ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 31st December 2018, 11:17 AM   #1
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,438
Eating school lunch while black

Black teacher in NY school told she’s not allowed to eat ‘whites only’ food in faculty lounge

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/bla...ounge-lawsuit/
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 11:23 AM   #2
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,592
Okay at this point this threads aren't doing any good.

Regardless of how any one of us feels about it nobody can say that we haven't been over this territory or hope that this thread is going to add some new insight into how any of us think.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 11:32 AM   #3
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 5,917
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Black teacher in NY school told she’s not allowed to eat ‘whites only’ food in faculty lounge

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/bla...ounge-lawsuit/
For ***** sake, give it a ******* rest woncha?

Last edited by bluesjnr; 31st December 2018 at 11:35 AM.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 11:42 AM   #4
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,747
Agreed. Best case scenario: another racist has been identified in a nation of hundreds of millions. We're up to like a solid, what, 20 of them? A solid 20.

Worst case scenario: opportunistic person smells some cash via a popular pariah-accusation and files a frivolous suit.

Other scenarios: anything in between.

So let's all shake our heads and be saddened and/or outraged that such people run around free. Maybe clutch our children a little tighter.

Next?
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 12:05 PM   #5
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,919
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay at this point this threads aren't doing any good.

Regardless of how any one of us feels about it nobody can say that we haven't been over this territory or hope that this thread is going to add some new insight into how any of us think.
That's like saying we should stop making bigfoot threads, global warming threads, and the like just because the denialists aren't going to believe us this time.

I'd argue these threads still have utility. It gets the usual group of denialists and apologists to trot out their almost entirely merit-less arguments. It gets others laughing and rolling their eyes at those arguments. Light is a great disinfectant.

We know that racism is still a major problem in the US, both from the statistics and from more personal examples like these threads show the kind of impact it can have on individuals on a daily basis. But only threads like these can draw out the kind of apologist minimization like...

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. Best case scenario: another racist has been identified in a nation of hundreds of millions. We're up to like a solid, what, 20 of them? A solid 20.

Worst case scenario: opportunistic person smells some cash via a popular pariah-accusation and files a frivolous suit.

Other scenarios: anything in between.

So let's all shake our heads and be saddened and/or outraged that such people run around free. Maybe clutch our children a little tighter.

Next?
...that.

It reminds us to be vigilant not just of the skinhead, but the guy trying to sound intellectual telling us how the impact isn't that bad.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 12:14 PM   #6
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 18,547
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Black teacher in NY school told she’s not allowed to eat ‘whites only’ food in faculty lounge

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/12/bla...ounge-lawsuit/
I don't even have to read the link to know that what happened is someone made a tasteless joke. It's not headline, or lawsuit, worthy.


It is, however, thread worthy, because, well, who really cares? It's not like we're doing anything significant here. A waste of time is really our raison d'etre.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 12:43 PM   #7
commandlinegamer
Philosopher
 
commandlinegamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mazes of Menace
Posts: 8,847
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I don't even have to read the link to know that what happened is someone made a tasteless joke. It's not headline, or lawsuit, worthy.


It is, however, thread worthy, because, well, who really cares? It's not like we're doing anything significant here. A waste of time is really our raison d'etre.
Although the article is light on detail, it does indicate that the suit is not down to one single event rather suggesting a pattern of behaviour stretching back some time.

But yes, there's little that simply creating a new thread is achieving here.
__________________
He bade me take any rug in the house.

Last edited by commandlinegamer; 31st December 2018 at 12:44 PM.
commandlinegamer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 12:59 PM   #8
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 17,776
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I don't even have to read the link to know that what happened is someone made a tasteless joke. It's not headline, or lawsuit, worthy.
I disagree. This whole, "It was a tasteless joke" excuse is ********. Jokes, tasteless or not, are supposed to be funny. This isn't funny. It's bullying. It's not funny just because the bully calls it a joke.

Especially when in the context of a job, it is completely unacceptable. There is no reason that someone doing their job has to put up with that nonsense.

It's absolutely lawsuit worthy.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Gidget, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 01:03 PM   #9
baron
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
Christ almighty, that POS site uses a solid 63% of my CPU!
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 01:24 PM   #10
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
These
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 01:27 PM   #11
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,747
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
These
*squints at horizon and nods knowingly*
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 02:09 PM   #12
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
mgidm86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,200
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
That's like saying we should stop making bigfoot threads, global warming threads, and the like just because the denialists aren't going to believe us this time.

I'd argue these threads still have utility. It gets the usual group of denialists and apologists to trot out their almost entirely merit-less arguments. It gets others laughing and rolling their eyes at those arguments. Light is a great disinfectant.

