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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 14th February 2017, 08:13 PM   #2361
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
How does it stack up against sneaking across the border to find work, and having kids when you get to the U.S.?
Making hard decisions about how to survive in a harsh world is pretty much the exact opposite of using a worldwide media platform to help an already filthy rich person in your boss's family make a few extra bucks.

These decisions exist at entirely different ends of the spectrum of life. I can't imagine a less fitting comparison.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 14th February 2017 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 14th February 2017, 08:15 PM   #2362
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Then again Trump has managed to lower the level of prestige associated with that office to the degree that one shouldn't be surprised by gross incompetence by those working on their behalf.
I'm actually surprised that none of them have given a press conference while babbling drunkenly, covered in their own vomit and/or feces. But it's only February.
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Old 14th February 2017, 08:36 PM   #2363
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
As much as I'm no fan of Conway or the eldritch abomination she serves, if something similar happened with an administration I respected I'd probably favor a stern written warning and some mandatory ethics counseling if it was the first time she'd done it.
Step one is to recognise and declare wrongdoing.
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Old 14th February 2017, 09:46 PM   #2364
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
The timeline is curious:
Dec 29 - Obama administration announces sanctions against Russia for election interference
Dec 29 - Russia vows countermeasures
Dec 29 - Flynn discusses sanctions with Kislyak
Dec 30 - Russia backs off retaliation
Dec 30 - Trump makes that tweet
That kind of timeline is the kind of thing prosecutors usually consider "circumstantial evidence." Enough to justify warrants and subpoenas, anyway. Let's be honest. The suspicion is, Trump sent word through Flynn that once Obama was out and Trump was in the sanctions would disappear. In which case, Putin agrees to sit tight and not make any problems.

In fact, the reports of ongoing contacts between Russian officials and Trump campaign people last summer, the hacking of DNC email, the timing of some of the releases --remember the Debbie Wasserman Schultz flap, emails released through Wiki Leaks on the eve of the Democratic Convention -- suggest an ongoing relationship between Trump and the Putin regime.

Is that pretty much what happened? CNN is reporting FBI and law enforcement sources say intercepts have revealed Russian officials talking among themselves, saying they have "special access" to the Trump administration.

Will we ever really know? It sounds pretty conspiratorial but there is smoke. And I remember, when word first filtered out, that Russian hackers might be in involved in the DNC leaks, some reacted with outrage and demanded the thread be sent to the CT Forum.

You don't hear that much anymore.
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Old 14th February 2017, 09:52 PM   #2365
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With all this continued Russian hanky panky, Trump and Pence might as well resign. But then we get Paul Ryan?
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Old 14th February 2017, 09:55 PM   #2366
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I agree.

But did Conway show any sort of pattern of behavior regarding the promotion of goods prior to this? If not, I give her a bye. A dumb mistake and we all make them from time to time.

Plenty patterns of behavior in other regards to go after.

I think there's a "Principle of Charity" that I'd apply here. If she does it again, not so much.
Maybe for the average shlub. But she has been a high-level player in Washington politics for decades. And she's a lawyer. She knows what the rules are, just as she knows the difference between facts and "alternative facts." She does this stuff to suck up to Trump and stick her thumb in everybody else's eyes. And throughout the campaign she was quick to turn every question about anything into a sneer about Clinton's emails. She doesn't deserve any breaks. If Trump fires her, she's getting off too easy.

Last edited by Bob001; 14th February 2017 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:04 PM   #2367
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
With all this continued Russian hanky panky, Trump and Pence might as well resign. But then we get Paul Ryan?
No way. Pence was in Congress a long time and he has a lot of friends throughout the Republican party. Gens. Mathis and Kelly and Rex Tillerson are tough, independent guys with their own followings. I suspect down the road, if he waits for the right moment, Pence could invoke the 25th amendment and the Congress would support him.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:15 PM   #2368
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
With all this continued Russian hanky panky, Trump and Pence might as well resign. But then we get Paul Ryan?
When the election cheating means we should get Clinton. But the GOP control of Congress all but assures we won't get the fair result of this election.

