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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 16th February 2017, 01:03 PM   #2561
dudalb
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I think we are coming to a major disagreement . I despise Trump,but I don't buy the All Republicans are Stupid of Evil routine I am seeing here.
A great many Republians voted for Trump holding their nose. I think the idea of President Pence will start to sound pretty good to them. I don't like Pence much,but at least he is mentally stable....
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:03 PM   #2562
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Won't work. No matter how bad, the true believers will still believe.
Hopefully they're not numerous enough to matter.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:04 PM   #2563
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I don't mind some of the quips and the less than formal way he speaks.
There were actually a few moments (very few) where I saw the appeal of what his followers might see. Most of the rest just frightened me.

For not being anti-Semitic, he sure did a pre-emptive strike on the Jewish guy who asked a "bad" question. Oh, and to the woman who works for the Congressional Black Caucus (but actually doesn't).

I do have to admit I thought she was referring to the Canadian Broadcasting Company but that's because I watch a lot of PBS and half the show are underwritten by a grant from them.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:04 PM   #2564
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I think Trump forgot to take his pills this morning.
He kind of reminds me of a Brian Regan comedy routine

Quote:
“Brian, how do you make a word a plural?”
“You put a ‘s’…put a ‘s’ at the end of it.”
“When?”
“On weekends and holidays.”
“No, Brian. Let me show you.” So she asked this kid who knew everything.
Irwin. “Irwin, what’s the plural for ox?”
“Ox. Oxen. The farmer used his oxen.”
“Brian?”
“What?”
“Brian, what’s the plural for box?”
“Boxen. I bought 2 boxen of doughnuts.”
“No, Brian, no. Let’s try another one. Irwin, what’s the plural for goose?”
“Geese. I saw a flock of geese.”
“Brian?”
[Exasperated laughing]“Wha-a-at?”
“What’s the plural for moose?”
“Moosen! I saw a flock of MOOSEN! There were many of ‘em. Many much moosen.
Out in the woods…in the wood-es…in the woodsen. The meese want the food in the
woodesen…food is the eatenesen…the meese want the food in the woodesenes…food
in the woodesenes.”
“Brian. Brian! You’re an imbecile.”
“Imbecilen!”
“What? Are you speaking German, Brian?”
“German… Germaine… Germaine… Jackson… Jackson 5… Tito!”
“Brian, what the hell are you talking about?”
“I don’t know. I don’t know, really.”
I'm waiting for Trump to say something about "many much moosen"
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:05 PM   #2565
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I thought she said CDC, which made no sense to me at all!
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:07 PM   #2566
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
This is why I despise conspiracy kooks, no matter what side of the political spectrum they inhabit.
I get it about the Breitbart (pro-Trump) and Democracy Now (anti-war machine) articles. But what do you make of the Salon op-ed?
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:13 PM   #2567
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
If we are talking about the press conference that was just on, I must agree. That was damn tough to watch. I could have done a better job - almost anyone here could have.

I don't mind some of the quips and the less than formal way he speaks. But gawdamn get to the point and use complete sentences.
Do you not understand the nature of 'deflect'?


Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I am more concerned with policies than I am his behavior and speaking ability though, and I like some of what he's trying to do. ...
Would that be the pie in the sky lies, or the bait and switch accomplishments like strengthening his 'POTUS can't have conflict of interest' kleptocracy?
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:14 PM   #2568
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I get it about the Breitbart (pro-Trump) and Democracy Now (anti-war machine) articles. But what do you make of the Salon op-ed?
It's an op-ed written by an Irish writer living in Budapest. Not sure what to make of it.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:19 PM   #2569
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think we are coming to a major disagreement . I despise Trump,but I don't buy the All Republicans are Stupid of Evil routine I am seeing here.
A great many Republians voted for Trump holding their nose. I think the idea of President Pence will start to sound pretty good to them. I don't like Pence much,but at least he is mentally stable....
I agree. Pence would not be a good president, in my opinion, but he should be somewhat stable.

I expected Toupee Fiasco to come unglued, but...not quite this quickly.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:19 PM   #2570
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*Looks at the latest press conference*

Wouldn't it be nice if for at least only one day the SCROTUS said or did something that would -not- make the statement "I voted for him for being the lesser evil" look more absurd and completely full of cognitive dissonance than the day before? Just one day?
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:25 PM   #2571
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Good news! Trump is not a narcissist, according to the psychiatrist who wrote the diagnostic criteria!

From http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...easant-n721766:

Quote:
"He may be a world-class narcissist, but this doesn't make him mentally ill, because he does not suffer from the distress and impairment required to diagnose mental disorder," Frances wrote.