We know that racism is still a major problem in the US, both from the statistics and from more personal examples like these threads show the kind of impact it can have on individuals on a daily basis. But only threads like these can draw out the kind of apologist minimization like...



...that.

It reminds us to be vigilant not just of the skinhead, but the guy trying to sound intellectual telling us how the impact isn't that bad.
You say "apologist minimization", I say "keeping it in perspective", let's call the whole thing off.

The threads are pointless.
__________________
Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 03:39 PM   #13
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 18,547
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I disagree. This whole, "It was a tasteless joke" excuse is ********. Jokes, tasteless or not, are supposed to be funny. This isn't funny. It's bullying. It's not funny just because the bully calls it a joke.

Especially when in the context of a job, it is completely unacceptable. There is no reason that someone doing their job has to put up with that nonsense.

It's absolutely lawsuit worthy.
Maybe "tasteless" isn't a strong enough word to signal disapproval. I certainly didn't intend "tasteless" to excuse the behavior. I meant to imply that the attempt at humor was in bad taste. I also agree that this sort of "joke" is, or is in some cases, bullying. It has always bugged me when people who insult other people hide behind humor as if it were a shield. What is it that they are thinking? "It's ok that I insulted him or harassed him, because I also laughed at him and tried to get others to laugh at him!" No, there's no excuse there.

I subsequently read the linked article. The fact that it was part of a pattern is what might make it lawsuit worthy. I say "might" because we don't know enough about what went on. That's the point of trials, after all, to present both sides of the argument and let some hopefully neutral observers on the jury decided whether one party or the other was aggrieved.


What was in my head when I wrote my first reply was that there is literally no one in the United States who thinks there is such a thing as "whites only" food, or who thinks that one can designate any workplace food as "whites only". Therefore, they must have been joking. And, if it were a single joke, I would say that it was tasteless, but not lawsuit worthy. On the other hand, the plaintiff alleges a pattern of behavior where this sort of "joke" occurs pretty regularly. If she can convince a jury that this sort of thing was a pattern of behavior, and that management failed to take adequate action when they became aware of it, she'll get the damages awarded, and that's not a bad thing.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 04:01 PM   #14
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 72,247
Wrong thread title, not the same as this theme of threads.

A better title: Black teacher sues NY school district after years of racial discrimination

Maybe the OP can get a mod to change it if they really want a discussion.


Oh, and she wasn't told not to eat in the lounge, she was allegedly told she wasn't welcome to the communal peanuts someone had brought.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 31st December 2018 at 04:04 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 04:11 PM   #15
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
*squints at horizon and nods knowingly*
Was going to push every one of these threads to the top of the page with "these" "are" "getting" "########" "annoying" "I" "can" "make" "a" "cool" "pattern" "on" "the" "page"......

But then did the first one and remembered there is a 60 second delay between posting, so wouldn't work
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 04:12 PM   #16
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 43,187
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
You say "apologist minimization", I say "keeping it in perspective", let's call the whole thing off.

The threads are pointless.
Yes, I can see how some people don’t want to see blatant racist acts by white people in the US exposed to the light of day.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 05:07 PM   #17
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes, I can see how some people don’t want to see blatant racist acts by white people in the US exposed to the light of day.
You could go to a happy compromise and maybe start a thread called.

"Place to put examples of what I consider blatant racist acts by white US people. What do you think?"

as kind of a central repository, like the mass shootings thread.

Just saying like
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 31st December 2018 at 05:15 PM.
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 08:09 PM   #18
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 39,895
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay at this point this threads aren't doing any good.

Regardless of how any one of us feels about it nobody can say that we haven't been over this territory or hope that this thread is going to add some new insight into how any of us think.
I guess there's one thing worse than having to read about everyday racism.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 08:19 PM   #19
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,630
Originally Posted by commandlinegamer View Post
Although the article is light on detail, it does indicate that the suit is not down to one single event rather suggesting a pattern of behaviour stretching back some time.

But yes, there's little that simply creating a new thread is achieving here.
An important aspect of the story IMO is that the victim hesitated to complain because of fear it would lead to expanded mistreatment by the administration. A fear that turned out to be valid, unfortunately. One of the most depressing things about structural prejudice is that often there's no hope of justice, and the victims just choose to put up with it.

Related article: [Why report injustice when being justly treated is unimaginable?] The article's context is sexual misconduct, but addressing racial and other mistreatment has similar challenges.



I agree that examples have value. There's a problem of denial of the scope of racism, which possibly can be addressed as examples present themselves.
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 08:20 PM   #20
blutoski
Penultimate Amazing
 
blutoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,630
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes, I can see how some people don’t want to see blatant racist acts by white people in the US exposed to the light of day.
There's a theory that Bird Box is an allegory for this.

