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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 14th February 2017, 11:32 AM   #2281
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Lock him up.
I agree with locking up Roy Blunt!

:9
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:43 AM   #2282
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I agree with locking up Roy Blunt!

:9
Why?
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:54 AM   #2283
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
When you have something contrutctive to offer to combat Trump, other then snark and despair, let me know.
I'm very, very open to suggestions. I do donate money, but war chest wasn't the problem last time.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:55 AM   #2284
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Let's not forget Warren G Harding....
Harding was much better at covering it all up.

I wonder how Twitter would have worked out for him.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:57 AM   #2285
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What is ironic is that this "Trump is invincible" attitude some here have does nothing but help Trump.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:03 PM   #2286
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
And yet his silly bag of tricks has gotten him into the Oval Office. I guess used car salesmen are all the rage now.
Used car salesmen manage to sell crap cars for way over the going price for private sales, and buy much cheaper, as they always have.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:05 PM   #2287
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is ironic is that this "Trump is invincible" attitude some here have does nothing but help Trump.
This is a major part of why I'm trying to organize public spectacles with elements of satire and irony. The idea of a monolithic and unassailable foe works to erode enthusiasm towards organizing to resist. Making the opponent into an object of ridicule and derision helps work against that.

SNL is a prime example of it and the surge in ratings shows that there's a lot of receptivity to the idea.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:09 PM   #2288
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
The good news might be that Trump hasn't done that much yet: President Trump Has Done Almost Nothing
Quote:
So far, Trump has behaved exactly like he has throughout his previous career: He has generated intense attention and sold himself as a man of action while doing little other than promote an image of himself as someone who gets things done.

Very true. A lot of people on the East Coast remember well another of Trump's boasts:
Quote:
“Atlantic City is going to be a truly great place."
We know how that turned out.

Quote:
The city has a $100 million gap in its budget and tax appeals by at least five casino properties could dig that hole even deeper. Atlantic City’s property values have dropped by two-thirds in the last five years, its spending has increased, and millions in debt payments are coming due. The financial crisis in the resort town has led to a loss of faith by Wall Street, with major downgrades in the city’s bond ratings in recent months over fears the place could ultimately go broke. Link
With this kind of track record it is hard for me to understand how anyone can look at this man and not have, at minimum, some serious concerns.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:14 PM   #2289
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Don't forget when he was going to build an East Coast Studio City on the Upper West Side. Ed Koch laughed at him in front of the media every day over it.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:15 PM   #2290
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
This is a major part of why I'm trying to organize public spectacles with elements of satire and irony. The idea of a monolithic and unassailable foe works to erode enthusiasm towards organizing to resist. Making the opponent into an object of ridicule and derision helps work against that.

SNL is a prime example of it and the surge in ratings shows that there's a lot of receptivity to the idea.
One poster here,whom I will not name because I don't want to make this personal, has gone the whole hog and is predicting Trump being able to trash the Constiution and become a Hitler like despot.
One mistake he makes is the assumption that the GOP Congress and Trump are buddy buddy, when There are already signs that cracks are occurring. A great many in the GOp regard Trump as a RINO, someone with no loyalty to the party who managed a hostile takeover. Right now they hope they can use him to get their legislatation passed, but that will not last.
And Trump is showing himself to be more incompetent every day. A lot of the swing voters who voted for Trump all already having "Buyer's Regret".
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:22 PM   #2291
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Trump gets things done. Korean missile launch? He doesn't hesitate; he and his team of winners conduct foreign policy right there in the middle of a dining room. Effective and transparent.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:22 PM   #2292
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SOmone just joked that Trump is off to the worst start of any administration in history except for William Henry Harrison...who died after 31 days in office.
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Old 14th February 2017, 12:27 PM   #2293
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SOmone just joked that Trump is off to the worst start of any administration in history except for William Henry Harrison...who died after 31 days in office.
How were his first 3.5 weeks?
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:06 PM   #2294
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Opinion pieces are routinly linked to as speculation the poster agrees is reasonable, especially when the linked article is clearly opinion. Did someone here present it as something other?
It is my impression that Bob001 presented it as something other than speculation:
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Trump is testing what he can get away with:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.cc51d31381b6
Which is why I commented Because it appeared to me to have presented as something other than pure speculation.
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:14 PM   #2295
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
No, it wasn't. It was clearly what is commonly known as an "analysis" piece, and are common in the media. But I admire your steadfast dedication to skepticism applied to items that are negative towards Trump & his associates. You're posts absolutely overflow with reasonableness.
Hey now - I have steadfast dedication to skepticism applied to items that are negative toward Clinton too. They just haven't really been a focus lately .

