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Tags LeBron James , racism charges , racism issues

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Old 30th December 2018, 01:07 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Not really - people of any race could say the exact same thing - still wouldn't be racist.
James coupled 'old white' men with 'slaveowner mentality', or something like that. That is not an offensive racial stereotype? Being 'white' men had nothing to do with the subject of team ownership
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Old 30th December 2018, 01:15 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
James coupled 'old white' men with 'slaveowner mentality', or something like that. That is not an offensive racial stereotype? Being 'white' men had nothing to do with the subject of team ownership
I'm not familiar with the stereotype. I can't recall a stereotype about certain people being grouped as slave owners.
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Old 30th December 2018, 01:19 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm not familiar with the stereotype. I can't recall a stereotype about certain people being grouped as slave owners.
You're doing this on purpose
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Old 30th December 2018, 01:20 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Not really - people of any race could say the exact same thing - still wouldn't be racist.
He's associating negativity with the concept of being white. Pretty much racism by definition.
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Old 30th December 2018, 02:06 PM   #125
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The topic has been beaten to death but the thread keeps bob-bob-bobbin along.
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Old 30th December 2018, 02:53 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
He's associating negativity with the concept of being white. Pretty much racism by definition.
False. He's contrasting the attitude of the NFL owners towards the players on their teams (controlling, commandeering), top the attitude the NBA owners have towards the players on their teams (much friendlier, more accommodating). Both sets of owners are mostly white, both sets of players mostly black. Not racist pretty much by definition.
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Old 30th December 2018, 02:56 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok. Social science is not a forum member. SS is not being asked to opine. Would you consider James to be immune to accusations of racism based on being black?
Given what I've said about black supremacists, no.
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Old 30th December 2018, 03:29 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
False. He's contrasting the attitude of the NFL owners towards the players on their teams (controlling, commandeering), top the attitude the NBA owners have towards the players on their teams (much friendlier, more accommodating). Both sets of owners are mostly white, both sets of players mostly black. Not racist pretty much by definition.
So what if they're white? The only conceivable reason for mentioning it is by way of a negative reference. I'm sure they're all short as compared to the players, but he didn't say short men. White, to fit in with slave owners, because we all know that's what whites are like, oppressors, and whites are the only ones to ever own slaves, which are all black. You can kid yourself all day about how this isn't racist but you're fooling nobody.
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Old 30th December 2018, 04:31 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
So what if they're white? The only conceivable reason for mentioning it is by way of a negative reference. I'm sure they're all short as compared to the players, but he didn't say short men. White, to fit in with slave owners, because we all know that's what whites are like, oppressors, and whites are the only ones to ever own slaves, which are all black. You can kid yourself all day about how this isn't racist but you're fooling nobody.
Meanwhile in Zimbabwe, I bet the children in the diamond-asbestos-mercury-lead-uranium mines are telling their child soldier guards, life may be ****, but at least we are not American NFL sports star slaves.

I am sure if we ask them nicely they will be happy to donate a portion of their daily food and clothes rations to the Lebron James USA sports slave fund.
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Old 30th December 2018, 07:10 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Given what I've said about black supremacists, no.
Sorry, what? You had 5 posts ITT and I didn't see a word about black supremacists.
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Old 30th December 2018, 09:39 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Meanwhile in Zimbabwe, I bet the children in the diamond-asbestos-mercury-lead-uranium mines are telling their child soldier guards, life may be ****, but at least we are not American NFL sports star slaves.

I am sure if we ask them nicely they will be happy to donate a portion of their daily food and clothes rations to the Lebron James USA sports slave fund.
Yeah, if there is even the slightest possibility that someone somewhere might be worse off than you, you are not allowed to complain about anything ever.
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Old 31st December 2018, 03:53 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
Meanwhile in Zimbabwe, I bet the children in the diamond-asbestos-mercury-lead-uranium mines are telling their child soldier guards, life may be ****, but at least we are not American NFL sports star slaves.

I am sure if we ask them nicely they will be happy to donate a portion of their daily food and clothes rations to the Lebron James USA sports slave fund.
Somebody should because how else can you get by on $1m a week? On top of that, they are apparently required to do what their boss tells them. I mean, who else is forced to endure such indignity?
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Old 31st December 2018, 05:32 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
So what if they're white? The only conceivable reason for mentioning it is by way of a negative reference. I'm sure they're all short as compared to the players, but he didn't say short men. White, to fit in with slave owners, because we all know that's what whites are like, oppressors, and whites are the only ones to ever own slaves, which are all black. You can kid yourself all day about how this isn't racist but you're fooling nobody.
But he is comparing and contrasting to same sized groups of white owners. So it isn't a racial attribute he is critiquing.

The Google search dictionary gives two definitions of racism

Quote:
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
That doesn't describe what he said. Is the word you are looking for is "racial?"
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Old 31st December 2018, 07:57 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
But he is comparing and contrasting to same sized groups of white owners. So it isn't a racial attribute he is critiquing.