"Just keep the blindfold on, America."
__________________
"Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." - Terry Pratchett
blutoski is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 31st December 2018, 08:36 PM   #21
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 40,028
Here's what i see as the upside.... people are getting uncomfortable, masked as bored or fed-up.

Good. People who are racist, tilt towards racist sympathies, ignore racism and hope it will go away, run interference for racists because they have other politics in common or are in that ********** "post-racism" I don't see skin color lie.... Deserve To Feel Uncomfortable.

What's the downside? We're not going to claim that this is another "Don't Call Them Deplorables; It'll Come Back to Bite You in the Ass/Arse", are we? Any of the interference runners here willing to claim that they've been converted to being more racist* because the pain-in-the-ass liberal/prog wing is picking on them. Does racism really get a sympathy vote.

*Save your straw. We have at least one such member.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 09:23 AM   #22
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,236
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Here's what i see as the upside.... people are getting uncomfortable, masked as bored or fed-up.

That's the important part that doesn't get addressed enough. All these "Well, do we have to hear about this all the time?" and "There's probably a better explanation for this than a pat accusation of bigotry," minimizers and denialists are not really feeling the "outrage fatigue" that they claim. Nor do they appear to truly believe that things are as exaggerated as they assert so stridently. It's quite clear that this is all about being made uncomfortable, and even embarrassed, by how widespread the problem is, how pervasive it is, and most tellingly, how increasingly difficult it is to ignore.

And they so desperately want to ignore it, to pretend it doesn't exist, to play like everything is sunshine and flowers and rainbow-puking unicorns. Because that makes them more comfortable, lets them stay in their happy little oblivious world and not have to make the hard choices.

Because, when confronted with the problem of pervasive cultural racism, sexism, LGBTQ-phobia, and so on, then they have to make a choice. They have to confront the issue and choose a side, which means having to deal with the consequences of that choice. Whatever side they choose, they will have to endure the unpleasant fallout that inevitably results.

Come down on the side of the bigots, they brand themselves as bigots, and have to deal with being on the wrong side of history and the negative consequences for being so; imposed by the parts of their society that are evolving, growing, maturing, and leaving behind the prejudices and fears of the past, part of which is composed of their own children and grandchildren.

Come down on the side of compassion and empathy and acceptance, and they will suffer the approbation, ridicule, and wrath of the old guard, the bigots, many of whom will be their peers and their relatives, and many of whom still wield a good deal of social and political power.

Even refusing to clearly choose a side, asserting some sort of shiftless neutrality, will not be a safe choice, as they will be branded cowards by both sides, accepted by neither. Worse, their silence acquiesces to whatever the dominant trend happens to be at the moment, whether that's bigotry or acceptance, regardless of how it fits in with their own personal worldview at the moment. So even that refusal has unavoidable negative consequences.

Better, they feel, to try and make it all go away, deny it exists, and live in an increasingly-impossible fantasy world where they can throw around words and phrases like "post-racial", "post-sexist", "it's just a phase/fad", "liberal overreach", "political correctness gone mad", and "trendy bisexual/transgender/queer" as if they actually mean something real, as if they characterize anything in the real world, instead of just being attempts at escapist fantasy and reality-avoidance.

That is why they complain about these Living While Black threads and Living While LGBTQ threads. Because they are uncomfortable being confronted with their choices, and forced to accept and acknowledge the consequences of said choices openly and publicly.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams
"The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf
"Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon

Last edited by luchog; 1st January 2019 at 09:27 AM.
luchog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 09:28 AM   #23
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,236
Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
There's a theory that Bird Box is an allegory for this.

"Just keep the blindfold on, America."

I read that article. While it was intended in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek manner, there's a certain unfortunate truth to it.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams
"The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf
"Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon
luchog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 09:56 AM   #24
p0lka
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,259
Quote:
She described how she was completely ignored by her colleagues after being in a serious car accident in 2017
from here
https://www.newsweek.com/black-teach...ct-new-1275134

she should have left that one out, sounds a bit needy.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 10:26 AM   #25
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 26,251
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post


What was in my head when I wrote my first reply was that there is literally no one in the United States who thinks there is such a thing as "whites only" food, or who thinks that one can designate any workplace food as "whites only". Therefore, they must have been joking.
There is no shortage of hard-core racists in the US who are stupid enough, small-minded enough, and unembarassedly bigoted enough to say those exact things. These are people who think the disenfranchisement of blacks is not just desirable But also necessary to save the Republic. These are people who would gladly support a Consitutional amendment to limit Supreme Court justices to white folks only.

