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Tags assault weapons , gun control issues , gun control laws , gun laws

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Old 10th January 2019, 09:12 PM   #1
Ranb
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Assault Weapons Ban 2019

Senators Introduce Assault Weapons Ban
https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/pub...D-C577212ED17B

Quote:
Key provisions:

Bans the sale, manufacture, transfer and importation of 205 military-style assault weapons by name. Owners may keep existing weapons.
Bans any assault weapon that accepts a detachable ammunition magazine and has one or more military characteristics including a pistol grip, a forward grip, a barrel shroud, a threaded barrel or a folding or telescoping stock. Owners may keep existing weapons.
Bans magazines and other ammunition feeding devices that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition, which allow shooters to quickly fire many rounds without needing to reload. Owners may keep existing magazines.
I heard that the assault weapon dies with the owner though. Other provisions on the webpage seem to oppose this claim.

Quote:
Bans stocks that are “otherwise foldable or adjustable in a manner that operates to reduce the length, size, or any other dimension, or otherwise enhances the concealability of a firearm.”
I have an ar-15 with an adjustable stock; I don't consider it to be very enhancing at all.

Quote:
Bans assault pistols that weigh 50 or more ounces when unloaded, a policy included in the original 1994 ban.
I'm not sure why this was ever a thing. Think the Desert Eagle handguns in 44 magnum or 50 AE. Hardly anyone really wants to drag these things around to commit violent crimes with.

Quote:
Bans assault pistol stabilizing braces that transform assault pistols into assault rifles by allowing the shooter to shoulder the weapon and fire more accurately.
Those Sig arm braces really aren't a problem.

Quote:
Bans Thordsen-type grips and stocks that are designed to evade a ban on assault weapons.
This replaces certain AR style pistol grip stocks with one that lacks an actual pistol grip. https://www.thordsencustoms.com/frs-...-kit-od-green/ What's next, banning any solid projectile because it evades a ban on lead?

There is no actual bill number or test available right now.

Ranb
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Old 11th January 2019, 06:43 AM   #2
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I predict a sharp uptick in sales of AR-type rifles and accessories just upon introduction of the bill.
I haven’t visited my Reddit gun forum yet....

Manufacturers will be rubbing their hands in glee.....
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Old 11th January 2019, 06:51 AM   #3
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NVM
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:00 AM   #4
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Guns facilitate for citizens an important right....to kill people. Under certain circumstances, citizens are allowed to kill people. These rules aim to make them less good at killing people. I cannot abide something that is trying so hard to attenuate the right to kill people.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:11 AM   #5
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We have assault pistols now?
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:15 AM   #6
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I don't understand why things like barrel shroud or stock are regulated. Or even overall length. ARs all fall into the category just because of the magazine.

I think the weight on the pistols is to prevent some guns being called pistols, when they are really not. Like assault rifles without stock. That might not really be an issue in large scale, but it's certainly making fun of the regulation.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:15 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
....These rules aim to make them less good at killing people. I cannot abide something that is trying so hard to attenuate the right to kill people.
What part of the bill does what you claim? The guns/mags don't actually go away. If the bill passes the House many more of the potentially banned guns will be sold.

Originally Posted by HawksFan View Post
We have assault pistols now?
Assault pistols were part of the AWB of 1994. Hawaii still has their assault pistol ban on the books. Certain shotguns are also "bad".

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I don't understand why things like barrel shroud or stock are regulated. Or even overall length. ARs all fall into the category just because of the magazine.
It is to regulate certain semi-auto rifles like the AR-15. This law doesn't go as far as the WA State law which regulates ALL semi-auto rifles other than antiques as assault rifles.

Quote:
I think the weight on the pistols is to prevent some guns being called pistols, when they are really not. Like assault rifles without stock. That might not really be an issue in large scale, but it's certainly making fun of the regulation.
In my opinion the Desert Eagle and the LAR 45WM are actually concealable hanguns; provided you are a large person. The AR-15 pistol is just stupid I think.

Last edited by Ranb; 11th January 2019 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
What part of the bill does what you claim? The guns/mags don't actually go away. If the bill passes the House many more of the potentially banned guns will be sold.


