ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags LeBron James , racism charges , racism issues

Reply
Old 22nd December 2018, 05:58 PM   #41
lobosrul5
Graduate Poster
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,575
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
You might notice that I was very careful to indicate the USA specifically in my posts. I don't see abandoning one's country just to have a job as a trivial option to the NBA. But aren't we discussing the NFL now? And citing the CFL as an option vs the NFL is just silly. They are truly completely different leagues.
I guess I'm unclear what the problem is. If you want to make money in the basketball profesion and you have the talent sign with an NBA team.. Or don't. Go to a foreign league, play for the globetrotters, play for Ice Cube's league (BIG3), start your own rival league, or get into coaching. If you want to make the argument that too many old white dudes own too much, doesn't that apply, like, to everything?
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2018, 06:01 PM   #42
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,477
I like LaBron James, for a number of reasons. Hyperbole, yes. Racism? No.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2018, 06:38 PM   #43
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,248
An easy way to determine if the statement was racist would be to switch "white" to "black" and see if it holds up.

In this case I would say it doesn't. The reference is to a small group of white men, not all white people, there is not generalization about white people in the statement. The second thing to note is, are NFL teams pretty much all owned by Old White Guys? If so then it's an accurate description, not racism.

Racism is where you use a, usually negative, generalization about a racism to describe a person or group. For instance saying that a black person is a drug dealer because all blacks are drug dealers.

Had he said that the old white men in charge of the NFL had a slave owner mentality like all whites, that would have been racist. What he said wasn't.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2018, 06:46 PM   #44
lobosrul5
Graduate Poster
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,575
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
An easy way to determine if the statement was racist would be to switch "white" to "black" and see if it holds up.

In this case I would say it doesn't. The reference is to a small group of white men, not all white people, there is not generalization about white people in the statement. The second thing to note is, are NFL teams pretty much all owned by Old White Guys? If so then it's an accurate description, not racism.

Racism is where you use a, usually negative, generalization about a racism to describe a person or group. For instance saying that a black person is a drug dealer because all blacks are drug dealers.

Had he said that the old white men in charge of the NFL had a slave owner mentality like all whites, that would have been racist. What he said wasn't.
Complaining that a bunch of old black men own something would be highly inflammatory. It would be about like someone complaining that Jews control the entertainment industry and that's gotten many people fired. Ie Rick Sanchez.

Eta: what James said isn't exactly racsist in of itself, its our reaction to it that is.

Last edited by lobosrul5; 22nd December 2018 at 06:49 PM.
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2018, 07:20 PM   #45
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,829
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...toward-players

To me this sounds like a racist statement. Does this represent acceptable everyday racism against white people? I don't know how society will react to what James just said, but I can imagine that if a white person said a comparable thing about black people there would be widespread outrage at the discovery of yet another white racist. I can also imagine serious consequences if something like that happened.

Racism should not be acceptable coming from anyone regardless of their race or who they are and that includes LeBron James. I post this here rather than the Sports Forum because this is a Social Issue.
I don't find the comment to be racist, with the caveat that I would likely not find your "comparable comment" racist either.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd December 2018, 08:36 PM   #46
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 7,065
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
True, but those are not playing basketball, which, from my limited interactions with athletes, is what many athletes live and die for.
Again, quite true. But how many of us get to do exactly what we live and die for, and receives a king's ransom as a bonus? Really finding it hard to work up any sympathy here. Professional athletes have notoriously short careers in their fields, the occasional George Foremans excepted. The coin made during their 20's is often exponentially more than what others will earn in their entire lifetimes. Perhaps, like others, they could do something else career-wise afterwards? Not too unreasonable, I would think.

Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
And rich CEOs complain about the thread count in the sheets in their $10,000 a night luxury hotel rooms. That is just how people are. At least I can see LeBron James complaints as relating to, and potentially helping other, less well off players.

I also doubt that playing professional basketball is as unrelenting "fun" as you appear to be suggesting. It is brutal mentally and physically with the real prospect of a career-ending injury during any game or even any practice. And with near constant physical conditioning, intense practice sessions, and the over-reaching "are you scoring enough to keep on the team" question overhanging much of their day to day life (at least during the sports season and to some extent beyond).

Pure "fun" is a pick up game on Saturday with your buddies when your very job is not on the line, you can quit any time you wish, you are not being judged by a million people including your boss, and you can get a beer later. I am certain that professional basketball players have fun at their work (as do I). But it is a much more complex and unalloyed form of fun than just enjoying a game, just as my fun at my work is offset by the inevitable unpleasant obligations, worries, concerns, and exhausting efforts.
Agreed, not just all fun. There are pressures and relentless conditioning. Still, I think most are more than willing to make those sacrifices to do what they do.