Now we can debate how many of them are walking around. I’d say between 3% and 20% of the population. I’d need to see some pretty compelling evidence to convince me that the number was smaller than that.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 10:52 AM   #26
baron
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,627
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What was in my head when I wrote my first reply was that there is literally no one in the United States who thinks there is such a thing as "whites only" food, or who thinks that one can designate any workplace food as "whites only".
Based on the information, clearly a joke.

Quote:
For example, she says she once asked a senior white colleague whether food in the English teacher’s staff lounge was for sharing, to which he responded it was “for whites only,” according to court documents.
Other aspects of her account are suspicious:

Quote:
And in another racially charged incident, she alleges in the court documents that she was given only a bottle of hand sanitizer as a secret Santa present—for which the spending limit was $50—because her co-workers thought she was “dirty.”
Where did this information come from? Her co-workers 'thought she was dirty'? What, she received this gift and everybody chorused, "That's because you're dirty, and you're dirty because you're black!"? Does she expect anybody to believe this? Without the facts we have no idea what she received this present. In past secret Santas I received a blow-up doll and a photo of a horse with a hat on. My friend, a female, received a black rubber cock. We missed a chance to play the victim there, that's for sure, and turn some silly jokes into hard cash.
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 11:04 AM   #27
Olmstead
Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 49
Why does it even matter whether it's a joke? I think the act of making such jokes is racist in itself and creates a very hostile work environment.
Olmstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 11:56 AM   #28
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 18,547
Originally Posted by Olmstead View Post
Why does it even matter whether it's a joke? I think the act of making such jokes is racist in itself and creates a very hostile work environment.
There are a couple of different sorts of "jokes" of this nature.

In one form, a person tells a joke to make a person laugh. To share some joy. To have some fun with them in a shared experience. I like you and so I share some humor because that is what friends do. It is a good thing to joke with people.


In another form, a person jokes about someone in order to make other people laugh at that person. You say something hurtful, on purpose, so that other people can enjoy ridiculing another. That's the "bullying" form of the joke. It is a bad thing to do this sort of joke.


Then, you get into all sorts of subtle hybrids of those forms. There's the case where you think that you are doing the first sort of joke, the good kind, but it happens to be a topic that the recipient of the joke is very sensitive about it. You mean no offense at all, and many people wouldn't take offense, but this particular person didn't find it funny in the least. That's a good time to apologize, because you meant no harm, but you accidentally did harm anyway.

Another case is when you clearly intend to be the second sort, i.e. ridiculing someone, and you think that your audience will appreciate it. Perhaps the target of the "joke" has put up with this sort of thing before. This time, though, the target is offended, and objects, at which point you claim that your joke was the first sort. i.e., you say "Hey, c'mon. I was only joking!"

A third case involves a comment that is clearly meant as the first sort, a moment of shared levity, but the person is sensitive to everything and is overly dramatic. Suddenly this person gets all bent out of shape about something that the vast majority of people would find funny, and it's not because of some special circumstance, like telling a dog joke to someone whose dog died the day before, unbeknownst to the joke tell, but just because the person to whom the joke was told is a hypersensitive pain in the neck who has practiced the art of personal offense and has it down to a T.

A very confusing problem occurs when certain jokes are ok for one person to make, but not another. Your best friend makes fun of a speech defect, and you laugh because it's a shared experience for years. A second person overhears and also makes fun of the speech defect. Not cool. The best known example of this sort of problem is the frequently observed situation where a black comedian can use the N word, but for a white comedian it can be a career ending mistake. It happens, and it actually makes sense, but a lot of people don't understand it, and end up in hot water.


So, to summarize, what matters is not whether it was a joke so much as whether it was a joke delivered with good intentions, or one delivered with bad intentions. At reading the OP, I assumed it was a well intentioned joke, just because it clearly wasn't intended to be taken seriously, and if it was an intentionally hurtful thing, it's a really dangerous path to travel. Even if you hated the person, using race-based humor to make them mad would be really, really, bad career move.

After reading the actual article, and seeing that it was part of a pattern, I'm less certain. I'm still confident that it was a joke, but it seems that this person had a history of conflict at her workplace, and had actually complained about it. That makes me more suspicious that she would be the target of deliberately hurtful attempts at humor.

Last edited by Meadmaker; 1st January 2019 at 11:57 AM.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 02:07 PM   #29
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20,009
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I don't even have to read the link to know that what happened is someone made a tasteless joke. It's not headline, or lawsuit, worthy.