The Google search dictionary gives two definitions of racism



That doesn't describe what he said. Is the word you are looking for is "racial?"
Nope, it's what I said, racist. The definition is right there, you quoted it:

Quote:
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
His specific reference to the race of the group, white, in a negative context is a clear intimation that blacks would be superior in that role. It's actually one of the best examples of racism on these boards in some while.
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Old 31st December 2018, 08:01 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Nope, it's what I said, racist. The definition is right there, you quoted it:



His specific reference to the race of the group, white, in a negative context is a clear intimation that blacks would be superior in that role. It's actually one of the best examples of racism on these boards in some while.
I see no intimation blacks would be better when he explicitly says a different group of whites is already doing it better.
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Old 31st December 2018, 08:19 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I see no intimation blacks would be better when he explicitly says a different group of whites is already doing it better.
But blacks would do it best of all. Why else would he mention their skin colour?
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Old 31st December 2018, 08:20 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
But blacks would do it best of all. Why else would he mention their skin colour?
Argument from ignorance fallacy
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Old 31st December 2018, 08:35 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Argument from ignorance fallacy
Don't do it then.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:17 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
So what if they're white? The only conceivable reason for mentioning it is by way of a negative reference. I'm sure they're all short as compared to the players, but he didn't say short men. White, to fit in with slave owners, because we all know that's what whites are like, oppressors, and whites are the only ones to ever own slaves, which are all black. You can kid yourself all day about how this isn't racist but you're fooling nobody.
And what's the issue of stating that the owners are white, if they are white?

This reminds me of people who throw a fit when labeled "straight" or "cis". It seems a lot like they want to have no label, to just be normal, while those other people get a label, because they're "not normal". Doesn't work that way. m The NFL owners are old white guys who treat players (regardless of *their* race)m like slaves. The NBA owners are often old white men as well, but don't expect players (again, regardless of race) to bow to their every whim. Thus, why Bron can get away with things that got Kaepernick run out of the NFL entirely.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:20 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Sorry, what? You had 5 posts ITT and I didn't see a word about black supremacists.
I see no need to do it here. Feel free to search for my name and, say, "Farrakhan". But this is of no relevance to the thread.

Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Yeah, if there is even the slightest possibility that someone somewhere might be worse off than you, you are not allowed to complain about anything ever.
Even stranger, given that Bron was already discussing the treatment of others in the oh-so-horrible partial statement given in the OP.

(and I'll notice that none of his detractors seem even dimly aware of his charitable contributions.)
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:23 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And what's the issue of stating that the owners are white, if they are white?
What if they aren't actually all white? Shahid Kahn, for instance might not like that label.

Also, Daniel Snyder might take issue with being lumped into that group.

But why bother with nuance when you can generalize an entire group of people based largely on how they look and/or things they may not even be associated with. Seems like there's a word for that kind of behavior.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:50 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And what's the issue of stating that the owners are white, if they are white?

This reminds me of people who throw a fit when labeled "straight" or "cis". It seems a lot like they want to have no label, to just be normal, while those other people get a label, because they're "not normal". Doesn't work that way.
That's bizarre. I've never heard a white person complain about being called white unless there's a negative connotation attached. If I comment on a news item saying, "Another thug gets jail time, good riddance," it's different to me saying, "Another black thug gets jail time, good riddance," regardless of the fact the man is actually black. What's more, I imagine you'd be one of the first to bring me up on it. But when a black man uses the word 'white' in the same manner it's hand waved away - "Well, they are white, aren't they?"

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The NFL owners are old white guys who treat players (regardless of *their* race)m like slaves.
No, they treat them like what they are, literally the most privileged humans on the planet.
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Old 31st December 2018, 01:00 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
What if they aren't actually all white? Shahid Kahn, for instance might not like that label.

Also, Daniel Snyder might take issue with being lumped into that group.

But why bother with nuance when you can generalize an entire group of people based largely on how they look and/or things they may not even be associated with. Seems like there's a word for that kind of behavior.
Stereotyping
...but not racism by the Google definition


ETA: Dan Snyder isn't white?

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Old 31st December 2018, 04:53 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And what's the issue of stating that the owners are white, if they are white?
What's the issue of stating that thugs are black, if they are black?

What's the issue of stating race at all, in any context where race isn't strictly relevant?
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Old 1st January 2019, 01:29 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's the issue of stating that thugs are black, if they are black?

What's the issue of stating race at all, in any context where race isn't strictly relevant?
because you, like baron, are hellbent on not understanding this basic and easily understood point point, I will say this for others, and perhaps larger text will help someone understand a bit - perhaps they just missed it the first few hundred times it was explained.

It is correct to call a black person a thug if he is actually a violent criminal, it is racist to call Trayvon Martin a thug because he was black and the person. George Zimmerman was the actual thug in their encounter and this was obvious almost as soon as his police call was made available. There is a difference between judging based on behavior and judging based on skin color.

