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Tags LeBron James , racism charges , racism issues

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Old 26th December 2018, 10:29 AM   #81
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't know how society will react to what James just said, but I can imagine that if a white person said a comparable thing about black people there would be widespread outrage at the discovery of yet another white racist. I can also imagine serious consequences if something like that happened.
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
And another "yes" for the hat-trick!
Can either of you offer an example of what this "comparable thing" would look like? You can use any industry run almost exclusively by black people which employs mostly white people in your example.

Can either of you offer an example of "serious consequences" a white person suffered for being allegedly racist?

Because I can provide examples of blatantly racist white people being rewarded with things like votes and positions of power.

I think it would be beneficial to the discussion to compare and contrast.
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Old 26th December 2018, 10:53 AM   #82
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This is all semantics.

A black/white dynamic can be "wrong" or "exploitative" or "unfairly unbalanced" without being slavery.

Can you quit doing it? Then it's not slavery. Are you paid to do it? Then it's not slavery. This ain't that hard.
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Old 26th December 2018, 11:25 AM   #83
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Can either of you offer an example of what this "comparable thing" would look like?
Not to your satisfaction.

Quote:
Can either of you offer an example of "serious consequences" a white person suffered for being allegedly racist?
What is being "allegedly racist"? I can offer examples of serious consequences a white person suffered for being racist. Even you should be able to come up with a few if you're really insterested.

Quote:
Because I can provide examples of blatantly racist white people being rewarded with things like votes and positions of power.
So?
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Old 26th December 2018, 11:43 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The real scandals of exploiting players occurs at the college level, where student athletes are explicitly forbidden from enjoying any part of the enormous sums of money generated by their efforts.
This. It's outrageous that student athletes generate such vast sums and don't get a cut.
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Old 26th December 2018, 11:44 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One doesn't have to be earning anything at all.
I don't quite get what you mean here. It doesn't seem to be an answer I can apply to the question.
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Old 26th December 2018, 12:26 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Not to your satisfaction.
That's no, then. Thanks.

Quote:
What is being "allegedly racist"? I can offer examples of serious consequences a white person suffered for being racist. Even you should be able to come up with a few if you're really insterested.
It's your claim, or at least one you with which agree. And that position is that a white person wouldn't get away with something like this.

Looking at incidents of white people suffering "serious consequences" for their racism (alleged or actual) allows us to compare and contrast with this incident to see if white people are actually treated unfairly, as you are implying.

Quote:
So?
White people get away with racism all the time, and are sometimes even rewarded for it. It flies in the face of the "serious consequences" argument that you and others in this thread are wringing your hands over.
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Old 26th December 2018, 03:06 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Sounds like LeBron should run for president. His crowd-pleasing racism alone should get him the vote of a few of the pearl-clutchers in this thread.
Only a couple more references to pearl-clutching and the leftists will have won this argument hands down. Because that's all it takes.
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Old 26th December 2018, 08:31 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I don't quite get what you mean here. It doesn't seem to be an answer I can apply to the question.
Probably it's a bad question.
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Old 27th December 2018, 04:22 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Probably it's a bad question.

No, it's a perfectly legitimate question.

But it's okay, I understand why you tried to answer it the way you did but the question and your apparent answer just didn't connect.


It's an entirely valid question. If you don't know the answer, you can just say 'I don't know'.
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Old 27th December 2018, 09:00 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Professional sports are weird. Owners very much so have a cartel and league rules have a tremendous affect on the athletes. The players also have very strong unions and have been very effective in the past for advocacy.

Things like the draft and salary caps have negative impacts on players, especially young players, but also help keep leagues competitive by allowing marginal teams with small budgets to keep up with the bigger teams. The interests of an open, fair job market are a lower priority to keeping the league itself diverse, competitive, and interesting.

I find it hard to get animated by the plight of the wealthy athlete. They have a strong union, popular support, and all the money needed to hire lawyers to forcefully advocate for their best interests. These guys aren't exactly the downtrodden working man.