Quote:
Again,I am not crying for James: multiple millions of dollar salaries must help a lot. But as I posted, many do not achieve his level of success and I can see the complexities. I do not demean him or his right to put forward the problems as he sees them. He is paid to play basketball, not hush money.
I think the issue here is whether or not there is an actual problem, or if James is being obnoxiously entitled. Yes, the NFL team owners are highly demanding in a competitive game. Shouldn't they be? Does James expect the players to dictate how things will be, and the owners just cut the checks and shut up? The slaveowners comment is not just hyperbole; it is over the top entitlement. And yes, pretty damned racist.
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 03:07 AM   #47
Baylor
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 7,430
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Racism should not be acceptable coming from anyone regardless of their race or who they are and that includes LeBron James.
This place reminds me of an aging priest who has begun to doubt his faith. He is depressed because he thinks he dedicated his life to a lie.

The same is true for white boomer "skeptics." He has invested much of his life thinking the world would eventually be "color blind" and "not care about race." He thought if he could just get the 7.5 billion non-whites to think like him, mankind humankind peoplekind would be saved. The white boomer skeptic is realizing he has dedicated his life to a lie.
Baylor is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 04:23 AM   #48
Archie Gemmill Goal
Philosopher
 
Archie Gemmill Goal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 5,652
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...toward-players

To me this sounds like a racist statement. Does this represent acceptable everyday racism against white people? I don't know how society will react to what James just said, but I can imagine that if a white person said a comparable thing about black people there would be widespread outrage at the discovery of yet another white racist. I can also imagine serious consequences if something like that happened.

Racism should not be acceptable coming from anyone regardless of their race or who they are and that includes LeBron James. I post this here rather than the Sports Forum because this is a Social Issue.
NFL team owning old white men is not a race so no.
__________________
"I love sex and drugs and sausage rolls
But nothing compares to Archie Gemmill's goal"
Archie Gemmill Goal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 04:55 AM   #49
Garrison
Illuminator
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,669
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm more intrigued by James' idea that having a job is like being a slave.
It's not even an original piece of hyperbole:

I am a slave, says Ronaldo as he pushes for Madrid move


It seems some ridiculously highly paid sports stars regard the notion that they should actually have to fulfil the terms of their contracts as being akin to slavery, it seems to be more about ego than racism.
__________________
So I've started a blog about my writing. Check it out at: http://fourth-planet-problem.blogspot.com/
And my first book is on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077W322FX
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 05:16 AM   #50
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 18,248
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Complaining that a bunch of old black men own something would be highly inflammatory.
Not if it's actually true.

Quote:
It would be about like someone complaining that Jews control the entertainment industry and that's gotten many people fired. Ie Rick Sanchez.
That's because it's not actually true, so it becomes an attack on Jews rather than an expression of truth.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 09:06 AM   #51
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 20,674
Haven't read the whole thread, not going to, but....

Professional athlete says something stupid. In other news, water is wet and the sun rose in the east this morning.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 09:35 AM   #52
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,930
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Haven't read the whole thread, not going to, but....

Professional athlete says something stupid. In other news, water is wet and the sun rose in the east this morning.
When you’re a Trump-era conservative, you have to grasp at whatever straws you can.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 11:30 AM   #53
autumn1971
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,696
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Those poor black slaves. Some are only on $25m a year.
Oh won’t somebody think of the poor owners making hundreds of millions a year.

Pearls must be clutched when the ******* get uppity
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 11:37 AM   #54
baron
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Oh won’t somebody think of the poor owners making hundreds of millions a year.
The comparison is slaves vs non-slaves, not players vs owners. With that in mind, relax those fingers.
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 11:59 AM   #55
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,377
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
Oh won’t somebody think of the poor owners making hundreds of millions a year.

Pearls must be clutched when the ******* get uppity
This is exactly my reaction. Seeing players earning big money really upsets some people, whereas seeing the owners, or the CEOs of failing companies, etc., doing so does not cause nearly such a reaction.

Such salaries for players are portrayed by these folks as "undeserved." I guess seeing players make out well causes even dyed-in-the-wool conservatives to forget completely their commitment to the free market. Why do the top players earn multi-million of dollars during the (often brief) years they can play? Because the top players bring in more than enough money in turn to make substantial profits for the owners. Because they are worth it in a simple economic sense! People pay to see them. That's the American way, right? You can't be earning too much if that is what you are worth in a competitive market to the organization paying you!

Even more so - why would anyone earning a substantial of money upset others? Especially people who did not come from a life of privilege and family wealth. Good for them! And no skin off my teeth, unless it results in me being priced out of tickets. Is that the problem? Frankly I doubt ticket prices would drop much if we undercut play salaries. And aren't most of us watching on TV? So is it jealousy or a feeling that the common people (perhaps certain common people in particular) need to be "kept in their places?" I wonder...

