settlement that didn't actually exist.

Which leaves the leaked documents - specifically leaked ones that the victim's attorneys would not have had access to, such as internal communications among Ronaldo's legal team, and between them and Ronaldo himself. After all, we can presume SOME of the leaked documents must include copies of settlement documents shared between both legal teams, and the victim's attorneys would be able to tell if the leaked versions of those were altered in any way. But let's talk about the ones they cannot personally corroborate.

The source of the leaked settlement documents was an organization that goes by the name Football Leaks. This group has been around for several years now and has been (obviously without permission) posting illicitly-obtained documents on the web, mostly involving contracts between star players and football clubs in Europe. Some of the revealed information has been scandalous and caused outrage among fans and sports professionals there, sometimes indicating that teams have lied to the public regarding contracts and payments, and at least one football team seems to have been banned from league play for a season due to malfeasance revealed by Football Leaks.

Opinion on the group posting the documents is mixed - with many sports fans being appreciative and most sports clubs pressuring national governments to pursue potential criminal charges against the leakers or at least find the sources so they can be silenced. So far though (I admittedly haven't done a police-quality investigation), all of the public complaints I've found from organizations whose information has been leaked by the group have all responded to Football Leaks as a matter of theft and violation of privacy. None of their press statements seem to ever accuse the documents Football Leaks releases of being alterations or complete forgeries making assertions that are simply untrue...all except for this single instance, where when this story first broke (apparently last year), as the Der Spiegel article points out, Ronaldo's lawyers called it all complete fiction. Of course at that time, the alleged victim refused to answer any press questions about it, believing herself to be bound by the non-disclosure clause in the (secret, nonfictional) settlement; and so the claims of Ronaldo's attorneys went completely unchallenged except by the existence of the unverifiable leak itself.

Historically (except again in this one case), things released by Football Leaks have been treated as true by European governments, sports organizations, and even the clubs from whom the documents were stolen. But, in fairness, Football Leaks doesn't claim to be its own source - in other words, they're not hackers stealing the documents for themselves - and it's certainly not impossible that an unverified source could have pushed fake documents on them. If that is where things still stood, there wouldn't be much to say about the issue.

But things have changed now. The victim's own attorneys are not only publicly revealing the existence of the settlement, but are making moves to challenge it in court - thus generally corroborating the leaks insofar as the fact that a settlement existed, and in the meantime showing that Ronaldo's legal term lied to the public by claiming it did not when the story first broke.

And that last part is very important, if you ask me. You can insist that the truth is up in the air as to whether or not the alleged victim was actually raped. But there is only one party in this matter so far that is demonstrably proven to have lied, and that is Ronaldo's lawyers. They could have said "yes there was a settlement but my client adamantly denies wrongdoing yadda yadda"; but they did not; they called the entire initial story fabricated, a statement which was simply false. So for now, it's the victim's side I will be according more credibility.
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Old 7th October 2018, 01:57 PM   #56
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I don't think there is any doubt left that Ronaldo did this, he admitted as much in his settlement with the woman involved.

The issue becomes: When is a settlement agreement between two adults no longer in play and does the money have to be returned?

Very interesting issues involved here.
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Old 8th October 2018, 09:49 AM   #57
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I believe that Mayorga's attorney is claiming that Ronaldo's attornies didn't fulfill their terms of the settlement. Specifically, Ronaldo was never given a letter that she personally wrote for him. She took the money and assumed that he had read the letter.
Whether or not money has to be returned is an interesting part of this case. Also, I wonder what Nike and EA Sports will do. Juventus has taken a strong stance in support, of course. He is their current meal ticket.
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Old 8th October 2018, 01:35 PM   #58
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Well, I might have gotten this one wrong in the end.

Reminder: Be always strongly skeptical about such allegations especially after so many years. Too many blackmails, gold digging and attention seeking around.
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Old 8th October 2018, 04:31 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by FenerFan View Post
Whether or not money has to be returned is an interesting part of this case.
My (lay, largely uninformed) impression is that ruling the settlement void dissolves any obligation based on it, including any to return the money. At least, I've never heard of someone being forced to repay settlement money after the settlement was nullified. Most people typically ask courts to void settlements precisely to prevent having to repay settlement money. But, I could be 100% wrong.

As far as gold-digging; meh. When it comes to suing or seeking settlements from perpetrators, the victims of sexual assault and abuse are free to dig all the way to China, twice, as far as I'm concerned. In fact, I believe society should encourage it. Or at least not shame abuse victims for seeking that avenue of reparation.
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Old 8th October 2018, 06:15 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
In fact, I believe society should encourage it. Or at least not shame abuse victims for seeking that avenue of reparation.
Yeah let's not encourage people to seek redress through the established legal system. Blackmail and extortion is a totally reasonable alternative that everyone should use completely with impunity.
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Old 9th October 2018, 09:57 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yeah let's not encourage people to seek redress through the established legal system. Blackmail and extortion is a totally reasonable alternative that everyone should use completely with impunity.
Firstly settlements, even out-of-court ones, are a de facto part of the established legal system.

Secondly nobody said civil versus criminal justice has to be an either-or proposition. I fully support the pursuit of both wherever practicable.

Thirdly the above notwithstanding there are times when the circumstances of a particular rape or other sexual abuse are such that a criminal case against the perpetrator is unlikely to succeed, or even be attempted by government prosecutors, meaning civil relief is the only form of redress the victim could ever even hope to obtain. Naturally the people best in a position to be able to determine whether that's true in a given case are the victim him/herself and their legal team; so it is immensely cruel to shame victims for pursuing what they have determined to essentially be their only recourse for any semblance of "justice".
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Old 10th January 2019, 11:54 AM   #62
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BREAKING: Las Vegas police have issued a warrant for soccer superstar Cristiano Ronaldo's DNA in connection with a rape investigation, the Wall Street Journal reports
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Old 16th January 2019, 07:56 AM   #63
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Ronaldo's lawyers of course are saying it was consensual, so of course his DNA would be there.

Why would they need his DNA? What if it DOESNT match? Will the police consider her story to be invalid?

This seems weird.
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Old 16th January 2019, 09:35 AM   #64
autumn1971
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Ronaldo's lawyers of course are saying it was consensual, so of course his DNA would be there.

Why would they need his DNA? What if it DOESNT match? Will the police consider her story to be invalid?

This seems weird.
Barebacking one-night-stands would at least expose him as an idiot.
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