The real scandals of exploiting players occurs at the college level, where student athletes are explicitly forbidden from enjoying any part of the enormous sums of money generated by their efforts.
Yeah now that is the real scandal is American sports. That college athletics is a multi billion dollar a year industry, with an unpaid workforce. Of course the big schools get around that with their booster clubs and there is a scandal every few years when they get caught. They even had the gall to put players likeness in games and advertising and tell them to get stuffed when they ask for recompense.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverh.../#7766ab2755b3
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Old 27th December 2018, 09:04 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Yeah now that is the real scandal is American sports. That college athletics is a multi billion dollar a year industry, with an unpaid workforce. Of course the big schools get around that with their booster clubs and there is a scandal every few years when they get caught. They even had the gall to put players likeness in games and advertising and tell them to get stuffed when they ask for recompense.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliverh.../#7766ab2755b3
These people need a union.
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Old 28th December 2018, 12:43 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The real scandals of exploiting players occurs at the college level, where student athletes are explicitly forbidden from enjoying any part of the enormous sums of money generated by their efforts.
This, I definitely agree with, and refuse to watch college sports over (not that I'm a huge sports fan). Particularly given the grueling work they do, I'm pretty sure they can't even accept money for signing autographs. Football cheerleaders don't get much pay, either.
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Old 28th December 2018, 05:09 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
This, I definitely agree with, and refuse to watch college sports over (not that I'm a huge sports fan). Particularly given the grueling work they do, I'm pretty sure they can't even accept money for signing autographs. Football cheerleaders don't get much pay, either.
I've noticed that cheerleaders have to buy the tiniest of uniforms in order to save money.
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Old 28th December 2018, 01:50 PM   #94
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LeBron wasn't complaining about his own situation, but it is fun to see that didn't stop the "spoiled greedy athlete" outrage.

The irony being that LeBron is arguably the most underpaid athlete in the history of sports due to the NBA collective bargaining agreement. Were NBA teams allowed to freely bid for his services (and LeBron only cared about how much he were paid) the mind reels as to what he'd have gotten. So if he were to complain about what he is paid, he'd be pretty justified.
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Old 28th December 2018, 05:50 PM   #95
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Quote:
"It will be hard to find Jews on the court in the National Basketball Association playoffs. But toss a basketball into an NBA owners’ meeting, and you’ll probably hit one.

There are only three Jewish players in the NBA, and no Jewish head coaches. Yet nearly half the principal owners of NBA teams are Jewish, as are the league’s current commissioner and its immediate past commissioner.

No other major pro league in the United States has such a high proportion of Jewish owners. The NFL comes closest: Roughly a third of that league’s owners are Jewish. Just a handful of pro baseball and hockey owners are Jews." - From Forward.com (Major Jewish publication)
Quite the over-representation, especially considering that Jews are around 2% of the U.S. population (per census bureau 2012 estimate)

Quote:
"LeBron James talks like a racist" - thread title

Maybe LeBron James talks like a raging Anti-Semite? Possibly without even knowing it?

Though, this could help explain why he perceives a "slave mentality" among these owners:

Quote:
"Jacob Rader Marcus, a historian and Reform rabbi, wrote in his four-volume history of Americans Jews that over 75 percent of Jewish families in Charleston, South Carolina; Richmond, Virginia; and Savannah, Georgia, owned slaves, and nearly 40 percent of Jewish households across the country did." - From MyJewishLearning.com
Hmm...

Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It's okay, he's getting that Jewish money...

Link
Perhaps he is trying to break free of the shekels that bind him in his slave-like condition?

Personally, I condemn his disgusting antisemitism in the strongest possible terms.

Last edited by Skeptic Tank; 28th December 2018 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 29th December 2018, 06:50 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
LeBron wasn't complaining about his own situation, but it is fun to see that didn't stop the "spoiled greedy athlete" outrage.