A personality disorder must lead to "clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning," the DSM IV says.

"Mr. Trump causes severe distress rather than experiencing it and has been richly rewarded, rather than punished, for his grandiosity, self-absorption and lack of empathy," Frances wrote.

"It is a stigmatizing insult to the mentally ill (who are mostly well behaved and well meaning) to be lumped with Mr. Trump (who is neither)." ...

"Psychiatric name-calling is a misguided way of countering Mr. Trump's attack on democracy. He can, and should, be appropriately denounced for his ignorance, incompetence, impulsivity and pursuit of dictatorial powers," he wrote.

"His psychological motivations are too obvious to be interesting, and analyzing them will not halt his headlong power grab. The antidote to a dystopic Trumpean dark age is political, not psychological."
So, what a relief. Not mentally ill, just a horrible, horrible person.

ETA: I should have linked to the original letter to the New York Times.

Last edited by phiwum; 16th February 2017 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:29 PM   #2572
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Question is how many of those who voted for him are part of his hardcore base. I think it is smaller then you think.
I think his base is very much underestimated, demonstrated by the fact that he's the frikken POTUS, much to the chagrin of those who underestimated his strategic courting of that base.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:30 PM   #2573
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Good news! Trump is not a narcissist, according to the psychiatrist who wrote the diagnostic criteria!

From http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...easant-n721766:



So, what a relief. Not mentally ill, just a horrible, horrible person.

ETA: I should have linked to the original letter to the New York Times.
"I'm not crazy, my mother had me tested." - Sheldon Cooper
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:31 PM   #2574
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That was one of the most unhinged, thin-skinned, dishonest, rambling, disjointed presentations I've ever seen.

Where can one place a bet that he won't finish his term?
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:35 PM   #2575
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
That was one of the most unhinged, thin-skinned, dishonest, rambling, disjointed presentations I've ever seen.

Where can one place a bet that he won't finish his term?
British bookies had it at 11/10 yesterday. Any one of them will take your bet.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:36 PM   #2576
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
That was one of the most unhinged, thin-skinned, dishonest, rambling, disjointed presentations I've ever seen.

Where can one place a bet that he won't finish his term?
http://www.ibtimes.com/will-trump-be...50-bet-2492539
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:39 PM   #2577
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I think his base is very much underestimated, demonstrated by the fact that he's the frikken POTUS, much to the chagrin of those who underestimated his strategic courting of that base.
Yes, Trump surprised us all;but I think his appeal is being overestimated;a lot of those who voted him will turn on him when the jobs he promised people in the Rust Belt states don't materialize.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:39 PM   #2578
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Question is how many of those who voted for him are part of his hardcore base. I think it is smaller then you think.
Include me in that. I barely voted for him. If it were anyone but Hillary or Sanders I would not have.

Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Yeah lower the bar for success enough and even an incompetent fool like Trump could even become a mediocre president and not an abysmal failure.

It's really jarring to go from an above-average president like Obama and a comical failure such as Trump.
Above average, Obama? Okay, that's your opinion, not mine. But I am not lowering the bar on what he actually does, policy-wise. I am trying to cut him some slack on his presentation but it is getting more difficult to do.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Do you not understand the nature of 'deflect'?
I do, what about it?

Quote:
Would that be the pie in the sky lies, or the bait and switch accomplishments like strengthening his 'POTUS can't have conflict of interest' kleptocracy?
Can you ask a question without answering it for me? Can you have a discussion without being so nasty?

Last edited by mgidm86; 16th February 2017 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:44 PM   #2579
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post

Where can one place a bet that he won't finish his term?
I could not find anyone to take my bet that he would not last a year.
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:58 PM   #2580
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TO criticize the MSM is one thing.....there is a lot to be criticized. But to go into a rant like that one is something completely different.
Problem is that Trump considers anything other then blind praise and adulation to be "unfair coverage".
He might have made his hardline supporters happy, but a lot of people..including quite a few who voted for him..are going WTF?
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Old 16th February 2017, 01:59 PM   #2581
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BTW I think this was a calculated tactic to take the attention away from the Russian Connective scandle.
It won't work.
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Old 16th February 2017, 02:00 PM   #2582
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Good news! Trump is not a narcissist, according to the psychiatrist who wrote the diagnostic criteria!

From http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...easant-n721766:

So, what a relief. Not mentally ill, just a horrible, horrible person.

ETA: I should have linked to the original letter to the New York Times.
It's unfortunate when such a credentialed psychiatrist weighs in with such an unsupportable position.

