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Old 31st December 2018, 11:33 AM   #1
deadrose
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Deejaying while black

A black deejay was attacked and beaten by a group of skinheads, apparently for not playing their heavy metal request fast enough. It took place in Lynnwood, Washington State, in early December.

Every year in early December, a group of skinheads gather on nearby Whidbey Island to commemorate the death of Robert Jay Matthews in 1988, in a shootout with FBI agents.

Eight people were arrested, seven men and one woman. One was a local, known to police as a white supremacist, and the other seven had tattoos and clothing that identified them as such.

The FBI is investigating it as a federal hate crime.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...nnwood-tavern/
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Old 31st December 2018, 11:55 AM   #2
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Surely to god nobody can claim this one isn't racist really.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:06 PM   #3
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Couldn't believe that any skinheads would want to listen to heavy metal, so I checked it out and from a linked article in the linked article, by the same author:

Originally Posted by Eric Lacitis
[...] The DJ had been playing tunes ranging from rhythm and blues to Top 40, and even Phil Collins, he said, when someone in the group told him to play “hard stuff,” meaning heavy metal.

The DJ said fine, and he showed the man he had cued Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath on his Mac computer holding 9,000 tunes. That wasn’t fast enough for the man, the DJ said.

“What, they couldn’t wait a minute and a half, two minutes? That’s all they had to wait to get to their music?” the DJ said. “For that they beat my ass, and called me a (N-word)?” [...]

So this seems to be a terrible misunderstanding where the DJ thought "hard stuff" meant Heavy Metal meant Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath, with the unavoidable consequences...

I have only a very vague idea about what these "while [skin color]" threads are about and only clicked on this one because of the author. But yeah, no skinheads listen to heavy metal, that's kind of a certainty.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:15 PM   #4
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It's actually getting to be a problem... https://psmag.com/social-justice/how...iltrated-metal
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:15 PM   #5
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Skinheads aren't human. They are vermin. Call pest control for this one. Or I'll volunteer.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:19 PM   #6
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That article has some problems of its own (I don't think metalheads want to claim Marilyn Manson any more than the goths do) but a quick Google will show up several more.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:24 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
It's actually getting to be a problem... https://psmag.com/social-justice/how...iltrated-metal

Far from all "white power types" are skinheads and far from all skinheads are "white power types". Skinhead "culture" - both the original one and the white-power infiltrated kind - and heavy metal are pretty antagonistic.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Couldn't believe that any skinheads would want to listen to heavy metal, so I checked it out and from a linked article in the linked article, by the same author:


So this seems to be a terrible misunderstanding where the DJ thought "hard stuff" meant Heavy Metal meant Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath, with the unavoidable consequences...
Far be it for me to opine on the "proper" names for various musical genres. But that said, I live in a part of the US where skinheads were (are?) a thing, not all that far from Lynnwood, and I have the impression that skinheads and metal do indeed mix. There are many articles I can cite to support my contention, such as How White Supremacists Infiltrated Metal.

As for this part, that's quite a sociopathic outlook on things.

add: not only ninja'ed, but the same article!
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Surely to god nobody can claim this one isn't racist really.
Given it has got to the point where these threads have become SPAM I'd be surprised if many people cared long enough before the inevitable next dump of them.
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Old 31st December 2018, 12:54 PM   #10
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I wouldn't expect this level of racism from 'self-professed neo-Nazi skinheads'.

No, wait...

Last edited by baron; 31st December 2018 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 31st December 2018, 01:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Surely to god nobody can claim this one isn't racist really.
Don't bet on it.
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Old 31st December 2018, 02:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I wouldn't expect this level of racism from 'self-professed neo-Nazi skinheads'.

No, wait...
Precisely. Another dumb "while-black" thread. Hey I see another one today.

"Hey ISF! Skinheads can be racist!" Next.
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:40 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I have the impression that skinheads and metal do indeed mix.

Sure you have. Because looking at all the proles who aren't into your sophisticated artsy latin jazz or whatever it is, the impression has to get a bit blurry. You know what the original skinheads were into, right?

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Old 31st December 2018, 04:48 PM   #14
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People are missing the obvious here. The DJ was playing Phil Collins. Clear justification for a serious beating.
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
People are missing the obvious here. The DJ was playing Phil Collins. Clear justification for a serious beating.

I considered that as well, but it doesn't seem to fit the reported timeline.
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Old 31st December 2018, 08:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Sure you have. Because looking at all the proles who aren't into your sophisticated artsy latin jazz or whatever it is, the impression has to get a bit blurry. You know what the original skinheads were into, right?
Thank you for noticing my sophisticated taste!

Here's a blurb about "hardcore skinheads". It says they're into heavy metal. Apparently there are a lot of people who have formed the same impression as I have, misguided though we may be.
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Old 31st December 2018, 09:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Thank you for noticing my sophisticated taste!

Here's a blurb about "hardcore skinheads". It says they're into heavy metal. Apparently there are a lot of people who have formed the same impression as I have, misguided though we may be.

Dude, this is so silly. Did you even read the first sentence of you wikipedia dump?