Hopefully we will get enough pissed off citizens they throw the GOP out of both houses of Congress.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:15 PM   #2369
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
With all this continued Russian hanky panky, Trump and Pence might as well resign. But then we get Paul Ryan?
We'll deal with that when it happens. And yeah, Ryan (or Pence) would both be bad presidents, in my opinion.

Trump's administration is much worse than either of those would be. First priority is to get him out.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:28 PM   #2370
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I'm pretty much at the point of special elections or bust.
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:52 PM   #2371
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Pence is keeping a very low profile. Counting his days till he becomes president?
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Old 14th February 2017, 10:54 PM   #2372
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Pence is keeping a very low profile. Counting his days till he becomes president?
Maybe, but any scandal will drag him down, too.

He's dumb enough to go for it, though.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:32 PM   #2373
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What is ironic is that this "Trump is invincible" attitude some here have does nothing but help Trump.
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Maybe, but any scandal will drag him down, too.

He's dumb enough to go for it, though.
In the case of impeachment, though, he gets the job. Period. His aloofness from Trump's shenanigans might help him. The Ryan (and his ilk) fans would support him all the way (Ryan will probably be named veep in exchange for pulling the rug out from under Donald in my fantasy version).

The only hope to keep Pence from consolidating any power is to impeach late - e.g. fall of 2019. Give him no time to build a constituency. He stays aloof from Trump's posse that long he'll develop a reputation... but will it be bad or good. There are a lot of folk who think that you owe loyalty to the team and party.

I'd love to be running against Pence in 2020. I think he's readily beatable.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:37 PM   #2374
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm actually surprised that none of them have given a press conference while babbling drunkenly, covered in their own vomit and/or feces. But it's only February.
I never would have expected to have to admonish TM for being narrow minded.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:39 PM   #2375
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Press Conference scheduled for 3pm where Vladimir Putin will formally announce Michael Flynn's replacement.
Now that's funny.
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Old 14th February 2017, 11:47 PM   #2376
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Yep. He doesn't know how to shake hands.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2...s-erin-pkg.cnn
The segment where Abe rolls his eyes is absolutely priceless. That should go down in the annals as one of the best 5 seconds of video ever shot.
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Old 15th February 2017, 12:00 AM   #2377
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
The segment where Abe rolls his eyes is absolutely priceless. That should go down in the annals as one of the best 5 seconds of video ever shot.
Especially given Japanese culture. You can basically multiply the emotional weight x10.
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Old 15th February 2017, 12:16 AM   #2378
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And Trump is showing himself to be more incompetent every day. A lot of the swing voters who voted for Trump all already having "Buyer's Regret".
Agreed but I'm not sure it's buyer's regret. I suspect a lot of the Trump vote was not a vote for Trump but a vote for "not HRC". IOW, they didn't buy Trump, they rejected HRC.

If that is correct, then there's little loyalty and patience for Trump to bank on. That would mean, in turn, that he has little, if any, popular support to push his agenda. For example, "repeal and replace" is already a distant memory because Trump (or the whole GOP, for that matter) can't come up with anything for the "replace" part. As the Trump Administration stumbles from one **** up to the next, their ability to move policy through Congress fades in equal measure.

I wonder if the Trump Administration might just bog down in its own incompetence to the point that nothing good or bad happens; that we just bumble along until the next election. Of course, unforeseen events around the world can upset that apple cart in just a few hours time.
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Old 15th February 2017, 12:24 AM   #2379
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Agreed but I'm not sure it's buyer's regret. I suspect a lot of the Trump vote was not a vote for Trump but a vote for "not HRC". IOW, they didn't buy Trump, they rejected HRC....
And the ignorance of that rationale is now slamming down on the country like a sledge hammer.
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Old 15th February 2017, 12:25 AM   #2380
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
... the pacific northwet...
Already a favorite for Typo of the Year.
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Old 15th February 2017, 12:36 AM   #2381
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I can't stand Pence, but I don't blame him for trying to distance himself from the trainwreck that the Trump Whitehouse is becoming.
I can't either but here's where I get left in limbo. Was Pence an idiot for hitching his wagon to the Trump train, to be left forever with that stain? Or was he a brilliant strategist who saw how Trump was utterly incompetent to serve as prez and that the VP would eventually have to step up?