Here's what Wiki says about Dr Frances that I believe is relevant:
Quote:
Frances chaired the task force that produced the fourth revision of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV) and became critical of the current version, DSM-5. He warned that the expanding boundary of psychiatry is causing a diagnostic inflation that is swallowing up normality and that the over-treatment of the "worried well" is distracting attention from the core mission of treating the more severely ill. In 2013, Frances said that "psychiatric diagnosis still relies exclusively on fallible subjective judgments rather than objective biological tests".[1][2]
Needless to say, that is not an opinion shared universally by psychiatrists. I would say that Trump's inability to stop himself says a lot about how one should define a disorder. If someone with OCD gets by with the diagnosis without complete failure to cope, does that mean they don't have OCD? And where does that leave the persons with serious depression who are otherwise going to work and managing to eat and bathe? Are they not really depressed, just sad?
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Old 16th February 2017, 02:25 PM   #2583
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think we are coming to a major disagreement . I despise Trump,but I don't buy the All Republicans are Stupid of Evil routine I am seeing here.
Of course they aren't. Some, I assume, are good people.

Sorry, that just slipped out. Of course not all Repubs are stupid or evil. My natural inclination is to be a liberal Republican but the party has made that impossible. Many others are like me but vote for the party out of habit.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A great many Republians voted for Trump holding their nose. I think the idea of President Pence will start to sound pretty good to them. I don't like Pence much,but at least he is mentally stable....
Absolutely correct.
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Old 16th February 2017, 02:31 PM   #2584
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And I would bet a large amount of money that even the Republicans in Congress behind closed doors are rolling their eyes and LOLing at the "My Administration is Running Like A Fine Tuned Machine" line.
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Old 16th February 2017, 02:34 PM   #2585
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yes, Trump surprised us all;but I think his appeal is being overestimated;a lot of those who voted him will turn on him when the jobs he promised people in the Rust Belt states don't materialize.
Keep telling yourself that. Remember, this guy lies repeatedly, gets caught at it (mocking the disabled reporter as one example) yet doubles down and lies again. He mocked and degraded women --pussy grabbing/body shaming/"she wouldn't be my first choice" -- yet women voted for him in large numbers. When he can't deliver the promised jobs, he'll find a scapegoat. If his opponents continue to underestimate his appeal to a large segment of the voting public, they are going to be on the losing end again. The democrats damn well better be developing effective candidates and strategies as we speak or they'll be whining again in two and four years.

Trump is stumping right now; his opponents should be following his example.
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Old 16th February 2017, 02:48 PM   #2586
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And I would bet a large amount of money that even the Republicans in Congress behind closed doors are rolling their eyes and LOLing at the "My Administration is Running Like A Fine Tuned Machine" line.
I'll bet even Spicer won't be able to repeat that with a straight face.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:15 PM   #2587
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One of the worst aspects of Trump's stream of consciousness answer about something like the 'two-state solution' is that it is a question that competent president and staff would have known was going to be asked and had a ready answer for.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:17 PM   #2588
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yes, Trump surprised us all;but I think his appeal is being overestimated;a lot of those who voted him will turn on him when the jobs he promised people in the Rust Belt states don't materialize.
That's one of the things I could actually see hurting him. Of course if he can convince Congress to go big on military procurement and gets some of those jobs sent to Rust Belt communities then it'll be a different story.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:21 PM   #2589
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
That was one of the most unhinged, thin-skinned, dishonest, rambling, disjointed presentations I've ever seen.

Where can one place a bet that he won't finish his term?
You ain't seen nothin yet. That was just a warmup.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:38 PM   #2590
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Trump apparently had a near meltdown in his news conference this morning:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...ference-235093
God, I am reminded of Captain Queeg again:This time when he melts down when on the stand during the Court Martial. Only thing missing is Trump clicking steel ball bearings in his fingers.....
I only read the transcript. I did not see video so I can't speak to body language, intonation, etc. Given his typical fourth-grade language with endless repeats and incessant repetition of "great", "fantastic" etc. I thought he did a good job of supporting what he's done. I cannot say the press did a good job of holding his feet to the fire.

Finally, the commentary by WaPo was just disgustingly milk toasty. The reporter acted as if Trump's statements were to be accepted at face value when nothing could be further from the truth. Treating Trump's off-the-cuff remarks as credible is part of the process of normalizing Trump. He's not normal and the press should act on that fact.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:39 PM   #2591
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
In today's ramble labeled a press conference Trump said Flynn did nothing wrong, the leaks were wrong. He then went on to say the issue was Flynn lying to Trump Pence.