Originally Posted by wikipedia
Hardcore skinheads are skinheads who mainly associate with hardcore and sometimes heavy metal instead of Oi!, ska, soul or other music genres associated with the skinhead subculture.

So this article about mythical "Hardcore Skinheads" who listen to heavy metal (I don't even want to comment on how wrong that is, given you have no clue about what is meant by "hardcore" here), also available in Italian, Portuguese and Russian, no other languages, just says the same that I did. Actually the whole article is about an exception from the rule, and I guess it took you some time to find as an "argument".

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Old 31st December 2018, 11:21 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Dude, this is so silly. Did you even read the first sentence of you wikipedia dump?
Yes, I did. While the article implies that "hardcore skinheads" generally listen to genres other than metal, they listen to enough metal to warrant mention, at least according to the writer.

Quote:
So this article about mythical "Hardcore Skinheads" who listen to heavy metal (I don't even want to comment on how wrong that is, given you have no clue about what is meant by "hardcore" here)
Maybe you're right that they're mythical. I readily admit that I lack domain knowledge. Still, it's interesting there are so many articles that connect skinheads and metal.

Quote:
also available in Italian, Portuguese and Russian, no other languages
I don't see what this has to do with the price of bread.

Quote:
...I guess it took you some time to find as an "argument".
Argument? I'm sharing observations, not making an argument. Along those lines, here's another observation: Skinhead Metal Music, listing what I assume are skinhead metal bands.
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Old 1st January 2019, 07:32 AM   #19
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I know at least this much CE: There is music that people categorize as heavy metal, and there are people who people categorize as skinheads who listen to, and perform, said music. I've provided several citations proving this fact.

Given that reality, let's revisit the news story:

Originally Posted by Seattle Times
The Snohomish County Sheriff’s Office and the FBI have opened a joint hate-crimes investigation into the arrests of eight “self-professed” neo-Nazi skinheads accused of assaulting an African-American man at a Lynnwood tavern Saturday night ...
According to witnesses and statements from the victim in the Lynnwood attack, the African-American DJ was playing tunes ranging from rhythm and blues to Top 40 when someone in the group told him to play “hard stuff,” meaning heavy metal.
It's entirely possible that the witnesses, victim, and/or reporter, like me, lack sufficient domain knowledge to identify the musical sub-genres "correctly". (It's unlikely that "hard stuff" meant old Genesis tunes, but I suppose we shouldn't rule that out. )

It's also possible these people lack a deep understanding of skinhead history -- an understanding that you imply you possess with your diversionary questions. And lacking that historical awareness, they failed to correct the self-identification of the perps, and/or otherwise failed to inform readers about skinhead sub-demographics.

Either way, surely we can agree that "heavy metal" need not be the number one preference for "skinheads" in order for it to be listened to, and even performed, by some skinheads, as you seem to imply. That's so inane that I'm operating under the assumption that I misread you.

Another (non exclusive) possibility is that an anonymous persona with a well-deserved reputation for operating on a fact-free basis is eager to win internet debate points. (I too am an anonymous persona eager to win internet debate points. Don't take it too hard.)
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Old 1st January 2019, 09:51 AM   #20
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Because the most important take-away from this incident is that people are incorrectly associating subcultures and musical genres.
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Old 1st January 2019, 10:12 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Because the most important take-away from this incident is that people are incorrectly associating subcultures and musical genres.
No kidding.

***
All one long misdirect by resident Putin apologists. The operant term in the OP article is neo-Nazi, not skinhead. The dudettes celebrating "Martyr Day" have a record label. Here ya go, Nazi skinhead heavy metal.

Perhaps some post insurance is in order? In case y'all done get totaled agin.
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Old 1st January 2019, 10:57 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Because the most important take-away from this incident is that people are incorrectly associating subcultures and musical genres.
Indeed, that diversion was masking the surprising news that neo-Nazi skin-heads indulge in racist behaviour.
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Old 1st January 2019, 11:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post

LOL. Please go and tell them to their face that they are playing heavy metal. And watch what happens.
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Old 1st January 2019, 12:58 PM   #24
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CE: The skins over here have very little tie-in with skinheads from other countries or eras, I think. They wouldn't listen to ska under any conditions, that's "mud people music"; and it's only recently they've started adopting the classic looks like turned-up jeans and Fred Perry shirts.

They've (white supremacists in general, not just skins) been shoving their way into Celtic punk, folk metal, heathen and pagan groups, and anything else they find that seems sufficiently white and/or Northern European. That includes pretty much any music that lets them get aggro, especially punk and metal.

It's a real pain for those of us who aren't racist and love any of those things.
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Old 1st January 2019, 02:21 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
CE: The skins over here have very little tie-in with skinheads from other countries or eras, I think. They wouldn't listen to ska under any conditions, that's "mud people music"; and it's only recently they've started adopting the classic looks like turned-up jeans and Fred Perry shirts.

They've (white supremacists in general, not just skins) been shoving their way into Celtic punk, folk metal, heathen and pagan groups, and anything else they find that seems sufficiently white and/or Northern European. That includes pretty much any music that lets them get aggro, especially punk and metal.