And yes, of course my posts overflow with reasonableness. I am an eminently reasonable person.


ETA: Call it selection bias at play here. It's certainly true that the majority of my comments of late have the appearance of being in defense of Trump. But I believe it is just that - appearance.

There's been very little bad argumentation in support of Trump presented (as far as I know there's really only logger)... and there's no need for me to jump in to that dog-pile. There are already many, many people jumping in to identify the errors and bad logic involved there.

There's been very little bad argumentation against Clinton presented of late. That hasn't really been the focus of topics lately. So there haven't really been much in the way of arguments there for me to add commentary to. In fact, Clinton hasn't really been the focus lately, not in the same fashion. What argumentation has been presented about Clinton has focused on the reasons that she lost - what she could have done differently, what influenced and impacted her campaign, and perspectives on why so many people voted against her. I've added my opinions in there, of course.

So all in all, I think it's been more a case of the few topics in which I've participated lately, combined with the general nature of the topics available, as well as the political skew that exists on ISF.

Rest assured, at the end of the day, I'm dedicated to skepticism applied to both positive and negative toward anyone.
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:30 PM   #2296
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OK, in light of today's events, I'm calling it. There will be no "President Tump: Part IV" thread on here, while Trump is still President. Things may go quickly in Part III but he'll be out of office before IV.
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:42 PM   #2297
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I understood that the patting (and the elbow grab that many others employ) is a dominance thing. To dominate someone in a handshake I was taught:
  • Make sure your palm is facing down in a dominant position - so the other person's is forced into the submissive palm-up position
  • Grab the hand firmly and decicisvely
  • Place your second hand on the person to reinforce your dominance - I was taught to go for the elbow but shoulder or double-handing was also acceptable

These days I attempt to do the opposite by providing a single hand angled so that the palm is the upward side of the vertical.
I've seen those "dominance" games in hand-shakes too. It's particularly annoying when you're a female shaking hands with a male. I try to aim for a neutral shake - perfectly vertical and firm but not hard. 3 shakes max. And I will react (and occasionally comment aloud) if other people (particularly men) try to play those dominance games with me.

"You know, I need those bones for my hand to work, please stop trying to break them" works surprisingly well. So does "Please don't grab my shoulder, you don't know me that well", as does "I'd like my hand back now" and "You're not about to kiss my hand are you? What century is this anyway?"
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:45 PM   #2298
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Yep.

but also, again, get ready to fight.
Just fight smarter than in the past. Change tactics.
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:47 PM   #2299
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is ironic is that this "Trump is invincible" attitude some here have does nothing but help Trump.
Who has that attitude? Other than maybe logger, I guess. I'm not arguing, I just genuinely am not perceiving this. Which likely means I'm just missing it somewhere in my skimming of 50+ Pages in Thread #2...
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:50 PM   #2300
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
This is a major part of why I'm trying to organize public spectacles with elements of satire and irony. The idea of a monolithic and unassailable foe works to erode enthusiasm towards organizing to resist. Making the opponent into an object of ridicule and derision helps work against that.

SNL is a prime example of it and the surge in ratings shows that there's a lot of receptivity to the idea.
I think there's a limit to it's effectiveness though. I mean, didn't democrat supporters engage in a lot of that through this election cycle? It didn't work. At some point, mockery and ridicule stops being effective and will turn people off. Especially if it's being met with bluster and ridicule in response (which pretty much describes Trump to a tee). At that point it all becomes a bunch of name calling that people start to tune out.

I really think different tactics are needed for this.
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:53 PM   #2301
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I think there's a limit to it's effectiveness though. I mean, didn't democrat supporters engage in a lot of that through this election cycle? It didn't work. At some point, mockery and ridicule stops being effective and will turn people off. Especially if it's being met with bluster and ridicule in response (which pretty much describes Trump to a tee). At that point it all becomes a bunch of name calling that people start to tune out.

I really think different tactics are needed for this.
Yes. It seems to me that the more Trump pisses off 'liberals' the more his supporters are convinced he is right no matter what he says or does.
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:54 PM   #2302
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
With this kind of track record it is hard for me to understand how anyone can look at this man and not have, at minimum, some serious concerns.
Is there really anyone on ISF who doesn't have serious concerns? Apart from one statistical outlier who seems to be about 7 sds away from mean, anyway

I mean, really... I have serious concerns even if they're not the bombastic and exaggerated kind like "he's going to push the nuke button" and "people are going to start murdering gays in the streets" and "America's going to turn back the clock on civil rights and start lynching black people". I don't have *those* concerns because I find them completely unlikely.