Same as here - two groups of white men, two different behaviors, thus two different judgements. And it's fine to say "that black dude there is a thug, I saw him beat up his girlfriend." if those are facts. "Thugs are black" is obviously false, and racist.

Now, go away, I have no further use for you.

Last edited by Mumbles; 1st January 2019 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 1st January 2019, 04:35 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
because you, like baron, are hellbent on not understanding this basic and easily understood point point, I will say this for others, and perhaps larger text will help someone understand a bit - perhaps they just missed it the first few hundred times it was explained.

It is correct to call a black person a thug if he is actually a violent criminal, it is racist to call Trayvon Martin a thug because he was black and the person. George Zimmerman was the actual thug in their encounter and this was obvious almost as soon as his police call was made available. There is a difference between judging based on behavior and judging based on skin color.

Same as here - two groups of white men, two different behaviors, thus two different judgements. And it's fine to say "that black dude there is a thug, I saw him beat up his girlfriend." if those are facts. "Thugs are black" is obviously false, and racist.
What about the example I gave? You seem to have ignored it in favour of a strawman, and a very poor one at that. Throwing a tantrum and writing in huge text doesn't make you less wrong.

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Now, go away, I have no further use for you.
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Old 9th January 2019, 07:34 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Seeing my question wasn't answered, I'll answer it myself.

LeBron earns $35.6m a year plus $53m a year in sponsorship. Every 10 days he earns more than the average American does in a lifetime.

In 2017 he was projected to be a billionaire before his 40th birthday.

Earlier this year he was on target to being the highest paid NBA player in history.

So yes, let's take a brief moment and allow our thoughts to be with this poor, oppressed pauper who is under the control of 'slave-masters', "the most underpaid athlete in the history of sports", who would of course be "pretty justified" "if he were to complain about what he is paid".

Alternatively, we can marvel at the hero worship necessary to come out with this crap.
To start off, he isn't complaining about this. I'm not complaining about this. This is just the economics of the sport. He is wildly underpaid in terms of salary as to what he would get in a free market, again assuming his goal was to be paid the highest salary possible, which is pretty clearly not the case.

The NBA salary structure sets a max salary for any one player as a % of the total salary cap. At this point the max salary around 40M depending on the details, and there are a lot of people not nearly as valuable as LeBron was in his prime that make this.

If the teams were free to pay what they want to whom they want, at a minimum we are talking 100M/yr+ and an ownership percentage. Given how during his prime some big market teams with deeeeeeeeeeeeep pockets were desperate to establish themselves, (the Nets were an extreme case in 2010 when they were bought by a Russian Plutocrat and about to move to Brooklyn) even speculating at a ceiling is pointless.

Even if the salary cap were kept in place and just the rules limiting the max salary removed, someone would offer him far more, like 70% of the cap rather than the 35% or so it is limited to now.

That's what I am saying.
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Old 9th January 2019, 07:56 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
False. He's contrasting the attitude of the NFL owners towards the players on their teams (controlling, commandeering), top the attitude the NBA owners have towards the players on their teams (much friendlier, more accommodating). Both sets of owners are mostly white, both sets of players mostly black. Not racist pretty much by definition.
Right.

His point is probably best explained by the fact that NFL players face a far greater risk of serious incapacitating injury than NBA players, yet contracts in the NFL are rarely guaranteed. NFL players are by and large far more replaceable.

From that, it isn't hard to understand how the culture of management and ownership is going be way more callous to the players in the NFL. An NFL team that overly worries about the welfare of players is putting itself at a competitive disadvantage. An NBA team that doesn't care is putting itself at a disadvantage.
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Old 9th January 2019, 02:17 PM   #149
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I just read the entire article and what he is complaining about the most, repeatedly in the article anyways, is how the two different leagues deal with player activism.

Since we are not seeing the entire interview I can only comment on what is in the article.

Quote:
Im so appreciative in our league of our commissioner [Adam Silver], James continued. He doesn't mind us having ... a real feeling and to be able to express that. It doesn't even matter if Adam agrees with what we are saying, he at least wants to hear us out. As long as we are doing it in a very educational, non-violent way, then hes absolutely okay with it.

......

I am very educated about what I believe in and Im not doing it in a violent way, James said. Im not knocking on your door saying, Listen, Im kneeling today and if you dont kneel with me, Ill knock you the f-- out. But you know people go crazy when things are done outside the box. People dont know how to react.
I don't like to throw the word 'racist' around here. I actually don't care what he said one bit, but I find the reactions to it here on the forum very interesting, temper tantrums and all.

Everyone trying to figure out what is racist and what isn't is so counterproductive. Like the "while black" threads - what is the point here?

I don't know if LeBron is racist and I don't care. He may be angry, he may say things that are inflammatory, but how would I know if he's racist or if what he - you know what this is totally stupid.

Let's all be glad all our own words are not hyper-analyzed by the entire world lest we all have a mob of torch-carriers looking for us for being the cretins we all are.

PS - I hate basketball and don't care about LeBron one bit.
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