It's a real pain for those of us who aren't racist and love any of those things.

I hope you don't really think you have to tell me that. Of course racists have infiltrated more or less successfully all kinds of subcultures.

My post was on your specific story which sounded like skinheads had demanded heavy metal music from the DJ. Which I found highly unlikely, went and checked, and found that these were indeed the DJ's words. He thought they meant heavy metal when they asked for "hard stuff", and he offered them Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath (not even Burzum or Absurd). So my suspicion was proven at that point, which I told you lot.

The song that Hlafordlaes cutely thought was heavy metal couldn't be much further away from it, inside aggressive music genres that is. I hope I don't have to tell you this.

Apropos further away, I won't make the mistake again to click on any of those "while something" threads which seem to be part of some bizarre giant troll and counter-troll operation about some question like ... is there racism? Even if it gets started by you.

Now good luck that it will turn out fulfilling the purpose you stared it for.
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Old 1st January 2019, 02:30 PM   #26
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So this thread about some people beating up a DJ for not playing what they wanted to hear (at least not quick enough) quickly turns into a discussion about what kind of music "skinheads" prefer.

Well ....

Hans
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Old 1st January 2019, 02:47 PM   #27
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Yeah, no worries, CE. This thread was mostly to see if the racism deniers and excusers would continue denying and excusing. I have the data I sought.
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Old 1st January 2019, 02:54 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
So this thread about some people beating up a DJ for not playing what they wanted to hear (at least not quick enough) quickly turns into a discussion about what kind of music "skinheads" prefer.

Well ....

Hans

So what, now it's about a current event AND a social issue. Fits the subforum perfectly. In case you're interested in the topic you obviously know nothing about, here's the standard book. I know quite a bit about it because I'm very interested in Jamaican music, especially Ska and early Reggae, and how it came to Europe. And in history of youth cultures in general.
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:15 PM   #29
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The original skinhead movement in the UK was very multicultural, all about the music and the individuality. It went a bit down hill from then on. Today there aren't really any skins left in England.
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
The original skinhead movement in the UK was very multicultural, all about the music and the individuality. It went a bit down hill from then on. Today there aren't really any skins left in England.

You just have to look for them a little harder.
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:46 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You just have to look for them a little harder.
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I saw Bad Manners live around '88 or '89, the best gig I've ever been to. The next day I was black and blue. They did a couple of tracks with 'Skinhead' in the title but that's about as far as their involvement with the original skinhead movement goes.
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Old 1st January 2019, 03:53 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
They did a couple of tracks with 'Skinhead' in the title but that's about as far as their involvement with the original skinhead movement goes.

That doesn't matter for the audience you can see in the video (which is why I chose it despite the terrible sound quality). I knew immediately where to look to find you some UK skins in 2018. A Bad Manners gig.
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Old 1st January 2019, 04:09 PM   #33
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I never was into Bad Manners. I guess a lot of their humour gets lost for non-native speakers. But I have been at least a dozen times to gigs of one of my favorite live bands which also have a large skinhead following. And this video is just too fitting to not play it. "Prejudice" by Mr. Review from the Netherlands, and yes, in the beginning he screams "Nazis out" - in German.

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Old 1st January 2019, 04:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
That doesn't matter for the audience you can see in the video (which is why I chose it despite the terrible sound quality). I knew immediately where to look to find you some UK skins in 2018. A Bad Manners gig.
Trust me, they're not skinheads A large proportion of guys in the UK shave their heads for purely aesthetic / convenience reasons. You'll find 'skins' in roughly that proportion, or greater, everywhere you look. In the 80s, if you shaved your head you were a skinhead. Now, everybody does it.
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Old 1st January 2019, 04:31 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Trust me, they're not skinheads

I don't have to trust you. I know better. And you do as well.

No biggie, you didn't claim that there are NO skins left in the UK, and I didn't claim that you can still find them at every corner like in '69.
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Old 1st January 2019, 04:33 PM   #36
baron
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I don't have to trust you. I know better. And you do as well.
OK, don't trust me then. But they're not skinheads.
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Old 1st January 2019, 04:35 PM   #37
Childlike Empress
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
OK, don't trust me then. But they're not skinheads.

They are.
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Old 1st January 2019, 06:05 PM   #38
deadrose
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And just to explain how I know the difference between modern skins and older groups, I give you a photo of me from 1979. I'm the one in the middle, if it's not obvious.



Now I'm going to go cuddle my Symarip vinyl and feel very old.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 03:31 AM   #39
baron
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
They are.
OK then, identify just one of them and explain why you say he / she is a skinhead. Because there are no skinheads in that video, any more than there were skinheads in the 1800-strong crowd when I saw Bad Manners.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 06:56 AM   #40
uke2se
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Precisely. Another dumb "while-black" thread. Hey I see another one today.

"Hey ISF! Skinheads can be racist!" Next.
So it's the precence of the thread itself that you are objecting to and not whether or not the incident is a racist incident?

Might I suggest you use the forum function to ignore threads you're disinterested in so that you don't feel obliged to inform the rest of us every time?
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