But I have major concerns about the US government being turned into a side-show reality TV show, and about the erosion of our system. I have serious concerns about an ideologically dominated congress doing outright stupid things with little thought for the long-term consequences. And I have a lot of anxiety about an unabashed used-car-salesman engaged in international diplomacy which is NOT a business negotiation ffs.
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Old 14th February 2017, 01:58 PM   #2303
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Yes. It seems to me that the more Trump pisses off 'liberals' the more his supporters are convinced he is right no matter what he says or does.
Mmm... I see what you're saying, but I don't think that's it. I don't think that all that many people are Trump supporters in the first place. I think that a fair number of people aren't convinced that he's right so much as they're convinced that those 'liberals' are wrong. It's a nuance, to be sure, but I think it's an important one. Of course, that's my impression and is entirely subjective.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:02 PM   #2304
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
And yet his silly bag of tricks has gotten him into the Oval Office. I guess used car salesmen are all the rage now.
There are an awful lot of people who buy used cars.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:08 PM   #2305
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Yes. It seems to me that the more Trump pisses off 'liberals' the more his supporters are convinced he is right no matter what he says or does.
Which is why to some extent the best plan is to simply encourage and expose the innate incompetence of the Trump White House. This isn't like Bush II where you felt there were smart, if morally bankrupt, people pulling the strings behind the scenes. This is a 'confederacy of dunces', that still thinks they're making a reality TV show.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:11 PM   #2306
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Mmm... I see what you're saying, but I don't think that's it. I don't think that all that many people are Trump supporters in the first place. I think that a fair number of people aren't convinced that he's right so much as they're convinced that those 'liberals' are wrong. It's a nuance, to be sure, but I think it's an important one. Of course, that's my impression and is entirely subjective.
If you're right, I think it's hugely important. It would explain why Trump's massive personal defects and flawed performance don't hurt him as much as they should. It also provides an opportunity for liberals to gain support by modifying their image to seem more appealing.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:13 PM   #2307
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
There are an awful lot of people who buy used cars.
Yeah, the Trump presidency is more like going into a used car lot looking for a nice sensible daily driver and somehow winding up walking out the proud owner of a microwave oven...
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:17 PM   #2308
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
If you're right, I think it's hugely important. It would explain why Trump's massive personal defects and flawed performance don't hurt him as much as they should. It also provides an opportunity for liberals to gain support by modifying their image to seem more appealing.
There've been a few attempts to address it, and a few threads started on that topic. I think I'm right (of course I do!), but the challenge is in getting people to look at the dynamics objectively

I don't want Trump in the white house. I don't personally think that Clinton would have been good at the job either, but that's my opinion. I definitely don't want Trump to have even a tiny chance of winning a second term... but I also didn't think he had even a tiny chance of winning a first term. So far as I can tell, *most* people didn't think he had a tiny chance of winning a first term. I know a lot of people who were floored that he won, it was quite unexpected. Sure, that might be a bit of echo chamber because the pacific northwet has a habit of only listening to its own hype, and we were pretty solidly blue on the left coast.

I'm quite concerned that if the democratic party and its supporters don't change tactics substantially in the next couple of years, there may be a non-negligible likelihood of Trump being re-elected. And that scares the poop out of me.

Personally, I think it's worthwhile to look critically and objectively at the tactics being employed, and seriously evaluate their effectiveness and potential consequences.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:18 PM   #2309
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Yeah, the Trump presidency is more like going into a used car lot looking for a nice sensible daily driver and somehow winding up walking out the proud owner of a microwave oven...
lol, that is a very apt description
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:20 PM   #2310
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I'm very, very open to suggestions. I do donate money, but war chest wasn't the problem last time.
Money was not the problem, superdelegates were. This election was primed for two charismatic outsiders promising change, not one charismatic outsider versus someone with terrible image issues and so deeply rooted in the establishment that her ass grooves were already worn into chairs in the White House. Without the superdelegates, Bernie would probably have won. And then Bernie would not have lost the Rust Belt.