We'll never know, no matter how the cookie crumbles.
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Old 15th February 2017, 12:39 AM   #2382
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
It did seem like an off-the-cuff, almost joking remark.

In poor taste, perhaps, but not the end of the world.

If you ask me, that is.
Agreed. It was dumb to say but tar and pitchforks are more than a bit of overkill.
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Old 15th February 2017, 12:46 AM   #2383
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
How does it stack up against sneaking across the border to find work, and having kids when you get to the U.S.?
You've heard the saying about something "coming out of left field". That comes out of the bleachers beyond left field.

What in the hell does that have to do with the ongoing discussion?
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Old 15th February 2017, 01:05 AM   #2384
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Step one is to recognise and declare wrongdoing.
Agreed. Normally that would go without saying, but not now.
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Old 15th February 2017, 01:40 AM   #2385
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Next time Abe-san should just bow.
Trump would definitely go for that:

http://www.evancarmichael.com/librar...Handshake.html
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Old 15th February 2017, 01:53 AM   #2386
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The Trump administration is being tested by China, North Korea and Russia. The strongest response so far has been:

"not cool, guys".
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Old 15th February 2017, 02:58 AM   #2387
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Again and again, people who voted for Trump said they did so because they wanted change. They don't trust the political establishment which they think no longer truly represents the interests of working people and the middle class. They didn't like Hillary because she was "establishment."

Few people seem to mention liberal vs. conservative. And you could probably make a very good argument that Trump really isn't a conservative. Surveys have shown those were the two key ingredients Trump voters usually cited, Trump wasn't establishment and Clinton was. The fact Trump was running as a Republican and Clinton is a Democrat was way down on the list.

An acquaintance of mine, who voted for Trump, said he used his vote as a kind of weapon to FORCE mainstream politicians in the future to start putting the interests of the average person first, whether it's trade policy or tax cuts. Mind you, he doesn't expect Trump to deliver -- in fact he expects Trump to be a terrible president -- but he does expect career politicians have gotten the message.
The people who thought like this deserve everything that's coming to them. Unfortunately, nobody else does.
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Old 15th February 2017, 03:51 AM   #2388
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I agree with locking up Roy Blunt!

:9
Why?

Because he's an obvious RINO.

Obviously.

Isn't that reason enough?
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:04 AM   #2389
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I despise that woman but I'm not sure such a throwaway remark qualifies as such a breach of her obligations. I'm not familiar with how strict the US rules are on this, but it's not like she did a TV ad about Ivanka.

Well, yeah. Actually, that is exactly what she did.

It may not have been a particularly long one, but that's what it was.

If she was a major sports celebrity she could get big bucks for endorsements like that.
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:11 AM   #2390
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
I agree.

But did Conway show any sort of pattern of behavior regarding the promotion of goods prior to this? If not, I give her a bye. A dumb mistake and we all make them from time to time.

Plenty patterns of behavior in other regards to go after.

I think there's a "Principle of Charity" that I'd apply here. If she does it again, not so much.

The other "patterns of behavior" are part and parcel of this.

She's gotten plenty of "Charity". It's time we quit letting her slide every time she screws up, lies, or manages to get both feet in her mouth.
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:20 AM   #2391
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
The other "patterns of behavior" are part and parcel of this.

She's gotten plenty of "Charity". It's time we quit letting her slide every time she screws up, lies, or manages to get both feet in her mouth.
Who could do a better job of defending Trump? I don't know that anyone could.
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:25 AM   #2392
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Well, yeah. Actually, that is exactly what she did.
That's not what "exactly" means, unless you're using it metaphorically, like so many people who use "literally" metaphorically, which is ridiculous.