Assault pistols were part of the AWB of 1994. Hawaii still has their assault pistol ban on the books. Certain shotguns are also "bad".
I didn't claim the bill did anything.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:44 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by HawksFan View Post
We have assault pistols now?
I am curious what that is, not curious enough to google my self but curious.
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Old 11th January 2019, 07:55 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
In my opinion the Desert Eagle and the LAR 45WM are actually concealable hanguns; provided you are a large person. The AR-15 pistol is just stupid I think.
It's commonly done. You take AR or AK without stock, with short barrel, and you call it a pistol. Then you add brace, and you have 'legal' short barrel semiauto rifle and you don't need SBR stamp.
I think this point is aimed specifically at this.
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Old 11th January 2019, 08:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
This replaces certain AR style pistol grip stocks with one that lacks an actual pistol grip. https://www.thordsencustoms.com/frs-...-kit-od-green/ What's next, banning any solid projectile because it evades a ban on lead?
Looks like specifically addressing something specifically designed to exploit a loophole in existing legislation.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 11th January 2019 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 08:02 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I didn't claim the bill did anything.
Yes you did make a claim and now 'Ranb' is asking you to clarify that claim.
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Old 11th January 2019, 08:17 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by HawksFan View Post
We have assault pistols now?
Presumably "pistol" versions of AR-15s and AKs, which again seem specifically designed to exploit legislative loopholes.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 11th January 2019 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 08:50 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Yes you did make a claim and now 'Ranb' is asking you to clarify that claim.
I said aim. I didnt say effect. The intent of the people writing the law doesn't matter and won't affect the text or the outcome.
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I said aim. I didnt say effect. The intent of the people writing the law doesn't matter and won't affect the text or the outcome.
Your response makes no sense.
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Your response makes no sense.
I commented on the intent of the writer of the law. Ranb asked what part of the bill I think accomplishes that. But I don't think the bill accomplishes it. Further, I don't think the intent of the law's writer matters.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 11th January 2019 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:31 AM   #17
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Just more of the same random silly rules that won't do anything to affect criminals.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I am curious what that is, not curious enough to google my self but curious.
This is what assault pistols used to be as defined from 1994-2004. As far as I can tell this Wikipedia article is accurate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban
Quote:
Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud safety feature that prevents burns to the operator
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.
As far as I know the AR-15 handguns (short barrel and no stock, just the buffer tube extending back) were not a thing back in 1994. I saw my first at-15 pistol only ten years ago.

As far as I know the offensive pistols were the Uzi's, TEC-9's and others that did not fit the usual pistol with the "magazine in the pistol grip" model. The heavier handguns of the traditional design were also caught up in the ban as well as some nicer target pistols like the Browning Buckmark in 22lr.

Some states have their own assault weapon definitions based in part on the AWB94.
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:51 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Presumably "pistol" versions of AR-15s and AKs, which again seem specifically designed to exploit legislative loopholes..
I'm not aware that this is why they exist. I think someone just built their own at-15 handgun one day and it caught on a tiny bit with others.

I personally know some people who bought an at-15 pistol and then registered it as a short barreled rifle. They used it occasionally as a pistol while waiting 3-12 months for ATF approval of the tax stamp application so they could attach the shoulder stock and have a real rifle.

The Sig Arm Brace was as far as I can tell a legitimate accessory invented by a disabled man who wanted better control over his ar-15 pistol. The ATF at first agreed that an ar-15 equipped with the brace had no limitations on it's use (in the hand or on the shoulder) but later changed their minds and said using it as a shoulder stock made it an SBR requiring a tax stamp.

Personally I think the AR-15 pistol is as stupid as the Can-Am Spyder and the Polaris Slingshot.
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
....But I don't think the bill accomplishes it. Further, I don't think the intent of the law's writer matters.
Legislative intent can matter at times. If the intent is spelled out it can make a difference in the way the courts or the attorney general defines the law.
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Old 11th January 2019, 09:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
It's commonly done. You take AR or AK without stock, with short barrel, and you call it a pistol. Then you add brace, and you have 'legal' short barrel semiauto rifle and you don't need SBR stamp.
I think this point is aimed specifically at this.
Just adding the arm brace does not make it a legal SBR. You also need the tax stamp.
https://www.atf.gov/file/11816/download

The ATF is of the opinion that holding the arm brace against the shoulder constitutes a "redesign" of the firearm. The ATF says the arm brace is legal without a stamp as long as it is used as intended; as am arm brace.

The arm brace is for the moment entirely legal and I think a very effective way of improving the hold of the awkward at-15 pistol. The SBR version of the at-15 is a ton better than any at-15 pistol in my opinion.
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Old 11th January 2019, 10:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I'm not aware that this is why they exist. I think someone just built their own at-15 handgun one day and it caught on a tiny bit with others.

I personally know some people who bought an at-15 pistol and then registered it as a short barreled rifle. They used it occasionally as a pistol while waiting 3-12 months for ATF approval of the tax stamp application so they could attach the shoulder stock and have a real rifle.

The Sig Arm Brace was as far as I can tell a legitimate accessory invented by a disabled man who wanted better control over his ar-15 pistol. The ATF at first agreed that an ar-15 equipped with the brace had no limitations on it's use (in the hand or on the shoulder) but later changed their minds and said using it as a shoulder stock made it an SBR requiring a tax stamp.

Personally I think the AR-15 pistol is as stupid as the Can-Am Spyder and the Polaris Slingshot.
Oh, I had generally heard those referred to as submachine guns or machine pistols in the pas. Thank you.
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Old 11th January 2019, 10:45 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Oh, I had generally heard those referred to as submachine guns or machine pistols in the pas. Thank you.
Would never call a semi-auto that, though. These were semi-auto.