It is, however, thread worthy, because, well, who really cares? It's not like we're doing anything significant here. A waste of time is really our raison d'etre.
Denial? Unfortunately typical of apologists for discrimination.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 02:10 PM   #30
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 20,009
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Here's what i see as the upside.... people are getting uncomfortable, masked as bored or fed-up.

Good. People who are racist, tilt towards racist sympathies, ignore racism and hope it will go away, run interference for racists because they have other politics in common or are in that ********** "post-racism" I don't see skin color lie.... Deserve To Feel Uncomfortable.

What's the downside? We're not going to claim that this is another "Don't Call Them Deplorables; It'll Come Back to Bite You in the Ass/Arse", are we? Any of the interference runners here willing to claim that they've been converted to being more racist* because the pain-in-the-ass liberal/prog wing is picking on them. Does racism really get a sympathy vote.

*Save your straw. We have at least one such member.
Well said. The degree of denialism indicates the racists and their apologists are feeling uncomfortable.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 07:07 PM   #31
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,919
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
You say "apologist minimization", I say "keeping it in perspective", let's call the whole thing off.

The threads are pointless.
What you say is factually, objectively nonsense.

Let me clue you into something that these threads should have informed you of, but never quite stated outright; there are more than 20 vile racists in the US.

If you want to call it off, then stop reading and posting in these threads. Simple. You don't have to read these if they pain you so.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st January 2019, 11:37 PM   #32
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
Let me give you a clue as to why some of us find it annoying having to trawl through these US racism threads

internationalskeptics dot com
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:19 AM   #33
banquetbear
Graduate Poster
 
banquetbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,512
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Let me give you a clue as to why some of us find it annoying having to trawl through these US racism threads

internationalskeptics dot com
...as a fellow kiwi I'm good with the US racism threads. If you want to start some NZ racism threads I don't think anyone will object.
banquetbear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:21 AM   #34
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 40,028
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Let me give you a clue as to why some of us find it annoying having to trawl through these US racism threads

internationalskeptics dot com
Let me give you a clue why some of us don't both to trawl through threads that don't interest us.

They are non-productive, they achieve nothing and they are on topics that don't interest us. That, of course, is 100% subjective but some people like some stuff and other people like other stuff. We scroll past them. I haven't been in a Religion/Philosophy thread in years, nor the evergreen Amanda Knox and "Justice" threads. I've had no complaints from any of the participants in those threads. They don't care. I don't care. Seems like we've achieved a version of nirvana.

What I don't do is drop in every now and then and say, "Yecch, these threads are stupid!" Of course, there would be no point in doing that as I don't think either side is right or wrong... unlike most of the complainers in the X while black threads, who all tend to the reactionary side.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:30 AM   #35
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Let me give you a clue why some of us don't both to trawl through threads that don't interest us.

They are non-productive, they achieve nothing and they are on topics that don't interest us. That, of course, is 100% subjective but some people like some stuff and other people like other stuff. We scroll past them. I haven't been in a Religion/Philosophy thread in years, nor the evergreen Amanda Knox and "Justice" threads. I've had no complaints from any of the participants in those threads. They don't care. I don't care. Seems like we've achieved a version of nirvana.

What I don't do is drop in every now and then and say, "Yecch, these threads are stupid!" Of course, there would be no point in doing that as I don't think either side is right or wrong... unlike most of the complainers in the X while black threads, who all tend to the reactionary side.
The issue is no one puts "US" in them, so it is hard to tell which are just the SPAM ones.
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:31 AM   #36
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
I have offered a simple solution to make everything easier three times now and it keeps being ignored
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:35 AM   #37
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
...as a fellow kiwi I'm good with the US racism threads. If you want to start some NZ racism threads I don't think anyone will object.
I agree NZ racism threads would be fine.

Just not inundating the board with them
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:43 AM   #38
Shepherd
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Let me give you a clue as to why some of us find it annoying having to trawl through these US racism threads

internationalskeptics dot com
Let me give a clue as to why some others of us find it annoying having to trawl through these US "racism" threads.

internationalskeptics dot com
Shepherd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:46 AM   #39
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,888
Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
Let me give a clue as to why some others of us find it annoying having to trawl through these US "racism" threads.

internationalskeptics dot com
Was going to do the same thread straight after with a "2nd" clue but thought me doing two was overkill
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd January 2019, 12:48 AM   #40
banquetbear
Graduate Poster
 
banquetbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,512
Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
Let me give a clue as to why some others of us find it annoying having to trawl through these US "racism" threads.

internationalskeptics dot com
...let me give you a clue why people talk about Social Issues and Current Events in a forum called Social Issues and Current Events.

This forum is here for us to talk about Social Issues and Current Events.
banquetbear is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:16 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.