The irony being that LeBron is arguably the most underpaid athlete in the history of sports due to the NBA collective bargaining agreement. Were NBA teams allowed to freely bid for his services (and LeBron only cared about how much he were paid) the mind reels as to what he'd have gotten. So if he were to complain about what he is paid, he'd be pretty justified.
Poor Lebron. You should start up a charity or a go fund me for him. In the meantime keep watching the sport on tv (especially paying attention to the commercials!)/ buying tickets/ placing bets. If you spend enough he might get a raise, or at the very least, additional sponsorships with sweet perks.
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Old 29th December 2018, 07:37 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
LeBron wasn't complaining about his own situation, but it is fun to see that didn't stop the "spoiled greedy athlete" outrage.

The irony being that LeBron is arguably the most underpaid athlete in the history of sports due to the NBA collective bargaining agreement. Were NBA teams allowed to freely bid for his services (and LeBron only cared about how much he were paid) the mind reels as to what he'd have gotten. So if he were to complain about what he is paid, he'd be pretty justified.
Would he? How much does he get?
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Old 29th December 2018, 07:46 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Can either of you offer an example of what this "comparable thing" would look like? You can use any industry run almost exclusively by black people which employs mostly white people in your example.

Can either of you offer an example of "serious consequences" a white person suffered for being allegedly racist?

Because I can provide examples of blatantly racist white people being rewarded with things like votes and positions of power.

I think it would be beneficial to the discussion to compare and contrast.
I can't give an example of an exactly comparable thing but I can offer a similar hypothetical statement reflecting the racism of LeBron James.

Imagine a white guy publicly saying this...

"In the NFL they got a bunch of black guys playing on teams and they got that primitive jungle savage mentality," John Doe said. "And it's like, 'This is the team. We do what the **** we want to do. Or we will make trouble for y'all.'"

This is racism and what LeBron said is racism too. But I would expect negative consequences for white John Doe beginning with widespread outrage and then moves towards punishing him. There are no real consequences against LeBron James being racist against white people because that is socially acceptable and is just an everyday thing.

This kind of everyday racism against white people is so common and acceptable that it isn't even recognized for being what it is.
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Old 30th December 2018, 04:47 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Would he? How much does he get?
Seeing my question wasn't answered, I'll answer it myself.

LeBron earns $35.6m a year plus $53m a year in sponsorship. Every 10 days he earns more than the average American does in a lifetime.

In 2017 he was projected to be a billionaire before his 40th birthday.

Earlier this year he was on target to being the highest paid NBA player in history.

So yes, let's take a brief moment and allow our thoughts to be with this poor, oppressed pauper who is under the control of 'slave-masters', "the most underpaid athlete in the history of sports", who would of course be "pretty justified" "if he were to complain about what he is paid".

Alternatively, we can marvel at the hero worship necessary to come out with this crap.
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Old 30th December 2018, 05:56 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Seeing my question wasn't answered, I'll answer it myself.

LeBron earns $35.6m a year plus $53m a year in sponsorship. Every 10 days he earns more than the average American does in a lifetime.

In 2017 he was projected to be a billionaire before his 40th birthday.

Earlier this year he was on target to being the highest paid NBA player in history.

So yes, let's take a brief moment and allow our thoughts to be with this poor, oppressed pauper who is under the control of 'slave-masters', "the most underpaid athlete in the history of sports", who would of course be "pretty justified" "if he were to complain about what he is paid".

Alternatively, we can marvel at the hero worship necessary to come out with this crap.
His whole point was that he doesnnot play a sport where he is under people like slave masters. He literally said he appreciated the league and the commissioner.
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Old 30th December 2018, 07:24 AM   #101
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I guess words are louder than actions sometimes
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Old 30th December 2018, 09:19 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
This. It's outrageous that student athletes generate such vast sums and don't get a cut.
No, they don't get a cut.