Submachine guns and machine pistols are full auto.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 11th January 2019, 10:51 AM   #24
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Olympic Arms brought out the OA-93 AR-15 pistol in 1993.

They modified it to take stripper clips with a fixed magazine in 1996 to comply with the ban. OA-96

They made a skeletonized version to get under the weight restriction and keep the detachable magazine and still be compliant. OA-98

https://youtu.be/apd6NXWgBZk

https://youtu.be/CcNS4JdprWc
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:31 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I commented on the intent of the writer of the law. Ranb asked what part of the bill I think accomplishes that. But I don't think the bill accomplishes it. Further, I don't think the intent of the law's writer matters.
I cannot figure out just what it is are trying to say, so do us both a favor and try to write postings that are clear.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:49 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
I cannot figure out just what it is are trying to say, so do us both a favor and try to write postings that are clear.
Please provide constructive feedback on what was confusing about my post.
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Old 11th January 2019, 11:51 AM   #27
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Such a bill probably won't pass, and if it does it will be challenged, and anyway there are far too many weapons out there to make any difference. As someone above said, the gun manufacturers are probably upping their sales forecasts.
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Old 11th January 2019, 01:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Olympic Arms brought out the OA-93 AR-15 pistol in 1993.
I forgot about that one. It is different in that there isn't a buffer tube in back. Still just as unwieldy as the others though. I think I recall that Bushmaster made waves with their first .223 pistol (or 7.62x39?) and the affect it had on importing steel core (AP) ammo; people were upset.
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Old 11th January 2019, 02:25 PM   #29
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Last time Feinstein proposed a ban it went nowhere. 14 DEMOCRAT Senators said they would never be re-elected of they supported it. She is just grand-standing for the folks back home in the most anti-gun state ever.
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Old 12th January 2019, 04:22 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Last time Feinstein proposed a ban it went nowhere. 14 DEMOCRAT Senators said they would never be re-elected of they supported it. She is just grand-standing for the folks back home in the most anti-gun state ever.
This, as usual.
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Old 13th January 2019, 10:16 AM   #31
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Looks like another planned manipulation to scare enough of the gun-lovers into another spending spree and to cause more divisiveness amongst the middle and lower classes of gun-owners and non-gun-owners.
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Old 13th January 2019, 02:54 PM   #32
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Sadly, this will go nowhere. And 30,000-plus Americans will die by gun this year too.
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Old 14th January 2019, 08:31 AM   #33
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This thread is why it's better to go after magazine size. With an assault weapons ban, you just end up playing whack-a-mole with loopholes.
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:20 AM   #34
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Indeed .. is there even clearly stated reason why barrel shroud, collapsible stock, flash hider etc. are regulated ? Or even study they play any effect ?
Mags sure are far from perfect, as they are cheap and easy to stockpile, but it's something.
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:33 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Indeed .. is there even clearly stated reason why
Probably not a clearly stated reason, no.

Quote:
barrel shroud,
So you can grasp the barrel with your off hand and go full auto like they do in 'Nam.

Quote:
collapsible stock,
So you can fold the gun up and hide it under your trench coat.

Quote:
flash hider
So that the muzzle flash doesn't give you away when you start your killing spree.

Quote:
etc. are regulated ? Or even study they play any effect ?
I'm pretty sure the various militaries and gun manufacturers of the world have done quite a few studies on ergonomics, feature sets, optimal configurations and trade-offs, etc. Fabrique National (FN) must have done some serious ergonomic studies when designing the P90. Tavor and the Israeli army probably put a lot of study into the design of the TAR.

But I doubt the lobbyists and politicians behind the "assault weapon" rules are making sensible references to any actual studies.

Quote:
Mags sure are far from perfect, as they are cheap and easy to stockpile, but it's something.
In a "we must do something; this is something; we must do this!" kind of way, sure.

Last edited by theprestige; 14th January 2019 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:42 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Indeed .. is there even clearly stated reason why barrel shroud, collapsible stock, flash hider etc. are regulated ? Or even study they play any effect ?
They look dangerous and cool. Can't have that.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:44 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
This is what assault pistols used to be as defined from 1994-2004. As far as I can tell this Wikipedia article is accurate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...lt_Weapons_Ban

As far as I know the AR-15 handguns (short barrel and no stock, just the buffer tube extending back) were not a thing back in 1994. I saw my first at-15 pistol only ten years ago.
They certainly were.

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Old 14th January 2019, 09:45 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Sadly, this will go nowhere. And 30,000-plus Americans will die by gun this year too.

How many will be killed by "assault weapons"* versus handguns?

*You may use whatever definition you choose as to what the heck an "assault weapon" might be.
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

Last edited by LTC8K6; 14th January 2019 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:46 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
They certainly were.

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Already posted...
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 14th January 2019, 09:49 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I forgot about that one. It is different in that there isn't a buffer tube in back
Why does having a recoil spring intended originally to be in a stock vs moving it to somewhere else make such a big deal in this class of handguns?
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