Last edited by Giordano; 23rd December 2018 at 12:01 PM.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:26 PM   #56
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,930
Originally Posted by baron View Post
The comparison is slaves vs non-slaves, not players vs owners. With that in mind, relax those fingers.
Ironic advice considering how bent out of shape you got over a comparison that Lebron didn't actually make.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:38 PM   #57
baron
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Ironic advice considering how bent out of shape you got over a comparison that Lebron didn't actually make.
"Bent out of shape" = "offended me with your different opinions." I only wish I could offer you a safe space to recover from my traumatic words.
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:41 PM   #58
baron
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This is exactly my reaction. Seeing players earning big money really upsets some people, whereas seeing the owners, or the CEOs of failing companies, etc., doing so does not cause nearly such a reaction.
But the CEOs aren't complaining that they are slaves.

What surprises me is that any criticism of certain sports people receives, from some quarters, an outraged defence, as if the very act of not treating these individuals as the gods they believe themselves to be is a kind of blasphemy.
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:43 PM   #59
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,930
Originally Posted by baron View Post
"Bent out of shape" = "offended me with your different opinions." I only wish I could offer you a safe space to recover from my traumatic words.
The only thing to which your words are traumatic is the concept of reading comprehension.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:44 PM   #60
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,930
Originally Posted by baron View Post
But the CEOs aren't complaining that they are slaves.
Neither is LeBron.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:53 PM   #61
baron
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
The only thing to which your words are traumatic is the concept of reading comprehension.
I'm going to go ahead and question your grammar here. Brace yourself.

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Neither is LeBron.
That's great. If nobody is complaining then I'm happy.
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th December 2018, 06:27 AM   #62
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,126
JBA
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th December 2018, 04:54 PM   #63
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,497
Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
NFL team owning old white men is not a race so no.
What about young black thugs?

If so, I really want to know your definition of race. If not then your are not logically consistent and your arguement is unlikely to sway any one.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th December 2018, 04:57 PM   #64
sadhatter
Philosopher
 
sadhatter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,497
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Not if it's actually true.



That's because it's not actually true, so it becomes an attack on Jews rather than an expression of truth.
But the person saying it believes it to be true.

Your logic is like saying Christians are liars because God isn't real and they say he is. It ignores the context of belief.
sadhatter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th December 2018, 03:04 PM   #65
Steve
Illuminator
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,843
Regarding the linked article and ignoring the posts in this thread, I think James makes valid points about the NFL. Kapernick has been blacklisted by the team owners, who seek to dictate control over aspects of the players that have nothing to do with football. Was his comment about the NFL owners racist? Maybe so, but justified in context.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th December 2018, 03:06 PM   #66
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 24,781
Hand me my pearls! They needs some clutching right now! And my knickers need twisting!
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th December 2018, 04:32 PM   #67
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 33,197
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Regarding the linked article and ignoring the posts in this thread, I think James makes valid points about the NFL. Kapernick has been blacklisted by the team owners, who seek to dictate control over aspects of the players that have nothing to do with football. Was his comment about the NFL owners racist? Maybe so, but justified in context.
Aspects that have everything to do with football. Pro sports are entertainment. The public personas of professional entertainers have always been an important part of the business of entertainment.

And we only have to look outside of the entertainment industry to see a double standard in your idea.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th December 2018, 04:56 PM   #68
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,084
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This is exactly my reaction. Seeing players earning big money really upsets some people, whereas seeing the owners, or the CEOs of failing companies, etc., doing so does not cause nearly such a reaction.

Such salaries for players are portrayed by these folks as "undeserved." I guess seeing players make out well causes even dyed-in-the-wool conservatives to forget completely their commitment to the free market. Why do the top players earn multi-million of dollars during the (often brief) years they can play? Because the top players bring in more than enough money in turn to make substantial profits for the owners. Because they are worth it in a simple economic sense! People pay to see them. That's the American way, right? You can't be earning too much if that is what you are worth in a competitive market to the organization paying you!

Even more so - why would anyone earning a substantial of money upset others? Especially people who did not come from a life of privilege and family wealth. Good for them! And no skin off my teeth, unless it results in me being priced out of tickets. Is that the problem? Frankly I doubt ticket prices would drop much if we undercut play salaries. And aren't most of us watching on TV? So is it jealousy or a feeling that the common people (perhaps certain common people in particular) need to be "kept in their places?" I wonder...
The thread is about multimillion dollar celebrities complaining about being treated like a slave. If the burden is too much he can do one thing that other slaves could not do and that is find another job/employer. If multi million dollar CEOs start whinging about being slaves, or cry about comparing their jobs to being forced to whore themselves out on a nightly basis, ect. let me know and I will call out their BS as well. Forgive me for reserving my sympathetic outrage for actual victims of slavery.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th December 2018, 05:01 PM   #69
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,084
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Regarding the linked article and ignoring the posts in this thread, I think James makes valid points about the NFL. Kapernick has been blacklisted by the team owners, who seek to dictate control over aspects of the players that have nothing to do with football. Was his comment about the NFL owners racist? Maybe so, but justified in context.
Oh no! and now they are going to give him 50 lashes, stick him in the hotbox for a day and send him out in the fields while they resell his wife and children! If only he had a way to escape and start a new life! Thank god us mere mortals with finite resources and below average wage jobs get to lord it over him.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th December 2018, 05:10 PM   #70
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,084
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Neither is LeBron.
Oh no he is just claiming that following your employers job related orders for an agreed amount of compensation is exhibiting a slave mentality. Why can't the employees tell the owner how to run his business? Stupid old white slave driver mentality. Pays people millions to play with a ball for a few months of the year. Tells his employees what he expects, Oh The humanity!