They get a free college education, if they want it. Free room and board.

And more importantly they get specific job related training in their field that they can't get anywhere else, if they make it to the pros, this is probably the most valuable part of the package they get.
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Old 30th December 2018, 09:47 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
No, they don't get a cut.

They get a free college education, if they want it. Free room and board.

And more importantly they get specific job related training in their field that they can't get anywhere else, if they make it to the pros, this is probably the most valuable part of the package they get.
the beauty of a free market in college athlete is we don't have to debate how valuable that is. If it is sufficiently valuable to the athlete and school, that will be the compensation. If it is not as valuable, then the agreement will be structured differently.
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Old 30th December 2018, 09:52 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Quite the over-representation, especially considering that Jews are around 2% of the U.S. population (per census bureau 2012 estimate)




Maybe LeBron James talks like a raging Anti-Semite? Possibly without even knowing it?

Though, this could help explain why he perceives a "slave mentality" among these owners:



Hmm...



Perhaps he is trying to break free of the shekels that bind him in his slave-like condition?

Personally, I condemn his disgusting antisemitism in the strongest possible terms.
Did no one read the article? He said the (high level of Jewish) NBA owners are great.
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Old 30th December 2018, 11:59 AM   #105
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Going way back to the OP, I think the issue presented is the double standard for racist speech. The justification I often hear is that POC are not in a position of power and therefore cannot be racist. James does not seem to have that out. He has immense social and economic power. Does this affect his privelege to say hateful things with impunity?
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:06 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Going way back to the OP, I think the issue presented is the double standard for racist speech. The justification I often hear is that POC are not in a position of power and therefore cannot be racist. James does not seem to have that out. He has immense social and economic power. Does this affect his privelege to say hateful things with impunity?
James does still have that.
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:11 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
James does still have that.
Has what? The right to say whatever he pleases (a given), or the privilege of doing so with societal approval?
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:16 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Has what? The right to say whatever he pleases (a given), or the privilege of doing so with societal approval?
The status of being in a position absent power such that he cannot be racist.
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:17 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The status of being in a position absent power such that he cannot be racist.
How are you defining racist?

Eta: or power, for that matter
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:26 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
How are you defining racist?

Eta: or power, for that matter
In the same manner as you referred to when you cited the supposed justification. As I understand the theory, there is no exception with sufficient wealth or say.
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:28 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
In the same manner as you referred to when you cited the supposed justification. As I understand the theory, there is no exception with sufficient wealth or say.
I would see him in a position of superior power over most of the planet, so I'm not sure how he can claim powerlessness by being black
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:30 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I would see him in a position of superior power over most of the planet, so I'm not sure how he can claim powerlessness by being black
Because the social science you are citing doesn't make an exception.
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:34 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Because the social science you are citing doesn't make an exception.
I don't care what exception the social science includes. It may be reasonable, or not. Hence the question on a skeptical discussion forum to consider it
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:36 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I don't care what exception the social science includes. It may be reasonable, or not. Hence the question on a skeptical discussion forum to consider it
Then I don't the no either of us have the requisite knowledge of social sciences to make that judgement if it is accurate or not.
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:38 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then I don't the no either of us have the requisite knowledge of social sciences to make that judgement if it is accurate or not.
You're doing it again, aren't you?
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:40 PM   #116
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You're doing it again, aren't you?
Being skeptical? Yes
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:41 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Going way back to the OP, I think the issue presented is the double standard for racist speech.
Not really - people of any race could say the exact same thing - still wouldn't be racist.
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:44 PM   #118
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Ok. Social science is not a forum member. SS is not being asked to opine. Would you consider James to be immune to accusations of racism based on being black?
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:48 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok. Social science is not a forum member. SS is not being asked to opine. Would you consider James to be immune to accusations of racism based on being black?
I have no opinion on that.
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Old 30th December 2018, 12:54 PM   #120
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Question

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I have no opinion on that.
I hate you
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