Wonder how long it will take the press to ask the obvious? Did Trump think Pence was lying to the press then?

Trump also said he would have directed Flynn to talk to the Russians, "I didn't but I would have." Talk about insulating oneself from wrongdoing while pretending nothing wrong was done.
Fixed.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:40 PM   #2592
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Good news! Trump is not a narcissist, according to the psychiatrist who wrote the diagnostic criteria!

From http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health...easant-n721766:



So, what a relief. Not mentally ill, just a horrible, horrible person.

ETA: I should have linked to the original letter to the New York Times.

I saw that earlier, and while I agree that the diagnosis isn't very useful in a 'what we can do about him' sort of way, I'm curious about the reasons he gives for Trump not having NPD. 'Doesn't experience distress but causes it,' isn't actually at odds with NPD. 'Is rewarded for it' doesn't seem to allow confounding factors such as, 'he really shouldn't be'.

I've seen several friends in the mental healthcare community comment along the lines of, 'good impulse, wrong conclusion', including one whose mother has NPD and is a mental healthcare professional. Harping on the NPD aspect of Trump isn't useful for combating Trump, it certainly doesn't help the view of people needing help with mental health issues, but neither of those things means the diagnosis is actually wrong.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:40 PM   #2593
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
That's one of the things I could actually see hurting him. Of course if he can convince Congress to go big on military procurement and gets some of those jobs sent to Rust Belt communities then it'll be a different story.
You can't just send jobs to Rust Belt communities. Most of the major military contractors are in the Sun Belt for obvious reasons:the Good weather for testing.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:43 PM   #2594
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I only read the transcript. I did not see video so I can't speak to body language, intonation, etc. Given his typical fourth-grade language with endless repeats and incessant repetition of "great", "fantastic" etc. I thought he did a good job of supporting what he's done. I cannot say the press did a good job of holding his feet to the fire.

Finally, the commentary by WaPo was just disgustingly milk toasty. The reporter acted as if Trump's statements were to be accepted at face value when nothing could be further from the truth. Treating Trump's off-the-cuff remarks as credible is part of the process of normalizing Trump. He's not normal and the press should act on that fact.
You have to see the news conference to get how over the top and loopyTrump really sounded. And, yes, that is very important.
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Old 16th February 2017, 03:58 PM   #2595
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Smart, sharp humor that contrasts against forehead-vein-popping outrage is more what I'd go for. That's different than 'name calling' and why I referenced SNL.
At the end of the day, I'm not certain that the audience makes all that much distinction between "sophisticated" outrage-fueled mockery & ridicule and "unsophisticated" outrage-fueled mockery & ridicule.
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Old 16th February 2017, 04:09 PM   #2596
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And I would bet a large amount of money that even the Republicans in Congress behind closed doors are rolling their eyes and LOLing at the "My Administration is Running Like A Fine Tuned Machine" line.
Fine tuned machine...
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Old 16th February 2017, 04:26 PM   #2597
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And I would bet a large amount of money that even the Republicans in Congress behind closed doors are rolling their eyes and LOLing at the "My Administration is Running Like A Fine Tuned Machine" line.
I thought for sure he was going to say "My administration is running like a fine-toothed comb."
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Old 16th February 2017, 04:36 PM   #2598
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Obama trash talked the media as well. Many times he mentioned specific personalities by name, Hannity and others.
Criticising named individuals - they can respond, and the crticism can be evaluated against the evidence - is entirely different to what Trump is doing. Trump is wallpapering the media as a whole with accusations of mendacity and bias. The only purpose can be to de-legitimise the media in the minds of his followers - and in his own, of course : objective reality is highly discomfiting for people like Trump. They find the very concept discomfiting, in fact.
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Old 16th February 2017, 04:53 PM   #2599
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
That's one of the things I could actually see hurting him. Of course if he can convince Congress to go big on military procurement and gets some of those jobs sent to Rust Belt communities then it'll be a different story.
If the deficit is no object - and the debt ceiling has already been raised without a murmur - then cut-tax-and-spend on infrastructure and military could generate a four-year boom. Stock-markets seem to be expecting something of the sort.
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Old 16th February 2017, 05:06 PM   #2600
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
If the deficit is no object - and the debt ceiling has already been raised without a murmur - then cut-tax-and-spend on infrastructure and military could generate a four-year boom. Stock-markets seem to be expecting something of the sort.
I think you overestimate the ability of US Government to create a boom. Not to mention that stupid trade policies could kill the economy.
And Stock Markets seem to be very concerned a bout what Trump might do .
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