Having a thumb to put on the scale to make sure establishment candidates get nominated is just a bad idea. It was bad for Humphrey, it was bad for Clinton. If your candidate cannot galvanize their own faction without internal support, they cannot galvanize the nation.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:37 PM   #2311
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Again and again, people who voted for Trump said they did so because they wanted change. They don't trust the political establishment which they think no longer truly represents the interests of working people and the middle class. They didn't like Hillary because she was "establishment."

Few people seem to mention liberal vs. conservative. And you could probably make a very good argument that Trump really isn't a conservative. Surveys have shown those were the two key ingredients Trump voters usually cited, Trump wasn't establishment and Clinton was. The fact Trump was running as a Republican and Clinton is a Democrat was way down on the list.

An acquaintance of mine, who voted for Trump, said he used his vote as a kind of weapon to FORCE mainstream politicians in the future to start putting the interests of the average person first, whether it's trade policy or tax cuts. Mind you, he doesn't expect Trump to deliver -- in fact he expects Trump to be a terrible president -- but he does expect career politicians have gotten the message.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:41 PM   #2312
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Again and again, people who voted for Trump said they did so because they wanted change. They don't trust the political establishment which they think no longer truly represents the interests of working people and the middle class. They didn't like Hillary because she was "establishment."

Few people seem to mention liberal vs. conservative. And you could probably make a very good argument that Trump really isn't a conservative. Surveys have shown those were the two key ingredients Trump voters usually cited, Trump wasn't establishment and Clinton was. The fact Trump was running as a Republican and Clinton is a Democrat was way down on the list.

An acquaintance of mine, who voted for Trump, said he used his vote as a kind of weapon to FORCE mainstream politicians in the future to start putting the interests of the average person first, whether it's trade policy or tax cuts. Mind you, he doesn't expect Trump to deliver -- in fact he expects Trump to be a terrible president -- but he does expect career politicians have gotten the message.
THIS. A great many Trump voters held their noses as they voted for Trump.,and don't have much loyalty to him. Oh, you have the hardcore supporters but I am not sure there as many of them as people think.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:42 PM   #2313
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And now Roy Blunt is calling for a thorough investigation.

I agree. Let's do it.
You gotta wonder: how much time and effort will congress muster to investigate this compared with the "Benghazi investigation"?
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:44 PM   #2314
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
And yet his silly bag of tricks has gotten him into the Oval Office. I guess used car salesmen are all the rage now.
I've gotten some very decent used cars, and I think the UCS brotherhood, cabal, syndicate or whatever should protest such demeaning comparisons.
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Old 14th February 2017, 02:46 PM   #2315
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I think there's a limit to it's effectiveness though. I mean, didn't democrat supporters engage in a lot of that through this election cycle? It didn't work. At some point, mockery and ridicule stops being effective and will turn people off. Especially if it's being met with bluster and ridicule in response (which pretty much describes Trump to a tee). At that point it all becomes a bunch of name calling that people start to tune out.

I really think different tactics are needed for this.
Smart, sharp humor that contrasts against forehead-vein-popping outrage is more what I'd go for. That's different than 'name calling' and why I referenced SNL.
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Old 14th February 2017, 03:06 PM   #2316
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Senate Intel Chair Richard Burr confirms to reporters that investigation into Russia election meddling extends to Trump Transition.
We need to know how deep do Team Trump's Kremlin ties actually go?
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Old 14th February 2017, 03:26 PM   #2317
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The best thing about the Flynn fiasco is that it will inevitably make it harder for Trump to give Putin what he wants, starting with lifting Obama's sanctions.
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Old 14th February 2017, 03:29 PM   #2318
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I think there's a limit to it's effectiveness though. I mean, didn't democrat supporters engage in a lot of that through this election cycle? It didn't work. At some point, mockery and ridicule stops being effective and will turn people off. Especially if it's being met with bluster and ridicule in response (which pretty much describes Trump to a tee). At that point it all becomes a bunch of name calling that people start to tune out.

I really think different tactics are needed for this.
To be fair, this was pretty much our first go-around at electing a complete and utter moron. We're new to this. We thought unfiltered truth would win out.
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Old 14th February 2017, 03:31 PM   #2319
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Interesting to see the VP positioning himself to appear out of the loop.
Sources tell NBC News that Pence was only told of the DOJ warning about Flynn late on Feb. 9th, 11 days after the White House and Trump knew
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Old 14th February 2017, 03:55 PM   #2320
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I can't stand Pence, but I don't blame him for trying to distance himself from the trainwreck that the Trump Whitehouse is becoming.
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