Last edited by Hungry81; 25th December 2018 at 05:12 PM.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 01:52 AM   #71
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,227
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm more intrigued by James' idea that having a job is like being a slave.
Professional sports like the NFL is different from other professions.

Imagine if, after graduating from high school or college with a degree in, say computer science, that companies could "draft" you and then you would have to go work for that company and no other, or find another field of work besides what you studied in college. And you couldn't go to work for any other company until you put in 6 years at the company that "drafted" you, unless they "release" you or trade you to another company (which you have no say in).

So it's not just a normal job.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 05:42 AM   #72
Hungry81
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,084
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Professional sports like the NFL is different from other professions.



Imagine if, after graduating from high school or college with a degree in, say computer science, that companies could "draft" you and then you would have to go work for that company and no other, or find another field of work besides what you studied in college. And you couldn't go to work for any other company until you put in 6 years at the company that "drafted" you, unless they "release" you or trade you to another company (which you have no say in).



So it's not just a normal job.
What does everyone else do who graduates from college with a degree and then either cannot find a job in their chosen field, or suddenly realise that they do not actually like their job in their chosen field? Especially when everyone else is not being paid millions of dollars to suffer through a job.
Hungry81 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 05:51 AM   #73
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,352
It's okay, he's getting that Jewish money...

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2018/...-a-compliment/
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 07:35 AM   #74
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,183
How little does one have to be earning before one is allowed to voice concerns over the contracts offered by a monopoly?
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 07:47 AM   #75
SuburbanTurkey
Graduate Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 1,425
Professional sports are weird. Owners very much so have a cartel and league rules have a tremendous affect on the athletes. The players also have very strong unions and have been very effective in the past for advocacy.

Things like the draft and salary caps have negative impacts on players, especially young players, but also help keep leagues competitive by allowing marginal teams with small budgets to keep up with the bigger teams. The interests of an open, fair job market are a lower priority to keeping the league itself diverse, competitive, and interesting.

I find it hard to get animated by the plight of the wealthy athlete. They have a strong union, popular support, and all the money needed to hire lawyers to forcefully advocate for their best interests. These guys aren't exactly the downtrodden working man.

The real scandals of exploiting players occurs at the college level, where student athletes are explicitly forbidden from enjoying any part of the enormous sums of money generated by their efforts.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 08:01 AM   #76
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,126
Like a racist?
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 08:05 AM   #77
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 33,197
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
How little does one have to be earning before one is allowed to voice concerns over the contracts offered by a monopoly?
One doesn't have to be earning anything at all.

Indeed, if one is concerned about such things, not contracting with a monopoly, nor earning their money, is a perfectly cromulent option. An option slaves didn't have.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 08:14 AM   #78
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 3,665
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
To me this sounds like a racist statement. Does this represent acceptable everyday racism against white people?
Yes, and yes. It is racism. I think he's just playing to the crowd.

Quote:
I don't know how society will react to what James just said, but I can imagine that if a white person said a comparable thing about black people there would be widespread outrage at the discovery of yet another white racist. I can also imagine serious consequences if something like that happened.
And another "yes" for the hat-trick!
__________________
I drink to the general joy o' th' whole table. --William Shakespeare
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 10:10 AM   #79
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,930
Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Oh no he is just claiming that following your employers job related orders for an agreed amount of compensation is exhibiting a slave mentality. Why can't the employees tell the owner how to run his business? Stupid old white slave driver mentality. Pays people millions to play with a ball for a few months of the year. Tells his employees what he expects, Oh The humanity!
Am I the only one who finds it laughably ironic that in a thread criticizing someone's over-the-top hyperbole, his critics resort to using over-the-top hyperbole?

*reads through thread*

Apparently, yes.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th December 2018, 10:14 AM   #80
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,930
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Yes, and yes. It is racism. I think he's just playing to the crowd.
Sounds like LeBron should run for president. His crowd-pleasing racism alone should get him the vote of a few of the pearl-clutchers in this thread.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.