She promoted Ivanka's product, yes. It wasn't an ad like the ads you see on TV because it wasn't pre-recorded or aired between show segments.

But you knew "exactly" what I meant.
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:28 AM   #2393
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's not what "exactly" means, unless you're using it metaphorically, like so many people who use "literally" metaphorically, which is ridiculous.

She promoted Ivanka's product, yes. It wasn't an ad like the ads you see on TV because it wasn't pre-recorded or aired between show segments.

But you knew "exactly" what I meant.

Like the bits at the end of old game shows? "This show was brought to you courtesy of TRUMP clothing. The only evening wear to buy while digging. Buy TRUMP evening wear today. "
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:40 AM   #2394
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's not what "exactly" means, unless you're using it metaphorically, like so many people who use "literally" metaphorically, which is ridiculous.

She promoted Ivanka's product, yes. It wasn't an ad like the ads you see on TV because it wasn't pre-recorded or aired between show segments.

But you knew "exactly" what I meant.
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Like the bits at the end of old game shows? "This show was brought to you courtesy of TRUMP clothing. The only evening wear to buy while digging. Buy TRUMP evening wear today. "
I tend to agree with Argumemnon, I don't think Kellyann set out to promote Ivanka's product at the start of the interview, but she saw an opportunity to tweak the "Fake Media"'s nose while at the same time getting in her boss's good graces.

Yes it was a promotional message, yes it was inappropriate (not least IMO because it was a deliberate attempt to provoke outrage) and yes she deserves criticism but a gaffe IMO rather than a scandal. Of course if it happens again.....
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:44 AM   #2395
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
You've heard the saying about something "coming out of left field". That comes out of the bleachers beyond left field.

What in the hell does that have to do with the ongoing discussion?
Well, it seems serious punishment is being called for in the new administration for that border sneaker, so how does that stack against using your office to promote personal business on a national scale? Slap on the wrist?
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Old 15th February 2017, 04:49 AM   #2396
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Making hard decisions about how to survive in a harsh world is pretty much the exact opposite of using a worldwide media platform to help an already filthy rich person in your boss's family make a few extra bucks.

These decisions exist at entirely different ends of the spectrum of life. I can't imagine a less fitting comparison.
Yet the one is to be deported post haste, bye family. The other is slapped on the wrist...

The law is the law. Deport the immigrant? Fire the spokesperson.
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Old 15th February 2017, 05:23 AM   #2397
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Kellyanne knows what she is doing, she knows what is at stake.

Quote:
I serve at the pleasure of @POTUS. His message is my message. His goals are my goals. Uninformed chatter doesn't matter.

Source: Twitter
So there is no such thing as a throwaway line - she is the voice of the President. That's not to say that I'm really sure it's such a huge big deal, but it is important. There are already well known concerns about the way this administration is failing to separate personal business interests from the act of governing. Comments like this do not help, and people at that level should know better.

As is nearly always the case, a quick apology is much better than doubling down on a poor position. You done messed up - live with it, learn, and move on.
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Old 15th February 2017, 05:59 AM   #2398
Fast Eddie B
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
As much as I'm no fan of Conway or the eldritch abomination she serves, if something similar happened with an administration I respected I'd probably favor a stern written warning and some mandatory ethics counseling if it was the first time she'd done it.
I agree with this 100%.
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Old 15th February 2017, 06:02 AM   #2399
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Like the bits at the end of old game shows? "This show was brought to you courtesy of TRUMP clothing. The only evening wear to buy while digging. Buy TRUMP evening wear today. "
Exactly. Those weren't TV ads, but they were advertisement.
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Old 15th February 2017, 06:03 AM   #2400
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Kellyanne knows what she is doing, she knows what is at stake.

(snip quote)

So there is no such thing as a throwaway line
What your business card says doesn't necessarily reflect reality.
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